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Please define sin. My dictionary says "transgression of divine law". If you agree with that definition, then I do not believe in sin because I do not believe in the divine. If you are using a different definition, please tell me what it is and please show that it is self-distructive.
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I think you are taking your personal wishes and hopes and stating them as fact. I do not believe that there is a god, and the god described in the bible seems to like human suffering.
If what you are trying to say is that you only care about people because you are instructed to do so, then you lack empathy. Morality is not the result of following a directive from above. This is one of the ways that Abrahamic religions pervert morality.
If I was the god of the bible, apparently I would condemn them as evil, and I probably created the cliff, and I probably forced them to run toward it (e.g. every time the god of the bible hardens someone's heart to force them to do commit a punishable offence and then punishes them for doing so).
That is a total cop-out and a perversion of morality, and I suspect you know it. Part of you must be aware that this is a cowardly non-answer. If genocide is objectively evil, then it is also objectively evil when god does it. If you claim that god is good, you must have a pre-existing judgement of what "good" is and have empirical evidence that "god" fits the definition. In other words, you must have a moral standard that is independent of god. If you define "good" and "evil" based entirely on whatever "god" wants to do, then there is no moral objectivity and the phrase "god is good" becomes devoid of value or meaning.
Please explain to me in which way slavery and ethnic cleansing helped prepare the human race for the Messiah and for the option of eternal salvation. Let's not forget that "salvation" means that god is saving us from himself.
You are telling me that commanding and committing homicide, genocide, slavery, and ethnic cleansing were part of the process of god instructing the Israelites how to become a more loving and just society?
I take responsibility for my moral stances, yes. Independent thought is non-negotiable.
If you want citations and references about the issue of “sin,” then I will provide some passages from the Bible, since that is my primary authority for all things spiritual.
Sin is indeed disbelief and disobedience, and it always leads to destructive consequences.
In the Garden of Eden story in early Genesis (3:1-5) we hear of the first human sin; God had warned Adam and Eve to avoid one particular tree (the Tree of Good and Evil) because it would lead to death (the ultimate in self-destruction). Call it poisonous, if you will. But the spiritual death came from distrusting and disobeying the Creator (a separation from the source of Life) and physical death came into human experience later. Whether one regards the story as metaphorical or literal does not matter, the point is the same: sin leads to death – the ultimate in self-destruction. Therefore, all illness and secondary causes of death (destruction) are due to the fact of sin.
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned." (Romans 5:12)
“… desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.” (James 1:15)
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
Briefly on suffering: Does God want us to suffer? No and yes. Jesus healed many people and relieved much suffering. He was God in human form. But it is also like this: As a father, I do not want my child to suffer, but I know it will be inevitable, and so I hope all her suffering will lead to valuable lessons, to wisdom and maturity which will minimize future suffering. Sometimes God is glorified by removing the pain (John 11), but sometimes He is glorified by sustaining us through the pain (2 Corinthians 12:1-10). Christians must embrace both perspectives, not one or the other.
God’s goodness, sovereignty and love do not mean that His children will not suffer, but that they will overcome, persevere and endure. God does not promise that we will not suffer, but that suffering will not separate us from His love (Romans 8:35-39) and the suffering is always temporary for those who are saved into eternity.
Jesus was tortured and killed; He was then resurrected and ascended; He overcame suffering and even death and so will those who believe in Him, even those who believed in Him prior to His coming. You see, since the Cross and Resurrection, suffering and death are no longer the worst that can happen; now immortality is a fact and some will be with the Lord forever and others will be separated out forever for refusing to believe. You may have heard something of their fate.
I know that you will regard all this as foolishness, but I am writing to other listeners on this thread. It is a Christian Forum after all.
