Can I come back ?

mikeforjesus · Apr 16, 2017

Jezmeyah said:
It says in John 6:51 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

The bread which the disciples were about to partake of is representative of his (at that time) upcoming crucifixion. It is similar to the meal of lamb which God instructed the Jews to eat at Passover before they would leave Egypt.
When John the Baptist looked at Jesus, he said "Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world."

Thus John 6:51 is not concerning the sacrament of communion for those already saved, but it's concerning salvation through Christ unto those who are not saved.

Be mindful that there is no distinction in any text of whether catholic means saved and protestant means not saved, for catholicism was not in place during the ministry of Jesus, nor during the lives of the 11 apostles- of those who wrote the epistles.

In fact, in all the New Testament there is no mention of any particular denomination, but only God's truth. Therefore the Bible is not Catholic truth, nor is it Protestant truth. (this is the main reason why I do not give my denomination in my profile, but rather I give the designation of Christian.. because the Bible states that there is no distinction of Jew or Gentile., it follows that there would be no distinction of denomination either; but all believers are in Christ).

Therefore, look at the bare bones of God's word, and not through the fully dressed denominational clothing that each denomination dresses God's word with.

The actual eating of Christ's flesh is not pictured in the text or in any text. But rather the partaking of the gospel where eating is compared to receiving which is compared to humbling ones thoughts to God's word of truth.

It says in Jeremiah 15:16 "Your words were found and I ate them, and Your words became for me a joy and delight of my heart."
It says in James 1:21 "In humility receive the implanted word which is able to save your soul."
It says in Proverbs 3:5 "Lean not to your own understanding but trust in the Lord with all your heart, acknowledge Him in all your ways, and He shall direct your path."

It says in Ps.50:23 "To him who orders his way aright I will show the salvation of God."
It says in Isa.53:2 "For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot."
It says in Mat.18:3 "Truly I tell you," He said, "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
It says in Jerem.17:7 "Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD and whose trust is the LORD. For he will be like a tree planted by the water."
It says in Isa.53:2 "And (He grew up) like a root out of parched ground."
It says in Jerem.17:8 "(the blessed man is like a tree) That extends its roots by a stream and will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought nor cease to yield fruit."

It is okay to believe this but it could be the sacraments are needed to bring us to heaven upon passing this earth. Otherwise why am I orthodox?

Jezmeyah · Apr 16, 2017

mikeforjesus said:
It is okay to believe this but it could be the sacraments are needed to bring us to heaven upon passing this earth. Otherwise why am I orthodox?

You being orthodox is without your saying it, being a catholic. The true orthodox is being in Christ and thus, without a specific denomination. The designation that you are using, is a divisive distinction of yours that you practice while at the same time you, by your posts in this thread, are desiring unity with Protestants.

But no true unity can be achieved as long as you call your catholic doctrine 'orthodox'. And in doing so, you are stating that what you believe to be 'true unity'.. that all Protestants become Catholic. However, that is elevating your doctrine.. not exalting Christ, the Savior of both catholics and protestants; and all the world.

The (catholic) sacraments of communion are given for those catholics at the closeness of their death? Just in case they didn't go see a priest and repent for sins committed that day.

For the protestant, (I presume concerning different protestant denominations) they as gathered members have monthly communion.
But each Christian may also at any time in their own home take communion, but it's not necessarily required upon each time of prayer in repenting for sins.
Neither is a priest required to be present when approaching God in prayer (whether on one's death bed or not). For the apostles Paul and Peter wrote that all believers are priests unto God.

What is written in the Bible.. is the orthodox.

miknik5 · Apr 16, 2017

mikeforjesus said:
I think I have troubled people with Jesus words unless you eat My flesh you have no life in you to mean Protestants may never be saved or have a chance at being worthy of a reward but I have given a good reasoning for believing as orthodox we should accept Protestants. I know in my conscience it is wrong to cast doubt in Protestants ability to be saved because I may hinder the gospel for people who may even be close to death who can doubt Christianity because there are too many denominations claiming to be the way who are offended by disunity and the bad representation orthodox give of God
How can I come back to God as He said you can not go back to Him without reconciling with others (I mean in terms of reward as you can still be saved but not if you refuse reconciliation from unforgiveness and those in your faith )? Do you forgive me my rebellion ?I can say I insist and hold to death Protestants can be saved but you may not believe me and you may think I will change my mind. So how do I cancel this negative effect ? I can not be Protestant but a Christian who believes in unity of all believers because I can not get out of my mind you need to be baptised and/or born of water to be saved and eat His flesh but I believe Protestants can be forgiven in the age to come so I would still have to be orthodox and I think the Holy Spirit within me supports unity because of my conscience. Our conscience will accuse or excuse us in the day of Jesus

My defense for it being proper to accept Protestants is in the link below

Christian blog: Church ristianity

Anyway how do I cancel my negative affect on others of allowing those views not within my conscience to affect me. How do I get them to forgive me by not being offended anymore from me. I am willing to say I hold to death Christian unity but you may think I will return to those extremist views which make the path more narrow than it is which is in Jesus.

Also I would like your views on below
Christian blog: Knowing you are a Christian

The greatest is a servant to all

We are all at different levels in our walk

But we are all of ONE BODY

If what one does is done in faith to honor THE LORD, then one does not sin

Don't put an obstacle before a brother whose conscience is weak
And to the brother whose conscience does not betray him do not suggest he is sinning

Have your faith to yourself and the ONE whom you look to serve

Don't judge the Masters servant
The Master will judge HIS own

Goodbook · Apr 17, 2017

mikeforjesus said:
I think I have troubled people with Jesus words unless you eat My flesh you have no life in you to mean Protestants may never be saved or have a chance at being worthy of a reward but I have given a good reasoning for believing as orthodox we should accept Protestants. I know in my conscience it is wrong to cast doubt in Protestants ability to be saved because I may hinder the gospel for people who may even be close to death who can doubt Christianity because there are too many denominations claiming to be the way who are offended by disunity and the bad representation orthodox give of God
How can I come back to God as He said you can not go back to Him without reconciling with others (I mean in terms of reward as you can still be saved but not if you refuse reconciliation from unforgiveness and those in your faith )? Do you forgive me my rebellion ?I can say I insist and hold to death Protestants can be saved but you may not believe me and you may think I will change my mind. So how do I cancel this negative effect ? I can not be Protestant but a Christian who believes in unity of all believers because I can not get out of my mind you need to be baptised and/or born of water to be saved and eat His flesh but I believe Protestants can be forgiven in the age to come so I would still have to be orthodox and I think the Holy Spirit within me supports unity because of my conscience. Our conscience will accuse or excuse us in the day of Jesus

My defense for it being proper to accept Protestants is in the link below

Christian blog: Christianity

Anyway how do I cancel my negative affect on others of allowing those views not within my conscience to affect me. How do I get them to forgive me by not being offended anymore from me. I am willing to say I hold to death Christian unity but you may think I will return to those extremist views which make the path more narrow than it is which is in Jesus.

Also I would like your views on below
Christian blog: Knowing you are a Christian

Well i havent read your blog but if you want to fellowship with others that are not in your group go visit their churches and have communion or make an effort to invite those who arent oriental othodox to your church. Extend the right hand of fellowship and welcome them as brothers and sisters.

dzheremi · Apr 17, 2017

MikeforJesus: Do you have any objections to having this thread/question moved to a more appropriate subforum, like the OO forum or the Traditional Theology forum? I mean no disrespect to our non-Orthodox friends, but what they are posting is absolutely not in line with the faith that we are to uphold, as you correctly understand in post #41. We are neither Roman Catholics by another name, nor allowed to take communion in churches with which we are not actually in communion.

There is asking for advice in a particular situation, as you have done, and there is taking that question as a reason to debate that which is not up for debate. These things are not up for debate.

mikeforjesus · Apr 17, 2017

No I would be glad if it can be moved to another forum particularly the traditional theology forum. I have never had communion in another church. If I can't debate these things I don't care to be in the church since the church may often neglects my problems and concerns and I have doubts that need to be addressed. I am not going to let any person control my conscience. I feel I am sinning to turn nearly everyone off from God because we can't even say to one who wants to be orthodox to help the strength of orthodoxy to help other Christians their faithful Christian parent who passed could have been saved because we can't even say for sure Christians outside the church who don't hate it are saved who are outside because they want to save others souls and make them righteous and spread hope of salvation to them and therefore not grief. Because God actually accepts Protestants but we may hinder them from believing God. Maybe it is time I leave orthodoxy if that is not accepted
I have yet to be convinced of orthodoxy and to see it as a just and beautiful message. But I do not think it is right to tell me to go to another church to have communion. I don't need to have communion to know it is the truth the Holy Spirit fell on cornelius to tell him it is the truth and to get baptised.
Maybe I did not want to debate anyway but just to get help which involved discussion if you define debate as not being open to changing your view but to defend and teach it as right

miknik5 · Apr 17, 2017

mikeforjesus said:
No I would be glad if it can be moved to another forum particularly the traditional theology forum. I have never had communion in another church. If I can't debate these things I don't care to be in the church since the church may often neglects my problems and concerns and I have doubts that need to be addressed. I am not going to let any person control my conscience. I feel I am sinning to turn nearly everyone off from God because we can't even say to one who wants to be orthodox to help the strength of orthodoxy to help other Christians their faithful Christian parent who passed could have been saved because we can't even say for sure Christians outside the church who don't hate it are saved who are outside because they want to save others souls and make them righteous and spread hope of salvation to them and therefore not grief. Because God actually accepts Protestants but we may hinder them from believing God. Maybe it is time I leave orthodoxy if that is not accepted
I have yet to be convinced of orthodoxy and to see it as a just and beautiful message. But I do not think it is right to tell me to go to another church to have communion. I don't need to have communion to know it is the truth the Holy Spirit fell on cornelius to tell him it is the truth and to get baptised.
Maybe I did not want to debate anyway but just to get help which involved discussion if you define debate as not being open to changing your view but to defend and teach it as right

Read romans 10

dzheremi · Apr 17, 2017

Mike: No, no, my friend...please don't misunderstand. When I write "these things are not up for debate", I mean that it is not appropriate for those outside of our faith like the posters you are interacting with to give advice against it on the grounds that its practices or customs are not the same as theirs, e.g., in matters of ecclesiology (i.e., "take communion at other churches" or the like), just like it would not be appropriate for us to chastise a Roman Catholic who is keeping to his own church's rule about not having married priests even though that is not our custom. Obviously you may debate or ask questions of fellow Orthodox people, as is common when there is some issue concerning how we ought to govern ourselves. Remember the big debate concerning canon 15 of Nicaea at the time of the election of HH Pope Shenouda III's successor? That was a debate, and it needed to happen, and there's nothing wrong with it.

But we don't invite everyone in the world to help us decide how we will govern ourselves. Only those people who are actually in the Church.

So by all means, continue to ask questions! But you might also want to first ask a mod to move this thread to the Traditional Theology forum where people will not argue against your Church simply for having strict ecclesiology, closed communion, etc. These are side issues to the main issue concerning whether to accept Protestants as fellow Christians (of course we do, assuming they hold to the Nicene Creed), or how to understand the Eucharist, or any of this. You are already doing a good job with these by relying on the ancient Christian commentary, as there is no question that the fathers cannot enlighten for us.

And may God be with you in your struggles.

mikeforjesus · Apr 18, 2017

dzheremi said:
Mike: No, no, my friend...please don't misunderstand. When I write "these things are not up for debate", I mean that it is not appropriate for those outside of our faith like the posters you are interacting with to give advice against it on the grounds that its practices or customs are not the same as theirs, e.g., in matters of ecclesiology (i.e., "take communion at other churches" or the like), just like it would not be appropriate for us to chastise a Roman Catholic who is keeping to his own church's rule about not having married priests even though that is not our custom. Obviously you may debate or ask questions of fellow Orthodox people, as is common when there is some issue concerning how we ought to govern ourselves. Remember the big debate concerning canon 15 of Nicaea at the time of the election of HH Pope Shenouda III's successor? That was a debate, and it needed to happen, and there's nothing wrong with it. But we don't invite everyone in the world to help us decide how we will govern ourselves. Only those people who are actually in the Church.

So by all means, continue to ask questions! But you might also want to first ask a mod to move this thread to the Traditional Theology forum where people will not argue against your Church simply for having strict ecclesiology, closed communion, etc. These are side issues to the main issue concerning whether to accept Protestants as fellow Christians (of course we do, assuming they hold to the Nicene Creed), or how to understand the Eucharist, or any of this. You are already doing a good job with these by relying on the ancient Christian commentary, as there is no question that the fathers cannot enlighten for us.

And may God be with you in your struggles.

You are right my friend and brother. Thankyou. I find it hard to get help among the orthodox though because they think I stumble others for making them aware of other thoughts because I will stumble others but they are therefore avoiding the commandment to go into all the world and teach do not believe. No one can harm another unless that person has first harmed himself. And the gates of hades can not prevail against the church so the church will rebut heresy. They really are only concerned about gaining honor from one another for appearing perfect and have forsaken the spirit of service. Jesus said I did not come for the righteous but for the sinners

mikeforjesus · Apr 18, 2017

The gospel is either in protestantism or orthodoxy. The bible is clear on the need for baptism and the eucharist and the laying on of hands of bishops to make them shepherds and the need of laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit normally and God gave the apostles only authority to loose and bind. But God can make exceptions and give the Holy Spirit to who He wants. I will follow orthodoxy as the gospel because I see it as true while having hope for those outside as I think all orthodox do make exceptions. I may learn more on God position to protestant as I take communion which is taught as a means to destroy all the devil attack on us all and the world. God not only can make exceptions but we do not know God may be with all christians but I do not know. I chose this position logically as it is true but I remember now that I have to for I should not stumble others when they see me take communion if I taught before it is needed

mikeforjesus · Apr 18, 2017

It was told by my dad interfering in people relationship with God by judging them is wrong but I ignored him. I felt convicted sitting down that I put a stumbling block to people and I will return or change my mind. If God wants people to be orthodox He will show them He wants them to be it is not for me to try to tell them they might really not be saved. Cornelius simply feared God and did righteously continually and God sent Him Peter to believe. I insist because I think it is true so I will pinge my salvation on it that God Spirit is poured on all believers in Jesus and God grace is available to all who call on the name of Jesus

mikeforjesus · Apr 20, 2017

I still have another reason to remain orthodox because Jesus said to Nicodemus being born again of water and the Spirit is a Spiritual and earthly thing. The Spirit works through the earthly thing which is baptism. Protestants say being born of water means being born of the amniotic fluid in mothers womb so they have to get out. This means still births are not going to heaven and I do not agree nor can anyone know. Straight after Jesus was baptising and He said he who believes and is baptised will be saved but he who does not believe is condemned. So baptism seems to lead to salvation but you believe but are not baptised you will not be condemned which means you will go to heaven.
If I thought being strictly orthodox would help you I would. It may be accepted among orthodox if you are baptised your christian family who obeys God's moral laws will be saved. But this is limited to saying if you are not baptised they will not be so I don't think it is good to preach that but maybe it is good

AspieforGod · Apr 20, 2017

mikeforjesus said:
I think I have troubled people with Jesus words unless you eat My flesh you have no life in you to mean Protestants may never be saved or have a chance at being worthy of a reward but I have given a good reasoning for believing as orthodox we should accept Protestants. I know in my conscience it is wrong to cast doubt in Protestants ability to be saved because I may hinder the gospel for people who may even be close to death who can doubt Christianity because there are too many denominations claiming to be the way who are offended by disunity and the bad representation orthodox give of God
How can I come back to God as He said you can not go back to Him without reconciling with others (I mean in terms of reward as you can still be saved but not if you refuse reconciliation from unforgiveness and those in your faith )? Do you forgive me my rebellion ?I can say I insist and hold to death Protestants can be saved but you may not believe me and you may think I will change my mind. So how do I cancel this negative effect ? I can not be Protestant but a Christian who believes in unity of all believers because I can not get out of my mind you need to be baptised and/or born of water to be saved and eat His flesh but I believe Protestants can be forgiven in the age to come so I would still have to be orthodox and I think the Holy Spirit within me supports unity because of my conscience. Our conscience will accuse or excuse us in the day of Jesus

My defense for it being proper to accept Protestants is in the link below

Christian blog: Christianity

Anyway how do I cancel my negative affect on others of allowing those views not within my conscience to affect me. How do I get them to forgive me by not being offended anymore from me. I am willing to say I hold to death Christian unity but you may think I will return to those extremist views which make the path more narrow than it is which is in Jesus.

Also I would like your views on below
Christian blog: Knowing you are a Christian

Brother, be comforted. As there are no distinctions between master and slave, or Jew and gentile there is no distinction between denominations. Human labels don't replace the spark of light within us and that is what God sees and is interested in. God knows who belong to Him and who does not. We can't know the hearts of others, external show of faith alone is worthless.
Your negative effect is cancelled by Jesus when you pray to be forgiven there is nothing else you can do but give it to God. Don't seek human approval seek God's.

mikeforjesus · Apr 28, 2017

Thank you brother

mikeforjesus · May 9, 2017

I made perhaps a very foolish mistake of posting about communion as necessary to raise people at the last day but I still said why I hope which is good reason to me but I don't know if others think it is. Because I read it recently with more thought about last day but I didn't want to suffer alone and I wanted to promote unity with more conviction

I still believe Protestants are saved but I wanted that verse addressed once for all so people even Protestants believe me

I should have just suffered alone since I could have quietly studied but I didn't want to incase I am not meant to bear the burden which makes me sin. I should go to church anyway but I feel I want encouragement to go to church even from people here and make others in church address these issues when I go because people here will be happy people in church help me with my particular issue and that I am not biased to Protestantism. Of course I don't think they will help because they like to be ignorant but I think going to church will still help me form my opinion
I don't know if communion really helps fight sin or by understanding the gospel and reading the word and praying but I will try anyway so I know the matter since my fellow Christians here may not be helping me much

Because I make people give up faith jesus says to me like those who prophecy in His name depart from Me you workers of iniquity. Because God does not require people to be orthodox and even if He did I put a stumbling block to it

Anyway now I make it my aim to focus on the kingdom and that my ignorance is a sign I need to seek God more and focus only on Him now
but I'm not sure I will succeed from my laziness to know truth more and to be able to share well

If you are worried I may be keeping people away from life through communion then you should join the church and have it until I have made a response unless you are strong enough not that you should pretend to be strong enough

Anyway if Jesus did not mean absolutely you must take communion He is not interested in those who get offended easily and do not seek a relationship with Him to understand

mikeforjesus · Feb 12, 2022

Jezmeyah said:
You being orthodox is without your saying it, being a catholic. The true orthodox is being in Christ and thus, without a specific denomination. The designation that you are using, is a divisive distinction of yours that you practice while at the same time you, by your posts in this thread, are desiring unity with Protestants.

But no true unity can be achieved as long as you call your catholic doctrine 'orthodox'. And in doing so, you are stating that what you believe to be 'true unity'.. that all Protestants become Catholic. However, that is elevating your doctrine.. not exalting Christ, the Savior of both catholics and protestants; and all the world.

The (catholic) sacraments of communion are given for those catholics at the closeness of their death? Just in case they didn't go see a priest and repent for sins committed that day.

For the protestant, (I presume concerning different protestant denominations) they as gathered members have monthly communion.
But each Christian may also at any time in their own home take communion, but it's not necessarily required upon each time of prayer in repenting for sins.
Neither is a priest required to be present when approaching God in prayer (whether on one's death bed or not). For the apostles Paul and Peter wrote that all believers are priests unto God.

What is written in the Bible.. is the orthodox.

I would like to be united but I don't know why I am not effective like other people so I think better not to be united.

Can I come back ?

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