Signs of the Times... what do you see?

Brian45

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The best part about all this speculation is that nobody doing the speculating has to be held accountable for it... and when, once again, the thing speculated to happen by the speculated date fails to transpire on time as speculated, the speculators can just move the date out farther and farther each time, and continue to speculate about the things that are "about to happen at any moment now, soon, at hand, near and without delay, right around the corner in 2017, or 18, or 19, or 22, or 30, 35, 40, 55, 70, 85, 2100, 2200, 2500....
Yep Jesus said "THIS" generation and the apostles believed him and wrote thus , and futurists seem to have a hard time with that. Not sure why but maybe some here lacking in the brain box dept.
 
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dad

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That is correct. That was His generation.
The problem with listening to people who don't believe prophesy discuss prophesy is that they do not understand what they are discussing. In this case, I see that a certain sign was talked about that could not have been fulfilled in the past.

Mat 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Now once that sign comes, the clock is running to the very end. It will be a matter of years.

Da 12:11 -And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days

Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

If the people in Jesus' day started heading for the hills when something was set up in the temple, they would have been as silly as people now that thought Jesus was talking about that time.
 
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parousia70

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The problem with listening to people who don't believe prophesy discuss prophesy is that they do not understand what they are discussing.

Actrually, the problem here is your false accusation that recognizing a prophesy as having been fulfilled means one doesn't believe in prophesy

Since you yourself think that Christ's birth, death, resurrection and ascension are ALL in the past, does that mean you don't believe in the prophesies that foretell of those events? REALLY?

That is EXACTLY what you are saying and want us to believe dad.
Your premise is demonstrably false.

In this case, I see that a certain sign was talked about that could not have been fulfilled in the past.

Mat 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Have you read Luke's account?

Luke 21:20-22
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Scripture interprets scripture dad.
Parallel passages can not be interpreted to have opposite meanings from each other.

In both matts and Luke's account it's the SAME "WHEN YOU SEE", the SAME "DESOLATION", and the "SAME TIME TO FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS".

This is all behind us as scripture and history testify.
 
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jgr

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If the people in Jesus' day started heading for the hills when something was set up in the temple, they would have been as silly as people now that thought Jesus was talking about that time.

It is in the historical record that the Jerusalem Christians remembered and heeded Christ's admonition as the predicted events were unfolding, fled Jerusalem, and were thus spared the ensuing horrors. Silly they weren't.

Consult the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus.
 
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Dave Watchman

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Have you read Luke's account?

Luke 21's "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" is not the same thing as Matthew 24's "abomination of desolation".

If you want to read Luke's account of Matthew 24's abomination of desolation, you have to read chapter 17.

The abomination of desolation (Let The Reader Understand)

Matthew 24:

“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak.

Luke 17:

"Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man.They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

"Jerusalem surrounded by armies" from Luke 21, is not the same thing as the "abomination of desolation" from Matthew 24. The abomination of desolation is the equivalent of the destruction of Jerusalem but on an end time global scale. Look closely at the repercussions of the two very different events. Look at how the specifications are similar but have gone global at the end time abomination of desolation, the whole world is involved. If the days after the abomination of desolation are not "cut short', there would be no flesh saved alive.

Regional repercussions when Luke 21's "Jerusalem was surrounded by armies":
  • Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,
  • and let those who are inside the city depart,
  • and let not those who are out in the country enter it,
  • for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
  • Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!
  • For there will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.
  • They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Global repercussions after Matthew 24"s "the abomination of desolation":
  • then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
  • Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house,
  • and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak.
  • And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!
  • Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
  • For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
  • And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
 
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Dave Watchman

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In both matts and Luke's account it's the SAME "WHEN YOU SEE", the SAME "DESOLATION", and the "SAME TIME TO FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS".

This is all behind us as scripture and history testify.

I'm sorry parousia, I'm afraid that it's not all behind us yet.

Matthew's AofD says that when you see it standing in the "holy place". Where, in your opinion, was that "holy place" in the 1st century during the destruction of Jerusalem? Their kingdom was being taken from them, the curtain in the temple was rent, God had left the building and they were about to feast on a banquet of repercussions. Where was the "holy place".

Even if you still consider that at the time some part of the temple still remained "holy", if they waited until the Titus army stood there in the middle of the temple it would still be too late to flee.

It would be too late of an indicator.
 
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dad

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Actrually, the problem here is your false accusation that recognizing a prophesy as having been fulfilled means one doesn't believe in prophesy
Actually I was talking about prophesy that still involves the future, not fulfilled prophesy. Your false accusation is noted.

Have you read Luke's account?

Luke 21:20-22
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Scripture interprets scripture dad.

Looking at that chapter in Luke, we see this.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Anyone that thinks that happened must be kidding.
This is all behind us as scripture and history testify.
When did they see Jesus coming in power from heaven in clouds exactly?!

GONG.
 
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dad

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It is in the historical record that the Jerusalem Christians remembered and heeded Christ's admonition as the predicted events were unfolding, fled Jerusalem, and were thus spared the ensuing horrors. Silly they weren't.

Consult the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus.
Absurd to try to apply that to Jesus returning in power. That was just a small taste of things to come.
 
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jgr

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Absurd to try to apply that to Jesus returning in power. That was just a small taste of things to come.

Right on. The Jerusalem Christians were both silly and absurd. But I'm sure they didn't care.

They were alive.
 
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parousia70

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You think they thought Jesus returned in the clouds in power then? Ha.

They would have thought nothing else BUT that!

For they, unlike you, were intimately familiar with the use of such apocalyptic language and how it was to be properly interpreted.

Just as God came in the clouds in power and glory MULTIPLE TIMES through the Old Testament to bring judgement upon individual nations, Christ The Cornerstone, lord of the vineyard, came and crushed the wicked men to powder, (Matthew 21:33-45) and the remnant escaped by recognizing the time to flee, JUST AS THEIR MASTER INSTRUCTED THEM TO. (Luke 21:20-22)

They could have understood the passing of this event before there very eyes in no other way.
 
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dad

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They would have thought nothing else BUT that!
Despite your wishful thinking, it is absurd to think that men full of the Holy Ghost with sound minds would have thought they saw Christ returning in power and glory on clouds from heaven.
For they, unlike you, were intimately familiar with the use of such apocalyptic language and how it was to be properly interpreted.
They were well versed in Scripture actually frequently quoting prophets like Isaiah. They also spent years with Jesus.
Just as God came in the clouds in power and glory MULTIPLE TIMES through the Old Testament to bring judgement upon individual nations, Christ The Cornerstone, lord of the vineyard, came and crushed the wicked men to powder, (Matthew 21:33-45) and the remnant escaped by recognizing the time to flee, JUST AS THEIR MASTER INSTRUCTED THEM TO. (Luke 21:20-22)
Nonsense.

He said He would return, and all the prophets talked about it. Never did it happen, obviously.

Never did all Israel get saved, see Him whom they pierced coming, have someone plant his palaces in Israel, and set up THE abomination of desolation, and then have Jesus Personally throw him into the lake of fire...etc etc.
 
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Sammy-San

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I believe that some of the things that are sure signs are the increasing unexplained events in the sky, combined with the confusion with what is true....With everyone having a camera and video recorder in their phone, we are seeing vast recordings and pictures of unusual phenomenon in the sky. Even including very loud unexplainable sounds.

Then, with the whole election in the states and since, it is apparent that nobody really knows which news is the truth and what is false. Not to mention that the CIA and FBI is now not trustworthy. No matter where information is coming from, we have no standard or datum set as to what is truth.

Knowledge is increasing at a phenomenal rate. Interest in the paranormal and dealings with the supernatural. Movies and entertainment that focuses on beings with super abilities and connections with other dimensional powers and worlds.

How should Christians view paranormal activity?

The other source of supernatural power is demonic. That's an important point to stress: if the paranormal activity is not of God, it is demonic. Period. There is no other type of paranormal activity and there is no neutral paranormal activity. There is God, and there are demons who want to destroy us.

Do you view it improper to use the word paranormal for God?
 
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parousia70

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Despite your wishful thinking, it is absurd to think that men full of the Holy Ghost with sound minds would have thought they saw Christ returning in power and glory on clouds from heaven.

So again, you believe David was hallucinating when He saw God do these things during his battle with Saul?:

(2 Samuel 22:8-16)
8“Then the earth shook and trembled;
The foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken,
Because He was angry.
9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down
With darkness under His feet.
11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 He made darkness canopies around Him,
Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
13 From the brightness before Him
Coals of fire were kindled.

14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice.
15 He sent out arrows and scattered them;
Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them.
16 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered,
At the rebuke of the Lord,
At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

So David was simply mistaken in your view?
Or maybe he was Lying?
 
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dad

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So again, you believe David was hallucinating when He saw God do these things during his battle with Saul?:

(2 Samuel 22:8-16)
8“Then the earth shook and trembled;
The foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken,
Because He was angry.
9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down
With darkness under His feet.
11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 He made darkness canopies around Him,
Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
13 From the brightness before Him
Coals of fire were kindled.

14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice.
15 He sent out arrows and scattered them;
Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them.
16 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered,
At the rebuke of the Lord,
At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

So David was simply mistaken in your view?
Or maybe he was Lying?
Or maybe he was a prophet. You do realize most of what are now called the messianic psalms were not known to be such before the time of Jesus? They thought it was talking about something local and long gone, when actually they were profound, startling prophecies.

When one compiles a list of the events of the day of the Lord, regarding the final days of man before God comes to earth to rule (you do get that much right?) one stats to be able to recognize the events i various prophecies.

Conversely, I suppose when one ignores prophesy of the day of the Lord in the final years of man, one probably learns to view all prophesies of the future as having been distant memories.
 
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Dave Watchman

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I'm not looking for debate here.
I would rather we don't debate. I don't care if you are pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.
Jesus said we ought to be watching for His coming, and He told us to watch for the signs.

What have you seen recently, that looks to you like a sign of the end?

Something that excited me today, was when I read about what the Jewish year 5777 means, to rabbis.
5 is the number of Grace.
And 7 is the number of completion.
And 3 repetitions means it's the hand of God at work.

Putting it all together, 5777 means, according to many Jewish rabbis, the year that God completes the work of Grace!

Ephesians 3:2-6 tells us that we are now living in the dispensation of Grace, which is the Gentiles being included in the body of Christ.

Of course, Jesus said there is a time in the future, when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. Luke 21:24

And Paul said in Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved...

Could this be the year? I am not setting a date... but I'm just wondering.
Watching, waiting, and wondering.

I remember how that in 1917, the Balfour Declaration was issued, opening the land of Palestine to Jewish settlement.
And exactly 50 years later, in the 6-day war, Israel gained control of Jerusalem.

This year, 2017... the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar... is exactly 50 years later.
I'm sitting on the edge of my seat!

Me too.

There's probably too too many signs than can be easily listed on this page. And I think some people are worried about it though. I used to be, but not any more. The carnal mind likes to think that things will continue on forever just like it did since the fathers fell asleep. Think about what Jesus said, our redemption draweth near and the sons of God are revealed. All of them. What a sight that would be to see.

I also see triple sevens coming up fast where nobody else noticed them. 777 days after Jupiter enters into the body of Jupiter and until the sun is "darkened"..

Isaac Newton* said that there would be a modern day command to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem.

"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,'

All that we would have to do is to just add 49 years, "the compass of a Jubilee", to that modern day command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One comes.

In 1969 the Knesset gave the order and set up a governmental agency to restore and to rebuild the old City of Jerusalem.

9th of Av 1994 came along, a logical conclusion to the Jubilee calendar after 7 sets of 70 weeks since the Exodus, and Comet Shoemaker - Levy 9 hit Jupiter hard.

21 impacts over a 6 day period.

The largest explosions ever witnessed by mankind, 600 times the world's nuclear arsenal, and some of the holes made in Jupiter were big enough for the Earth to fit into..

1994 + 21 = 2015 and there's a Bad Third Moon Rising.

1372 days latter and another Bad Moon rises 14 days after the "darkened" sun on January 21.

1290 days before that "darkened" sun, the United States became the 21st nation to legalize same sex marriage.

DS/AofD<-------1290days------->EofW

DS/AofD<-------1290days------->Sun/Moon

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Jupiter enters into the body of Virgo, and there's 777 days until the sun is "darkened" and the moon will not give it's light..

Jupiter exits the body of Virgo and is then joined in conjunction with Venus 420 days before the sun is "darkened" and the moon will not give her light.

420 days, a "third" of 1260, is preceded by a period of seven "sevens" or 49 days that transpire prior to a 370 day period leading right up to the "darkened" sun.

370 days are a scholarly calculation of the time that Noah spent inside the ark.

"Just like in the days of Noah.

"For the LORD has a day of vengeance,
A YEAR of recompense for the cause of Zion.
"And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth,

"The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.…

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:.

"And there will be signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven,

DS/AofD<-------1290days------->Sun/Moon

<----1260---->
<-----1290-----> 0.976744186046512
<------1335------> 0.966292134831461
<-------1372-------> 0.973032069970845

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The Company for the Reconstruction and Development of the Jewish Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem Ltd. is the only fully government-owned company in the Jewish Quarter (100% of its shares are held by Israel’s Ministry of Construction).

The Company was established in the year 1969 following the liberation of Jerusalem, and it serves as an arm of the government for executing governmental policy in the Old City of Jerusalem. The Company is the primary lessee of 133 dunams of public land inside the walls of the Old City, and of another approximately 17,500 square meters outside the walls (in the City of David).

The Company also serves as a government housing company, and in this capacity it handles real estate and asset registration, the reassignment and transfer of rights, lawsuits relating to expropriation, ownership claims, evictions and the management of land registration ledgers.

  • The Company was established in 1969 by the government of Israel.
  • The Company was established in order to rehabilitate the Jewish Quarter and develop it as a national, religious, historical and cultural site, with an emphasis on its unique character.
  • The rehabilitation of the Jewish Quarter took 16 years.
company profile - The Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem

After the Six-Day War, in April 1968 the State of Israel expropriated the Jewish Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem, an area of approximately 134 dunams including the Western Wall plaza and the buildings inside.

In July 1968, the government decided to create the Company for the Reconstruction and Development of the Jewish Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem Ltd., and in January 1969 the Company was established.

The Company was established with the purpose of developing and restoring the Jewish Quarter, which lay devastated and in ruins following the terrible damage done by the Jordanians when it fell to them in Israel’s War of Independence (1948).

areas of activity - The Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem

"From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the Ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,'

May_1969_zpsdynbetgh.jpg




signinthesky_810_500_55_s_c1_zpshxmc8xot.jpg



*Sir Isaac Newton on Daniel 9:

"The former part of the Prophecy related to the first coming of Christ, being dated to his coming as a Prophet; this being dated to his coming to be Prince or King, seems to relate to his second coming. There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming."

"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; it may perhaps come forth not from the Jews themselves, but from some other kingdom friendly to them, and precede their return from captivity, and give occasion to it."

"Thus have we in this short Prophecy, a prediction of all the main periods relating to the coming of the Messiah; the time of his birth, that of his death, that of the rejection of the Jews, the duration of the Jewish war whereby he caused the city and sanctuary to be destroyed, and the time of his second coming: and so the interpretation here given is more full and complete and adequate to the design, than if we should restrain it to his first coming only, as Interpreters usually do. We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel's meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks."

"Thus have we in this short Prophecy, a prediction of all the main periods relating to the coming of the Messiah;
  • the time of his birth,
  • that of his death,
  • that of the rejection of the Jews,
  • the duration of the Jewish war whereby he caused the city and sanctuary to be destroyed,
  • and the time of his second coming:
and so the interpretation here given is more full and complete and adequate to the design, than if we should restrain it to his first coming only, as Interpreters usually do".


.
 
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