Men should wear shirts at the beach

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It sounds like you are kind of projecting your views on women. Most women I know have no problem wanting to wear a shirt...and it is for personal reasons, not because we are forced to or are even worried about what other people think. We also have no problem with men swimming on the beach without a shirt. Women who object to shirtless men in other areas of society usually do so for hygiene reasons...it is "ew, gross, put a shirt on"....not "put a shirt on because I can't control my lust for your body."
Are you willing to say that women who feel visually attracted to men's chests are inferior, and should not be accommodated. On a related note, I think women should wear shirts, and cover their breasts.
So, for the sake of the man, they must wear shirts, right? Because men supposedly can't control themselves, and will lust.
Where does it say in the bible that women must cover their breasts?
There are arguments from women who want to be able to expose their breasts whenever and wherever they want, because men apparently can.
 
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Clothing those who are naked due to poverty and want, is not the same as changing another culture's dress standards.

Seeing one's culture as superior to others is the cause of significant problems in the world. (I was born under apartheid, so I have some lived insight into this). Far better to engage with others treating them honourably and as equals, and allow them to choose to adopt any changes to be like you because they want to, not because you have tried to impose it on them.
Well, those people were intellectually impoverished, and did not know to wear more clothes in order to appear honorable. As for christian culture, it is God who established christianity, and it's the best religion ever, and will always be, it's better than all the religions. The religion of Christianity is not equal to any other, but it is above all others since Christ is above all false gods.
As for this talk of imposing. I haven't done any such thing. They're free to live how they want, but will answer to God in the end. The same goes for everyone. Not once have a mandated a thing here, but many seem to think, and be offended apparently because they perceive that I have done so.
 
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blackribbon

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Actually, you seemed to be defending the idea that it's not shameful to be naked in public.


Why not clothe them? That's what Jesus would want.

It's good to clothe naked people.


Women who experience attraction to men visually are barley a minority, and their temptations should be acknowledged. If a women were to ask me to wear a shirt around her, I would wear a shirt. What is wrong with helping women who have such a problem? Women who are attracted to men visually are not the same as pedophiles. The two are completely different. You're basically shaming such women with that comparison.


You didn't read the book, did you? I was pointing out a few aspects of their culture, which truly was inferior, stemming from pagan practices.
As for baby killing in Christian culture, I know of no such thing, because the way I understand christian culture is not the same thing as western culture.

This post is about a man wearing a shirt on the beach because for some reason, you believe that women are tempted by your bare chest or that of other men. This is not other cultural practices that Christianity does attempt to change related to valuing life. There are cultures that wear plenty of clothing that sacrifice or desert babies or children. I don't have to read a specific book to understand that non-Christian societies do accept practices such as baby sacrifice.

I do live in the US and do know many of the abortions performed are on women who would consider themselves to be Christians....often because their Christian parents made the decision for them.

And how many of your Christian friends are involved in trying to save the group of Christian Chibok girls who were kidnapped in Nigeria if you are truly concerned about women and children in Africa? How about the human trafficking problem in the US? But yes, do your bit to save the world and put on a shirt at the beach.......keep up your ministry to save those that go to the beach from shirt less men.
 
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Paidiske

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As for christian culture, it is God who established christianity, and it's the best religion ever, and will always be, it's better than all the religions. The religion of Christianity is not equal to any other, but it is above all others since Christ is above all false gods.

But we are talking here about culture, not religion. Christianity does not mandate a specific modesty code; and Western culture is not the best culture ever and better than all others. Like all cultures it has strengths and weaknesses.

And what is all this talk of shame, if not an attempt to get others to behave the way you would like?
 
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How about the human trafficking problem in the US? But yes, do your bit to save the world and put on a shirt at the beach.......
You've come off as offensive, you're ignoring my points, and that's kinda frustrating... but I can agree with you on one thing. I am wasting my time here. I still think you're wrong, and I think I'm allowed to talk about lesser issues sometimes, but I personally want to work in law enforcement and help battle human trafficking. Good day.
 
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But we are talking here about culture, not religion. Christianity does not mandate a specific modesty code; and Western culture is not the best culture ever and better than all others. Like all cultures it has strengths and weaknesses.

And what is all this talk of shame, if not an attempt to get others to behave the way you would like?
nevermind, i still think i have good points, i have to let go my ego, and say bye, I'm frustrated and I feel like this discussion is getting toxic. good day.
 
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blackribbon

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Are you willing to say that women who feel visually attracted to men's chests are inferior, and should not be accommodated. On a related note, I think women should wear shirts, and cover their breasts.
So, for the sake of the man, they must wear shirts, right? Because men supposedly can't control themselves, and will lust.
Where does it say in the bible that women must cover their breasts?
There are arguments from women who want to be able to expose their breasts whenever and wherever they want, because men apparently can.

First of all, I am a woman and know a lot of women and we do talk about what we find attractive...random shirtless men is pretty much considered under the remark of "ew, gross"...and if is admired, it is more like you would admire a pretty face, not that we are sexually turned on.

And I wear a bra and a shirt because it is uncomfortable and inconvenient to go topless. Women wear shirt to appear attractive, not to protect them from a man's lust. Look around church next Sunday...most women don't wear sacks that hid their figures out of fear that men might realize that they have breasts. Most women, if given the option, would go topless. It is about personal choice, not because of their Christian beliefs.

There is a religion and a culture that does believe that any skin on a woman is a temptation to men and should never be seen outside of the home and women do dress to protect themselves from men who can't control themselves. Your beliefs seem to line up more with the teachings of Islam.
 
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blackribbon

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You've come off as offensive, you're ignoring my points, and that's kinda frustrating... but I can agree with you on one thing. I am wasting my time here. I still think you're wrong, and I think I'm allowed to talk about lesser issues sometimes, but I personally want to work in law enforcement and help battle human trafficking. Good day.

I am addressing your points. I haven't ignored any of them. If you are offended, that is on you. I don't see people lining up to agree with you. You haven't produced any verses that say it is ungodly for a Christian man to swim without a shirt and I am telling you as a woman, that topless men are not a sexual problem for women the same way a shirtless woman is for a man.

Every time you have gone off topic, I have gone with you and addressed your non-related topics. You are offended because I don't agree with you and have the nerve to disagree with you and debate this topic.

If you hope to go into law enforcement, you better get more comfortable with the human body and various states of undress.
 
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blackribbon

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I would expect that law enforcement is a judgement free profession like the medical profession...that you have to treat every person with the same respect regardless if you agree with their culture or belief system. All that matters is the law of the land...and you don't get to judge people based on your version of God's law.
 
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I would expect that law enforcement is a judgement free profession like the medical profession...that you have to treat every person with the same respect regardless if you agree with their culture or belief system. All that matters is the law of the land...and you don't get to judge people based on your version of God's law.
Yeah, that's true, and honestly I don't even care that much about this thread I made. I only made it because I felt like making a thread that was new, that no one really talked about much. An article written by some liberal activist triggered me into making an argument that women should wear tops, and in order to eliminate a double standard I said I think men should cover their top regions too. but whatever... I don't really care anymore. In fact let me edit my first post...
 
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blackribbon

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Yeah, that's true, and honestly I don't even care that much about this thread I made. I only made it because I felt like making a thread that was new, that no one really talked about much. An article written by some liberal activist triggered me into making an argument that women should wear tops, and in order to eliminate a double standard I said I think men should cover their top regions too. but whatever... I don't really care anymore. In fact let me edit my first post...

Men and women are not the same and all standards can't be applied to both men and women equally. If they were, then men should only get maternity leave when they actually have been pregnant and given birth....because the leave time was really designed to allow the woman to recover, not to take care of the baby.
 
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Joshua_5

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So, is there a verse in the bible that says women should cover their tops?
Also, I think if we hold women to a certain standard, and women feel that a certain standard should be applied to men, then I'll wear a shirt for them. If a women asked a man to cover up, it seems like the right thing to do.
But did any woman actually ask this?
 
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Paidiske

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You know what? I don't have a problem with bare chested men on the beach. But not because a bare chested man (or at least the right bare chested man) isn't physically attractive or visually appealing.

It's because we're at the beach and they're not my husband and I'm able to relate to men in my vicinity, regardless of what they're wearing/not wearing, as human beings and not sex objects, as is appropriate for the context.

That's where the problem is and where a shift needs to occur. Not in whether we can ever see anything we might find attractive.
 
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If a women were to ask me to wear a shirt around her, I would wear a shirt. What is wrong with helping women who have such a problem?

Old guy here been going to the beach for years.
Never have I had a Lady ask me to put a shirt on.
M-Bob
 
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Joshua_5

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Men and women are not the same and all standards can't be applied to both men and women equally. If they were, then men should only get maternity leave when they actually have been pregnant and given birth....because the leave time was really designed to allow the woman to recover, not to take care of the baby.
If equal standards applied, women wouldn't even get paid maternity leave, because the bible says (2 Thessalonians 3:10) "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." Either that, or paid a lot less per hour than men, to be in line with "equal pay for equal work".
 
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blackribbon

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If equal standards applied, women wouldn't even get paid maternity leave, because the bible says (2 Thessalonians 3:10) "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." Either that, or paid a lot less per hour than men, to be in line with "equal pay for equal work".

Even men get sick leave....giving birth isn't a minor scratch....and they don't get penalized by lower pay when they develop a hernia that needs to be repaired.
 
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blackribbon

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You know what? I don't have a problem with bare chested men on the beach. But not because a bare chested man (or at least the right bare chested man) isn't physically attractive or visually appealing.

It's because we're at the beach and they're not my husband and I'm able to relate to men in my vicinity, regardless of what they're wearing/not wearing, as human beings and not sex objects, as is appropriate for the context.

That's where the problem is and where a shift needs to occur. Not in whether we can ever see anything we might find attractive.

Have you ever been physically turned on (like where you actively lusted for a man) before you were married at the sight of a shirtless man...the same way men have problems when seeing a even a skimpily clad woman? There is a difference between admiring something nice to look at and actually having lust problems.
 
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Joshua_5

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Even men get sick leave....giving birth isn't a minor scratch....and they don't get penalized by lower pay when they develop a hernia that needs to be repaired.
Equal pay for equal work would demand they are penalised. If we all were the same, there would be no men and women, or different personalities, and life would be pretty boring. Better to accept the differences and value them, than try and fit square pegs into round holes.
 
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Paidiske

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Have you ever been physically turned on (like where you actively lusted for a man) before you were married at the sight of a shirtless man...the same way men have problems when seeing a even a skimpily clad woman? There is a difference between admiring something nice to look at and actually having lust problems.

I can't say that I recall a reaction like that, no.

But if someone has lust problems... it's their problem to deal with. This idea that the problem somehow goes away if they can get everyone else to put enough clothes on is an illusion (as demonstrated with continuing lust problems in societies with an Islamic modesty code).
 
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