Pro-Choice IS NOT Pro-Abortion

There is no such thing as pro choice.

TX_Matt said:

Please go back and re-read the entire post without quote mining, cherry picking, or looking for arguing points because you all missed the point

I apologize that so many people were misunderstanding what I was saying. I was not saying that abortion is morally okay or that murder is okay, I was just presenting the most basic, fundamental pro-choice argument. I do not support abortion, I think it is wrong, and wish that it would nobody would ever have an abortion. The problem is that the goal to make it completely illegal is too entirely idealistic, if we overturn Roe v Wade, it's going to become a state's issue, and even if it did become illegal, it wouldn't end abortion. It will just become this sketchy, underground, and unsafe practice. A perfect metaphor for what will happen is what happened with the war on drugs or Prohibition in the 1920s, it did nothing to combat or get rid of the problem, but ultimately backfired and made it into a bigger problem.

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Just recently the government of Poland, a strongly Catholic nation, tried to propose a law to ban abortion. They dropped the proposal after massive street protests from the population especially the women.

tstor said:

Why? You can say "you are wrong" or that I have a "silly position," but you need to explain why. Or if you want to change my mind then you have to explain why.

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I very much did explain why, it doesn't logically follow. Just because I advocate for the freedom of something, does not mean I advocate for that something.

I can give countless examples if you want...

My wife has the freedom to burn my dinner every night if she so wishes, does not mean I'm pro-burnt dinner.

My son has the right to quit his job, does not mean I'm pro-quitting.

You have the right to squander all your money away, does not mean I'm pro-poverty.

You have the right to eat as much food as you want... does not make me pro-gluttony.

This is why your position is silly. Again, just because I advocate for the freedom to do something, does not mean I'm "pro" that something.

tstor said:

I am suggesting that God is not pro-murderer because he actively opposes murder through the spirit of the natural law (which is His work) and His justice. Those who are pro-choice do nothing to oppose murder and are, by extent, pro-murder.

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So if a Christian has an abortion and then asks forgiveness, what did God do to stop the abortion, and how did He oppose it through the "spirit of natural law". Please explain this further.

Life=gift from God.

Abortion=taking life.

There is my in depth presentation.

Tetra said:

I very much did explain why, it doesn't logically follow. Just because I advocate for the freedom of something, does not mean I advocate for that something.

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I'm glad I'm not the one explaining that on judgement day. "But Jesus, I didn't kill any babies. I just advocated for the rights of others to kill babies."

The Times said:

There is no such thing as pro choice.

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Perhaps a better word for "pro-life" would be "pro-birth" because a large number of these really do not care what happens after birth and in fact actively promote pro-death policies.

TX_Matt said:

Please go back and re-read the entire post without quote mining, cherry picking, or looking for arguing points because you all missed the point

I apologize that so many people were misunderstanding what I was saying. I was not saying that abortion is morally okay or that murder is okay, I was just presenting the most basic, fundamental pro-choice argument. I do not support abortion, I think it is wrong, and wish that it would nobody would ever have an abortion. The problem is that the goal to make it completely illegal is too entirely idealistic, if we overturn Roe v Wade, it's going to become a state's issue, and even if it did become illegal, it wouldn't end abortion. It will just become this sketchy, underground, and unsafe practice. A perfect metaphor for what will happen is what happened with the war on drugs or Prohibition in the 1920s, it did nothing to combat or get rid of the problem, but ultimately backfired and made it into a bigger problem.

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I didn't accuse you or think you were anything.

No cherry picking or quote mining (not sure what that is).

Terms were used and definitions and origins were supplied.

Over and out.

JayW said:

I'm glad I'm not the one explaining that on judgement day. "But Jesus, I didn't kill any babies. I just advocated for the rights of others to kill babies."

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So would you say that when God granted us the freedom to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, He was "pro" us disobeying Him?

God was clearly pro the freedom of choice.

Tetra said:

So would you say that when God granted us the freedom to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, He was "pro" us disobeying Him?

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You're not God.

Tetra said:

So would you say that when God granted us the freedom to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, He was "pro" us disobeying Him?

God was clearly pro the freedom of choice.

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I just did a post on freedom of choice.

JayW said:

You're not God.

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I never said I was. lol

I'm saying God was pro the freedom of choice... and He was because He granted it to us. That does not mean He was "pro" us disobeying Him.

Just because I am also "pro" the freedom of choice, does not mean I'm "pro" abortion.

GillDouglas said:

I just did a post on freedom of choice.

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I didn't see your post... but did your post suggest God was "pro" us disobeying Him, simply because He was pro the freedom of choice?

Tetra said:

I never said I was. lol

I'm saying God was pro the freedom of choice... and He was because He granted it to us. That does not mean He was "pro" us disobeying Him.

Just because I am also "pro" the freedom of choice, does not mean I'm "pro" abortion.

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Like I said, I wish you luck explaining that on judgement day.

Tetra said:

I didn't see your post... but did your post suggest God was "pro" us disobeying Him, simply because He was pro the freedom of choice?

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Its in the Soteriology section. The idea of 'freedom' is misunderstood, really. We are not autonomous creatures, we are subject to all kinds of laws and limitations. So the choices that we make are not entirely self-derived and self-sufficient.

GillDouglas said:

Its in the Soteriology section. The idea of 'freedom' is misunderstood, really. We are not autonomous creatures, we are subject to all kinds of laws and limitations. So the choices that we make are not entirely self-derived and self-sufficient.

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I understand your argument but I suspect your missing my point. God granted us the ability to choose to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, does that mean God was "pro" us disobeying Him?

God did not create robots.

We were given free will to voluntarily submit to His will. This is an act of complete love and submission. The free will we are given also allows us to reject Him and sin. There is no such thing as loving with out a choice not to love.

I don't think allowing something equals promoting it.

I'm a father. I provide love, support, guidance, direction rules, advice and punishment. My kids can still disobey, sin and break my heart.

As usual in threads on this topic, everyone has stated their position clearly but also as usual, no one has been influenced in the slightest in one way or the other. I think that I have made my last contribution to this thread. Go with God y'all.

381465 said:

God did not create robots.

We were given free will to voluntarily submit to His will. This is an act of complete love and submission. The free will we are given also allows us to reject Him and sin. There is no such thing as loving with out a choice not to love.

I don't think allowing something equals promoting it.

I'm a father. I provide love, support, guidance, direction rules, advice and punishment. My kids can still disobey, sin and break my heart.

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Agree'd, have fun explaining that to anyone else on this freaking thread!

Tetra said:

Agree'd, have fun explaining that to anyone else on this freaking thread!

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Not me. Too many other pools to pee in.