How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 8, 2017

AFrazier said:
the statements of Matthew and Mark, who both noted Jesus saying that after two days was the Passover.[10]

Wrong.

<<(B)oth the statements of Matthew and Mark>> were not Jesus' statements.

They are not the same and do not refer to the same day.

YOU'RE WRONG!

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 8, 2017

AFrazier said:
Jesus traveled to Bethany from the house of Zaccheus.

Zaccheus stayed in Jericho. Jesus went from Ephraim to Bethany, where He, "six days before the passover feast-days, arrived."

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 8, 2017

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Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 8, 2017

AFrazier said:
he proceeded directly to Jerusalem,

John 12:1-11
Ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς πρὸ ἓξ ἡμερῶν τοῦ πάσχα ἦλθεν εἰς Βηθανίαν
Then Jesus six days before the Days of Passover (Ulb Feast) came to Bethany

ὅπου ἦν Λάζαρος, ὃν ἤγειρεν ἐκ νεκρῶν Ἰησοῦς.
where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

ἐποίησαν οὖν αὐτῷ δεῖπνον ἐκεῖ, καὶ ἡ Μάρθα διηκόνει,
There they made him ...lunch; and Martha served:

ὁ δὲ Λάζαρος εἷς ἦν ἐκ τῶν ἀνακειμένων σὺν αὐτῷ·
but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.
Not <directly to Jerusalem>

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 8, 2017

Passover Feast of Suffering Index

Father, glorify thy Son

A chronological and logical, historic synopsis of the four Gospels, interlinear Ebersöhn / Greek / KJV

Index

A) Towards the Last Week
(Ordered after Jesus' Last Great Journey)

Dedication of the temple in Jerusalem
John 10:22-39 "it was winter"; "he walked out of their hand" (1)

Away to the upper Jordan
John 10:40-42 (2)

Over Tyre and Sidon
Mark 7:24(-30) "to the regions in Tyre" (2)
Matthew 15:21(-28) to parts of Tyre and Sidon (2)

To Decapolis (after healing of the deaf) [Mt9:32-34]
Mark 7:31-37 "departed from Tyre and passed through Sidon by die Sea of Galilee in die regions of Decapolis (3)

In regions of Dalmanutha (after feeding of the 4000) [Lk9:18-20]
Mark 8

1-)10 "arrived in the regions of Dalmanutha (3)

I regions of Magdala
Matthew 15

29-)39 (3)

In Bethsaida
Mark 8:22-26 "came in Bethsaida" (3)

To Caesarea-Philippi
Mark 8:26(-31) "to the towns of Caesarea-Philippi" (4)
Matthew 16:13-28 "to the regions of Caesarea-Philippi"; "Whom do men say that I am" (4)
Luke 9:18-20 "Whom say people that I am?" (6)

Capernaum
Matthew 17: ...24 (before verse 1) in Capernaum (7)

Transfigured on a high mountain
Mark 9:2(-13) on a high mountain (7)
Matthew 17:1(-8) high mountain, 3 disciples apart (7)

Returning through Galilee and Samaria
Mark 9:30,31 from there through Galilee (8)
Matthew 17:...22,23... returning back in Galile (8)
Luke 17:11(-28) on the way to Jerusalem; in the middle of Samaria and Galilee (9)

Having heard Lazarus was sick
John 11:1-16 sent for Jesus to tell him (9)

On the way to Jerusalem : Along the Jordan to Judaea
Mark 10:1(-)28 comes to the regions of Judaea (12)
Matthew 19:1; 27-30 Judaea against the Jordan (12)
Mark 10:32-34 on the way going up to Jerusalem (13)
Matthew 20:17-19 almost time for Jesus to be at Jerusalem (14)
Luke 18:31-34 We return to Jerusalem (15)

Jerico and the blind [Joshua 6:26]
Luke 18:35(-43) approached Jerico [one blind] (15)
Luke 19:1-10 passed through Jericho; Zacchaeus [Hb11:] (17)
Mark 10:46-52 going out of Jericho; Bartimeus (19)
Matthew 20:29-34 going out of Jericho (20)

In Bethany : Lazarus raised; Bethany
John 11:17-53 four days in the grave. Bethany was near Jerusalem (22)

Away to rural town Ephraim
John 11:54-57 departed from there to Ephraim; passover was near (28)

Between Bethany and Jerusalem
“Six days before feast days of passover” : Sabbath [9th day of First Month]
John 12:1-11 “Six days before feast days of passover” (29)

B) The Last Week (sequence to day and hour)

Palm-Sunday : Entrance into Jerusalem : 5 days before Abib 15 is Abib 10
“Tenth day of the First Month” Exodus 12:3 Ezekiel 40:1 “Bone Day”

John 12:12-19 “the next day” (32)
= Mark 11:1-11 Bethany; entered Jerusalem; entered temple; late unto Bethany (33)
= Matthew 21:1-11 Bethphage; Jerusalem in (36)
= Luke 19:28-44 Bethphage and Bethany; into Jerusalem (38)

Last Week: Monday : 4 days before Abib 15 is Abib 11

Mark 11:12-14 “the morrow Bethany ... fig tree” (41)
= Luke 21:29-33 “behold the fig tree” (41)

Mark 11:15-17 “into temple”; “cast out them that sold”; “moneychangers”; “house of prayer” (42)
= Matthew 21:12-14 “into the temple ... cast out them that sold” (43)
= Luke 19:45,46 “into the temple ... cast out them that sold ... house of prayer” (43)
= Matthew 21:15-17 “children in the temple” (44)
= John 12:20-26 “Greeks … corn of wheat … for this cause I came”: 27 (44)

Mark 11:18 “sought how they might destroy him” (45)
= Luke 19:47,48 “sought to destroy him” (46)

Mark 11:19 “late ... he went out of the city” (46)
= Matthew 21:17 “out of the city into Bethany ... slept in sheepfold” (46)

Last Week: Tuesday : TEACHING 3 days before (Friday) Abib 15 is Abib 12

Mark 11:20 “early ... fig tree dried up” (47)

= Matthew 21:18-22; 45,46 “in the morning ... fig tree” cursed and “immediately dried up” (47)

Mark 11:27,28 “in Jerusalem in temple ... by what authority” (48)

= Matthew 21:23-25 “in temple ... what authority” (49)

= Luke 20:1-8 “one of Those Days ... what authority” (50)

Mark 12:35-37 “Jesus in the temple ... Dawid” (51)

= Matthew 22:23; 41-46 “the Same Day” (52)

= Matthew 24:1-3 “out of tempel … not be left one stone … on Mount of Olives disciples came privately” (53)

= Matthew 26:1-2 “after two day ... crucified” (53)

= John 12:27-36 “this hour ... if I be lifted up from the earth” (54)

= Luke 21:34-38 “on One of Those Days ... Watch that That Day come not upon you unawares” (56)

Last Week: Wednesday : 2 days before (Friday) Abib 15 is Abib 13

Mark 14:1,2 “after two days was the unleavened (days)” “sought how might take him ... not on feast” (57)

= Matthew 26:3-5 “consulted that they might take Jesus ... not on feast” (57)

= Luke 22:1,2 “feast drew near ... sought how” (58)

Mark 14:3-9 “house of Simon .. spikenard on head” (58)

= Matteus 26:6-13 “house of Simon .. spikenard on head” (59)

Mark 14:10,11 “Judas to priests ... promised him money” (61)

= Matthew 26:14-16 “Judas to priests ... covenanted thirty pieces silver” (61)

= Luke 22:3-6 “satan in Judas ... communed with priests ... covenanted money” (61)

= John 12:37-50 “he that rejecteth me ... receiveth not my words” (62)

B) “Three days” “the first day”
Last Week: Thursday Abib 14 was 1 day “before” (Friday) Abib 15 (69)
2Chronicles 35:4,6,10,14 “prepared passover … killed the passover”
= Exodus 12:15a “when they removed leaven”
= Leviticus 23:22,10 “when ye reap the corners ... bring the first sheaf”
Mark 14:12—15:41 “when they always killed the passover”
= Luke 22:7—23:49 “when they had to kill the passover”
= Mark 14:2 “not on the feast”
= Matthew 26:5 “not on the feast”
= John 19:14-30 “The Preparation of the Passover”
= Matthew 26:17—27:56 “the first day leaven was removed / the first day without leaven”
= John 12:32,34; 8:28 “the Son of Man must be lifted up”
= John 13:1—19:30 “before the feast ... his hour ... it was night ...”
= 1Corinthians 11:23 "The night in which the Lord was betrayed"
= John 16:32 “the hour ... ye shall be scattered every man”

“Three days” the second of :
= “the first day seven days ye shall eat unleavened bread” Exodus 12:15b; 12:18b Leviticus 23:6
= Last Week: Friday : Feast Day Sabbath of Passover was “Abib 15” (Friday)
Exodus 12:15,17,18,42,51
Mark 15:42-47 “having been evening already … since The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath having begun”
= John 19:31-42 “since the Preparation had begun ... because That Day was great-day-sabbath (of passover)”
= Matthew 27:57-61
= Luke 23:50-56a

Der Alte · May 8, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Please show us where <<the feast of unleavened bread>> in Exodus 12:16 or in Exodus 12:16-20 for that matter, occurs?

Exodus 12:15-17
(15) Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; howbeit the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses; for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
(16) And in the first day there shall be to you a holy convocation, and in the seventh day a holy convocation; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done by you.
(17) And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore shall ye observe this day throughout your generations by an ordinance for ever.

Der Alte · May 8, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Wrong.
<<(B)oth the statements of Matthew and Mark>> were not Jesus' statements.
They are not the same and do not refer to the same day.
YOU'RE WRONG!

Matthew 26:1-2
(1) And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
(2) Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

ImAHebrew · May 8, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
There are all the Scriptures. They agree, except that Exodus has the first three days under one date of the fourteenth. But still the three days are clearly discernible in the passover's first recorded history. The same sequence TO the DATES, is maintained right through Scripture, including the NT.

Joshua is the same as the rest - there's NO difference or contradiction or anachronism or whatever irreconcilable. Joshua has the same EVENTS on OTHER days of the week than in the Books of Moses.

The Sabbath was Redemption-Day at the original passover out of Egypt, and fell on the sixteenth day of the First Month. We know that because the Fourth Commandment commands that the Seventh Day Sabbath must be remembered because the LORD redeemed Israel out of Egypt on it.

Now "The people came UP, OUT of Jordan on the tenth day of the First Month." Joshua 4:19. It follows that Israel came up from the Jordan into the promised land on the Seventh Day Sabbath, and that the tenth day of the month was the Seventh Day Sabbath.

On the First, Second and Third Days following, that is, on the 11th, 12th and 13th days of the First Month, all men were circumcised.

So came the fourteenth day of the First Month on the Fourth Day of the week (Wednesday), “this (that selfsame Whole Day BONE-)Day, have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. … And the children of Israel kept passover-on-the-fourteenth of the month”, on the Fourth Day of the week (‘Wednesday’).

“11And the day after the passover (kill day), they…”, on the Fifth Day of the week (Thursday) the 15th day of the month, “…ate of the old corn unleavened cakes, parched, in this that selfsame Whole-day BONE-Day” of passover—passover-the-fifteenth day of the First Month.

You never brought Josua 4:19 into account.

Shalom Gerhard, please take into account the following.

First, the original redemption day with the children of Israel was not on the sixteenth day of the first month, but rather, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the morrow AFTER the Passover:

Numbers 33:3 And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.

The day AFTER or the MORROW after the Passover was the fifteenth day of the first month. The Passover is the fourteenth day of the first month:

Numbers 9:2-5 Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season. 3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it. 4 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover. 5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that Yahweh commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.

Now, when the Children of Israel came up out of the Jordan, on the tenth day of the first month (Joshua 4:19), this was just FOUR days BEFORE the Passover. Then, on the fourteenth day of the first month, they kept the Passover, and the very next day, on the fifteenth day of the first month, they waved the firstfruits, and ate from the produce of the land, just as they were commanded to do here:

Leviticus 23:9-11 & 14 And Yahweh spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before Yahweh, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it...14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your Elohim: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

So Gerhard, Yahweh commanded the Children of Israel to keep the Passover ON the fourteenth day of the first month, and they did this exactly how He said, and it is recorded:

Joshua 5:10 And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.

And Gerhard, just as Yahweh commanded in Leviticus 23:14, the Children of Israel were NOT to eat bread, parched corn, nor green ears UNTIL they waved the firstfruits on the morrow AFTER the Sabbath. This is EXACTLY what happened when the Children of Israel ENTERED into the Land:

Joshua 5:11 And they did eat of the ~~old~~ corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched [corn] in the selfsame day.

The ONLY way they could EAT of the produce of the land on the morrow AFTER the Passover, is IF the Passover fell on the weekly Sabbath. The morrow after the Passover is the fifteenth day of the 1st Month, and it was ALSO the weekly Sabbath, it was what we call, "a double Sabbath." Two Sabbaths FELL on ONE Day...the weekly Sabbath, and the Sabbath required for the First Day of ULB. Therefore, the MORROW after this Passover/Sabbath, they were able to eat from the produce of the Land, AFTER they waved the firstfruits and presented the offerings. Please look at what happened then on the MORROW after they ATE from the produce of the Land...this would be the sixteenth day of the first month:

Joshua 5:12 And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the ~~old~~ corn of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna any more; but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year.

The manna CEASED on the sixteenth day of the first month, on the MORROW after they had eaten. See how simple it all falls together Gerhard when you let the Scriptures say what they are PLAINLY saying? And just think, all you would have had to do was take Joshua 4:19 INTO account, and you would have correctly discerned all of these days. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 9, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
The manna CEASED on the sixteenth day of the first month, on the MORROW after they had eaten.

Joshua proves the first day counted -- the 16th of the First Month -- could be on ANY day of the week; and at the crossing through the Jordan WAS NOT on the Sabbath-of-the-week OR, on the First Day of the week, the first day of the week after the Sabbath-of-the-week.

They came up, out from the Jordan, on the Sabbath, because the Sabbath Commandment is, "Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt and that the LORD thy GOD brought thee thence by Stretched Out Arm (Jesus Christ Saviour of his People) WHEREFORE the LORD thy GOD commanded thee to keep the Sabbath."

They as it were rose from the dead on the Sabbath. And Joshua 4:19 states they came up, out of Egypt from the Jordan, "on the TENTH day of the First Month" -- the 10th of the month, on the Sabbath of the week!

And the exodus Passover-of-Yahweh record shows forever, that the Sabbath Day God redeemed Israel was "the third day" OF THE PASSOVER-OF-YAHWEH.

And God the LORD commanded on the Sabbath Day no manna shall be gathered in. Nor fell there manna on the Sabbath Day after "the Sixth Day(-of the week)".

So, manna still fell after Israel had entered Canaan. And had stopped falling on the sixteenth day of the month -- WHICH WAS NOT the Seventh Day Sabbath!

Joshua proves the first day counted -- the 16th of the First Month -- could be on ANY day of the week; and at the crossing through the Jordan WAS NOT on the Sabbath-of-the-week OR, on the First Day of the week, the first day of the week after the Sabbath-of-the-week.

ImAHebrew said:
The manna CEASED on the sixteenth day of the first month, on the MORROW after they had eaten.

Exactly! Exactly! Exactly!
“On the Sixth Day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.” Exodus 16:5.

On the 10th day, the Sabbath of the LORD, they passed through the Jordan on “Bone-Day” Ezekiel 40:1.

On the 11th, 12th, 13th (First, Second, Third Days of the week), they were circumcised on “Bone-Day” Genesis 17:26 (15:18).

On the 14th (Fourth Day of the week), they “removed leaven”, “cut” / “reaped” the corners of their land, and killed the lamb, on “Bone-Day” Exodus 12:6 Leviticus 23:5,21,14 Joshua 5:10.

On the 15th (“Night to be solemnly observed” Fifth Day of the week), “At the First Night”, they ate the lamb with ulb on “Bone-Day” Exodus 12:17,41,42 Leviticus 23:6,14; John 19:39; and “stored” / “prostrated” / “rested” the first sheaf Leviticus on “the sabbath” of the passover. Leviticus 23:11,15,16 Joshua 5:11.

“And the manna ceased on the day after (the passover-sabbath) they had eaten.” Joshua 5:12.

On the 15th (Fifth Day of the week), they “went out” on “Bone-Day” Exodus 12:6,51 Leviticus 23:43 Numbers 33:3.

On the 16th (Sixth Day of the week), they waved the first sheaf on “Bone-Day” Exodus 12:6 Leviticus 23:21; “on the day after the sabbath” of the passover. Leviticus 23:11,15,16.

Quoting

ImAHebrew said:
The manna CEASED on the sixteenth day of the first month

“On the Sixth Day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.” Exodus 16:5.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 9, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
The ONLY way they could EAT of the produce of the land on the morrow AFTER the Passover, is IF the Passover fell on the weekly Sabbath.

Proven in Joshua 4 and 5, wrong!

The following is unwarranted,
<<Now, when the Children of Israel came up out of the Jordan, on the tenth day of the first month (Joshua 4:19), this was just FOUR days BEFORE the Passover. Then, on the fourteenth day of the first month, they kept the Passover, and the very next day, on the fifteenth day of the first month, they waved the firstfruits, and ate from the produce of the land, just as they were commanded to do here:>>

It is unwarranted because of your mistaken supposition, <<the original redemption day with the children of Israel was not on the sixteenth day of the first month, but rather, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the morrow AFTER the Passover>>

The departure on the 15th was just the beginning of their redemption. The moment of realised, finished redemption, was when Israel stood on the yonder shore of the Red Sea / Jordan on the third of the three days thick darkness which like the token of death covered all the land, and "they sang the Song" of Victory and Praise, Exodus 15.

They did NOT, <<on the fifteenth day ... wave the firstfruits>>. They "ate from the produce of the land: UNLEAVENED CAKES" for passover's meal "on the fifteenth", its "night to be observed a feast", a feast of eating and drinking of "the flesh (of the slaughtered passover) with unleavened cakes" -- cakes they baked not of manna, but of the produce of the land. They "ate" on the 15th the passover's "sabbath" -- a 'Wednesday night', and on the day after, on 'Friday morning' ("the day after the (passover's) sabbath"), they, instead of to leave the land (as at the exodus from Egypt they once did), stayed / stopped / rested, and "ATE of the land" in peace and tranquillity after 40 years of journeying through the desert. They at last were redeemed; and waved the first sheaf of the first fruits of the land on the 16th.
They were not (Thursday) on the Feast-day, great-day-of-sabbath-of the passover "on the fifteenth" fully redeemed yet.
You cannot convince me otherwise; not with surmising and assuming funny things inherited from rebellious Jews of the dark ages, 'Karaites' who were unable to reach agreement even among themselves.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 9, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
And Gerhard, just as Yahweh commanded in Leviticus 23:14, the Children of Israel were NOT to eat bread, parched corn, nor green ears UNTIL they waved the firstfruits on the morrow AFTER the Sabbath. This is EXACTLY what happened when the Children of Israel ENTERED into the Land:

Joshua 5:11 And they did eat of the ~~old~~ corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched [corn] in the selfsame day.

No, this a fatal mistake.
You are identifying the fifteenth which YOU say was day-of-redemption, with <<the selfsame day ... Israel ENTERED into the Land>>, which Joshua 4:19 states, was the tenth day of the month!

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 9, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
when the Children of Israel came up out of the Jordan, on the tenth day of the first month (Joshua 4:19), this was just FOUR days BEFORE the Passover. Then, on the fourteenth day of the first month, they kept the Passover, and the very next day, on the fifteenth day of the first month, they waved the firstfruits, and ate from the produce of the land, just as they were commanded to do here:

Leviticus 23:9-11 & 14 And Yahweh spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before Yahweh, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it...14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your Elohim: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

So Gerhard, Yahweh commanded the Children of Israel to keep the Passover ON the fourteenth day of the first month, and they did this exactly how He said, and it is recorded:

<<keep the Passover>> can be many things, each of, is in actual fact, 'keeping the passover'.
So, "Ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, [*] the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering", says actually, "Keeping passover you shall eat unleavened bread, unleavened parched corn, unleavened green ears on the BONE-Day on which you brought offering."

This is Leviticus, and <it>, Leviticus 23:14, is NOT what <<is recorded>> where your <:> points to, namely, <<...it is recorded: Joshua 5:10 And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.>>

God forbid!

[*There is no 'until' in the Hebrew. The meaning is, "You shall not eat on the BONE-Day".]

ImAHebrew · May 9, 2017

Shalom Gerhard, we have been through all of this before. Numbers 33:3 states very clearly that they LEFT Egypt ON the fifteenth day of the first month. Deuteronomy 16:1 states very clearly that they left Egypt BY NIGHT. Numbers 28:16 states very clearly that the Passover is ON the fourteenth day of the first month. Exodus 11:1-3 very clearly states that Pharaoh would "thrust" the Children of Israel out of Egypt, and here they were told to "ask" for the Egyptians "jewels" of silver and gold. Numbers 12:11-12 states very clearly that the Passover was to be eaten in "haste," as in that NIGHT, judgment would be performed. Exodus 12:31 states very clearly that Pharaoh called Moses and Aaron "by night" and "urgently" (Exodus 12:33) SENT them out "in haste." Exodus 12:39 shows very clearly that BECAUSE they were "thrust" out and could not "tarry," their bread was unleavened. Exodus 12:42 states it is a "night" to be much observed, for it was the "night" in which they were brought forth OUT of Egypt.

Gerhard, they were brought forth OUT of Egypt by NIGHT, on the fifteenth day of the first month, NOT the sixteenth day. You are 100% in error concerning your assumptions that they left Egypt ON the sixteenth day of the first month, and therefore, all of your other "bone" assumptions are incorrect. Why not let the Scriptures CLEARLY show you when the Passover and deliverance occurred, instead of trying to complicate the clear Truth with a quagmire of assumptions. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Jan001 · May 9, 2017

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You do not seem to understand. Jews do not become gentiles either. Neither Jew nor Greek does not mean there are no longer Jews or Greeks or Russians in the world of Christianity...it means we all now have equal standing as believers. We are ALL "chosen people". Paul himself said for the gentiles not to boast. You are confusing the Sabbath and Sunday, 2 different things. One does not become the other or vice versa, no matter how much you want them to.

No, Jews do not ever become Gentiles. But, in order to be saved, Jews must believe by faith like the Gentiles do that it is Jesus Christ's sacrifice that will save them instead of continuing to believe that they (the Jews) will be saved by keeping the Law of Moses.

Yes, all Christians regardless of nationality have equal standing in Jesus' New Covenant. Yes, all believers in Jesus Christ are God's chosen people. If Jews desire to be God's chosen people today, they must become Christians. There is only Jesus Christ's New Covenant in force now and it is for all people of all nations.

"Sabbath" means "rest". The Sabbath (rest) day for the Jews was determined by God to be Saturday. The Sabbath (rest) day for the Christians was determined by Jesus Christ, Lord of the Sabbath, to be Sunday.

Yeshua HaDerekh · May 9, 2017

Jan001 said:
No, Jews do not ever become Gentiles. But, in order to be saved, Jews must believe by faith like the Gentiles do that it is Jesus Christ's sacrifice that will save them instead of continuing to believe that they (the Jews) will be saved by keeping the Law of Moses.

Yes, all Christians regardless of nationality have equal standing in Jesus' New Covenant. Yes, all believers in Jesus Christ are God's chosen people. If Jews desire to be God's chosen people today, they must become Christians. There is only Jesus Christ's New Covenant in force now and it is for all people of all nations.

"Sabbath" means "rest". The Sabbath (rest) day for the Jews was determined by God to be Saturday. The Sabbath (rest) day for the Christians was determined by Jesus Christ, Lord of the Sabbath, to be Sunday.

Jews do not need to convert to anything to believe in the Jewish Messiah. Gentiles are the ones grafted in. Christian is just a term used for believers in Yeshua.

You are still confused. Yeshua never changed the Sabbath day to Sunday. It may have been ADDED but it was never changed...

AFrazier · May 9, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Wrong.

<<(B)oth the statements of Matthew and Mark>> were not Jesus' statements.

They are not the same and do not refer to the same day.

YOU'RE WRONG!

I gave the scriptures. [Staff edit].

Matthew 26:1-2 — And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Mark 14:1 — After two days was [the feast of] the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put [him] to death.

I said, "consistent with the statements of Matthew and Mark, who both noted Jesus saying that after two days was the Passover." My mistake if only one of them said that Jesus said it. But both gospels do say it, and at least one of them has the words coming out of Jesus' mouth.

Read the citations when they're given if you disagree with something someone has said. [Staff edit].

AFrazier · May 9, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
John 12:1-11
Ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς πρὸ ἓξ ἡμερῶν τοῦ πάσχα ἦλθεν εἰς Βηθανίαν
Then Jesus six days before the Days of Passover (Ulb Feast) came to Bethany

ὅπου ἦν Λάζαρος, ὃν ἤγειρεν ἐκ νεκρῶν Ἰησοῦς.
where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

ἐποίησαν οὖν αὐτῷ δεῖπνον ἐκεῖ, καὶ ἡ Μάρθα διηκόνει,
There they made him ...lunch; and Martha served:

ὁ δὲ Λάζαρος εἷς ἦν ἐκ τῶν ἀνακειμένων σὺν αὐτῷ·
but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.
Not <directly to Jerusalem>

Don't take my statements out of context.

AFrazier · May 9, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Proven in Joshua 4 and 5, wrong!

The following is unwarranted,
<<Now, when the Children of Israel came up out of the Jordan, on the tenth day of the first month (Joshua 4:19), this was just FOUR days BEFORE the Passover. Then, on the fourteenth day of the first month, they kept the Passover, and the very next day, on the fifteenth day of the first month, they waved the firstfruits, and ate from the produce of the land, just as they were commanded to do here:>>

It is unwarranted because of your mistaken supposition, <<the original redemption day with the children of Israel was not on the sixteenth day of the first month, but rather, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the morrow AFTER the Passover>>

The departure on the 15th was just the beginning of their redemption. The moment of realised, finished redemption, was when Israel stood on the yonder shore of the Red Sea / Jordan on the third of the three days thick darkness which like the token of death covered all the land, and "they sang the Song" of Victory and Praise, Exodus 15.

They did NOT, <<on the fifteenth day ... wave the firstfruits>>. They "ate from the produce of the land: UNLEAVENED CAKES" for passover's meal "on the fifteenth", its "night to be observed a feast", a feast of eating and drinking of "the flesh (of the slaughtered passover) with unleavened cakes" -- cakes they baked not of manna, but of the produce of the land. They "ate" on the 15th the passover's "sabbath" -- a 'Wednesday night', and on the day after, on 'Friday morning' ("the day after the (passover's) sabbath"), they, instead of to leave the land (as at the exodus from Egypt they once did), stayed / stopped / rested, and "ATE of the land" in peace and tranquillity after 40 years of journeying through the desert. They at last were redeemed; and waved the first sheaf of the first fruits of the land on the 16th.
They were not (Thursday) on the Feast-day, great-day-of-sabbath-of the passover "on the fifteenth" fully redeemed yet.
You cannot convince me otherwise; not with surmising and assuming funny things inherited from rebellious Jews of the dark ages, 'Karaites' who were unable to reach agreement even among themselves.

He quoted the relevant scriptures. It is clearly you who are mistaken.

AFrazier · May 9, 2017

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
That's your theory. Yeshua died at 3 PM on the 14th and was buried before sunset on the 14th.

Yeshua HaDerekh, I'm curious. Do you read my posts? I've already demonstrated beyond any reasonable argument that he died on the 15th, not the 14th. You're putting doctrine, dogma or tradition ahead of scripture and history. Have you not read my posts, or have you read them and discarded them? Are you of the opinion that three gospels have it wrong?

[Staff edit].

Jan001 · May 9, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
.........
Concerning Abraham being a "Gentile." The Jews claimed that Abraham was their "father" in John 8:39. How can a "Gentile" be a father to the Jews?

Abraham was a Gentile and he did become the father of all the Jews. The Jews did not come into existence until the tribe of Judah came into existence. The Jews are named after Judah, the great-grandson of Abraham.

God called the Gentile named Abram to be the father of many nations including the Jews. (Abram) Abraham was a Gentile when God made His covenant with him.

Romans 4:13
The promise to Abraham and his descendants, that they should inherit the world, did not come through the law (of Moses) but through the righteousness of faith (grace). rsv

Romans 4:16
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise (to Abraham) may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his (Abraham's) descendants—not only to the adherents of the law (of Moses but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, rsv

Concerning your explanation of WHY Paul circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:3) and not Titus (Galatians 2:3), and your reasoning was that Paul circumcised Timothy at the "beginning" of his ministry, and with not circumcising Titus, it was "later." You may need to check your facts and come up with a better explanation, as the account of Timothy being circumcised came after the account of Titus not being circumcised. It is the exact opposite of what you teach. Just check out the timeline here:

Apostle Paul's Timeline

As you can check out, Titus was not compelled to be circumcised in 49 A.D., and Timothy WAS circumcised by Paul in 50 A.D. Please try to come up wit20h a better explanation, and if you would like, I can properly explain it to you.

And I think you missed the whole point of Acts 21:20. The Council of Acts 15 was in 49 A.D., and Paul's account with James in Acts 21:20 was in 57 A.D. This was toward the END of Paul's ministry, as he was arrested right after this event with James and the Elders. At this point in time, James, who established the four necessary requirements for the Gentiles in Acts 15 claims that there are many Jews who believe and they are all ZEALOUS for the Law. My point and question to you was James and those Believing Jews deceived, or was there an OBVIOUS difference between what was required for the Jew versus what was required for the Gentile? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

There was no deception. The Gentiles were never under the Old Covenant Law of Moses. Jesus finished the OC Law of Moses by His death on the cross. Jesus mediated His New Covenant by His death on the cross.

For Christian Jews, the old ways of the Jews were passing away, but they did not completely pass away until the destruction of the temple and the passing away of that first generation of circumcised Jewish Christians.

I do not believe that everything in each of the books of Scripture is in strict chronological order.

Zealous for the Law:
At first, the Jews believed that only Jews could be saved. But, it then it became obvious that the Gentiles were also receiving the Holy Spirit and they had never practiced Judaism. And so there was a transition period for the early Church as they learned through the Holy Spirit's inspiration how to integrate all believers regardless of prior religions into just one religion through belief in Jesus Christ and baptism. Mark 16:16

Because both Jews and Gentiles were becoming believers and because some of the Jews who believed in Jesus Christ kept insisting that the Gentiles must join Judaism in order to become saved, the first Council of the Apostles was held in Jerusalem to discuss this matter. This Council in Jerusalem ruled that the Jews (Pharisees) who were zealous for the Law of Moses were mistaken in their demands that the Gentiles be circumcised and follow the Law of Moses.

49 A.D. according to your post:

Acts 15:5
But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.” rsv

The Decision of the first Council of Jerusalem concerning Gentile Christians:

Acts 15:19-28-29
For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you (Gentile believers) no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. rsv

Acts 16:3
Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews that were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek. rsv

Galatians 12:1-3
Then after fourteen years I (Paul) went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain. 3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not compelled to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. rsv

If you are correct in that Titus was with Paul before Timothy was with Paul, it seems to me that Paul was afraid of the Jews that he'd encounter next. Paul, a Jew by birth, was a most zealous persecutor of the Christians before he converted to Christianity and so he knew how vicious the unbelieving Jews could be. Acts 26:11, Acts 8:1, Acts 9:4, Acts 11:19, Acts 13:50

Christians should not obey the Law of Moses. If they do attempt to obey the Law of Moses which is actually a yoke of slavery, they do sever themselves from Christ and so they are no longer saved.

Galatians 5:1-6
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision (and follow the Law of Moses), Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law (of Moses). 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law (of Moses); you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. rsv

How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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