" Substitutionary Atonement "...What is it ??

Ron Gurley said:

" Substitutionary Atonement "...a preamble!

1. The TRI-UNE God created Mankind in THEIR own spritual image.

2. "Natural Man", beginning with A&E, has an innate "sin nature"...
to be disobedient, self / world centered, and with a tendancy to turn from God.

3. God has given Man (and angels) the spiritual gift of "Free Will" to spiritually accept or reject Him
and His gracious provisions for salvation when called / drawn by the Spirit.

4. God is perfectly Loving/Merciful/full of Grace. AND He is also perfectly JUST.
He loves all sinners. AND He hates all sin.

5. Sinful Man on his own cannot work his way to heaven and be acceptable to a perfect sinless God. A sin barrier exists.
Man needs a Savior to act on his behalf to reconcile himself to God

6. Jesus the God-Man had a DUAL NATURE:
True Man: the sinless New Adam.
True Deity: Divinity poured out into a miraculous Body without loss or change of Deity.

7. Jesus the Divine Messiah voluntarily bled to death on a cruel, unjust Cross.
Jesus the God-Man voluntarily substituted Himself FOR all sins FOR all Men FOR all time.
His miraculous birth, ministry, death, resurrection, appearances, and ascension
RECONCILED Man to God. (at-one-ment)

8. The New Covenant: The blood of Jesus covers the sin of man.
We believers are longer under condemnation.
We believers are FORGIVEN of our SINS.

PLEASE DISCUSS (with supporting copy + paste Scripture) Your VIEWS on any or all of the above.

AND NOW: " Substitutionary Atonement "

Substitution = e.g. "hyper" / ...Jesus died FOR you...in your place

2 Corinthians 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin "on our behalf",
that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him." (Imputed Righteousness!)

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once FOR all;
but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

1 Peter 3:18 -
"For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the righteous (Jesus) FOR the unrighteous (Man),
that he might bring us to God" (reconciliation)

1 Peter 2 (NASB)
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered FOR you,
leaving you an example FOR you to follow in His steps,
22 (Jesus who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
FOR by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

Atonement = basic meaning of RECONCILIATION....work of redemption on behalf of ...

"Atonement" = at-ONE-ment = spiritual reconciliation and other benefits of salvation...
...some spiritual act that "pays for" / redeems Man from his sin nature / sin / sin(s)
...the penalty due to Man's sins are avoided
...action decreed by God for the re-establishment of a positive relationship
between Man (the sinner) and Himself (the holy God).

The OT is replete with a myriad of ritual laws to cover the sins of Israel.
The word Atonement is used only ONCE in the KJV of the NT.

Romans 5:11 KJV
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom we have now received the atonement.

the atonement. ...Greek 2643....katallage....adjustment of a difference, RECONCILIATION, restoration to favour

Romans 5: 6-11 (NASB)
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.
For one will hardly die for a righteous man;
though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died FOR us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (sanctified) by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Leviticus 16:34
Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, (Mosaic Law)
to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year.”
And just as the Lord had commanded Moses, so he did.

Hebrews 7:27
who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices,
first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people,
because this He did once FOR all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 9:12
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but THROUGH His own blood,
He entered the holy place once FOR all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified
through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once FOR all.

See also: PROPITIATION ...

New Testament Greek:
G2435 hilasterion (he-lä-sta'-re-on) =~ propitiation, "mercy seat"

...“The word propitiation carries the basic idea of appeasement, or satisfaction, specifically towards God.
Propitiation is a two-part act that involves
appeasing the wrath of an offended person and
being reconciled to them.”
Propitiation is that:
“by which it becomes consistent with his character and government to pardon and bless the sinner.
The propitiation does not procure his love or make him loving; (God is ALSO perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL!)
it only renders it consistent for him to exercise his love towards sinners...

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God,
but that He loved us and
sent His Son to be the propitiation FOR our sins.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things,
so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make propitiation FOR the sins of the people.

The BLOOD of Jesus:

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus
you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence
to enter the holy place (presence of God) by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant,
and to the (His) sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead
the great Shepherd of the sheep
through the blood of the eternal covenant,
even Jesus our Lord,

1 Peter 1:2 ...a peek a the TRI-UNE GOD?
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
by the sanctifying work of (God) the (Holy) Spirit,
to obey (God the Son) Jesus Christ
and be sprinkled with His blood:
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

1 John 1:7
but if we (believers) walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light,
we have fellowship with one another, and
the blood of Jesus His Son CLEANSES (washes away) us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ,
the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—

Click to expand...

Ron Gurley said:

" Substitutionary Atonement "...a preamble!

1. The TRI-UNE God created Mankind in THEIR own spritual image.

2. "Natural Man", beginning with A&E, has an innate "sin nature"...
to be disobedient, self / world centered, and with a tendancy to turn from God.

3. God has given Man (and angels) the spiritual gift of "Free Will" to spiritually accept or reject Him
and His gracious provisions for salvation when called / drawn by the Spirit.

4. God is perfectly Loving/Merciful/full of Grace. AND He is also perfectly JUST.
He loves all sinners. AND He hates all sin.

5. Sinful Man on his own cannot work his way to heaven and be acceptable to a perfect sinless God. A sin barrier exists.
Man needs a Savior to act on his behalf to reconcile himself to God

6. Jesus the God-Man had a DUAL NATURE:
True Man: the sinless New Adam.
True Deity: Divinity poured out into a miraculous Body without loss or change of Deity.

7. Jesus the Divine Messiah voluntarily bled to death on a cruel, unjust Cross.
Jesus the God-Man voluntarily substituted Himself FOR all sins FOR all Men FOR all time.
His miraculous birth, ministry, death, resurrection, appearances, and ascension
RECONCILED Man to God. (at-one-ment)

8. The New Covenant: The blood of Jesus covers the sin of man.
We believers are longer under condemnation.
We believers are FORGIVEN of our SINS.

PLEASE DISCUSS (with supporting copy + paste Scripture) Your VIEWS on any or all of the above.

AND NOW: " Substitutionary Atonement "

Substitution = e.g. "hyper" / ...Jesus died FOR you...in your place

2 Corinthians 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin "on our behalf",
that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him." (Imputed Righteousness!)

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once FOR all;
but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

1 Peter 3:18 -
"For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the righteous (Jesus) FOR the unrighteous (Man),
that he might bring us to God" (reconciliation)

1 Peter 2 (NASB)
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered FOR you,
leaving you an example FOR you to follow in His steps,
22 (Jesus who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
FOR by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

Atonement = basic meaning of RECONCILIATION....work of redemption on behalf of ...

"Atonement" = at-ONE-ment = spiritual reconciliation and other benefits of salvation...
...some spiritual act that "pays for" / redeems Man from his sin nature / sin / sin(s)
...the penalty due to Man's sins are avoided
...action decreed by God for the re-establishment of a positive relationship
between Man (the sinner) and Himself (the holy God).

The OT is replete with a myriad of ritual laws to cover the sins of Israel.
The word Atonement is used only ONCE in the KJV of the NT.

Romans 5:11 KJV
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom we have now received the atonement.

the atonement. ...Greek 2643....katallage....adjustment of a difference, RECONCILIATION, restoration to favour

Romans 5: 6-11 (NASB)
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.
For one will hardly die for a righteous man;
though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died FOR us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (sanctified) by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Leviticus 16:34
Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, (Mosaic Law)
to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year.”
And just as the Lord had commanded Moses, so he did.

Hebrews 7:27
who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices,
first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people,
because this He did once FOR all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 9:12
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but THROUGH His own blood,
He entered the holy place once FOR all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified
through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once FOR all.

See also: PROPITIATION ...

New Testament Greek:
G2435 hilasterion (he-lä-sta'-re-on) =~ propitiation, "mercy seat"

...“The word propitiation carries the basic idea of appeasement, or satisfaction, specifically towards God.
Propitiation is a two-part act that involves
appeasing the wrath of an offended person and
being reconciled to them.”
Propitiation is that:
“by which it becomes consistent with his character and government to pardon and bless the sinner.
The propitiation does not procure his love or make him loving; (God is ALSO perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL!)
it only renders it consistent for him to exercise his love towards sinners...

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God,
but that He loved us and
sent His Son to be the propitiation FOR our sins.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things,
so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make propitiation FOR the sins of the people.

The BLOOD of Jesus:

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus
you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence
to enter the holy place (presence of God) by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant,
and to the (His) sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead
the great Shepherd of the sheep
through the blood of the eternal covenant,
even Jesus our Lord,

1 Peter 1:2 ...a peek a the TRI-UNE GOD?
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
by the sanctifying work of (God) the (Holy) Spirit,
to obey (God the Son) Jesus Christ
and be sprinkled with His blood:
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

1 John 1:7
but if we (believers) walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light,
we have fellowship with one another, and
the blood of Jesus His Son CLEANSES (washes away) us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ,
the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—

Click to expand...

mkgal said:

If you can somehow turn that around and think of it with the theory in mind that Jesus died on the cross in order to draw us to Him.....for us to be "satisfied" that there was a "price paid" because that's what our minds feel is just....then maybe you can see that "for us" can also just mean "for our benefit".

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St_Worm2 said:

Hi mkgal1, the thing is, I'm not looking through the "filter" of a presupposition and trying to force the Bible to 'fit' my presupposition. In the case of the doctrine of "Substitutionary Atonement", I'm agreeing with it because, just like I agree with our Creeds, it teaches/expresses/encapsulates/summarizes what the Bible says about the Atonement.

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mkgal said:

If you can somehow turn that around and think of it with the theory in mind that Jesus died on the cross in order to draw us to Him.....for us to be "satisfied" that there was a "price paid" because that's what our minds feel is just....then maybe you can see that "for us" can also just mean "for our benefit".

Click to expand...

St Worm2 said:

Such a belief is nothing more than another, repackaged attempt at saying, "we can save ourselves by our own goodness/we don't need a Savior". This is absolutely NOT what the Bible teaches us from Genesis through Revelation!! Rather, it tells us that we absolutely need a Savior, not simply a "guide". This belief of yours (though hardly "new") is anti-Christian, anti-Church .. and anti-Christ, since it dismisses Him as our Savior.

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Your belief also makes the Father out to be a monster, since it teaches that God sent His Son here to die that horrible death on the Cross for us when it was not necessary for Him to do so. Again, the Bible teaches that Christ is, by necessity, our "Savior", not just a "guide" to us, and the Bible could not be clearer about what that means.

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Ron Gurley said:

The TRI-UNE God created Mankind in THEIR own spritual image.

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

There has never been a Christian Church I have ever been aware of that did
not plainly teach from the BIBLE the necessity of the cross, the reason God tells plainly in the BIBLE for the crucifixion, and the need for all believers to be crucified with Christ as clearly stated in the BIBLE.

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Article said:

There are many references to the effectiveness of Christ's atoning work, and we are not lacking in information about its many - sidedness. Thus Paul gives a good deal of emphasis to the atonement as a process of justification, and he uses such concepts as redemption, propitiation, and reconciliation. Sometimes we read of the cross as a victory or as an example. It is the sacrifice that makes a new covenant, or simply a sacrifice. There are many ways of viewing it. We are left in no doubt about its efficacy and its complexity. View the human spiritual problem as you will, and the cross meets the need. But the NT does not say how it does so.

Through the centuries there have been continuing efforts to work out how this was accomplished. Theories of the atonement are legion as men in different countries and in different ages have tried to bring together the varied strands of scriptural teaching and to work them into a theory that will help others to understand how God has worked to bring us salvation. The way has been open for this kind of venture, in part at least, because the church has never laid down an official, orthodox view.

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It is important to note that the Church has never accepted as doctrine any one particular theory of atonement. It is likewise important to note that the primary motive for God’s action in Christ was love, not honor. God saved us in Christ because he loved us, not because his honor was offended, nor because he was bound by some law of necessity. Nor did God “directly” will the horrific death of Christ. Rather, Jesus’ death was the inevitable result of his perfect, unconditional love meeting a broken world.

How exactly Christ took upon himself the sin of the world is a mystery. What matters is that he did, and that he has offered a way of salvation. I tend to find in authors such as Rene Girard and N.T. Wright good answers to these questions. But the most important thing on this feast is to revel in the unconditional love of God showered upon us in Christ.~Some Theories of Atonement, or Love, Not Honor or Substitution

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

Now you're just digging a deeper pit....
God loved men perfectly,
God loves men perfectly,
and God hates perfectly, when He hates .

The blood was not needed for Him to love us.
It was needed so we could love Him.

Without the blood, no one could love God. No one could be saved.

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

It is clearly written,
and
divinely revealed ..

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

(paraphrased in english for understanding here, if possible)

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mkgal1 said:

I don't know of anything from the Bible that is "clearly stated" about whether it was to "satisfy the wrath of God" (I don't believe)

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St_Worm2 said:

Here's one passage to consider.

Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Click to expand...