Is Casting Lots Divination?

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
23,277
5,237
45
Oregon
✟952,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Please explain
I won't have sex with anyone till were married now, cause it's permissible and even encouraged within that framework... But, otherwise it's sin, but not if done in the marriage arrangement...

God Bless!
 
Upvote 0

Keath

Active Member
Apr 21, 2017
104
35
Ft Lauderdale
✟12,260.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Firstly I hope this is in the correct forum.
I have two passages that seem to be in conflict.
The first one forbids a practice and the second one seems to show the apostles practicing what is forbidden.

Can anyone clarify this for me?


Deuteronomy 18:10. "Let no-one be found among you who practices......divination."

Acts 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles"
I think the heart of 'divination' in the Bible is the seeking guidance outside of the Holy Spirit. He is called 'Holy' because the assumption must be that there are other types of spirits (unclean, unholy, false, deceiving, lying, etc.). The OT High Priest's used the Urim and Thurim (sp?) to seek the Lord's guidance. This was done in the framework of the Temple and the Holy Spirit. The disciples using 'lots', within the framework of Christ-centered prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit, seems not-unacceptable. Even Solomon mentions, tossing a coin can resolve a dispute even between kings; and in another place, "man casts the lot, but the Lord determines the outcome"
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't think it is divination in the sense commonly thought of. It's about taking the human element out of a choice.
Well said, I agree. Another argument is that in casting lots, one is not appealing to unseen powers - one is instead simply allowing "random chance" to determine the outcome. And that approach seems eminently reasonable in many situations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreekOrthodox
Upvote 0

Keath

Active Member
Apr 21, 2017
104
35
Ft Lauderdale
✟12,260.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Thanks. I'll check, because I don't think Jonah participated in the time of lots. Here is what has
bugged me in the past and still does as to the time of
Joseph.

Genesis 44:5

Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing.”

Genesis 44:15

“And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?”
It has never been clear to me; was Joseph truly using his cup for divination, or was he simply play-acting the role of the false-god loving Egyptian that his brothers would have expected? I lean toward the latter.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
I won't have sex with anyone till were married now, cause it's permissible and even encouraged within that framework... But, otherwise it's sin, but not if done in the marriage arrangement...

God Bless!
Right, I agree totally. Fornication (forbidden sex, such as sex outside of marriage) is a sin. Were you saying that this sin is different than other sins, or did I misunderstand you?
 
Upvote 0

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
23,277
5,237
45
Oregon
✟952,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Right, I agree totally. Fornication (forbidden sex, such as sex outside of marriage) is a sin. Were you saying that this sin is different than other sins, or did I misunderstand you?
Yes, in that it's not considered a sin inside the marriage arrangement... Not many other sins are known to sinful under these conditions and not under these, in that way, different...
 
Upvote 0

Winken

Heimat
Supporter
Sep 24, 2010
5,709
3,505
✟168,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Firstly I hope this is in the correct forum.
I have two passages that seem to be in conflict.
The first one forbids a practice and the second one seems to show the apostles practicing what is forbidden.

Can anyone clarify this for me?


Deuteronomy 18:10. "Let no-one be found among you who practices......divination."

Acts 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles"
The explanation has to do with "rightly dividing the Word of Truth," 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. Both of these passages were directed to a single audience, the Jews. The OT reference is obvious in Deuteronomy. In Acts, the Apostles and disciples had not yet understood the "mystery" revealed by the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 3): not works, but Grace for all. Paul sought to clarify that for the Jews in Acts 13:43-44; Acts 14, as "no Jew, no Gentile" (Galatians 3:28) came into focus for everyone.

2 Timothy 2:15 solves a multitude of problems we have in identifying and developing context: Who was the passage directed to (the audience)? What was its purpose? Where did the event occur?

A Christian does not consult Deuteronomy for instructions/imperatives. The specific reference in Acts is not directed specifically to Christians.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

PanDeVida

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2007
878
339
✟42,102.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I posted a thread on this a while back, but can't find it now...

I forgot what they concluded, if they did...

You notice, God had another choosing in mind, perhaps under the new covenant, Paul...

God Bless!

Neo, God indeed has Chosen Paul, however St. Paul, is not to be among the counted 12 Apostles.

Notice what St Peter appointed two, Joseph, Called Barsabas, and Matthias, because they have witnessed and Accompanied the 12 and Jesus from the beginning of Baptism John until the day of the Lords resurrection.

St. Paul could not have been Chosen to be part of the literal 12 Apostles because St. Paul, did not witness miracles nor was he there at the resurrection nor was he there when the Lord Ascended into Heaven. (Read Acts1:21 -26 Below)


Acts 1: 21Wherefore of these men who have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, 22Beginning from the baptism of John, until the day wherein he was taken up from us, one of these MUST be made a witness with us of his resurrection. 23And they appointed two, Joseph, called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place. 26And they gave them lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Neo, St. Peter, and the rest of the Apostles were correct, the Apostles listening to St.Peter, and praying to the Holy Spirit, and the lot fell upon Matthias.

Jesus Christ, Left His Church founded on Rock, to chose by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Matthias. The Church on Rock has the Keys to bind and loose anything. Amen Amen

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I casting lots is NOT forbidden in the bible. Out of 70 occurrences in the OT it's mostly positive. The priests of the temple many times cast lots to determine their duties.
The forbidding part is about playing games to tempt God or contact demons or like the Romans who cast lots as a form of gambling with wagers.
 
Upvote 0

PanDeVida

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2007
878
339
✟42,102.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Firstly I hope this is in the correct forum.
I have two passages that seem to be in conflict.
The first one forbids a practice and the second one seems to show the apostles practicing what is forbidden.

Can anyone clarify this for me?


Deuteronomy 18:10. "Let no-one be found among you who practices......divination."

Acts 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles"

David, What the Apostles did by Casting Lots re: Barsabas and Matthias to see who take Judas the betrayers place, is not wrong and it was pleasing to God and the Holy Spirit answered the 11 Apostles by Choosing Matthias.

David, God does not contradict Himself. Deuteronomy 18:10 is not what the Apostles did, they did not practice divinations. The Apostles sought the Holy Spirit for Guidance.

David, like the Apostles, the Catholic Church does the same when they Choose the Next Pope, because the Catholic Church Bishops/Cardinal/Priests are the successors of the Apostles.
 
Upvote 0

Jezmeyah

member since 7-14-16
Jul 14, 2016
401
200
Indiana
✟32,170.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Firstly I hope this is in the correct forum.
I have two passages that seem to be in conflict.
The first one forbids a practice and the second one seems to show the apostles practicing what is forbidden.

Can anyone clarify this for me?

Deuteronomy 18:10. "Let no-one be found among you who practices......divination."
Those who would do that, would not be seeking God's response. It's relying on a pagan demonic response.
Acts 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles"
To answer it, I have to ask this question.

Are there not other religious books (Bibles) that people consult? And Judeo-Christians have the Bible by which to consult God's will.

The pagan's made their sacrifices to their idols, and the Jews made their sacrifices to God.

Jesus tells God's people not to pray like the pagans do. Yet Jesus prays to God.

So, that is what is going on with Deut. vs Acts. It's not about the methods used, it's about who the methods are directed to. The casting of lots was done as a normal method in the Old Testament to gain the direction of God concerning an issue when a prophet who could hear God was not available.

Since the Messianic Jews had accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then no Old Testament adhering Jew would be approached to know God's will for the Messianic Jews. So the only remaining avenue that they had was the casting of lots.

It should be noticed that after the day of Pentecost, no apostle cast lots in order to know the will of God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AspieforGod

My Brother is Jesus!
Apr 16, 2017
72
92
Exeter
✟11,790.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Firstly I hope this is in the correct forum.
I have two passages that seem to be in conflict.
The first one forbids a practice and the second one seems to show the apostles practicing what is forbidden.

Can anyone clarify this for me?


Deuteronomy 18:10. "Let no-one be found among you who practices......divination."

Acts 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles"

Divination as in fortune telling, talking to the dead and tarot.

The Jews often cast lots for things in Scripture and custom they would use straws and then ask God to pick from the small group they had selected, why they had to draw lots to begin with and not just trust God in the first place who knows. Humanity getting in it's own way as usual.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
why they had to draw lots to begin with and not just trust God in the first place who knows. Humanity getting in it's own way as usual.
I believe this was directed by YHWH to the people He was training.
His people,
set apart from the other nations,
and
perhaps to anyone on earth who was seeking Him.

The casting of the lots was more reliable and true
than
people's thoughts, feelings , emotions and so on (which are usually wrong!)

Later, today, it is still few who seek God.
 
Upvote 0

AspieforGod

My Brother is Jesus!
Apr 16, 2017
72
92
Exeter
✟11,790.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I believe this was directed by YHWH to the people He was training.
His people,
set apart from the other nations,
and
perhaps to anyone on earth who was seeking Him.

The casting of the lots was more reliable and true
than
people's thoughts, feelings , emotions and so on (which are usually wrong!)

Later, today, it is still few who seek God.

Lots, emotions, all vanity.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Yes, in that it's not considered a sin inside the marriage arrangement... Not many other sins are known to sinful under these conditions and not under these, in that way, different...
Is there any sin that you can think of that is not simply a perversion of what is good? CS Lewis used to say that the Devil had no creativity-- he couldn't think of a single truly original sin, but simply took what was good, and tempted us to do it in the wrong way, or with the wrong person, or at the wrong time, or in the wrong place. For example, it is perfectly right to take someone else's stuff if you have permission (a gift, borrowing it, buying it) but if you don't have permission it is stealing.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

konan

Member
Apr 21, 2017
14
3
65
kansas
✟7,940.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Firstly I hope this is in the correct forum.
I have two passages that seem to be in conflict.
The first one forbids a practice and the second one seems to show the apostles practicing what is forbidden.

Can anyone clarify this for me?


Deuteronomy 18:10. "Let no-one be found among you who practices......divination."

Acts 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles"
I think divination in thus context is seeking know ledge by supernatural means not chance
 
Upvote 0