You are gods

CherubRam said:

Again, the term "god-s" for other people only means that the have, or will have, life immortal. It does not mean they have super natural powers.

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I'm having a problem following some of what you are trying to say.

What is your understanding of the following Scriptures?

John 10:34-36

Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I
said, you are gods'? If he called them gods, to whom the word
of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say
of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world,
'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"
(John 10:34-36).

What is your understanding of the following:

ESV
You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

What is your understanding of the following:

41 While the Pharisees were together, Jesus questioned them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose Son is He?”

“David’s,” they told Him.

43 He asked them, “How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls Him ‘Lord’:

44 The Lord declared to my Lord,
‘Sit at My right hand
until I put Your enemies under Your feet’?

45 “If David calls Him ‘Lord,’ how then can the Messiah be his Son?” 46 No one was able to answer Him at all, and from that day no one dared to question Him anymore.

Thanks.

GeorgeTwo said:

I'm having a problem following some of what you are trying to say.

What is your understanding of the following Scriptures?

John 10:34-36

Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I
said, you are gods'? If he called them gods, to whom the word
of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say
of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world,
'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"
(John 10:34-36).

What is your understanding of the following:

ESV
You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

What is your understanding of the following:

41 While the Pharisees were together, Jesus questioned them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose Son is He?”

“David’s,” they told Him.

43 He asked them, “How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls Him ‘Lord’:

44 The Lord declared to my Lord,
‘Sit at My right hand
until I put Your enemies under Your feet’?

45 “If David calls Him ‘Lord,’ how then can the Messiah be his Son?” 46 No one was able to answer Him at all, and from that day no one dared to question Him anymore.

Thanks.

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41-45 you quoted but which chapter?

CherubRam said:

It was understood that the Messiah to come would be a god from the kingdom of heaven. The name of God has been removed from the bibles. David, speaking for God said: "Yahwah said to my lord."

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Please answer all my questions.

Ref to what you said above. How could the Messiah be a god, since there is only one God?

Robban said:

41-45 you quoted but which chapter?

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Never mind, I found it (Matt 22:41-45)

It is referring to Psalms 110, which in turn refer to Abraham.

The Word of the Lord to my master,
"Wait for My for right hand,
until I make your enemies a footstool at your feet."

Robban said:

Never mind, I found it (Matt 22:41-45)

It is referring to Psalms 110, which in turn refer to Abraham.

The Word of the Lord to my master,
"Wait for My for right hand,
until I make your enemies a footstool at your feet."

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Yes, sorry about that.

chaela said:

How could this be if there's supposed to be only one God?

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How ?
"if there is supposed to be" ?
"only one God?"
Interesting.... ?

Where did everybody we know* get their own ideas about God, if any,
while GROWING UP ?
Who told them ?


*'know'
or, Where did Abraham, our father of faith, come from ? Did he always believe in only one God ? Or in the country he came from, was he surrounded by many gods ?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

How ?
"if there is supposed to be" ?
"only one God?"
Interesting.... ?

Where did everybody we know* get their own ideas about God, if any,
while GROWING UP ?
Who told them ?


*'know'
or, Where did Abraham, our father of faith, come from ? Did he always believe in only one God ? Or in the country he came from, was he surrounded by many gods ?

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This article may answer your question:

What was Abraham's religion before God called him?

GeorgeTwo said:

This article may answer your question:

What was Abraham's religion before God called him?

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WONDERFUL YES! As wonderful can be -
As the last sentence in it: "As a result of God’s blessings to Abraham, the whole world is blessed (Genesis 18:18)."

(Thank you for that link. My question was rhetorical, hoping people would search for the answer - if they do not search(seek), but if it is just stated, they mayn't learn anything)

CherubRam said:

God is not a man

God is not a man: In Numbers 23:19; "God is not a man..." defies the possibility that Yahshua The Messiah is God. The text states that: Yahwah is not an ("iys / man) that He should lie, nor the son of (Adam / Man")...

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I agree that God is not a man. Let's look at Numbers 23:19 in context.

God is not a man who lies,
or a son of man who changes His mind.
Does He speak and not act,
or promise and not fulfill?

Notice the qualifying phrases. This Scripture is not say God cannot incarnate a man.

CherubRam said:

Hosea 11:9
I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I devastate Ephraim again. For I am God, and not a man— the Holy One among you.

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Notice the context.

CherubRam said:

Matthew 26:64
"Yes, it is as you say," Yahshua replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

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Jesus is quoting Daniel, the Son of Man in Daniel is a divine figure.

CherubRam said:

Matthew 22:41
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Yahshua asked them, 42"What do you think about the Messiah ? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied. 43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'lord'? For he says, 44" 'The Lord said to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." 45If then David calls him 'lord,' how can he be his son?"

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Jesus is saying He is greater than David because David calls him lord.

CherubRam said:

John 14:28
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

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Kind of an odd thing for a mere man to say, isn't it? Wouldn't it be obvious to a mere man that the Father would be greater than him???

The Father is greater in office but not in essence.

CherubRam said:

Philippians 2:5-7
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Messiah Yahshua: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
That word "equal" could be translated in other words, such as, "equated," or "counted," or "equality."And the word robbery can translate as "obtainable." If Yahshua states that "The Father is greater than I" and refers to his Father in prayer as "You, the only true God," in (John 17:3.) It's kind of obvious that he's not equal to the one who sent him. "God exalted him," he did not exalt himself !

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Let's look at John 17:3 in context:

17 Jesus spoke these things, looked up to heaven, and said:

Father,
the hour has come.
Glorify Your Son
so that the Son may glorify You,
2 for You gave Him authority
over all flesh;
so He may give eternal life
to all You have given Him.
3 This is eternal life:
that they may know You, the only true God,
and the One You have sent—Jesus Christ.
4 I have glorified You on the earth
by completing the work You gave Me to do.
5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.

Jesus is saying YHWH is the only true God as opposed to idols.

2 Chronicles 15:

3 For a long time Israel was without the true God, without a priest to teach and without the law. 4 But in their distress they turned to the LORD, the God of Israel, and sought him, and he was found by them. (Israel was worshiping idols then.)

The true God vs idols.

Jeremiah
10 But the LORD is the true God;
he is the living God, the eternal King.
When he is angry, the earth trembles;
the nations cannot endure his wrath.

11 "Tell them this: 'These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.' "

The true God vs idols.

1 Thessalonians 1:9
9for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,

The true God vs idols

1 John 5:20-21
20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.


True God vs idols

John 17:3

John 17:3 (New International Version)
3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

True God vs false gods/idols

Jesus is saying there is only one God/Creator -- YHWH. He is not saying that YHWH's Word and YHWH's Spirit are not God.

A Second Epistle Of Ignatius, a disciple of John, To St. John,[30-107 AD]

If thou wilt give me leave, I desire to go up to Jerusalem, and see the faithful saints who are there, especially Mary the mother, whom they report to be an object of admiration and of affection to all. For who would not rejoice to behold and to address her who bore the true God from her own womb, provided he is a friend of our faith and religion?

Irenaeus Against Heresies [A.D. 120-202.] Disciple of Plycarp, disciple of John, Book 4

And again, He says to them a second time: “And ye have made void the word of God by reason of your tradition;” Christ confessing in the plainest manner Him to be Father and God, who said in the law, “Honor thy father and mother; that it may be well with thee.” For the true God did confess the commandment of the law as the word of God, and called no one else God besides His own Father.

Clement Of Alexandria [A.D. 153-193-217] Exhortation To The Heathen

Chapter 1 Such are the reveries of my mysteries. If it is thy wish, be thou also initiated; and thou shalt join the choir along with angels around the unbegotten and indestructible and the only true God, the Word of God, raising the hymn with us. This Jesus, who is eternal, the one great High Priest of the one God, and of His Father, prays for and exhorts men.

Tertullian Against Praxeas; [145-220 AD]

The simple, indeed, (I will not call them unwise and unlearned,) who always constitute the majority of believers, are startled at the dispensation (of the Three in One), on the ground that their very rule of faith withdraws them from the world’s plurality of gods to the one only true God; not understanding that, although He is the one only God, He must yet be believed in with His own [size=+1]οικονομια[/size]. The numerical order and distribution of the Trinity they assume to be a division of the Unity; whereas the Unity which derives the Trinity out of its own self is so far from being destroyed, that it is actually supported by it

Hippolytus [A.D. 170-236] Expository Treatise Against The Jews

4. Now Christ prayed all this economically as man; being, however, true God. But, as I have already said, it was the “form of the servant” that spake and suffered these things.

Novatian, A Roman Presbyter Concerning The Trinity [A.D. 210-280]

If Christ was only man, wherefore did He lay down for us such a rule of believing as that in which He said, “And this is life eternal, that they should know Thee, the only and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent?” Had He not wished that He also should be understood to be God, why did He add, “And Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent,” except because He wished to be received as God also? Because if He had not wished to be understood to be God, He would have added, “And the man Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent;” but, in fact, He neither added this, nor did Christ deliver Himself to us as man only, but associated Himself with God, as He wished to be understood by this conjunction to be God also, as He is. We must therefore believe, according to the rule prescribed, on the Lord, the one true God, and consequently on Him whom He has sent, Jesus Christ, who by no means, as we have said, would have linked Himself to the Father had He not wished to be understood to be God also: for He would have separated Himself from Him had He not wished to be understood to be God.

Alexander, Bishop Of Alexandria. (A.D. 273 -313-326.) Oration Concerning Simeon And Anna

We, together with thee, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, Thou art the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God; the one Lord, before Thine assumption of the humanity; that One nevertheless, after Thine assumption of it, which is ever to be adored; God of Thine own self and not by grace, but for our sakes also perfect man; in Thine own nature the King absolute and sovereign, but for us and for our salvation existing also in the form of a servant.

The Seven Books Of Arnobius Against The Heathen (Adversus Gentes.) [A.D. 297 — 303.]

44. And yet it is agreed on that Christ performed all those miracles which He wrought without any aid from external things, without the observance of any ceremonial, without any definite mode of procedure, but solely by the inherent might of His authority; and as was the proper duty of the true God, as was consistent with His nature, as was worthy of Him, in the generosity of His bounteous power He bestowed nothing hurtful or injurious, but only that which is helpful, beneficial, and full of blessings good for men.

Also notice in order to have eternal life we must know the only true God AND His messiah.

Also notice verse 5: 5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.

Jesus is saying He is eternal and only God is eternal.

CherubRam said:

Malachi 3:6
For I am (the Lord / Yahwah,) I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

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God does not change; He has always been triune.

GeorgeTwo said:

Yes, sorry about that.

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CherubRam said:

Pagan trinities have been around since the days of Abraham. What was different about Abraham's faith is that his God was not a trinity. If God was a Trinity don't you think He would have said so?

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Christ made certain truth claims that state believing in him is the only way to God.

John 3:16King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Christianity is very exclusive. You either become born again to Christ or don't receive eternal life.We have a spiritual nature and the only way it can be right with God is to accept Christs saving grace on the cross.

Notice in John 3:16. God gave his only begotten Son. In this context there is only one son of God who has deity.

This is not the same son of God expressed in the OT about men being son's of God.

Psalms 82 admonishes those judges who feign ignorance of the law, dealing unjustly with the pauper or the orphan,
while coddling the rich and pocketing their bribes.

2, How long will you judge wickedly, ever showing partiality
toward evildoers?

6, I said you are angels, supernal beings, all of you.
7, But you will die as mortals,
you will fall like any Prince.

They will fall away

CherubRam said:

Psalm 82:6
KJ21
I have said, “Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.”
ASV
I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
AMP
I said, “You are gods; Indeed, all of you are sons of the Most High.
AMPC
I said, You are gods [since you judge on My behalf, as My representatives]; indeed, all of you are children of the Most High.
BRG
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
CSB
I said, “You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.
CEB
I hereby declare, “You are gods, children of the Most High—all of you!
CJB
“My decree is: ‘You are elohim [gods, judges], sons of the Most High all of you.
CEV
“I, the Most High God, say that all of you are gods and also my own children.
DARBY
I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High;
DRA
For they have contrived with one consent: they have made a covenant together against thee,
ERV
I, God Most High, say, “You are gods, my own sons.
ESV
I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;
ESVUK
I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;
EXB
I said, ‘You are “gods.” You are all sons of God Most High.’
GNV
I have said, Ye are gods, and ye all are children of the most High.
GW
I said, “You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High.
GNT
‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are children of the Most High.’
HCSB
I said, “You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.
ICB
I said, ‘You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High God.’
ISV
“Indeed I said, ‘You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High.
JUB
¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are sons of the most High.
KJV
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
AKJV
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
LEB
I have said, “You are gods, and sons of the Most High, all of you.
TLB
I have called you all “gods” and “sons of the Most High.”
MSG
“I commissioned you judges, each one of you, deputies of the High God, But you’ve betrayed your commission and now you’re stripped of your rank, busted.”
MEV
I have said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you,
NOG
I said, “You are gods. You are all sons of Elyon.
NABRE
I declare: “Gods though you be, offspring of the Most High all of you,
NASB
I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
NCV
I said, ‘You are “gods.” You are all sons of God Most High.’
NET
I thought, ‘You are gods; all of you are sons of the Most High.’
NIRV
“I said, ‘You leaders are like gods. You are all children of the Most High God.’
NIV
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
NIVUK
‘I said, “You are ‘gods’; you are all sons of the Most High.”
NKJV
I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.
NLV
I said, “You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High.
NLT
I say, ‘You are gods; you are all children of the Most High.
NRSV
I say, “You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;
NRSVA
I say, ‘You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;
NRSVACE
I say, ‘You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;
NRSVCE
I say, “You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;
OJB
I have said, elohim ye are; and all of you are Bnei HaElyon.
RSV
I say, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;
RSVCE
I say, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;
TLV
I said: ‘You are ‘gods’, and you are all sons of Elyon,
VOICE
I said, “Though you are gods and children of the Most High,
WEB
I said, “You are gods, all of you are sons of the Most High.
WYC
I said, Ye be gods; and all ye be the sons of the high God. (And I said, Ye be gods; and ye all be the sons of the Most High God.)
YLT
I -- I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

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If this was a list of runners in the Grand National,

I would put my money on MSG, to win.