The Resurrection of Christ

Not_By_Chance · Apr 12, 2017

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct place because I get confused by all the different aspects of religion, especially theology.

What I wanted to say was to express my surprise that according to something I heard on the BBC the other day, a recent poll of people calling themselves "Christians" said that they didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus. How can that be? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why would he voluntarily submit himself to torture and death on a cross and why would his followers become so emboldened afterwards to go out into the world and preach about him under threat of enduring a similar fate? Only an insane person would go and tell everyone he was God and could forgive their sins, then refuse to back down and allow himself to put to death, but it makes perfect sense if Jesus came into the world to forgive sins that started thousands of years previous in the Garden of Eden when Eve and then Adam gave in to Satan's temptation. What do others think and can anyone offer a possible explanation of what might be going on here? Could it possibly be another trick of Satan to confuse the church and thereby reduce its influence?

CrystalDragon · Apr 12, 2017

Not_By_Chance said:
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct place because I get confused by all the different aspects of religion, especially theology.

What I wanted to say was to express my surprise that according to something I heard on the BBC the other day, a recent poll of people calling themselves "Christians" said that they didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus. How can that be? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why would he voluntarily submit himself to torture and death on a cross and why would his followers become so emboldened afterwards to go out into the world and preach about him under threat of enduring a similar fate? Only an insane person would go and tell everyone he was God and could forgive their sins, then refuse to back down and allow himself to put to death, but it makes perfect sense if Jesus came into the world to forgive sins that started thousands of years previous in the Garden of Eden when Eve and then Adam gave in to Satan's temptation. What do others think and can anyone offer a possible explanation of what might be going on here? Could it possibly be another trick of Satan to confuse the church and thereby reduce its influence?

Minor point - Satan didn't deceive Eve, the serpent was said to be just a serpent, and the OT writers had no concept of a devil. Not the main point, moving on.

I think the reason more might be saying they don't believe is because as more knowledge of the Bible becomes more widespread, and how long it took for the Bible to be compiled and deciding what books would go into it, people seem less inclined to believe as it seems more "constructed over time" than "unified". They may still call themselves "Christians" because they were raised with it, enjoy the traditions, and don't want to lose and relationships they might have had.

AvgJoe · Apr 12, 2017

Not_By_Chance said:
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct place because I get confused by all the different aspects of religion, especially theology.

What I wanted to say was to express my surprise that according to something I heard on the BBC the other day, a recent poll of people calling themselves "Christians" said that they didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus. How can that be? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why would he voluntarily submit himself to torture and death on a cross and why would his followers become so emboldened afterwards to go out into the world and preach about him under threat of enduring a similar fate? Only an insane person would go and tell everyone he was God and could forgive their sins, then refuse to back down and allow himself to put to death, but it makes perfect sense if Jesus came into the world to forgive sins that started thousands of years previous in the Garden of Eden when Eve and then Adam gave in to Satan's temptation. What do others think and can anyone offer a possible explanation of what might be going on here? Could it possibly be another trick of Satan to confuse the church and thereby reduce its influence?

Quite simply, they're not really Christians. Concerning the resurrection, Paul said it best in 1 Corinthians 15:12-19;

12) But tell me this—since we preach that Christ rose from the dead, why are some of you saying there will be no resurrection of the dead? 13) For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised either. 14) And if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your faith is useless. 15) And we apostles would all be lying about God—for we have said that God raised Christ from the grave. But that can’t be true if there is no resurrection of the dead. 16) And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. 17) And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins. 18) In that case, all who have died believing in Christ are lost! 19) And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world.

AvgJoe · Apr 12, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
Minor point - Satan didn't deceive Eve, the serpent was said to be just a serpent, and the OT writers had no concept of a devil. Not the main point, moving on.

Yes, the serpent in Genesis chapter 3 was Satan. Satan was either appearing as a serpent, possessing the serpent, or deceiving Adam and Eve into believing that it was the serpent who was talking to them. Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 both describe Satan as a serpent. It doesn't matter if the Old Testament writers had a concept of the devil or not because the Holy Spirit knows all about the devil and the Old Testament was written by His inspiration.

CrystalDragon · Apr 12, 2017

AvgJoe said:
Yes, the serpent in Genesis chapter 3 was Satan. Satan was either appearing as a serpent, possessing the serpent, or deceiving Adam and Eve into believing that it was the serpent who was talking to them. Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 both describe Satan as a serpent. It doesn't matter if the Old Testament writers had a concept of the devil or not because the Holy Spirit knows all about the devil and the Old Testament was written by His inspiration.

Revelation was written centuries later, when opinions of both God and Satan changed (in tge OT God was in control of both good and bad, while in the NT God only does good and anything bad is caused by Satan). In Genesis itself the serpent is never referred to as anything but a serpent—it's described as being "the craftiest of all the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made" (indicating that's how the snake was as an animal), and God cursed it to slither on the ground and eat dust, as an explanation for why snakes do so today even though they use their tongues for smelling and not eating (a punishment that would make no sense whatsoever if the serpent was actually Satan or possessed by Satan)

Also, there were many books that could have been in the Bible but weren't (the Book of Enoch was even mentioned in the Bible but isn't part of the Bible), so we can't even say if the Holy Spirit really guided all of them, or if we lost some true ones along the way (we only have four Gospels instead of 60 because a bishop in 180 liked the number 4)? Saying that the Bible says it's God breathed because of one verse in the New Testament saying it is is circular reasoning, saying it's true just because one verse says it is.

Phil 1:21 · Apr 12, 2017

Not_By_Chance said:
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct place because I get confused by all the different aspects of religion, especially theology.

What I wanted to say was to express my surprise that according to something I heard on the BBC the other day, a recent poll of people calling themselves "Christians" said that they didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus. How can that be? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why would he voluntarily submit himself to torture and death on a cross and why would his followers become so emboldened afterwards to go out into the world and preach about him under threat of enduring a similar fate? Only an insane person would go and tell everyone he was God and could forgive their sins, then refuse to back down and allow himself to put to death, but it makes perfect sense if Jesus came into the world to forgive sins that started thousands of years previous in the Garden of Eden when Eve and then Adam gave in to Satan's temptation. What do others think and can anyone offer a possible explanation of what might be going on here? Could it possibly be another trick of Satan to confuse the church and thereby reduce its influence?

Long and short of it, these days "Christian" to some people is a label instead of a life.

AvgJoe · Apr 12, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
Revelation was written centuries later, when opinions of both God and Satan changed (in tge OT God was in control of both good and bad, while in the NT God only does good and anything bad is caused by Satan). In Genesis itself the serpent is never referred to as anything but a serpent—it's described as being "the craftiest of all the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made" (indicating that's how the snake was as an animal), and God cursed it to slither on the ground and eat dust, as an explanation for why snakes do so today even though they use their tongues for smelling and not eating (a punishment that would make no sense whatsoever if the serpent was actually Satan or possessed by Satan)

Also, there were many books that could have been in the Bible but weren't (the Book of Enoch was even mentioned in the Bible but isn't part of the Bible), so we can't even say if the Holy Spirit really guided all of them, or if we lost some true ones along the way (we only have four Gospels instead of 60 because a bishop in 180 liked the number 4)? Saying that the Bible says it's God breathed because of one verse in the New Testament saying it is is circular reasoning, saying it's true just because one verse says it is.

I couldn't be a Christian and have a belief system like that, that the Bible may not be true. Either it is all true and trustworthy, like God says it is, or it is not trustworthy and might as well be completely false. If that were the case, how are we to know what is true and what isn't? Is the resurrection true? “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life...is that true? If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved, for it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved...is that true? That kind of belief is untenable. I couldn't/wouldn't do it.

The Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years, by 40 God chosen men, who lived on multiple continents and they all wrote about the same thing, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There were no mail delivery trucks, no drop ship planes, no Federal Express, no UPS and no email, yet when all of the writings were put together they present one unified message. The Bible is truly the Word of God.

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. How much research have you done on proving the validity of the Bible? Following are some topics and links I hope you will look into, concerning the validity of the Bible. Please lay your doubt aside and proceed with an open mind, and heart, and see what the evidence has to say.

An excellent ebook on the subject: http://www.apologeticspress.org/pdfs/e-books_pdf/idobi.pdf

Proof of Textual Evidence
Old Testament: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity
New Testament: Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability | carm
More on the Bible: The Bible | carm

Proof of People Living at the Time of Christ
Non biblical accounts of New Testament events and/or people | carm
The writings of Josephus mention many biblical people and places | carm

Proof of Archaeology
Archaeology and the Bible • ChristianAnswers.Net
Archaeological evidence verifying biblical cities | carm

Proof of Science
Statements Consistent With Paleontology, Astronomy, Meteorology, Biology, Anthropology, Hydrology, Geology
Science and the Bible
Scientific Accuracies of the Bible | carm
Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge

Proof of Prophecy (Messanic & dealing with nations)
Messianic Prophecies
Fulfilled Bible Prophecy Dealing With Nations
Prophecy, the Bible and Jesus | carm
http://shoreshdavidbrandon.org/pdf/I-Have-A-Friend-Whose-Jewish.pdf (awesome eBook)
How Do You Know The Bible Is True?

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. In Christianity, faith is required but it does not have to be a blind faith.

SolomonVII · Apr 12, 2017

Not_By_Chance said:
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct place because I get confused by all the different aspects of religion, especially theology.

What I wanted to say was to express my surprise that according to something I heard on the BBC the other day, a recent poll of people calling themselves "Christians" said that they didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus. How can that be? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why would he voluntarily submit himself to torture and death on a cross and why would his followers become so emboldened afterwards to go out into the world and preach about him under threat of enduring a similar fate? Only an insane person would go and tell everyone he was God and could forgive their sins, then refuse to back down and allow himself to put to death, but it makes perfect sense if Jesus came into the world to forgive sins that started thousands of years previous in the Garden of Eden when Eve and then Adam gave in to Satan's temptation. What do others think and can anyone offer a possible explanation of what might be going on here? Could it possibly be another trick of Satan to confuse the church and thereby reduce its influence?

The Enlightenment changes everything. It starts with the Reformation and questioning books from the Deuterocanicals due to historical inaccuracies that come apparent. But the critical thinking does not stop there. The whole Bible becomes subject to the same process, with similar holes being found everywhere.
An evolutionary theory that see creation as an escientifically explainable process rather than a miraculous one, begins to question all miracles. Socialists begin to interpret the gospel as the social gospel and Christianity becomes the impetus to become social justice warriors for them.
Metaphorical understanding of resurrection and the like become the norm.
And we have arrived.

inquiring mind · Apr 12, 2017

Not_By_Chance said:
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct place because I get confused by all the different aspects of religion, especially theology.

What I wanted to say was to express my surprise that according to something I heard on the BBC the other day, a recent poll of people calling themselves "Christians" said that they didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus. How can that be? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why would he voluntarily submit himself to torture and death on a cross and why would his followers become so emboldened afterwards to go out into the world and preach about him under threat of enduring a similar fate? Only an insane person would go and tell everyone he was God and could forgive their sins, then refuse to back down and allow himself to put to death, but it makes perfect sense if Jesus came into the world to forgive sins that started thousands of years previous in the Garden of Eden when Eve and then Adam gave in to Satan's temptation. What do others think and can anyone offer a possible explanation of what might be going on here? Could it possibly be another trick of Satan to confuse the church and thereby reduce its influence?

It seems that many today don't accept the ‘faith approach’ regarding the life of Jesus, including His resurrection. Everything has to be historically based, and yet they fail to see the most persuasive evidence and indicator that Christ indeed arose. You touched on it when you said, “and why would his followers become so emboldened afterwards to go out into the world and preach about him under threat of enduring a similar fate?”

In a forty day period following His resurrection Jesus’ disciples changed from a state of fear and hiding, even denial, to openly proclaiming His story with no regard for their own lives. What would do that? What would turn someone around that quick? Do you think it was only because they missed Him and mourned for Him? Do you think it was just their sudden strong desire to proclaim faith in Him? Do you think it was because they met a few times and decided to start witnessing and begin a church? No... it had to be because they saw Him alive and heard Him speaking to them after they had seen Him die on the cross. You know how doubtful people are otherwise... but how powerful would that be? What else could have moved people to the point of disregarding their own life, and saying you better listen to me... He did what He said He would do.

Ron Gurley · Apr 12, 2017

Jesus the Divine Messiah was TRUE MAN. His Body/Soul combo bled to death on the Cross.

And because of His DUAL NATURE, TRUE GOD, He had the power to raise others from the dead and did:
to help authenticate that He was Deity in perfect flesh come down from heaven to save Man.

But His TRUE MAN without His SPIRIT (which was commended to heaven on the cross) could not raise itself.

The two other spiritual Persons of the Godhead / TRI-UNE GOD had a role in transforming Jesus dead body/soul
into a unique once-in-history resurrection event.

Although God the Father did not allow God the Son to suffer bodily decay, I believe the spiritual Person of God the Holy Spirit miraculously and uniquely transformed Jesus' body/soul and raised it up from the tomb.

Romans 8:11...(God the Father does not "dwell". After Pentecost, God the Holy Spirit "dwells).
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead
will also give life to your mortal bodies
through His Spirit who dwells in you.

ACTIVE VOICE: verb with an object
[COMPARE]..("He is risen" which is PASSIVE, no object)

John 2:22
So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this;
and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Acts 13:30...But God raised Him from the dead;

Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death,
so that as Christ was raised from the dead
through the glory of the Father,
so we too might walk in newness of life.

Note that in the three synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) it says that Jesus was raised from the dead (passive...active?), not "risen" from the dead (active...passive?).

Matthew 28:1 [ Jesus Is Risen! ]

Matthew 28:6 ..."He has risen"...

Matthew 28:7 ..."He has risen"...

Mark 16:6 ..."He has risen"...

Luke 24:6 ...."He has risen"...

John 2:22 ...raised from the dead...

John 21:14 ...raised from the dead...

Acts 3:15 ...raised from the dead...

Acts 4:10 ...raised from the dead...

Acts 13:30 ...raised Him from the dead...

Acts 13:34 ...raised Him up from the dead...

Romans 4:24 ...raised Jesus our Lord from the dead...

Romans 6:4 ...raised from the dead...

Romans 6:9 ...raised from the dead...

WITNESS LIST to the post-Resurrection appearances of Jesus of Nazareth, the Divine Messiah, The God-Man.

1. Mary Magdalene (Mark16:9-11; John 20:11-18)
2. women including Mary mother of James, Salome, and Johanna (Matthew 28:8-10; Luke 24:9-11)
3. Peter (Cephus) (Luke 24:34; 1 Cor.15:5)
4. TWO followers on road to Emmaus (Mark16:12-13; Luke 24:13-35)
5. TEN disciples hidden (12 minus Judas I. and Thomas)...(Mark 16:14; Luke 24:36-49; John 20: 19-23)
6. ELEVEN disciples hidden (Thomas present)....(John 20: 24-29)
7. ELEVEN disciples in Galilee.."teach all nations"...(Matt. 28: 16-20)
8. Simon Peter, at Sea of Tiberias (+others there?)...feed sheep...(John 21: 1-24)
9. ELEVEN disciples + "crowd"(~500?) (1 Cor. 15:6)...(Matt. 28:16)
10. James, then others = ELEVEN disciples....(Acts 1: 3-8: 1 Cor. 15:7)
11. The Ascension by ELEVEN disciples, Mt. of Olives...Acts 1:9-12
12. Post Ascension: Paul (1 Cor. 15:8; Acts 9: 1-31)

Why all the WITNESSES?

John 3:15
so that whoever BELIEVES will in Him have eternal life.

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you,
he who hears My word, and
believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and
does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Here's the important FACT:

John 11: 17-27 (NASB)...The Death and Resurrection of Lazarus...Martha "Knew" like Peter "Knew"?
Jesus said to her,
"I am the resurrection and the life;
he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.
Do you believe this?"
She said to Him,
"Yes, Lord; I have BELIEVED (spirit-led FAITH!) that
You are the Christ, (Divine Messiah) the Son of God,
even He who comes into the world." (from heaven...DEITY!)

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

John 4...Samaritan Woman at the well
25 The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (hewho is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.”
26 Jesus said to her, I who speak to you am He.”

Jesus the Divine Messiah, The Son of God, bled and died FOR you!
BUT good news... He arose from the grave in a unique "spirit-body", made many appearances for ~40 days, and ascended into heaven, witnessed by 11 of His disciples.

Happy Easter Jesus! Hallelujah!

Greg J. · Apr 13, 2017

Not_By_Chance said:
... a recent poll of people calling themselves "Christians" said that they didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus. How can that be? ...

The short answer is simply that the word Christian means something different to each person. If your parents took you to a Christian church every Sunday, then you move out, and someone asks you if you are Christian, what are you going to say? It may have nothing to do with what you know or believe.

I actually avoid using the word Christian without qualification unless I have an idea how my hearers will interpret it. If you look at the results of various surveys of Christians (often conducted by George Barna), you'll see more poll results like the one you ran into.

Ron Gurley · Apr 13, 2017

Christian =~Christ follower.

No one can know for sure the spiritual relationship of any man to God.

BUT: you can "guess" by observing their "fruits"/"works".

Matthew 12:33[ Words Reveal Character ] “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.

Luke 6:44
For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.

1 Timothy 6:18
Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Ron Gurley · Apr 13, 2017

Resurrection Day...Happy Easter Jesus!

Reasons to Joyfully Celebrate the Resurrection

The resurrection authenticated the claims and teaching of the Lord Jesus. When challenged to produce a sign to prove His authenticity Jesus said there would be one final attesting sign, the sign of the prophet Jonah (His resurrection – see Matthew 12:40; Romans 1:4).

The resurrection completed and consummated the saving work of Jesus. The death of Christ would have no effect without His accompanying resurrection. Baptism symbolizes the fact that the
Christian is identified with Christ in His death, and in His resurrection (Romans 6:1-11). The resurrection of our Lord is an essential part of the gospel (Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 15).

The resurrection of the Lord Jesus demonstrates the magnitude of the power which God has provided through His Spirit so that the Christian can have victory over the flesh (Romans 8:11).

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the historic event which the Holy Spirit affirms to convince lost sinners of the righteousness of Christ (John 16:8-11). The resurrection of Jesus is not a problem, which we have to explain, as much as it is the Bible's declaration, which the Spirit uses to convict men of Christ's righteousness.

The resurrection of Jesus made it possible for Him to fulfill two seemingly contradictory prophecies regarding His coming to earth – those prophecies which indicated that the Messiah would suffer and die in the sinner's place (Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13—53:12), and those which speak of His future coming in power, and establishing His kingdom (Psalm 2; 110). Without the resurrection of Jesus at His first coming, His Second Coming could not take place.

The resurrection of our Lord is the basis and means for the resurrection of all the dead. It is the believer's ground for confidence of inheriting God's promised heavenly blessings (Romans 8:34-39; Hebrews 11:13-16; Revelation 20:4-6). At the same time Christ's resurrection is the basis for our assurance that the wicked will be raised from the dead to receive the eternal judgment they deserve for rejecting Christ and persisting in their sin (Psalm 73; John 5:28-29; 2
Thessalonians 1:5-10; 1 Peter 4:5; Revelation 20:11-15).

The resurrection reverses the devastating effects of Adamic disobedience. Adam's sin brought death to all men; Christ's resurrection brings life (Romans 5:17-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22).

Celebrate with us and tell your friends that we serve a living Lord, raised from the dead, seated at the right hand of God the Father, and serving as our advocate and intercessor. God has sent His Spirit – the same Spirit which raised Christ's dead body to life – to live within us, and to empower us. And, He has given us the living Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; 1 Peter 1:23), through which we can know God and serve Him.

Have a blessed Resurrection Sunday, and may the Living Lord be your source of great joy as you await His return.

For further study on the resurrection of Christ click on this link: https://bible.org/gsearch?search=resurrection

Not_By_Chance · Apr 13, 2017

I think I need to save a link to the responses on this thread because there is so much information I need to read up on to increase my knowledge of the great works that God has done, not to mention the amazing, one could say miraculous coming together of the Bible for the benefit of mankind.

Here is an interesting additional point I discovered relatively recently (I think it may have been in one of Brian Edwards' video series about how we got our Bible and why the account of Jesus can be trusted). I have a set of four of his videos, including this one and this one. Anyway, somewhere I think Mr Edwards makes the point that if this were all just a made-up story, the author wouldn't have given women the starring role in discovering the empty tomb (because of the male-dominated society of the time), so the fact that they were is very telling and just one of many other often-missed points that reinforce the truthfulness and reliability of these accounts.

Ron Gurley · Apr 13, 2017

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Discuss Christianity > RESURRECTION: Events at the tomb

A few years back I put the events at the tomb in order, piecing together the 4 gospels. Here is how it looks.

MARK 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body.

MARK 16:2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb

LUKE 24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

MATTHEW 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

MARK 16:3 and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?"

MARk 16:4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away.

JOHN 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.

LUKE 24:2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb,

(The stone was rolled away by ANangel prior to them getting there. The verses above indicate the stone "had" been rolled away. MATT. 28:2 tells us how the stone was rolled away.)

MATTHEW 28:2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.

MATTHEW 28:3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. (LIKE most angel MESSENGERS!)

MATTHEW 28:4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

MARK 16:5 As they (WOMEN) entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

LUKE 24:4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.

LUK 24:3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.

MARK 16:6 "Don't be alarmed," he (ANGEL) said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. (WRAPPINGS still there! If one wanted to steal the body, they would have taken ALL!)

LUKE 24:5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men (ANGELS) said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?

MATTHEW 28:5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.

LUKE 24:6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee:

MATTHEW 28:6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.

LUKE 24:7 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.'"

LUKE 24:8 Then they remembered his words.

MARK 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.'"

MATTHEW 28:7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."

MARK 16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone (ON THE WAY?), because they were afraid.

MATTHEW 28:8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

MATTHEW 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. (AS THE GOD-MAN!)

JOHN 20:2 So she (Mary the Magdalene) came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple (John the Elder), the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"

LUKE 24:9 When they (PETER+JOHN) came back from the tomb, they told all these things to (ALL) the Eleven and to all the others.

LUKE 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.

LUKE 24:11 But they (DISCIPLES IN HIDING) did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.

LUKE 24:12a Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb.

JOHN 20:3 So Peter and the other disciple (JOHN) started for the tomb.

JOHN 20:4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first.

JOHN 20:5 He bent over and looked in at the "strips of linen" lying there but did not go in. (THE MUMMYING WRAPPINGS left behind!)

JOHN 20:6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the "strips of linen" lying there,

LUKE 24:12b Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.

JOHN 20:7 as well as the "burial cloth" that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth (SHROUD for HEAD) was folded up by itself, separate from the linen.

JOHN 20:8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. (JESUS HAD RISEN!0

JOHN 20:9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

JOHN 20:10 Then the (two? ALL?) disciples went back to their homes,

JOHN 20:11 but Mary (THE MAGDALENE) stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb

JOHN 20:12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

JOHN 20:13 They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?" "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him."

MARK 16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

JOHN 20:14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

JOHN 20:15 "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."

JOHN 20:16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).

JOHN 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to (GRASP) me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

MARK 16:10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping.

JOHN 20:18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

IF I AM RIGHT, THE GOSPELS ARE IN BASIC HARMONY !!

Not_By_Chance · Apr 13, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
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Discuss Christianity > RESURRECTION: Events at the tomb

A few years back I put the events at the tomb in order, piecing together the 4 gospels. Here is how it looks.

MARK 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body.

MARK 16:2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb

LUKE 24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

MATTHEW 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

MARK 16:3 and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?"

MARk 16:4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away.

JOHN 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.

LUKE 24:2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb,

(The stone was rolled away by ANangel prior to them getting there. The verses above indicate the stone "had" been rolled away. MATT. 28:2 tells us how the stone was rolled away.)

MATTHEW 28:2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.

MATTHEW 28:3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. (LIKE most angel MESSENGERS!)

MATTHEW 28:4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

MARK 16:5 As they (WOMEN) entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

LUKE 24:4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.

LUK 24:3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.

MARK 16:6 "Don't be alarmed," he (ANGEL) said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. (WRAPPINGS still there! If one wanted to steal the body, they would have taken ALL!)

LUKE 24:5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men (ANGELS) said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?

MATTHEW 28:5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.

LUKE 24:6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee:

MATTHEW 28:6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.

LUKE 24:7 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.'"

LUKE 24:8 Then they remembered his words.

MARK 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.'"

MATTHEW 28:7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."

MARK 16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone (ON THE WAY?), because they were afraid.

MATTHEW 28:8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

MATTHEW 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. (AS THE GOD-MAN!)

JOHN 20:2 So she (Mary the Magdalene) came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple (John the Elder), the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"

LUKE 24:9 When they (PETER+JOHN) came back from the tomb, they told all these things to (ALL) the Eleven and to all the others.

LUKE 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.

LUKE 24:11 But they (DISCIPLES IN HIDING) did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.

LUKE 24:12a Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb.

JOHN 20:3 So Peter and the other disciple (JOHN) started for the tomb.

JOHN 20:4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first.

JOHN 20:5 He bent over and looked in at the "strips of linen" lying there but did not go in. (THE MUMMYING WRAPPINGS left behind!)

JOHN 20:6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the "strips of linen" lying there,

LUKE 24:12b Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.

JOHN 20:7 as well as the "burial cloth" that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth (SHROUD for HEAD) was folded up by itself, separate from the linen.

JOHN 20:8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. (JESUS HAD RISEN!0

JOHN 20:9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

JOHN 20:10 Then the (two? ALL?) disciples went back to their homes,

JOHN 20:11 but Mary (THE MAGDALENE) stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb

JOHN 20:12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

JOHN 20:13 They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?" "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him."

MARK 16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

JOHN 20:14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

JOHN 20:15 "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."

JOHN 20:16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).

JOHN 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to (GRASP) me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

MARK 16:10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping.

JOHN 20:18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

IF I AM RIGHT, THE GOSPELS ARE IN BASIC HARMONY !!

Which is what one would expect because they are telling the truth about events that actually happened, but one would expect some differences anyway because no two witnesses report what they have seen in exactly the same way.

Ron Gurley · Apr 13, 2017

IMPORTANT: The 4 Gospels + Acts chapters 1-12? include the reports of EYEWITNESSES. Oral tradition kept them fresh and alive until written.

The Jewish Nation was comprised of the world's greatest historians.
ORAL TRADITION was faithfully and accurately passed from generation to generation.
Most conservative scholars believe the "authors" of the 4 Gospels were 3 Apostles + DR. Luke, the investigator.
They were CONVERTED Jewish Christ-followers who wrote about their Divine Messiah, Jesus the Christ...under the NEW COVENANT!

There were 1000s of witnesses to the ministry of Jesus the God-Man.
There were 100-1000's of witnesses to the teachings and miracles of Jesus the God-Man.
There were 50 sent to spread the teachings, miracles... "Good News" of Jesus the God-Man.
There were 12 followers chosen to literally follow and live with Him. (Judas I. "fell away"!)...The apostolic chosen "messengers":
Matthew, John Mark (follower of Peter + Paul), John the Elder are traditionally the Apostolic "authors".
Dr. Luke took what was written (Mark?) and did more investigation (Luke + Acts (1-12?)
ALL of these were passed on by spirit-led ORAL TRADITION...the FACTS / news spread.
The disciples in the "upper room" were given spirit-led PERFECT RECALL.
About 50-100 years later the first WRITTEN products emerged...
Tough spirit-led chore:...Aramaic...Hebrew?...Koine Greek (the "universal language translation...dictation...writing...copying...preserving...distributing...
"canonizing...ETC

The Jewish Nation were master historians,
...both in verbal traditions and ancient writings...extreme attention to detail!

RELIABILITY:...spirit-led PERFECT RECALL.
John 14:26 (Jesus to his followers: Upper Room Discourse)
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (and DID!)

RE: "eyewitness accounts"...NOT necessarily WRITTEN
Definition of EYEWITNESS
Definition of EYEWITNESS
one who SEES an occurrence or an object;
especially : one who gives a REPORT on what he or she has seen...

Example of an EYEWITNESS:
The police are hoping to locate an eyewitness to the shooting.
He was able to give an (verbal!) "eyewitness account" of the shooting.

seashale76 · Apr 14, 2017

Dollars to doughnuts the 'Christians' polled by the BBC have never been in a church except for a wedding or a funeral. That word is pretty meaningless in some places these days.

SolomonVII · Apr 14, 2017

seashale76 said:
Dollars to doughnuts the 'Christians' polled by the BBC have never been in a church except for a wedding or a funeral. That word is pretty meaningless in some places these days.

Very few Brits even bother attending church now, don't they? The statistics on church attendance in Britain would bear out the odds of the bet you are making.

Not_By_Chance · Apr 14, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
IMPORTANT: The 4 Gospels + Acts chapters 1-12? include the reports of EYEWITNESSES. Oral tradition kept them fresh and alive until written.

The Jewish Nation was comprised of the world's greatest historians.
ORAL TRADITION was faithfully and accurately passed from generation to generation.
Most conservative scholars believe the "authors" of the 4 Gospels were 3 Apostles + DR. Luke, the investigator.
They were CONVERTED Jewish Christ-followers who wrote about their Divine Messiah, Jesus the Christ...under the NEW COVENANT!

There were 1000s of witnesses to the ministry of Jesus the God-Man.
There were 100-1000's of witnesses to the teachings and miracles of Jesus the God-Man.
There were 50 sent to spread the teachings, miracles... "Good News" of Jesus the God-Man.
There were 12 followers chosen to literally follow and live with Him. (Judas I. "fell away"!)...The apostolic chosen "messengers":
Matthew, John Mark (follower of Peter + Paul), John the Elder are traditionally the Apostolic "authors".
Dr. Luke took what was written (Mark?) and did more investigation (Luke + Acts (1-12?)
ALL of these were passed on by spirit-led ORAL TRADITION...the FACTS / news spread.
The disciples in the "upper room" were given spirit-led PERFECT RECALL.
About 50-100 years later the first WRITTEN products emerged...
Tough spirit-led chore:...Aramaic...Hebrew?...Koine Greek (the "universal language translation...dictation...writing...copying...preserving...distributing...
"canonizing...ETC

The Jewish Nation were master historians,
...both in verbal traditions and ancient writings...extreme attention to detail!

RELIABILITY:...spirit-led PERFECT RECALL.
John 14:26 (Jesus to his followers: Upper Room Discourse)
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (and DID!)

RE: "eyewitness accounts"...NOT necessarily WRITTEN
Definition of EYEWITNESS
Definition of EYEWITNESS
one who SEES an occurrence or an object;
especially : one who gives a REPORT on what he or she has seen...

Example of an EYEWITNESS:
The police are hoping to locate an eyewitness to the shooting.
He was able to give an (verbal!) "eyewitness account" of the shooting.

I've managed to find my four copies of the Brian Edward's set, "How do we know the Bible it true?" and it's fascinating stuff. Clearly this man is very knowledgeable and very passionate about his belief in the inerrancy of scripture, such that he makes the point that our Bible is a collection of books that is:-

Fixed in their number
Divine in their origin
Universal in their authority

I have just watched the first two videos again, "Scripture under Scrutiny" and "Why 66? The Canon of Scripture." The next one is "The Life of William Tyndale" which will be somewhat different to the first two videos, as will the last one in the series entitled, "The Authentic Christ." The last one is in fact my favourite because it reveals facts in the accounts of Jesus that probably wouldn't be noticed from a supeficial reading of the texts, such as the role and significance of the women in discovering the empty tomb that I mentioned earlier. Since some, if not all of these videos can be watched online, I would definitely recommend watching them as they are packed full of useful and relevant information about the Christian faith.

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