The Fruit in the Garden and Sin

Colter · May 4, 2017

miknik5 said:
You have already confirmed that what you say is your theology

Are you saying that GOD supports your theology?

God supports the fact that we all have a "theology".

Colter · May 4, 2017

Alithis said:
Its supported by theiry conjecture and guess work. Not clear unambiguious scripture.
Vain imaginings puffed up.

Phycological projection.

miknik5 · May 4, 2017

Colter said:
God supports the fact that we all have a "theology".

GOD supports the fact that we add "yeast" where "yeast" is not needed?

miknik5 · May 4, 2017

dqhall said:
There laws of ritual procedure and purity. David was hungry. It was an emergency. David was an enlightened leader and was able to find away around rules that might have trapped he and his army. It was his decision and he gained once again.

Let me think about that?

With regards to his sin of numbering his troop:

1. David was an "enlightened leader?
(He numbered his men)

2. He was able to find a way around rules
(Against you alone have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight)

3. It was his decision and he gained once again
(His decision cost the lives of many people)

1213 · May 4, 2017

FrankDux said:
There was no Adam and Eve, they are fictions created based on older texts, as is the Genesis account and many other Bible stories

I don’t believe that.

FrankDux said:
...A closer examination of the semiosis of the symbol itself shows it to be constructed based on the bi-sexigesimal base system of mathematical astronomy that provided the framework for life in Mesopotamia for thousands of years, in this case it refers to quadrature for the purpose of astronomy ( Duty of the High Priest )...

Yes, it may have been in Mesopotamia, but still it can be from the Jews who were often in captivity in the other countries or nations. Jews were usually in high positions and that way they could have influenced to the other nations and left things that then can be found in many scriptures.

For example, Daniel was in Babylonia. Moses and Josef in Egypt. They may have influenced to those cultures so that they seem to have similar things that Jews have.

danstribe · May 4, 2017

"Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Corinthians 1:25 "For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 1 Corinthians 1:21.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 4, 2017

dqhall said:
I meant one is not supposed to steal apples from his neighbor's garden. It is OK to buy them.
The Torah is not God. Those who worship the book will find it mute about many subjects.

Yes, I knew what you meant, and clearly you did not and do not agree with God's Clear Instructions to all His People.

Deuteronomy 15:9
King James Version
Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the Lord against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

Exodus 23:10-11

The Message
“Sow your land for six years and gather in its crops, but in the seventh year leave it alone and give it a rest so that your poor may eat from it. What they leave, let the wildlife have. Do the same with your vineyards and olive groves.

Exodus 22:25

King James Version
If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
New Revised Standard Version
If you lend money to my people, to the poor among you, you shall not deal with them as a creditor; you shall not exact interest from them.

Acts 9:36

New Living Translation
There was a believer in Joppa named Tabitha (which in Greek is Dorcas). She was always doing kind things for others and helping the poor.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
New International Version
In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (in Greek her name is Dorcas); she was always doing good and helping the poor.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Acts 10:2

New Living Translation
He was a devout, God-fearing man, as was everyone in his household. He gave generously to the poor and prayed regularly to God.
==========================
=========================

Acts 10:4

New Living Translation
Cornelius stared at him in terror. “What is it, sir?” he asked the angel. And the angel replied, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have been received by God as an offering!
==============================
=========================
Leviticus 25:35

New Living Translation
[ Redemption of the Poor and Enslaved ] “If one of your fellow Israelites falls into poverty and cannot support himself, support him as you would a foreigner or a temporary resident and allow him to live with you.

King James Version
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

New International Version
“‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.

Leviticus 25:25

If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away some of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it, then shall he redeem that which his brother sold.

“‘If one of your fellow Israelites becomes poor and sells some of their property, their nearest relative is to come and redeem what they have sold.

“If one of your brothers becomes poor and has to sell any of his land, his nearest relative is to come and buy back what his brother sold. If a man has no one to redeem it but he later prospers and earns enough for its redemption, he is to calculate the value since he sold it and refund the balance to the man to whom he sold it; he can then go back to his own land. If he doesn’t get together enough money to repay him, what he sold remains in the possession of the buyer until the year of Jubilee. In the Jubilee it will be returned and he can go back and live on his land.

danstribe · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
One thing to consider when finding similarities from other religions is that of course there would have to be similarities in other religions, because religions are attempts to find God. You can't then jump to the conclusion that a similarity then proves mere propagation of ideas, past the given that ideas propagate to the extent they have some connection with truth, of course. Truth is already true.

Let's be more specific -- when Christ said the 'golden rule' for instance, the fact that somewhat similar (but still different) versions of it had been said elsewhere isn't a basis to conclude that it is merely imported (though a non believer will usually conclude that).

It's similar to math -- a math principle can be independently discovered in different places. The principle is true (or not) independently of that. If it is true, a repeating of it would be expected often. More precisely, a false idea won't show up over and over.

One thing I noticed about other versions of the golden rule is that they are not quite the same though. They are incomplete. For example (one case only here), it's not the same to say merely "don't do to others things you don't want them to do to you". So, His wording is powerful for us in the particular words -- "So in everything" for instance.

But, even if it had happened that the exactly full wording He said had even appeared somewhere else, that would still only be consistent with propositions that are true.

Why are there similarities? Why would the Sumerians seem to have written a story like Noah BEFORE Moses wrote it? That is simple to answer really, the texts of the Sumerians was written in stone and it was an adulterated version of the real story of Noah. Moses was the first commissioned to write it down. All other religions of the world are counterfeits of Satan, who knew VERY WELL what the true religion is AND what was going to happen concerning Christ. He set it all up before God's people in order to try and establish legitimacy.

danstribe · May 4, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yes, I knew what you meant, and clearly you did not and do not agree with God's Clear Instructions to all His People.

Deuteronomy 15:9
King James Version
Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the Lord against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

Exodus 23:10-11

The Message
“Sow your land for six years and gather in its crops, but in the seventh year leave it alone and give it a rest so that your poor may eat from it. What they leave, let the wildlife have. Do the same with your vineyards and olive groves.

Exodus 22:25

King James Version
If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
New Revised Standard Version
If you lend money to my people, to the poor among you, you shall not deal with them as a creditor; you shall not exact interest from them.

Acts 9:36

New Living Translation
There was a believer in Joppa named Tabitha (which in Greek is Dorcas). She was always doing kind things for others and helping the poor.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
New International Version
In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (in Greek her name is Dorcas); she was always doing good and helping the poor.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Acts 10:2

New Living Translation
He was a devout, God-fearing man, as was everyone in his household. He gave generously to the poor and prayed regularly to God.
==========================
=========================

Acts 10:4

New Living Translation
Cornelius stared at him in terror. “What is it, sir?” he asked the angel. And the angel replied, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have been received by God as an offering!
==============================
=========================
Leviticus 25:35

New Living Translation
[ Redemption of the Poor and Enslaved ] “If one of your fellow Israelites falls into poverty and cannot support himself, support him as you would a foreigner or a temporary resident and allow him to live with you.

King James Version
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

New International Version
“‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.

Leviticus 25:25

If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away some of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it, then shall he redeem that which his brother sold.

“‘If one of your fellow Israelites becomes poor and sells some of their property, their nearest relative is to come and redeem what they have sold.

“If one of your brothers becomes poor and has to sell any of his land, his nearest relative is to come and buy back what his brother sold. If a man has no one to redeem it but he later prospers and earns enough for its redemption, he is to calculate the value since he sold it and refund the balance to the man to whom he sold it; he can then go back to his own land. If he doesn’t get together enough money to repay him, what he sold remains in the possession of the buyer until the year of Jubilee. In the Jubilee it will be returned and he can go back and live on his land.

YAY! So wonderful and true! If only the government would limit debt like God said to do it and never take away someone's home and land and for taxes, no usury for citizens and everything else described here! Great Post!

yeshuaslavejeff · May 4, 2017

danstribe said:
If only the government would limit debt like God said to do it

YHWH set apart land for every family, free, never to be taken from the family ....

"the government" of man is much different - different kingdom, different master, different goals entirely.

Halbhh · May 4, 2017

danstribe said:
Why are there similarities? Why would the Sumerians seem to have written a story like Noah BEFORE Moses wrote it? ....

Beside my answer about propositions, about this story itself, the flood, one possible answer we cannot actually discount entirely is...well, that there was a flood. In fact, if there was a big flood that was very extensive, it would have to show up in other places as a recorded event in some manner.

But, about your other point, that the enemy who we know is also the deceiver will set up deceptions, we do know we can expect that of him, yes. I think one consequence of that is that we would only rarely be able to convince anyone by mere factual knowledge alone. Their best hope is to see Christ in the actions others or some other manner of being pulled to seek God.

danstribe · May 4, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
YHWH set apart land for every family, free, never to be taken from the family ....

"the government" of man is much different - different kingdom, different master, different goals entirely.

I know...but God's government will be established on earth as it is in Heaven when Christ returns and what you have written will again be the rule of law. Few people realize that our bankruptcy laws are loosely based on the principle of God's law of release every 7 years.

danstribe · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
Beside my answer about propositions, about this story itself, the flood, one possible answer we cannot actually discount entirely is...well, that there was a flood. In fact, if there was a big flood that was very extensive, it would have to show up in other places as a recorded event in some manner.

Yes and they recorded it with writing it on stone which would appear to be older than the text written by Moses but what Moses wrote was the true history.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 4, 2017

danstribe said:
I know...but God's government will be established on earth as it is in Heaven when Christ returns

As it was done in ACTS, Ephesians, Galatians, Corinth, etc etc etc among the people set apart to Him.

miknik5 · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
Beside my answer about propositions, about this story itself, the flood, one possible answer we cannot actually discount entirely is...well, that there was a flood. In fact, if there was a big flood that was very extensive, it would have to show up in other places as a recorded event in some manner.

But, about your other point, that the enemy who we know is also the deceiver will set up deceptions, we do know we can expect that of him, yes. I think one consequence of that is that we would only rarely be able to convince anyone by mere factual knowledge alone. Their best hope is to see Christ in the actions others or some other manner of being pulled to seek God.

How would the flood have shown up as a recorded event outside of GOD's revealing it through Moses?

danstribe · May 4, 2017

miknik5 said:
How would the flood have shown up as a recorded event outside of GOD's revealing it through Moses?

Because it happened to Noah and his progeny which is where the Sumerians came from. Noah's descendants went off and worshiped false gods and eventually lost the original story but put down in cuneiform tablets their version. Many many years later Moses wrote down the original version.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 4, 2017

miknik5 said:
How would the flood have shown up as a recorded event outside of GOD's revealing it through Moses?

Maybe on CNN or TBN ?
.
.
.

Colter · May 4, 2017

miknik5 said:
GOD supports the fact that we add "yeast" where "yeast" is not needed?

God gave us brains to use in detecting the yeast of the Pharisees.

In my theology Adam and Eve arrived on a previously populated, previously fallen earth. The beast was already evil, already fallen.

In a short time the worlds new spiritual rulers became impatient over the complex mess of the fallen earth. The crafty beast first tried to outflank Adam but couldn't, he then worked on Eve to convince her that mating with someone from outside the garden from among the Nodites (Cains real father) would infuse her superior genes into the human gene pool and bring about rapid a more improvement. But that was a big no-no!

Realizing what had happened Adam went out and did the same thing, the thought of being without Eve was more than he could bear. So he also sinned and shared her fate.

Sin is deliberate disloyalty to deity.

danstribe · May 4, 2017

Colter said:
God gave us brains to use in detecting the yeast of the Pharisees.

In my theology Adam and Eve arrived on a previously populated, previously fallen earth. The beast was already evil, already fallen.

In a short time the worlds new spiritual rulers became impatient over the complex mess of the fallen earth. The crafty beast first tried to outflank Adam but couldn't, he then worked on Eve to convince her that mating with someone from outside the garden from among the Nodites (Cains real father) would infuse her superior genes into the human gene pool and bring about rapid a more improvement. But that was a big no-no!

Realizing what had happened Adam went out and did the same thing, the thought of being without Eve was more than he could bear. So he also sinned and shared her fate.

Sin is deliberate disloyalty to deity.

"Sin is the transgression of God's Law." 1 John 3:4

yeshuaslavejeff · May 4, 2017

Colter said:
In my theology

at least you admit the leaven ...
yes, your theology totally opposed to God and His Word.

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