Revelation 12: Heavenly Sign to Appear in 2017

SeventyOne

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Well a lot of that hasn't actually been fulfilled some people think it has so that's why I asked but I find that reasoning doubtful.
I don't think a lot that can even be fulfilled by the 23/11/17
People aren't going to be raptured up on that date.

Well, the sign is in September, not in November, and I'm not the one responsible for ensuring the events are set in motion by a particular date. However, the One who set the sign in the heavens and declared the corresponding events as well has the ability to make everything occur as quickly or as slowly as He wants. I don't have to worry about any of that.
 
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dougangel

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Well, the sign is in September, not in November

Sorry. I didn't check that. I've got it mixed up. It is September I've forgotten.

and I'm not the one responsible for ensuring the events are set in motion by a particular date.

No one said you were.

However, the One who set the sign in the heavens and declared the corresponding events as well has the ability to make everything occur as quickly or as slowly as He wants. I don't have to worry about any of that.

There is many possible triggers or interpretations on that sign and it is very symbolic stuff. There are many post trib rapture people. So whether your view is from God or not is very controversial. You are making that claim.I guess your going to have egg on your face if your still here after the date.
 
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SeventyOne

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Sorry. I didn't check that. I've got it mixed up. It is September I've forgotten.



No one said you were.



There is many possible triggers or interpretations on that sign and it is very symbolic stuff. There are many post trib rapture people. So whether your view is from God or not is very controversial. You are making that claim.I guess your going to have egg on your face if your still here after the date.

I won't have any egg on my face actually. Zero. I didn't make the sign, I didn't place it there, I only recognized it's existence. It's not like I'm a date setter, blowing my own horn because I claim to have figured something out. There was nothing to figure out here. There it is in the sky on the Feast of Trumpets.

People can choose to ignore it or try to explain it away, that's their right. But there is no actual explaining it away. It's there, like it or not. People may just have to let go of some of their pride and reexamine their positions, as I did.
 
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dougangel

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I won't have any egg on my face actually. Zero. I didn't make the sign, I didn't place it there, I only recognized it's existence. It's not like I'm a date setter, blowing my own horn because I claim to have figured something out. There was nothing to figure out here. There it is in the sky on the Feast of Trumpets.

People can choose to ignore it or try to explain it away, that's their right. But there is no actual explaining it away. It's there, like it or not. People may just have to let go of some of their pride and reexamine their positions, as I did.

That sign could be triggering quite a few things.

Dictionaries - Smith's Bible Dictionary - Trumpets, Feast of
Trumpets, Feast of, [E]
( Numbers 29:1 ; Leviticus 23:24 ) the feast of the new moon, which fell on the first of Tisri. It differed from the ordinary festivals of the new moon in several important particulars. It was one of the seven days of holy convocation. Instead of the mere blowing of the trumpets of the temple at the time of the offering of the sacrifices, it was "a day of blowing of trumpets." In addition to the daily sacrifices and the eleven victims offered on the first of every month, there were offered a young bullock, a ram and seven lambs of the first year, with the accustomed meat offerings, and a kid for a sin offering. ( Numbers 29:1-6 ) The regular monthly offering was thus repeated, with the exception of the young bullock. It has been conjectured that (Psalms 81:1 ) ... one of the songs of Asaph, was composed expressly for the Feast of Trumpets. The psalm is used in the service for the day by the modern Jews. Various meanings have been assigned to the Feast of Trumpets; but there seems to be no sufficient reason to call in question the common opinion of Jews and Christians, that if was the festival of the New Years day of the civil year, the first of Tisri, the month which commenced the sabbatical year and the year of jubilee. [E] indicates this entry was also found in Easton's Bible Dictionary

What does that have to do with the rapture ?
Christ has fulfilled the feast of trumpets among many other things.
 
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SeventyOne

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That sign could be triggering quite a few things.

Dictionaries - Smith's Bible Dictionary - Trumpets, Feast of
Trumpets, Feast of, [E]
( Numbers 29:1 ; Leviticus 23:24 ) the feast of the new moon, which fell on the first of Tisri. It differed from the ordinary festivals of the new moon in several important particulars. It was one of the seven days of holy convocation. Instead of the mere blowing of the trumpets of the temple at the time of the offering of the sacrifices, it was "a day of blowing of trumpets." In addition to the daily sacrifices and the eleven victims offered on the first of every month, there were offered a young bullock, a ram and seven lambs of the first year, with the accustomed meat offerings, and a kid for a sin offering. ( Numbers 29:1-6 ) The regular monthly offering was thus repeated, with the exception of the young bullock. It has been conjectured that (Psalms 81:1 ) ... one of the songs of Asaph, was composed expressly for the Feast of Trumpets. The psalm is used in the service for the day by the modern Jews. Various meanings have been assigned to the Feast of Trumpets; but there seems to be no sufficient reason to call in question the common opinion of Jews and Christians, that if was the festival of the New Years day of the civil year, the first of Tisri, the month which commenced the sabbatical year and the year of jubilee. [E] indicates this entry was also found in Easton's Bible Dictionary

What does that have to do with the rapture ?
Christ has fulfilled the feast of trumpets among many other things.

I don't know where you are getting Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Trumpets yet, but that is one of the reasons people are looking at the Feast for the rapture (not the only reason) because He fulfilled the 4 spring feasts in order during His first coming.

1. Passover - Jesus Died as the sacrificial lamb
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread - Jesus Buried
3. First Fruits - Jesus rose from the dead
4. Pentecost - Holy Spirit given

The Feast of Trumpets is the next on the calendar. Like you mentioned, it's a holy convocation, a gathering of the Lord's people together. The Feast is marked by the idiom of the day where no one knows the day or the hour because it didn't begin until two witnesses spotted the sliver of the new moon from the Temple and it lasts for two days but is only treated as a single day. It is also marked by the blowing of trumpets, 99 blasts followed by a 100th long blast which was known as the last trump. Both of these idioms are used when describing the rapture of the Church.

In 1 Cor 15:52, it tells us that this last trump will be blown at the time of the twinkling of an eye, which is another idiom signifying the evening, the moment in time where the 2nd and 3rd stars in the sky become visible to the naked eye. So we have the time of day pinpointed to the evening when the new moon is spotted, signifying the start of the Feast of Trumpets when the trumpets are sounded with 100 blasts, including the 'last trump'.

There are a lot of places on the Internet with a lot more detail concerning this connection. And since the sign of the rapture, the catching up of the manchild is appearing on the Feast of Trumpets this year, it's an exciting thing to see.
 
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dougangel

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I don't know where you are getting Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Trumpets yet, but that is one of the reasons people are looking at the Feast for the rapture (not the only reason) because He fulfilled the 4 spring feasts in order during His first coming.

If the law wasn't fulfilled by Jesus Christians would still have to keep those feasts and Sabbaths.

1 cor 15:51
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The living and the dead are raised incorruptible this can't happen at a pre rapture

Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The righteous living are changed with the righteous dead. When does this happen ? At the 2nd coming.
The last trump is at the 2nd coming.

1. Passover - Jesus Died as the sacrificial lamb
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread - Jesus Buried
3. First Fruits - Jesus rose from the dead
4. Pentecost - Holy Spirit given

this can be and makes more sense to be symbolically finished off at the day of the second coming.
 
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SeventyOne

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If the law wasn't fulfilled by Jesus Christians would still have to keep those feasts and Sabbaths.

1 cor 15:51
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The living and the dead are raised incorruptible this can't happen at a pre rapture

Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The righteous living are changed with the righteous dead. When does this happen ? At the 2nd coming.
The last trump is at the 2nd coming.



this can be and makes more sense to be symbolically finished off at the day of the second coming.

The observation of the feasts by the Jews was established under the Law, but if you read that passage where they were given carefully, the Lord said those days were His feast days. The Jews were only commanded to recognize them. On the other hand, Christians were given no such command to observe His feast days in the same manner, so we do not.

Lev 23:2-3 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, These are the appointed feasts of the LORD that you shall proclaim as holy convocations; they are my appointed feasts.

However, in the coming Kingdom, usually people are surprised to see that both Jews and Gentiles will be going to Jerusalem annually to observe the Feast of Booths. They are His feast days after all, not the property of a particular people group.

And I'm not going to discuss pre or post-trib rapture on this thread. I don't particularly care if others are pre-trib or not. I'm perfectly fine with that disagreement. It is interesting though that in Isaiah 26, within the context of a woman giving birth (Rev 12 sign) the living and the dead belonging to the Lord are caught up to be with Him prior to His punishing the inhabitants of the earth.
 
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dougangel

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And I'm not going to discuss pre or post-trib rapture on this thread. I don't particularly care if others are pre-trib or not. I'm perfectly fine with that disagreement. It is interesting though that in Isaiah 26, within the context of a woman giving birth (Rev 12 sign) the living and the dead belonging to the Lord are caught up to be with Him prior to His punishing the inhabitants of the earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 King (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The last trump is at the 2nd coming and this is quite clear.
 
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Dave Watchman

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Good thread.

I'm not too sure about that.

Something to look forward to.

I'm not too sure about that. Not if this video guy is right. I don't know who he is but it's a fairly well done video. The guy in the video thinks that the Revelation 12 sign means fire from the sky is on the way. He mentions the Sodomite situation. It's a fairly spooky video actually. So proceed with caution.


"But on the day when Lot went out from Sodom,
fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all
—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I'm not too sure about that.



I'm not too sure about that. Not if this video guy is right. I don't know who he is but it's a fairly well done video. The guy in the video thinks that the Revelation 12 sign means fire from the sky is on the way. He mentions the Sodomite situation. It's a fairly spooky video actually. So proceed with caution.


"But on the day when Lot went out from Sodom,
fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all
—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

I still think it is a good thread. and if this is true, Hallelujah! Our redemption draws nigh! :clap: :pray: .
 
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Dave Watchman I was just thinking about Ezekiel 38.
Do you think the firestorm mentioned in the video could be this?
Ezek. 38: 18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.

King James Version (KJV)
 
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Dave Watchman

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Our redemption draws nigh! :clap: :pray: .

When that is the case, I'll be happy to see you in the air. :)

But what I think is going to happen will be a couple months after the September sign.

In the video, the guy does a pretty good job of showing an animation of how Jupiter does the retrograde dance inside the boundary lines, the body, of Virgo. What I find interesting is the actual days that Jupiter enters and exits Virgo, which then compares with a solar eclipse.

It really is the last seven weeks of this year that I find as a zone of interest. This zone begins after Jupiter exits the body of Virgo and is then joined in a conjunction with Venus. The two brightest planets in our solar system pair up which can serve to underscore or to "reveal" Jupiter's presence in our visible sky.

So I don't think that it's the sight of the conjunction itself that I would worry about seeing, but the number of days that it marks out measuring to new years day and then a solar eclipse a year latter.

This is a previous Jupiter/Venus conjunction from New Zealand:

venusjupiter30june-1.jpg


Dave Watchman I was just thinking about Ezekiel 38.
Do you think the firestorm mentioned in the video could be this?

I hate to say that I don't think so. Because if you are right, it means that it only is going to happen in the middle east or in Israel.

But if I'm right, if the guy from the video is right, this is going to come as a snare on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

If anyone could know for sure that a "third" of the earth was about to be burnt up, it would be pretty hard to live with.
 
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When that is the case, I'll be happy to see you in the air. :)

:)
In the video, the guy does a pretty good job of showing an animation of how Jupiter does the retrograde dance inside the boundary lines, the body, of Virgo. What I find interesting is the actual days that Jupiter enters and exits Virgo, which then compares with a solar eclipse.

He points out that the Earth will pass through the rings of the wandering planet after this happens though. And he thinks the nations that have signed laws legalizing Sodomy will feel the brunt of the meteor storm to hit the Earth. The passage I posted shows a meteor storm that falls on Gog and Magog. With what we see happening in the ME today with Syria, Russia, Iran, and the US, we can see something definitely shaping up.
I hate to say that I don't think so. Because if you are right, it means that it only is going to happen in the middle east or in Israel.

But if I'm right, if the guy from the video is right, this is going to come as a snare on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

If anyone could know for sure that a "third" of the earth was about to be burnt up, it would be pretty hard to live with.

The way I see it, it lines up with the prophecy in Ezekiel 38 and possibly Isaiah 17. I don't think it would be limited at all because it says the whole Earth is going to shake.

Ezek. 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Isa. 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
 
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dougangel

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I'm not too sure about that. Not if this video guy is right. I don't know who he is but it's a fairly well done video. The guy in the video thinks that the Revelation 12 sign means fire from the sky is on the way. He mentions the Sodomite situation. It's a fairly spooky video actually. So proceed with caution.

I don't know where to start with that video. There is so many things I can comment on.Till you get to the Jupiter bit. It is explaining the revelation 12 sign really well with the astronomy but he doesn't mention the 10 horns and dragon piece.
The Jupiter thing is nonsense. The science just isn't right.

the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Isaiah 13:10
The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.
19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the pride and glory of the Babylonians,
will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah.

Isaiah 34:4
All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree.
5 My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens;
see, it descends in judgment on Edom,
the people I have totally destroyed.

Ezekiel 32:7
When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light.
Son of man, take up a lament concerning Pharaoh king of Egypt and say to him:
7 When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars;
I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light.
8 All the shining lights in the heavens
I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land,
declares the Sovereign Lord.

Joel 2:10
Before them the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.
Joel 2:31
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
Joel 3:15
The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine.

This is apocalyptic language.
Prophets using highly shocking non literal language to make a point and get the readers or hearers attention. This is a technique used all through the bible. It can't be understood in a modern literal scientific manner.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

After the sacking of Jerusalem (the temple) and tribulation of Israel being dispersed. Israel has gone into darkness. So that part has been fulfilled. Jesus warned the disciples and they knew that apocalyptic language and the early disciples sold there property and go out of Jerusalem

When you get the sun the moon the stars going dark or loosing lighting this is sign of calamity for that nation or empire. Being destroyed or sacked or taken into slavery. That nation or empire, going into darkness

The video has bible quotes which is not understanding the real meaning of the destruction quotes.
 
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Dave Watchman

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He points out that the Earth will pass through the rings of the wandering planet after this happens though. And he thinks the nations that have signed laws legalizing Sodomy will feel the brunt of the meteor storm to hit the Earth. The passage I posted shows a meteor storm that falls on Gog and Magog. With what we see happening in the ME today with Syria, Russia, Iran, and the US, we can see something definitely shaping up.

I still say that I'm doubtful. I remember talking to you and Keras before about it, it never seems like a popular discussion. I remember the video you posted of those Jewish guys worshiping at the tomb of David.

It was a little bit funny but it's not nice to laugh..(sorry man)

"Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me,.....and I will dwell in their midst forever."
I can't vouch for the author of the video. He sure does seem to believe in what he's talking about. And he mentions Ezekiel 38 around 9 minutes in. But the Gog Magog from Ezekiel can't happen now. Our Gog Magog from Revelation 20 won't happen until after the thousand years are finished. And we're not there yet.

I watched the video a couple more times, I won't sleep again tonight, and also question many of the author's statements:

"Dawn in the shadow of congress. It is the day of the great sign. Forerunners of the firestorm of the golden empire streak the sky. The end is within hours.

I wonder where he gets "the golden empire" from? And he thinks there will be another 3 hour eclipse like during the Crucifixion. Something big gets between us and the sun? If that really happens and there's a global eclipse sending the wold into three hours of darkness, people will rush home to be with their loved ones thinking that the world is ending. And if the eclipse ends and everyone is still alive, they'll probably breathe a sigh of relief. They'll not only have "peace", but they'll also have "safety".

Don't worry about it.
 
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Dave Watchman

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Joel 2:31
The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

This is apocalyptic language.

Yes it is.

Prophets using highly shocking non literal language to make a point and get the readers or hearers attention.

I'm not too sure about that.

This is a technique used all through the bible. It can't be understood in a modern literal scientific manner.

I'm not too sure about that.

Check it out:

"The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon to blood before.

I think this is talking about a specific solar eclipse, a full eclipse where the sun is turned into darkness (all dark).

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened.

Joel is different than Matthew 24, they are two different solar eclipses. The Matthew eclipse is a partial solar, it is not turned into darkness, just merely "darkened".

Both the "moon to blood" and the "moon will not give her light" are talking about real lunar eclipses that are part of the celestial cycle. 14 days apart are the closest that a solar and lunar eclipse can occur as part of normal celestial mechanics.

Joel also says "before", which could indicate a variance of time prior to. But Matthew reads, not only "after", but "Immediately after" which seems to be indicative of no wiggle room at all.

Here are some examples of counts of days that can occur in between sets of solar and lunar eclipses with (O) signifying a solar and (o) signifying a lunar.

(O)14(o) <------------1588------------> (O)14(o)
(O)14(o) <----------1550----------> (O)14(o)
(O)14(o) <---------1372---------> (O)14(o)
(O)14(o) <--------1209--------> (O)14(o)
(O)14(o) <------1195------> (O)14(o)


<----1260---->
<-----1290-----> 0.976744186046512
<------1335------> 0.966292134831461
<-------1372-------> 0.973032069970845

I guess in God's economy of numbers, it's possible that the 18 prophetic time periods from His Holy Word could coincidentally compare with other specifications of items that He also created like: the Sun, the Earth and the Moon. It could still be called a coincidence that this 1372 day slot in the solar and lunar cycle seems to line up so well with numbers written in the book of Daniel 2600 years ago.

graph%2022%20medium_zpsvcokk5jn.jpg



I entered the numbers into the bar graph but you can also divide them into each other.

And notice that we get a full solar eclipse where the sun is "turned into darkness" "before",,, and then a partial solar eclipse where the sun is merely "darkened" on the right hand side.



Tetrad%20bg1%20large%201372%20E_zpsbrwhtedd.jpg


The original PDF that I used to make this screen shot was made by Luis Vega. It went all the way back to the 4 blood moons from 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue. On a time scale that long these eclipse groupings that are 14 days apart looked like a bunch of single dots on a long line.
 
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Keras has been warning us of a massive CME destroying most of the ME and he has posted supporting scripture. Have you been watching the sun? I sort of think Keras is right. There are massive coronal dark holes occurring in our sun. So, if we have a solar eclipse coupled with a huge coronal dark hole with a CME, that could really shake the Earth.

That link you posted has a lot of deleted posts???
 
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Dave Watchman

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Keras has been warning us of a massive CME destroying most of the ME and he has posted supporting scripture. Have you been watching the sun?

I used to watch those videos with the guy with the southern accent. But I don't anymore.

I sort of think Keras is right.

It's nice to know that he has a fan. Bless his heart.

There are massive coronal dark holes occurring in our sun. So, if we have a solar eclipse coupled with a huge coronal dark hole with a CME, that could really shake the Earth.

You never know.

That link you posted has a lot of deleted posts???

Yes, the OP got mad and tried to DELETE his thread. That can often happen when I talk about Ezekiel.

Sorry :)
 
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