Avoiding the Mark of the beast

Straightshot said:

"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Do you want to know what happens when the eagles are gathered?"


This passage of scripture has nothing to do with the Lord's early call for His true ecclesia .... and everything to do with the nation of Israel in the tribulation

Those found believing will be spared to enter the Lord's coming millennial kingdom .... those found in unbelief will be take in the judgment

So your example is moot .... Matthew 24 is all about about Israel during the coming 70th week decreed for the nation

.... nothing to do with today's "church"

The other stuff you say is strange indeed and replacement theology contrived by certain divides of the professing "church" is totally bogus and self serving

Here is what the Lord has said about those who claim to be "Jews" and are not [Revelation 2:9; 3:9]

Watch what you are kicking against for your own good [Genesis 12:1-3] ..... nothing has changed

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This has absolutely nothing to do with the church nor the "rapture". I knew you would try to split hairs over who and what comprise the church. This is complete nonsense. Stop listening to Missler and all those false teachers. Even though some of what they teach might have some truth in it you must study the bible for yourself, not just the out of context verses these guys use to deceive if possible the very elect.
I can take you through the whole false teaching with complete biblical contexts that are not partial verses and a perversion of Daniel's 70 week prophecy which ended just after Jesus died, NOT somewhere in the future. In fact Missler begins the 70 weeks in the right place, but he takes the rest way out of context. The Messiah being "cut off" represents Jesus death, not some obscure event everyone is guessing about. The timing of the 70 weeks of Daniel is the most accurate time prophecy in the bible, to fall for the perversion of it proves a great lack of study.

DeerGlow said:

This me super paranoid. Is it physical? Is it not? If the devil tricks me, even if it's only for a second to think evilly, am I doomed? How can I be sure I don't have the mark?

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If that is really so, then you need to avoid the Catholic Church!

Straightshot said in post 280:

Matthew 24 is strictly about national Israel in the tribulation ..... and so is Luke 21:20-36

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Regarding "Judaea" (Luke 21:21, Matthew 24:16), note that there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) today. And they contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Luke 21:21 and Matthew 24:16 refer to those in the church, whether Gentiles or Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up, and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church (not in hiding) will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16, of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution), would apply to believers around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different, protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they should not carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Straightshot said in post 280:

Matthew 24 is strictly about national Israel in the tribulation ..... and so is Luke 21:20-36

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Regarding Luke 21:36, note that it does not require a pre-tribulation rapture. For some in the church will escape all of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 by dying before it begins (Isaiah 57:1). And others in the church will escape all of it by being physically protected on the earth during it (Revelation 12:14-16, Psalms 91). Those who will escape the tribulation by dying before it begins will stand before the Lord in heaven (cf. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape the tribulation by being miraculously protected on the earth during it will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which will not occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Straightshot said in post 280:

Matthew 24 is strictly about national Israel in the tribulation ..... and so is Luke 21:20-36

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Note that Luke 21:28 shows that the rapture of the church will be at the 2nd coming. For the rapture will be the time of obedient Christians' ultimate redemption (Romans 8:23-25; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18).

Luke 21:27 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus as Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, and Zechariah 14:3-21, which will not occur until "immediately after" (Matthew 24:29) the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, including after a future pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the tribulation, right before Jesus returns to save the Jews in Jerusalem, and to destroy the world's armies which came against Jerusalem, and to set up the capital of the millennial aspect of his kingdom in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14, Micah 4:1-4).

So Luke 21:28 refers only to the signs which will accompany Jesus' (still unfulfilled) 2nd coming (Luke 21:25-27, Matthew 24:29-30), not to the events which will happen during the preceding tribulation (Luke 21:8-24).

Straightshot said in post 280:

The NT "church" composed of a few of Israel and mostly the Gentiles of the nations is one thing

The Lord's nation of Israel is a different matter altogether

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Note that just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

Also, note that the book of James is addressing "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which is the same as addressing people in the church (James 5:14), people with faith in Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (i.e. Christians), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Christ to return (James 5:7).

Similarly, the book of Hebrews is about the church (Hebrews 2:12, Hebrews 12:23), the body of Christ (Hebrews 13:3, cf. 1 Corinthians 12:25-27).

In the time of the coming great tribulations shown in prophecy, it will not be the world having believers the way it is now. There will be renewed witness of the gospel of Christ from among chosen ones from among tribes of Israel to the world, which is with the ungodly that remain here. The witness will have those who respond joining those with the witness that are among Israel. And they will observe commandments of God, being separate from those of the world, including observance of Sabbath.

DeerGlow said:

This me super paranoid. Is it physical? Is it not? If the devil tricks me, even if it's only for a second to think evilly, am I doomed? How can I be sure I don't have the mark?

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IMO not a physical mark.

"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. Deuteronomy 11:18

"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

'Sanctify My sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'

In Rev. we are told that the mark they receive is either on their forehead or their hand.

Forehead= what you BELIEVE
Hand= What you DO

The Mark of the Beast represents a religious system that the whole world will go after and those that follow it will do so in thought an deed

BukiRob said:

IMO not a physical mark.

"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. Deuteronomy 11:18

"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

'Sanctify My sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'

In Rev. we are told that the mark they receive is either on their forehead or their hand.

Forehead= what you BELIEVE
Hand= What you DO

The Mark of the Beast represents a religious system that the whole world will go after and those that follow it will do so in thought an deed

Click to expand...

These threads get so long that people don't read past posts, but I don't mind reposting.

Who worships an idol? A 'god' of war that is the Prince of Lies, has its followers lie, murder, enslave, rape, etc? Who treats even its own women as chattel? AND was behind the slave trade - islam. mohamed, the false prophet.

the 'mark'. If you look at the original Greek text of the mark - in Greek - you will read '666' if you read it as Westerners read it. If you read it as an Arab reads it you will read 'bismillah'... or 'in the name of allah'.

Who wears the mark on their foreheads? moslems wear bands with those characters on it. They also wear it on their arm sometimes.

some more stuff: the Babylonian empire is the lion, Iran is the feet of the Bear – or ancient Persia, and the leopard is the Grecian Empire

The iron – it crushes all the kingdoms before it – some say it is the roman empire but it did not completely succeed in crushing Iran. So, it is not the Roman Empire. Look at Revelation 13:2 it tells about the beast.


The other previous empires were (not in order): Assyrian, Persian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Grecian, Roman - 5 were before John wrote his book and he lived in during the Roman Empire (6th). Then as the angel said, "one is" and that was the Ottoman Empire that John did not know about yet since it was not going to be until many centuries after John's death. The seventh Empire (Ottoman empire) will be fatally wounded and then resurrected under the reign of the Antichrist. And that is what the moslems are working for today - to revive that caliphate, that Ottoman Empire.

Walid Shoebat has a series called 'End Times' and a video about the 'Mark of the Beast'.

Walid Shoebat - Why Islam is the Antichrist 1 of 22


Here is an article too: What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Mark of the Beast and the Mark of God

ISLAM AND THE NUMBER 666
http://www.fishhouseministries.com/html/09-Europe.htm

BukiRob said:

IMO not a physical mark.

"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. Deuteronomy 11:18

"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

'Sanctify My sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'

In Rev. we are told that the mark they receive is either on their forehead or their hand.

Forehead= what you BELIEVE
Hand= What you DO

The Mark of the Beast represents a religious system that the whole world will go after and those that follow it will do so in thought an deed

Click to expand...

I agree that the Mark of the Beast is undoubtedly a Satanic religious system, but I'm wondering if it is not overlaid on an actual tinkering with human DNA of the person who receives it? There is the curious matter of Revelation 9:6, "And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them." This is in relation to the stinging tormentors of those not having the seal of God on them.

There is already an evil agenda to alter human DNA to promote longevity--who knows what else is being cooked up? What if the actual blending of human DNA and animal DNA resulted in the half animal and half humans of ancient mythology? What if that is what the evil angels were doing that caused them to be "chained up in utter darkness"? Is that what caused God to wipe out the planet with the Flood? Not only was there a horrible growth of sinfulness but the fact that giants were around suggests that there was some tinkering with human DNA, since we don't now have giant humans to which normal humans seem "like grasshoppers" (Numbers 13:33)

Scientists are today openly blending all kinds of animal DNA. Some of them are even promoting a "transhuman" agenda to blend humans with machines. I remember being struck by one scientist's observation that, in the future, a person could be, "...more machine than human..."

At least one, world-class geneticist (Dr. John Sanford--inventor of the "gene gun") believes that man is on the genetic path to extinction and with the present acceleration of the mutation rate by environmental toxins, future generations of humans--even a century from now--are in question. He says that most famed geneticists understand the problem but that few will talk about it. Sanford explains that they also know that the human genome is too complex for "gene therapy" to be very effective, with our present understanding and technology. One first sign of genetic deterioration is a falling rate of fertility (which is already happening in the developed nations--many couples are now childless because of reproductive problems). Another early sign is decreasing physical and cognitive fitness in the studied extinction-bound species (again, something that is being observed in the developed nations). It would not be a surprise that there is already some program in place to prepare for the day when the prospect of extinction looms.

Major1 said:

I now firmly believe that the "Debit CArd" system will be the MArk of the Beast.

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Ok if you know what the mark of the beast is ; then you must know who the beast is, please tell us.

staffsgt7 posted in post #286:

Why Islam is the Antichrist . . .

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Note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), while the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms no man can be God, while the Antichrist will say he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

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Even though Islam (in its current form) won't be the religion of the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, Islam could be, since the latter half of the 7th century AD, Revelation 17:10's seventh empire (the Antichrist's empire will be a different, still-future, eighth empire: Revelation 17:11). Also, because Islam falsely claims the anti-gospel Koran came through the angel Gabriel, it's one fulfillment of Galatians 1:8-9 (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).

Islam is an anti-gospel religion because, even though it affirms Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 5:17,75), it denies Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (Koran 9:30, Koran 4:171, Koran 5:72). And it denies He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins (Koran 4:157) and rose physically from the dead on the third day. In order to be saved, people have to believe the Gospel that Jesus is both the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 3:16,36; 1 John 2:23), and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

The reason why it's necessary to believe these things in order to be saved is because it was only as the human/divine Son of God that Jesus' suffering during His Passion could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46).

Jesus Christ's suffering during His Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 John 2:2), because Jesus isn't just a human, but also God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28). His soul is infinite, and so the suffering of His soul (Isaiah 53:11, KJV) was infinite in amount, even though it wasn't infinite in duration. And so His suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46). Because humans who aren't God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins, they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:46).

Every human has sinned (Romans 3:23), except Jesus (Hebrews 4:15b; 2 Corinthians 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Peter 3:18, Isaiah 53:11, KJV) an infinite amount, when elect people repent from their sins and believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice, they can have their past sins forgiven (Romans 3:25-26, Matthew 26:28), while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18).

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One way to help Muslims understand how Jesus can be God, from everlasting, is to question them about their understanding of the Muslim belief regarding the Koran. For Islam says there was no time when the Koran didn't exist in a spiritual form in heaven, that it has always coexisted with Allah as his word. So Christians can show Muslims that the Bible says before Jesus' incarnation, there was no time when he didn't exist in a spiritual form in heaven. He has always coexisted with God the Father as God the Word (John 1:1,14).

This isn't to suggest the Muslim claim regarding the Koran is true, or that the book itself is true. Indeed, (again) because Islam falsely claims the anti-gospel Koran came through the angel Gabriel, it's one fulfillment of Galatians 1:8-9 (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).

staffsgt7 said in post #286:

If you look at the original Greek text of the mark - in Greek - you will read '666' if you read it as Westerners read it. If you read it as an Arab reads it you will read 'bismillah'... or 'in the name of allah'.

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Note that John the apostle heard numbers (Revelation 7:4, Revelation 9:16), and so he could have simply heard the "number" six hundred and sixty-six in Revelation 13:18.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Bible2+ said:

One way to help Muslims understand how Jesus can be God, from everlasting, is to question them about their understanding of the Muslim belief regarding the Koran.

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This link will tell you exactly what the mark of the beast is:

Original Happy Camper said:

Ok if you know what the mark of the beast is ; then you must know who the beast is, please tell us.

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That is not the case at all. NO ONE knows who the A/C will be. He will only be known by those who are left after the Rapture. NO Christian today can know or does know and I for one have no clue.

But the "Mark of the Beast" is different. It is a system IMO. It will be a system of buying and selling and also identification with tracking abilities.

BukiRob said:

IMO not a physical mark.

"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. Deuteronomy 11:18

"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

'Sanctify My sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'

In Rev. we are told that the mark they receive is either on their forehead or their hand.

Forehead= what you BELIEVE
Hand= What you DO

The Mark of the Beast represents a religious system that the whole world will go after and those that follow it will do so in thought an deed

Click to expand...

I disagree.

Rev. 13:16...........
"Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead."

Rev. 14:9........
"And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand....".

Rev. 16:2.............
"So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image."

What other words could God have used that would have been more understandable??????

Major1 said:

I disagree.

Rev. 13:16...........
"Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead."

Rev. 14:9........
"And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand....".

Rev. 16:2.............
"So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image."

What other words could God have used that would have been more understandable??????

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You just completely missed what I quoted from the OT. You are ASSUMING that it is a physical mark.

Sabbath observance does NOT produce a PHYSICAL mark. Yet Y'Israel was to keep the Torah and BIND THEM AS FRONTLETS on their forehead and Bind them to their hands....

I am suggesting that this MAY be symbolic as it was in the OT. Forehead pertaining to that which you BELIEVE and think upon. The HAND being that WHICH YOU DO.

I do not for a SECOND think that ANYONE will have the "mark of the beast" by accident or take it without knowing what it is... hence, the reason is it likely SYMBOLIC.

Major1 said:

That is not the case at all. NO ONE knows who the A/C will be. He will only be known by those who are left after the Rapture. NO Christian today can know or does know and I for one have no clue.

But the "Mark of the Beast" is different. It is a system IMO. It will be a system of buying and selling and also identification with tracking abilities.

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I agree with you that the mark of the beast is a system how ever it has to do with worship not buying and selling.

Major1 said:

Rev. 14:9........
"And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image.....

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You only get the mark if you worship the beast and its image according to the above verse.

I disagree with your premise that no can know the identity of the beast. The God that I serve has always provided the truth about the future through prophecy. How else would we know not to worship the beast?
I do not believe in the "rapture" as you do and if I am right about it and you are wrong then it would be in your interest to understand who or what the beast is. Take a look at the historical view of prophecy and not the teachings of the Jesuit priest Ribera (futurism) from the counter reformation period.

Revelation 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Do you know what the seal of God is? If you do can you provide scripture for it.

God Bless u & your family

Original Happy Camper said:

I agree with you that the mark of the beast is a system how ever it has to do with worship not buying and selling.



You only get the mark if you worship the beast and its image according to the above verse.

I disagree with your premise that no can know the identity of the beast. The God that I serve has always provided the truth about the future through prophecy. How else would we know not to worship the beast?
I do not believe in the "rapture" as you do and if I am right about it and you are wrong then it would be in your interest to understand who or what the beast is. Take a look at the historical view of prophecy and not the teachings of the Jesuit priest Ribera (futurism) from the counter reformation period.

Revelation 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Do you know what the seal of God is? If you do can you provide scripture for it.

God Bless u & your family

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2 Thess. 2:3-10..............
"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

The A/C will not be known to the world until the Church is removed according to the Scripture above.

In the above verses, “that day” is referring to—this is Paul writing to the Thessalonians in his first epistle to the Thessalonians 5:1, he says, “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they say peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,” and so forth. So, this is the day Paul is talking about, the Day of the Lord, which I believe begins with the rapture of the church.

I can not make you or anyone else believe that but there it is and for me personally it makes perfect sense.

I believe he is talking about two things, the coming of our Lord and our gathering together unto him. The gathering is the Rapture, the coming is the second coming, and we have to distinguish between the two. At the Rapture, Christ comes for his church; at the second coming he comes for Isreal! At the Rapture, he takes his saints to heaven, the church; at the second coming he brings them with him from heaven. Zechariah 14, very clearly says that when his feet touch the Mount of Olives, that’s the second coming; at the Rapture he catches us up in the air. He doesn’t come to this earth.

As what the "Seal" of God is in Rev. 9:4.

John 6:27......
"" Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

2 Cor 1:22......
" Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."

Eph 1:13 .......
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise".

Eph 4:30..........
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

It seems to me that these verses dicate a figurative seal, not a physical seal.

We also know that Satan copies whatever God does. It is clear to ME that the mark of the BEAST will be a "physical" mark of all who take it.

For a long time now I have understood that the mark is going to be something like the "UPC" Bar Code. That kind of mark allows for buying and selling and the tracking of merchandise and PEOPLE.

I believe it will be a physical mark but it is it really worth all this arguing? We won't know until it's time so why don't we just keep an eye out and trust God?

Major1 said:

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

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Who is "he" and why didn't Paul identify him specifically by name?

jgr said:

Who is "he" and why didn't Paul identify him specifically by name?

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He did my friend.

Verse 3..............."and THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION".

John 17:12....
"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

2 Thess. 2:4.........
"who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.".

Daniel 9:24............
""And he (The A/C) will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

doctorwho29 said:

I believe it will be a physical mark but it is it really worth all this arguing? We won't know until it's time so why don't we just keep an eye out and trust God?

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I do not believe that we will know at all. IF 2 Thess. 2:3 is correct, the church will be Raptured THEN the A/C will be revealed.