What I LOVE and HATE about the Orthodox Church! (From a Protestant)

Jack Isaacks said:

There is an old Christian proverb that says, "He who does not claim the Church as his mother cannot have God for his father."

Christ is risen!

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I think that is St Cyprian of Carthage

ArmyMatt said:

but that is not all that Scripture says, and how do you know you are reading it right? how do you know it was intended to be that simple, and how do you know you are gaining the proper intent? nowhere in Scripture does it ever say to only read.

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Actually it goes us one better than "just reading" It's written in my/our hearts...even better.

Kenny'sID said:

Actually it goes us one better than "just reading" It's written in my/our hearts...even better.

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but since the Scripture says not to trust the heart, how do you know? what standard do you have to know you are listening to the Holy Spirit, and not yourself or something demonic?

Jack Isaacks said:

There is an old Christian proverb that says, "He who does not claim the Church as his mother cannot have God for his father."

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A biblical proverb?

Kenny'sID said:

A biblical proverb?

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no, early Church. 200's by St Cyprian of Carthage

ArmyMatt said:

but since the Scripture says not to trust the heart, how do you know? what standard do you have to know you are listening to the Holy Spirit, and not yourself or something demonic?

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Show me the scripture you refer to so I can see it in context. But at best here we have a conundrum, since the bible also says it's written in our hearts...does it not?

But back to the basic question, I know bwcause I have both the bibhle and my heart...we were given both for a reason.

As to what you are slowly getting at, if you are going to tell me there is scripture on not trusting the heart, don't you also think it fair to bring up all the scripture on not trusting man?

ArmyMatt said:

no, early Church. 200's by St Cyprian of Carthage

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Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't think it was biblical.

Kenny'sID said:

I don't concern myself with things like that one way or another, as in who my faith is mostly like or not. I keep it simple and just believe in the God of the bible. I find for the most part, it's a lot less complicated than man can sometimes, or even tends to make it.

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No, you clearly don't believe in the Bible, since in the Paul is adamant about shunning those who preach a different doctrine than the Apostles, he says they are enemies of Christ and you should not even eat with them.

Constantine the Sinner said:

No, you clearly don't believe in the Bible, since in the Paul is adamant about shunning those who preach a different doctrine than the Apostles, he says they are enemies of Christ and you should not even eat with them.

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I checked for stickies on this forum for rules it may be one of those threads where we aren't allowed to disagree, and saw nothing. Before I go on, I'm going to need to be clear on that? And if it is, could someone please point out where it is written so I can find it for myself the next time?

Kenny'sID said:

Show me the scripture you refer to so I can see it in context.

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Jeremiah 17.

Kenny'sID said:

But at best here we have a conundrum, since the bible also says it's written in our hearts...does it not?

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what is written on the heart?

Kenny'sID said:

But back to the basic question, I know bwcause I have both the bibhle and my heart...we were given both for a reason.

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Scripture does not say this.

Kenny'sID said:

As to what you are slowly getting at, if you are going to tell me there is scripture on not trusting the heart, don't you also think it fair to bring up all the scripture on not trusting man?

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you are right, don't trust man, but you can trust the Church which Christ Himself says is the pillar and ground of truth

Also, if it is one this is in one of the forums I mentioned in my last post, you all will need to start a thread in an area that levels that playing field if you wan to continue this conversation...that is if you think you're up to it..

If this is a no disagree thread, and you choose not to start another, we'll have to end this at the last post I quoted because it's going to get stinky.

Kenny'sID said:

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't think it was biblical.

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the quote is not, but the concept is. it is what you see in Acts. one Church, and people joining it even after they come to believe. no one is on their own with a Bible trusting in himself

Kenny'sID said:

Also, if it is one this is in one of the forums I mentioned in my last post, you all will need to start a thread in an area that levels that playing field if you wan to continue this conversation...that is if you think you're up to it..

If this is a no disagree thread, and you choose not to start another, we'll have to end this at the last post I quoted because it's going to get stinky.

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that is what St Justin's is for, if you are up to it I am

ArmyMatt said:

that is what St Justin's is for

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I don't know what that is? Are you saying all is a go in this thread?

I'll check back later, if a new thread turns out to be necessary and someone chooses to start it, just put a link here to it, please, otherwise this will be the last I will be able to post here on the subject.

Kenny'sID said:

I don't know what that is? Are you saying all is a go in this thread?

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no, haha, we have a debate forum on here called St Justin's corner. but you are good so far, since we are discussing and not debating. if you want to debate, just post a thread in St Justin's. I would be interested in your responses to what I wrote.

Again, not here, I gave my reasons why this is fixing to turn bad (not really bad in a since it's wrong), but that was just due to one post. On the others I'm having to hold back, and that's not good. Up to you all as I mentioned, that is if you are interested in continuing.

I've been unfairly corralled into problems before where people push for answers them wham, but not accusing anyone here of that, just saying, it's happened before.

I am interested, which is why I said to move to St Justin's, or you could PM me with your responses to my last points

Because I suspect there may be some confusion: Kenny, you may debate Orthodox understanding, not in this thread, but you may start a thread here: St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr

We can always request this thread get moved to St Justin's. It would be easier to continue on within a the same thread rather than simply start a new one, and I think the same level of fellowship can be maintained whereas a new thread would likely start out a bit differently.