Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit

ml5363

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It has nothing to do with being labeled as "christian". Anyone can label themselves christian all day long, but unless that person becomes baptized with the holy spirit, being a "christian" is meaningless, because the baptism of the holy spirit is what frees from sin. But you can only be freed from sin if you actually stop breaking ALL the commands of God, in which case, then that person can receive the baptism of the holy spirit, and then it becomes impossible to ever sin again. Someone who claims to have the holy spirit, yet is still sinning, does not actually have the holy spirit.

Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God
No one is perfect, what about Paul, he said he presses toward the mark. Meaning a continual journey...he also said he dies daily...
 
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redleghunter

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Anyone who professes sinless perfection as a human being is committing the sin of PRIDE...
Romans 7 agrees.

Paul was speaking in the present tense. Which means the OP would conclude Paul was not baptized in the Spirit when writing the epistle.

Sinless perfection is not a new heresy :

The Heresy of Perfectionism
 
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Neogaia777

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Even if you could or did or have stopped sinning completely (which I very much doubt) but even if you could or did, if you have not love, perfect Godly Love, then it means nothing at all...

While those who are sinners and know they sin, but they are "repentant", and/but they have Godly Christlike Love, then love covers a multitude of sins...

The ones who think themselves sinless or that sinless perfection is achievable in this world and in theirs or others lives, except Christ only, are living under a deception from the enemy, and many of these do not have Godly Christlike Love...

We should approach our dealings with sin and getting better with it, by increasing and growing into Godly Love, and let that clear away the sin(s) as we grow in it, instead of our own effort to obey the letter of law and not it's spirit, which is, I believe "Love"...

God Bless!
 
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Ron Gurley

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"Peter / (Paul) did not sin...

Shirley you Jest!

In all history, past/present/future/, there has been only 1 "SINLESS ONE": Jesus the Divine Messiah!

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,
but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him. (IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS)

 
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Ron Gurley

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op: This study goes over:
1. why it is necessary to stop sinning,
2. which is what "repent" actually means,
3. what the circumcision of the heart is,
4. what the baptism of the holy spirit causes, and
5. the purpose of the first coming of Jesus Christ to not only atone for sin, but to end it.

And the answers to your OWN questions ARE??
 
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cgaviria

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"Peter / (Paul) did not sin...

Shirley you Jest!

In all history, past/present/future/, there has been only 1 "SINLESS ONE": Jesus the Divine Messiah!

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,
but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him. (IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS)

There's a difference between "sinless" and "perfected". The author of Hebrews speaks of those who have been "perfected",

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14 [ABP])

And even in these passages,

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Philippians 3:15 [KJV])

and congregation of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous, who have been made perfect, (Hebrews 12:23 [NETBIBLE])

But strong food belongs to those that are perfect, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:14 [JB2000])

Which relates to these passages,

We know that every one being engendered of God does not sin; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18 [ABP])

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6 [NASB])

Only Jesus Christ was "sinless", meaning he never sinned, but those who have become "perfected", were at one point sinners before becoming perfected to never sin again. That is the difference.
 
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Well, it is just silly to assume that we can just have a belief on Jesus and live in sin or for ourselves and expect to be right with God. It doesnt' work like that. God is good. He is not evil and He cannot agree with a person's thinking that they can do evil and be saved. Jesus's grace does not give us a license for immorality.

"For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 1:4 NIV).

How do they deny Christ?
See Titus 1:16 below.

The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously in this present world.

11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;." (Titus 2:11-12).

Here are some more verses for you to consider.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

And there are of course many more verses like these, as well.


Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).


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Shempster

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Seems like everybody's making this complicated.
The real big picture in this world is that there is a battle between the righteous and the wicked.
Being righteous simple means that your character is similar to Yeshua's, who was a true reflection of the Fathers character. So go read the sermon on the mount again. Its all about taking your mind off of yourself and towards others in love and charity.
The opposite position is being selfish, manipulating, greedy, boastful, jealous, hateful, and all of that. Those are the attributes of the evil one.

So it can be possible to live like this and in a sense, be sinless. If you never think an evil thought about another, if you never cheat others or lie to them, then you are walking in the spirit.
Repentance means to change directions. It means to take your mind off of yourself and just love other people. That is about it. The issue is ones character. Their motives and intentions.
When most people think of the word "sin" they include hundreds of little things that are socially looked down on. Most of us would be shunned for our normal mannerisms in other countries.
When you walk in the spirit fairly consistently, the Spirit himself will tell you what you can and cannot do.
 
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As for God's Laws:

Well, Christians do not look to the Old Testament to obey God's Commands. The Commands (as a whole) in the Old Covenant were given to Israel and they were not given to the church. Christians look to the Commands in the New Testament to obey God. For Christians are under the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant.

Also, the Old Law is not just the 10 Commandments. There were 613 Commands in the Old Covenant.
You cannot obey these Laws as a whole because the majority of them are no longer in effect anymore. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Yeah, but what about the moral laws within the Old Testament? Well, many of these laws were attached with laws on death penalties if you disobey them. However, this is not the case in the New Covenant. There are no laws on animal sacrifices anymore. For when Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn in the temple letting us know that Jesus is now our perfect sacrifice. Christians are not supposed to put new wine into old wine skins. We are not supposed to obey half of the Old and also the New. We obey only the New Testament Commands.


...
 
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A Biblical Defense of Sinless Perfectionism:

Sinless Perfectionism is the goal of our Sanctification. It is yet another Biblical doctrine that is commonly misunderstood and or denied amongst Eternal Security Proponents or those who do not believe that “Sin Cannot Separate a Believer From God.” Here is a...

List of Verses For Sinless Perfectionism (a.k.a. Entire Sanctification) in Scripture:
  1. The 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God. For John says, “And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.” (Revelation 14:3-5).

  2. Enoch was translated and did not see death because he walked with the LORD and pleased GOD. For the author of Hebrews says, “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.” (Hebrews 11:5); And Moses had written in the Torah, “And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” (Genesis 5:24).

  3. Jesus says, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48).

  4. GOD says, “Be ye holy as I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16 cf. Leviticus 11:45).

  5. Jesus said to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man that Jesus healed that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him. For Jesus said, “sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).

  6. Jesus says, “If you want to be perfect sell your possessions and give them to the poor” (Matthew 19:21).

  7. We are told in Scripture that he [i.e. anyone] that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. For Peter says, “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;” (1 Peter 4:1).

  8. Paul says, “And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24).

  9. James says, “If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2).

  10. Paul says, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13).

  11. David says, “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalms 119:11).

  12. Paul says, “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him” (Romans 6:6-8).

  13. Paul says, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12). John says, “sin not.” (1 John 2:1).

  14. Paul says, “For sin shall not have dominion over you.” (Romans 6:14).

  15. Paul says, “Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.” (Romans NLT). Jesus says, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. (John 8:34). John says he that sins is of the devil (1 John 1:8).

  16. Paul says, “You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.” (Romans 6:18 NIV).

  17. Paul says, “For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.” (Romans 6:20 BLB). Paul also says, “But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.” (Romans 6:22 ISV).

  18. Peter says, “there are false prophets... who cannot cease from sin.” (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). This is similar to those who are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of GOD (1 Timothy 3:1-9). For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him (1 John 2:4).

  19. Jesus says, “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41). What is the point of watching and praying so as not to be led into temptation if you are going to inevitably sin again?

  20. Paul says “Be ye angry, and sin not:” (Ephesians 4:26).

  21. John says, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

  22. John says,“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” (1 John 5:4). John also says, “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (1 John 2:16). For John says, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15).

  23. Paul says, “Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34).

  24. The author of Hebrews says, “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Hebrews 13:20-21).

  25. John says, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness” (1 John 5:18-19).

  26. Sinless Perfectionism is the goal for a believer’s life. For Paul says, “Not that I have already obtained it [this goal of being Christlike] or have already been made perfect, but I actively press on so that I may take hold of that [perfection] for which Christ Jesus took hold of me and made me His own.” (Philippians 3:12 AMP).

  27. Jesus says, “The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40).

  28. Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).

  29. Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

  30. James says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” (James 1:4). James also says, ““Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (James 2:22).

  31. Jesus says, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).

  32. Paul says, “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

  33. Paul says, “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,” (Ephesians 4:1).

  34. Paul says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4). Paul also says, “For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

  35. Zacharias says, “That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.” (Luke 1:74-75).

  36. Paul says, “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;” (Colossians 1:20-23).

  37. Paul says, “And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all men, even as we do for you. To this end may He establish your hearts to be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.” (1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 MEV).

  38. Paul says,“Men, brothers, I have conducted-myself with all good conscience before God up to this day” (Acts 23:1 DLNT)

  39. Paul says, “This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person [or the perfect Man; Christ], growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [ to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness ].” (Ephesians 4:13 EXB).

  40. Paul says, “It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ” (Colossians 1:28 NABRE).

  41. Paul says, “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2).

  42. Paul says, “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” (Colossians 2:11).

  43. Paul says, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

  44. The author Hebrews says, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

  45. Paul says, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:25-27). Jesus says, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19). For Jesus says, “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).

  46. John says, “For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).

  47. Paul says, “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

  48. Jesus says, “So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 22:10-13). A Multitude of People in Heaven says, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.(Revelation 19:7-8). Note: the fine linen that represents the righteousness of the saints is the same wedding garment that the man at the wedding did not have on.

  49. Paul says, “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15).

  50. John says, “But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

Real world example:

An alcoholic can condone his alcohol by him saying he can drink occasionally on his way to being sober free. But he will never be sober free because he has no intention of stopping. He is hoping one day somebody else will stop him.


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Xavier Cane

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This study goes over why it is necessary to stop sinning, which is what "repent" actually means, what the circumcision of the heart is, what the baptism of the holy spirit causes, and the purpose of the first coming of Jesus Christ to not only atone for sin, but to end it. The study can be found in English here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God or in Spanish here Arrepentimiento y No Pecar Más, Perfección y Nacido del Espíritu | Sabiduria de Dios , let us begin a discussion on this matter here.

Here is my contribution to the discussion:

You, sir, are sinning at this very moment. That is if you think you are sinnless and perfect. How, and what sin are you sinning? It is called self-righteousness. There are no perfect Christians on this side of the grave. We strive for perfection, but we never attain it. The God who lives within us is perfect, but due to the Sin nature still abiding in the Christian believer, there will always be a raging war. After Pauls conversion, he was not perfect, and he could not live for God the way he wanted to. Read Romans Chapter 7. Heck, read the entire bible. God never says that we will be perfect on this side of the grave. And whenever the term perfect is used, it is used to declare maturity, spiritual growth if you will.

No man can turn from their sins unless they have something inside of them that helps them, which is God the Holy Spirit. Thus repentance is not turning away, but it is a change in mindset that says "God you are right and I am wrong, Help" - That's repentance. At least biblical. You can't turn away from evil if there is no power in you. That's why Jesus had to pay the price. Mankind had to way to turn to God, because his nature is totally opposed to God. Hence, repent cannot mean to turn, but rather to change our thinking from self to God.

If you were honest with yourself, you would know that you sin every day, even if you don't know it. God is completely Holy, He cares about every small detail, which means there are things wrong with us that God does not even reveal to us because we are not yet prepared to handle it. For example, did you get an attitude this week? That's sin. Did you eat a bit too much? That's a sin. Did you go over the speed limit on the road? That's a sin if you did, because it is a man-made law, which God himself honors because He established the government system. Are you in any type of debt? Well my friend, sometimes debt is a sin.

Any man who says he has no sin is a liar, and the truth is not in him...

Sanctification is a process on earth, even though in Gods eyes we are already perfect. How? Because Christ is perfect, and we are in him, literally. In His person, and He is in us through the Spirit of God.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is for service to God, not so that we can live a victorious life. We were given that power at the rebirth when we first get saved by faith. Baptism of the Spirit is a separate work of Grace. When were are first saved, we are baptized into Christ (not water) by the person of the Holy Spirit. At the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Jesus christ is the baptizer and we are baptized into the Holy Spirit. It is like this, one is like drinking a glass of water, while the other is likened unto being dumped into a pool, that pool being the Holy Spirit


People have made God out to be some taskmaster waiting for you to break the rules so he can punish you. Oh how I wish the church would turn from their self-righteousness and turn to God.

Did you know to claim a denomination is a sin? How? Why is the Church divided over how to get saved? God's not. Why is the church divided over speaking in other tongues? God's not divided on the issue. Why is the church divided over water baptism as a means of salvation? Gods not confused or divided on any issue. Not salvation, which is totally by faith (no water needed, water has no saving grace), not on anything, but the church is divided, yet they claim to be spirit lead. How foolish. God is not divided, but the church is. Wait...I though the church was to be led by the Spirit? If these churches are so lead by Him, then why are they yet divided? I will tell you why, it is the source of all sin, the source from which this post originated - The sin of Pride.

How do I know all of this? Well I had a few run-ins with false teaching, and praise God I am delivered, and now know the true Gospel of Christ. Praise God for the Spirit of God which will lead into all truth, but pride will lead astray.
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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The wide gate belief is that you can have God and you can also live for yourself and or sin on some level, too. A belief in Jesus is all one needs supposedly to be saved.

However, usually if something sounds like it is too good to be true, chances are it isn't true.
Paul says work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Why all the fear and trembling if you got your guaranteed golden ticket to Heaven?


...
 
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Xavier Cane

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As for God's Laws:

Well, Christians do not look to the Old Testament to obey God's Commands. The Commands (as a whole) in the Old Covenant were given to Israel and they were not given to the church. Christians look to the Commands in the New Testament to obey God. For Christians are under the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant.

Also, the Old Law is not just the 10 Commandments. There were 613 Commands in the Old Covenant.
You cannot obey these Laws as a whole because the majority of them are no longer in effect anymore. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Yeah, but what about the moral laws within the Old Testament? Well, many of these laws were attached with laws on death penalties if you disobey them. However, this is not the case in the New Covenant. There are no laws on animal sacrifices anymore. For when Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn in the temple letting us know that Jesus is now our perfect sacrifice. Christians are not supposed to put new wine into old wine skins. We are not supposed to obey half of the Old and also the New. We obey only the New Testament Commands.


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If you try to live by the law, you will be judged by the law, and you will be found guilty as all have been. If it were possible to keep just the simple 10 (which all the other are built) then Christ would not have had to die for our sins. You are either under law or under grace. It cannot be both. Either accept what Christ did and live in him, or try to live by the commandments, but it will cost you your soul. Why? Because it is spiritual adultery. It says that Gods sacrifice was not enough, and now I have to keep these 10 commands. All true believers are law keepers because our faith is in the one who kept it perfectly. Which is why we can say that we keep the commandments, all of them and all the time, even if one is broken, like a "white lie" lol.
 
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cgaviria

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Here is my contribution to the discussion:

You, sir, are sinning at this very moment. That is if you think you are sinnless and perfect. How, and what sin are you sinning? It is called self-righteousness. There are no perfect Christians on this side of the grave. We strive for perfection, but we never attain it. The God who lives within us is perfect, but due to the Sin nature still abiding in the Christian believer, there will always be a raging war. After Pauls conversion, he was not perfect, and he could not live for God the way he wanted to. Read Romans Chapter 7. Heck, read the entire bible. God never says that we will be perfect on this side of the grave. And whenever the term perfect is used, it is used to declare maturity, spiritual growth if you will.

No man can turn from their sins unless they have something inside of them that helps them, which is God the Holy Spirit. Thus repentance is not turning away, but it is a change in mindset that says "God you are right and I am wrong, Help" - That's repentance. At least biblical. You can't turn away from evil if there is no power in you. That's why Jesus had to pay the price. Mankind had to way to turn to God, because his nature is totally opposed to God. Hence, repent cannot mean to turn, but rather to change our thinking from self to God.

If you were honest with yourself, you would know that you sin every day, even if you don't know it. God is completely Holy, He cares about every small detail, which means there are things wrong with us that God does not even reveal to us because we are not yet prepared to handle it. For example, did you get an attitude this week? That's sin. Did you eat a bit too much? That's a sin. Did you go over the speed limit on the road? That's a sin if you did, because it is a man-made law, which God himself honors because He established the government system. Are you in any type of debt? Well my friend, sometimes debt is a sin.

Any man who says he has no sin is a liar, and the truth is not in him...

Sanctification is a process on earth, even though in Gods eyes we are already perfect. How? Because Christ is perfect, and we are in him, literally. In His person, and He is in us through the Spirit of God.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is for service to God, not so that we can live a victorious life. We were given that power at the rebirth when we first get saved by faith. Baptism of the Spirit is a separate work of Grace. When were are first saved, we are baptized into Christ (not water) by the person of the Holy Spirit. At the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Jesus christ is the baptizer and we are baptized into the Holy Spirit. It is like this, one is like drinking a glass of water, while the other is likened unto being dumped into a pool, that pool being the Holy Spirit


People have made God out to be some taskmaster waiting for you to break the rules so he can punish you. Oh how I wish the church would turn from their self-righteousness and turn to God.

Did you know to claim a denomination is a sin? How? Why is the Church divided over how to get saved? God's not. Why is the church divided over speaking in other tongues? God's not divided on the issue. Why is the church divided over water baptism as a means of salvation? Gods not confused or divided on any issue. Not salvation, which is totally by faith (no water needed, water has no saving grace), not on anything, but the church is divided, yet they claim to be spirit lead. How foolish. God is not divided, but the church is. Wait...I though the church was to be led by the Spirit? If these churches are so lead by Him, then why are they yet divided? I will tell you why, it is the source of all sin, the source from which this post originated - The sin of Pride.

How do I know all of this? Well I had a few run-ins with false teaching, and praise God I am delivered, and now know the true Gospel of Christ. Praise God for the Spirit of God which will lead into all truth, but pride will lead astray.

How sad that you would call someone who is "free from sin" self-righteous. It would be like calling someone who has been liberated from prison an arrogant person because they say they have been freed. This is precisely why there is so much sin in your churches, because you do not allow anyone to escape the clutches of sin, by your doctrine that no one can be freed of sin, which on the contrary, the scriptures indicate this is so by power of the holy spirit. Read this other response I made, that you may understand the difference between sinless and perfected,
There's a difference between "sinless" and "perfected". The author of Hebrews speaks of those who have been "perfected",

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14[ABP])

And even in these passages,

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Philippians 3:15 [KJV])

and congregation of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous, who have been made perfect, (Hebrews 12:23 [NETBIBLE])

But strong food belongs to those that are perfect, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:14 [JB2000])

Which relates to these passages,

We know that every one being engendered of God does not sin; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18 [ABP])

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6 [NASB])

Only Jesus Christ was "sinless", meaning he never sinned, but those who have become "perfected", were at one point sinners before becoming perfected to never sin again. That is the difference.
 
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If you try to live by the law, you will be judged by the law, and you will be found guilty as all have been. If it were possible to keep just the simple 10 (which all the other are built) then Christ would not have had to die for our sins. You are either under law or under grace. It cannot be both. Either accept what Christ did and live in him, or try to live by the commandments, but it will cost you your soul. Why? Because it is spiritual adultery. It says that Gods sacrifice was not enough, and now I have to keep these 10 commands. All true believers are law keepers because our faith is in the one who kept it perfectly. Which is why we can say that we keep the commandments, all of them and all the time, even if one is broken, like a "white lie" lol.

Sorry. You are not a law keeper if you break God's Law. A belief on Jesus does not make you a Law keeper. Be not deceived he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7). He that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8); And all who do evil hate that light (John 3:20).

Also,

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

In addition, when Paul spoke out against the Law he was referring to the 613 Laws of Moses (i.e. the Old Testament Laws as a whole). It is why Paul condemned circumcision alongside talking about the "law." Circumcision is a part of the Commands in the Old Testament and they are not a part of the Commands in the New Testament. Paul was not against obeying God's Commands under the New Testament.

Paul says if any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Paul says you can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

The author of Hebrews says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).
This lines up with what Jesus said on the Sermon on the Mount.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God (Matthew 5:8).


...
 
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RaymondG

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You, sir, are sinning at this very moment. That is if you think you are sinnless and perfect. How, and what sin are you sinning? It is called self-righteousness. There are no perfect Christians on this side of the grave.

The author never said he was sinless or that he considered himself one of the ones who was baptized in the holy spirit. I asked him twice on 2 of his threads and he didnt answer either time. So I have to assume that he is just stating what he believes....just like the rest of people who study and teach before making it. I find no fault in it.
 
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