How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

1stcenturylady said:

Where are three nights?

Matthew 12:40 "for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

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He said many more times "on the third day" and "in three days", so where are those nights? Also for you to have that exactly, he would have had to say "3 nights and 3 days". Read ALL of it again. What was "the sign"? Was it that a dead man was to be in a grave? No, it was THE RESURRECTION. He used the story of Yonah as a comparison.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

They were on the same day that year, the 15th was on the weekly Sabbath...

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Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, forget about your presumption, and answer how it is that the counting to Pentecost STARTS for the Jew on the morrow AFTER the High Day Sabbath, NOT the weekly Sabbath. And it can happen that the High Day Sabbath falls upon the weekly Sabbath, but it is NOT the weekly Sabbath that the Jew counts from, it is from the morrow after the High Day Sabbath. This shows beyond any shadow of doubt that the Jew would consider the 1st Day of ULB to be a Sabbath, PERIOD! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

He said many more times "on the third day" and "in three days", so where are those nights? Also for you to have that exactly, he would have had to say "3 nights and 3 days". Read ALL of it again. What was "the sign"? Was it that a dead man was to be in a grave? No, it was THE RESURRECTION. He used the story of Yonah as a comparison.

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It doesn't matter. Matthew mentioned three nights. It is written.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, forget about your presumption, and answer how it is that the counting to Pentecost STARTS for the Jew on the morrow AFTER the High Day Sabbath, NOT the weekly Sabbath. And it can happen that the High Day Sabbath falls upon the weekly Sabbath, but it is NOT the weekly Sabbath that the Jew counts from, it is from the morrow after the High Day Sabbath. This shows beyond any shadow of doubt that the Jew would consider the 1st Day of ULB to be a Sabbath, PERIOD! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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So are you saying there are 7 "other" Sabbaths to count the omer on other than the weekly 7th day Sabbath? Is May 30th of this month a Sabbath day? The count started on Sunday.

1stcenturylady said:

It doesn't matter. Matthew mentioned three nights. It is written.

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How convenient for you...it doesn't matter because why, because YOU says so LOL??

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, forget about your presumption, and answer how it is that the counting to Pentecost STARTS for the Jew on the morrow AFTER the High Day Sabbath, NOT the weekly Sabbath. And it can happen that the High Day Sabbath falls upon the weekly Sabbath, but it is NOT the weekly Sabbath that the Jew counts from, it is from the morrow after the High Day Sabbath. This shows beyond any shadow of doubt that the Jew would consider the 1st Day of ULB to be a Sabbath, PERIOD! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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What is confusing you and many others here is that they were both on the same days. Friday (14th) was the preparation day of both the Sabbath AND Passover, Saturday (15th) was the Sabbath day AND Passover, Sunday (16th) was Yom HaBikkurim AND the day the omer count began.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

So are you saying there are 7 "other" Sabbaths to count the omer on other than the weekly 7th day Sabbath? Is May 30th of this month a Sabbath day? The count started on Sunday.

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Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, Leviticus 23:15 states that the counting STARTS on the morrow AFTER the Sabbath:

Leviticus 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the Sabbath (H7676), from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:

And here is the Sabbath command:

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the Sabbath (H7676) of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the Sabbath of Yahweh in all your dwellings.

As you can see, both use the Hebrew word (H7676) for the word Sabbath. The count and the weekly Sabbath is the same (H7676). So the Jews count from the morrow after the High Day, not the weekly Sabbath. This year Shavuot is Tuesday, May 30th sunset thru Thursday, June 1st sunset. They always start their count from the morrow after Abib 15, the High Day Sabbath, and not the weekly Sabbath that you count from. The argument here is that you deny that Abib 15 can be a Sabbath, and it is obviously a Sabbath for the Jews to be counting from the morrow after this day for Shavuot (Pentecost).

The Jews are in ERROR to start their count from the morrow AFTER the High Day Sabbath, they should be counting from the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, but it is obvious that for them to be counting from the morrow after the High Day Sabbath, the High Day HAD to be a Sabbath to them. And this is what John was referring to in John 19:31. That Sabbath was a High Day Sabbath, and NOT the weekly Sabbath. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Der Alter said:

There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath." John 19:14.

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Everybody can see John 19:14 means only what it says, "it was the Preparation of the Passover". Everybody can see "it was the Preparation of the Passover" does not and cannot mean <<There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath.">> On the contrary, the implication demands there should be another 'Preparation DAY' than "The Preparation Day of the Passover", which can only mean or be the Preparation (DAY) for the Sabbath Seventh Day of the week.


"See, for that the LORD gave you the Sabbath, THEREFORE He gives you the bread for two days on the Sixth Day." Exodus 16:29. Now do you still insist <<There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath">>?!


Mark 15:42, “Now when the even was come, because it was the Preparation which is the day before the Sabbath”,

better, “When evening already had come / had been since it was The Preparation which is The Fore-Sabbath”, ‘Friday’ the whole day.

It cannot refer to just the three last hours of the Sixth Day because it speaks of the start of the Sixth Day with the “evening having come”.

And you still insist <<There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath">>?!

Der Alter said:

This article says nothing about a "preparation day" of Passover.

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Der Alter said:

This article does not say that there was a "preparation day" before 1st ULB. Note the title says "When Pesach Begins on a Saturday Night." It does not mention any "preparation day" when Pesach occurs …….

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Der Alter said:

I have never said there were no preparations for Passover! I suggest you read your article again. There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath." John 19:14.

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What is it you deny?! What is it you do not deny?!

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

How convenient for you...it doesn't matter because why, because YOU says so LOL??

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There is no need to be sarcastic.

You said, "
He said many more times "on the third day" and "in three days", so where are those nights?"

I'm saying, but Matthew does say it, so it doesn't matter that other scripture doesn't mention nights. ONE DID. That's all it takes. Not because I said so, but because Matthew did. Understand?

Some gospels do not mention that Peter also walked on water, but one did. Does that mean Peter DIDN'T walk on water. IT IS WRITTEN.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, Leviticus 23:15 states that the counting STARTS on the morrow AFTER the Sabbath:

Leviticus 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the Sabbath (H7676), from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:

And here is the Sabbath command:

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the Sabbath (H7676) of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the Sabbath of Yahweh in all your dwellings.

As you can see, both use the Hebrew word (H7676) for the word Sabbath. The count and the weekly Sabbath is the same (H7676). So the Jews count from the morrow after the High Day, not the weekly Sabbath. This year Shavuot is Tuesday, May 30th sunset thru Thursday, June 1st sunset. They always start their count from the morrow after Abib 15, the High Day Sabbath, and not the weekly Sabbath that you count from. The argument here is that you deny that Abib 15 can be a Sabbath, and it is obviously a Sabbath for the Jews to be counting from the morrow after this day for Shavuot (Pentecost).

The Jews are in ERROR to start their count from the morrow AFTER the High Day Sabbath, they should be counting from the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, but it is obvious that for them to be counting from the morrow after the High Day Sabbath, the High Day HAD to be a Sabbath to them. And this is what John was referring to in John 19:31. That Sabbath was a High Day Sabbath, and NOT the weekly Sabbath. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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You could not contradict yourself more conspicuously.

ImAHebrew said:

the Jews count from the morrow after the High Day, not the weekly Sabbath.

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ImAHebrew said:

The Jews are in ERROR to start their count from the morrow AFTER the High Day Sabbath

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And here is why you contradict yourself,

ImAHebrew said:

That Sabbath was a High Day Sabbath, and NOT the weekly Sabbath.

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And here is where you went WRONG, <<That Sabbath was a High Day Sabbath>>
John 19:31 literally reads "That DAY was great day of sabbath of" the Passover! Not, of the week! John does say that <<it>> "the Preparation, was", with so many words, "the day of that Sabbath",

John 19:31
… ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν …
... because it was the preparation ...

ἦν γὰρ μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου·
for was great the day of that sabbath-of(passover)

. . . οἱ οὖν Ἰουδαῖοι, ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν,
. . . the Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,

ἠρώτησαν τὸν Πειλᾶτον ἵνα κατεαγῶσιν αὐτῶν τὰ σκέλη
besought Pilate that their legs might be broken

ἵνα μὴ μείνῃ ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ τὰ σώματα ἐν τῷ σαββάτῳ
that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the sabbath,

ἦν γὰρ μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου·
for was great the day of that sabbath-of(passover)

καὶ ἀρθῶσιν (τὰ σώματα) .
and they might be taken away.

[*ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΡΚΟΝ 15 Nestle GNT 1904 Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
Οἱ οὖν Ἰουδαῖοι, ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν, ἵνα μὴ μείνῃ ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ τὰ σώματα ἐν τῷ σαββάτῳ, ἦν γὰρ μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου, ἠρώτησαν τὸν Πειλᾶτον ἵνα κατεαγῶσιν αὐτῶν τὰ σκέλη καὶ ἀρθῶσιν.

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005 Greek Orthodox Church 1904 Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Οἱ οὖν Ἰουδαῖοι, ἵνα μὴ μείνῃ ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ τὰ σώματα ἐν τῷ σαββάτῳ ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν― ἦν γὰρ μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου― ἠρώτησαν τὸν Πιλάτον ἵνα κατεαγῶσιν αὐτῶν τὰ σκέλη, καὶ ἀρθῶσιν.]

1stcenturylady said:

so where are those nights?"

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Here is
night one, Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30
Here is
night two, John 19:31,39 Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 22:50
Here is
night three, Luke 23:56b Matthew 27:62
Here is
night four, Mark 16:1 John 20:1,2-9 Luke 24:1-10 Mark 16:2-8 John 20:11-17 Matthew 28:5-8

ImAHebrew said:

And this is what John was referring to in John 19:31. That Sabbath was a High Day Sabbath, and NOT the weekly Sabbath. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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That Sabbath was ALSO a high day. He did not say, for that Sabbath was a high day Sabbath...that makes no sense.

1stcenturylady said:

There is no need to be sarcastic.

You said, "
He said many more times "on the third day" and "in three days", so where are those nights?"

I'm saying, but Matthew does say it, so it doesn't matter that other scripture doesn't mention nights. ONE DID. That's all it takes. Not because I said so, but because Matthew did. Understand?

Some gospels do not mention that Peter also walked on water, but one did. Does that mean Peter DIDN'T walk on water. IT IS WRITTEN.

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It says 3 days and 3 nights, but you cant get what you want it to be because it would have to say 3 nights and 3 days. That was mentioned because it was part of the story of Yonah. You just don't get it...

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom Der Alter, please see what I have previously written to you. I have written that BOTH the Thayer and NASEC dictionaries call the "preparation" a preparation for the Sabbath AND Feast Days:
(NASEC) G3904 παρασκευή (paraskeuē) Definition: preparation, the day of preparation (for a Sabbath or feast) Transliteration: paraskeue Word Origin: from 3903 NASB Translation: day(1), day of preparation(3), preparation(2), preparation day(1).
(Thayer) G3904 παρασκευή (paraskeuē) 1.) a making ready, preparation, equipping 2.) that which is prepared, equipment 3.) in the NT in a Jewish sense, the day of preparation 3.a.) the day on which the Jews made necessary preparation to celebrate a sabbath or a feast Etymology: as if from G3903 TDNT: 7:1,989 Part of Speech: n f AV- preparation (6);

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This is known as the "My source/verse trumps your source/verse." ploy. What I see in both so-called sources are opinions without supporting data. The Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich [BAG] lexicon, NOT, dictionary is older than both Thayer and NASEC, which I have never heard of. BAG provides historical references for the translations provided, which I have highlighted in blue.

I have also previously written to you that the Day of Atonement is a Sabbath of rest (Leviticus 23:32), and it is a holy convocation (Leviticus 23:27), and that day does not have to fall on the weekly Sabbath.

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I have also previously written to you that the 1st Day and the 8th Great Day of the Feast of Tabernacles are rests days (Sabbaths - Leviticus 23:39). And they are holy convocations (Leviticus 23:34-36).
I have also previously written to you that the Jews count from the "morrow after the Sabbath" to mean counting from the 1st High Day Sabbath of ULB (Leviticus 23:15).

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All irrelevant. That some other holy convocation is called a Sabbath does not in any way make any other holy convocation a Sabbath unless the other holy convocation is called a Sabbath. End of story.
[QUOTE]I have also previously written to you that John states uniquivocally that the preparation day, WAS the preparation of the PASSOVER, not the preparation of the Sabbath (John 19:14).[/QUOTE]
John had no scriptural authority to designate any day a Sabbath unless God had done so in the OT. If, as I have said repeatedly, Passover fell on the Sabbath the permitted work on 1st/7th ULB, i.e. preparing and cooking food, would have to be done on Parasceue, the Greek name for Friday which also mean "preparation."

So your "previously written articles" are meaningless in the weight of ALL of this solid evidence that the 1st and 7th days of ULB can be considered to be holy convocations with no servile work performed, making them High Day Sabbaths, that needed to have preparations done before they began. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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Your questionable "sources" do not trump anything I have posted, for the reasons stated above.. You have provided no credible evidence that "the 1st and 7th days of ULB can be considered to be holy convocations with no servile work performed, making them High Day Sabbaths, that needed to have preparations done before they began" as you state here.
Do I need to remind you that when God established the ULB God Himself said,
God Himself said that "that which every man must eat" was "work" which could be performed on 1st/7th ULB.
..... The term "high day Sabbath" does not occur anywhere in the OT and 1st/7th ULB are never specifically called a Sabbath.

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

What is it you deny?! What is it you do not deny?!

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A lot of wasted effort for naught! Had you been paying attention when I said "There is no single day which could be called the preparation of the Sabbath." John 19:14." It was simply a typo. It should have read "There is no single day which could be called the preparation of the Passover." because I was discussing Jn 19:14.

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

Everybody can see John 19:14 means only what it says, "it was the Preparation of the Passover". Everybody can see "it was the Preparation of the Passover" does not and cannot mean <<There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath.">> On the contrary, the implication demands there should be another 'Preparation DAY' than "The Preparation Day of the Passover", which can only mean or be the Preparation (DAY) for the Sabbath Seventh Day of the week.
"See, for that the LORD gave you the Sabbath, THEREFORE He gives you the bread for two days on the Sixth Day." Exodus 16:29. Now do you still insist <<There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath">>?!
Mark 15:42, “Now when the even was come, because it was the Preparation which is the day before the Sabbath”,
better, “When evening already had come / had been since it was The Preparation which is The Fore-Sabbath”, ‘Friday’ the whole day.
It cannot refer to just the three last hours of the Sixth Day because it speaks of the start of the Sixth Day with the “evening having come”.
And you still insist <<There is no single day which could be termed "the preparation of the Sabbath">>?!

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All this wasted effort for naught. There was only one "Parasceue" in passion week that was the day we call Friday. Since work is not permitted on the Sabbath sufficient food for the full day must be "prepared" on the day we call Friday. The Greek name for this day was, and is, the noun "παρασκευή/parasceue," which also happens to mean "preparation." This noun occurs only 6 times in the NT.
The day that follows the preparation is the Sabbath
The "Preparation" is the day before the Sabbath, Not "one of the Sabbaths or "the first Sabbath" etc.
The was just before "the Sabbath."
Only here does John say the "the preparation of the passover." Unless the Passover occurs on a Sabbath there would be no "the Preparation" before Passover.
The "Preparation" was for the Sabbath.
There is a word in the NT which means "prepare" the verb ἑτοιμάζω/etomazo it occurs 40 times.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, the Jews considered that the High Day of the Feast of ULB to be a Sabbath, as they start their count to Shavout (Pentecost) on the morrow after this High Day Sabbath:

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Please show me the designation "High Day Sabbath:" anywhere in the OT. I can't seem to find it.
The word translated "high" in John 19:72 is "μέγας/ megas"
It occurs in the NT 185 times it is only translated "high" one time Jn 19:31. It is translated "great" 143 times, "loud" 33, times and "exceedingly,""large" and 'sore" the other times. I don't think it is wise to build a doctrine on high Sabbath

Leviticus 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the Sabbath (H7676), from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
It is beyond any doubt that they consider this High Day to be a Sabbath, otherwise, their counting could not start from it.
Your contention that John is speaking about the weekly Sabbath is not provable. John is not speaking about the weekly Sabbath in John 19:31, he is speaking about the High Day Sabbath that falls on the 1st Day of Unleavened Bread (the 15th day):

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Please show me where "high day" or "high Sabbath" occurs in the OT?

Leviticus 23:6-7 And on the fifteenth day of the same month

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[is] the Feast of unleavened bread unto Yahweh: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

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When God instituted the feast of unleavened bread He said.
Since the "work" of preparing and cooking food is specifically permitted on the "holy convocations/holy congregations" neither day is truly a Sabbath.

Plus, John had previously told us that the "preparation" was the "preparation of the Passover" (John 19:14). If John considered this "preparation" a "preparation of the weekly Sabbath" he would not have made the "Passover" distinction in this verse. So it is you who are not making any sense in your tradition. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

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.

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If John was only talking about "the preparation of the Passover" and not the Sabbath why did he say.

Der Alter said:

This is known as the "My source/verse trumps your source/verse." ploy. What I see in both so-called sources are opinions without supporting data. The Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich [BAG] lexicon, NOT, dictionary is older than both Thayer and NASEC, which I have never heard of. BAG provides historical references for the translations provided, which I have highlighted in blue.

Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker [BAGD] Lexicon of New Testament Greek.
παρασκευή paraskeue, h`", hJ ( trag. , Hdt. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , Ep. Arist. , Philo , Joseph. ) lit. preparation ( Polyaenus 7, 21, 6 tou` deivpnou ; 7, 27, 3 polevmou ), in our lit. only of a definite day, as the day of preparation for a festival; acc. to Jewish usage ( Jos. , Ant. 16, 163; Synes. , Ep. 4 p. 161 D it was Friday, on which day everything had to be prepared for the Sabbath, when no work was permitted Mt 27:62 (CCTorrey, ZAW 65, ’53, 242= JBL 50, ’31, 234 n. 3, ‘sunset’. Against Torrey, SZeitlin, JBL 51, ’32, 263-71); Mk 15:42 ; J 19:31[color] . hJmevra paraskeuh`" Lk 23:54 ( v.l. hJm. prosabbavtou, cf. Mk 15:42 ). paraskeuh; tw`n jIoudaivwn J 19:42 . paraskeuh; tou` pavsca day of preparation for the Passover (or Friday of Passover Week ) vs. 1 4. For the Christians as well paraskeuhv served to designate the sixth day of the week (ESchürer, ZNW 6, ’05, 10; 11 f ) Friday MPol 7:1, and so in Mod. Gk. For Christians it is a fast day, as the day of Jesus’ death D 8:1.— M-M. B. 1008.*
BAGD Lexicon online​

All irrelevant. That some other holy convocation is called a Sabbath does not in any way make any other holy convocation a Sabbath unless the other holy convocation is called a Sabbath. End of story.
[QUOTE]I have also previously written to you that John states uniquivocally that the preparation day, WAS the preparation of the PASSOVER, not the preparation of the Sabbath (John 19:14).
John had no scriptural authority to designate any day a Sabbath unless God had done so in the OT. If, as I have said repeatedly, Passover fell on the Sabbath the permitted work on 1st/7th ULB, i.e. preparing and cooking food, would have to be done on Parasceue, the Greek name for Friday which also mean "preparation."

Your questionable "sources" do not trump anything I have posted, for the reasons stated above.. You have provided no credible evidence that "the 1st and 7th days of ULB can be considered to be holy convocations with no servile work performed, making them High Day Sabbaths, that needed to have preparations done before they began" as you state here.
Do I need to remind you that when God established the ULB God Himself said,

"And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you." Exodus 12:16 ​

God Himself said that "that which every man must eat" was "work" which could be performed on 1st/7th ULB.
..... The term "high day Sabbath" does not occur anywhere in the OT and 1st/7th ULB are never specifically called a Sabbath.

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Trump? Is this a context? We are all Christians with the same Word of God. It would just be nice if we all believed HIM.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

That Sabbath was ALSO a high day. He did not say, for that Sabbath was a high day Sabbath...that makes no sense.

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Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, what Sabbath do the Jews count from for getting to Pentecost...the weekly Sabbath, or the High Day Sabbath? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.