Signs of the Times... what do you see?
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keras
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Note that this prophecy is repeated virtually word for word in Psalms 18:7-15.
Parousia, you have made a very seriously wrong assertion by says David saw what he said in his song to God. In all of his battles David simply used the normal weapons of the time, including the slingshot. God was with him and so he prevailed.
David was a prophet and he was the prophesied forerunner of Jesus.
Thinking that this and other prophesies are past events because they are written in past tense is a mistake, as they plainly have not occurred yet. Reading about David's adventures, there is no hint of God actually helping him in the way described.
But as these things are possible and they relate to many other prophesies about the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, we should take careful note of what will happen in the last days.
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keras
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Artaxerxes decree was fulfilled by Nehemiah.
How was it possible for Newton to have the truth about the end times? Daniel 12:9
Bad moon? I didn't know the moon could go bad. Maybe it is green cheese after all!
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What do you think the possibilities are of "this generation" being synonymous with "this race" and why / why not?
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- Feb 24, 2002
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1) By taking the other uses of "this generation" by Christ and replacing it with "race" we can tell this doesn't work:
Matthew 11:16
But whereunto shall I liken this RACE? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this RACE, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Matthew 12:42
The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this RACE, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Matthew 12:45
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked RACE.
Mark 8:12
And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this RACE seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this RACE.
Mark 8:38
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful RACE; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Luke 7:31
And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this RACE? and to what are they like?
Luke 11:29
And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil RACE: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Luke 11:30
For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this RACE.
Luke 11:31
The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this RACE, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Luke 11:32
The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this RACE, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this RACE;
Luke 11:51
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this RACE.
Luke 17:25
But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this RACE.
Acts 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward RACE.
Which brings us back to:
Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This RACE shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(so that means this Race WILL pass away once "all these things" are fulfilled?)
Perhaps, because....
2) There is no Jewish Race today.
Today's Jews are a multi-Ethnic conglomeration of peoples who follow the Post-Christian religion of the Talmud.
The have no relationship to the Pre-desolation Hebrew peoples whatsoever.
Not Religiously, Not Politically, Not genetically.
Those are the reasons I do not view Generation as synonymous with Race.
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I seriously doubt that you can find any word where all of its possible meanings can be used interchangeably everywhere. The question is, is the use of the meaning "race" a likely possibility in the specific case of Matthew 24:34? It seems to fit.
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Well then, it seems you would have to conclude that "all these things" of Matt 24:34 have indeed taken place, since there is no longer a Jewish Race.
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2 Samuel 22
7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
Two definitions for Then:
David's: "At the very time that I called upon the LORD..."
Yours: "More than 2,000 years, and still counting, after I called upon the LORD..."
Which one would the LORD choose?
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keras
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My Bible version does not have 'Then' at the start of verse 8, or in Psalms 18:7.
What is described in that prophecy has not occurred yet. There is no record of the cosmic and earth shattering events as described, having happened at anytime in history.
We await their literal fulfilment in the future and denial of that truth is a serious mistake, leaving those who prefer to hide their heads in the sand, in the dark about what God plans for our future.
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The KJV and NASB include "Then" and render it in past tense. The YLT renders it in present tense. Which version do you use?
David said these phenomena occurred; to deny them is to disbelieve him. But what he was of course describing was God's intervention and judgment encapsulated symbolically in the metaphoric apocalyptic idiom, of which there are a number of scriptural examples, of which I'm sure you're aware. To literalize these detaches them from what they are describing, and renders them illogical and incomprehensible. To recognize them as symbolic recognizes the impact of the power of God's intervention to David personally at that time.
David was telling it like it was, using the vivid symbolic language of his choosing.
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Those familiar with prophesy would know it can switch from one guy talking to something in the future. Example, Jesus talking. Look at Ps 22. You think that was David!!!? Ha
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David was certainly alluding prophetically to Christ. But it was still David who was speaking, not Christ.
Can you cite any commentator who claims that it was actually Christ speaking?
Just a little English spelling advice - you want the noun prophecy, not the verb prophesy.
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How about this?
Our Saviour's example in this pleading that God had indeed heard and answered the prayers of "the fathers," is a strong argument that in our own prayers, we should recall and recite in God's presence the occasions upon which he has already heard and answered our petitions.
But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised of the people.
All they that see me laugh me to scorn:
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying
Commit thyself unto Jehovah; let him deliver him:
Let him rescue him, seeing he delighteth in him."
Psalms 22:6). Jesus is not speaking here of his own estimate of his own true importance and worth, but of the estimate that his enemies have made concerning him, as proved by the second half of the verse. He is despised (as men despise a worm) and is not recognized by his contemporaries as a human being with rights.F6
They laugh me to scorn. shoot out the lip ... shake (or wag) the head
(Psalms 22:7). The apostle Matthew recorded the fulfillment of this: They that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads (Matthew 27:39).
Let him (God) deliver him, seeing he delighteth in him
(Psalms 22:8). These were the very words of Christ's enemies while he suffered upon the Cross. He trusteth in God; let him deliver him, if he desireth him (Matthew 27:43).
Psalm - Chapter 22 - Coffman's Commentary of the New Testament on StudyLight.org
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keras
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I use the Revised English Bible, Oxford Press 1989. It is the best translation from all available texts, into modern English, conveying the meaning in an easy to understand manner.
But those phenomena didn't actually occur then, there is no other record of such worldwide and cosmic events. David's battles were won with God's help, sure, but not in such an overt way!
It is not illogical nor incomprehensible to fit David's prophecies with the many others made by all the prophets, incl Jesus, about the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath.
They all tell of how God intends to once again reset the worlds civilization, that has now fallen to a state; as in the days of Noah. Matthew 24:27-29
He promised Noah, that never again would He use water to judge and punish the world. But we are very clearly told: this time God will use fire, Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7, + over 100 other vividly descriptions of what will soon happen.
We Christians should not be in the dark about what God intends to do and it will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will literally fulfill what we have been so comprehensively told throughout our Bibles, will happen. It will set the scene for the establishment of a One World Govt, and all that is prophesied to happen, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.
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No disagreement here; unarguably referring to Christ. But again, it is David who is conveying the message. As Bro. Coffman himself says "...a predictive prophecy of the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ, written by King David, of course, but having little or no reference whatever to that monarch."
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