Why do Christians hate Wicca(Witchcraft)?

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Rae

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The principles may not...most religious principles tend to run along similar lines, I have found in my studies of religions. The practices and specific beliefs often do. Most Christians are not comfortable with the polytheism of Wicca and other Pagan religions; most aren't comfortable with calling a deity Goddess; and most would find the magical practices many Wiccans and Pagans engage in contrary to their own spiritual works.

But other than that, we're exactly the same. ;)
 
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Evening Mist

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Rae -- I guess just from reading Blondie's post I don't see the polytheism as essential. I have no problem with "'goddess" as I see that as one in the same with "god." But along with the polytheism I can see a strong emphasis on "oneness" in what she posted, that seems to tie the multiple deities together into one.

And indeed, there is that same theme in Christianity with the emphasis on the great mystery of the trinity, and echoed in the one body of Christ, and the one body in marriage.

What I don't see in what she posted is any method for "redemption," which is probably the single most alluring aspect of Christianity IMO. It seems to me that however noble, those principles cannot be perfectly met. For insance, Principle #2 beautiful states the fashion in which I would like to mother my children -- in harmony with nature and my evolutionary predispositions. But everything in my culture has departed from those natural inclinations and predispositions, to the point that many days I don't even know how to be the person I should be. Or worse, I do know what I should be, and my life prevents me from being that. This is my own idea of what "sin" is and how infects our lives.

What Christianity offers is the hope and assurance that God has redeemed us and WILL make everything right. So that muddling along and doing our best IS enough, thanks to God's greater power.

Have I made any sense? Is there some provision for redemption in Wicca that I am just not informed about? What is the source for hope?
 
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ACougar

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6th March 2003 at 09:11 AM bluesonata said this in Post #42

May I ask you a question?  You say that you are a Christian.  Do you believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God?  The Word of God (or the Bible) is what I base my belief and my convictions on.



Just reading this and I had a thought perhaps people who try to live as Christ did should be called Christians and those who accept everything the Bible says as the absolute literal truth should be called Biblicans.  Perhaps you could then agree that both of you are Christaians however only one of you is a Biblican.  Just an off the wall thought.
 
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ACougar

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Today at 09:31 AM Evening Mist said this in Post #63

Rae -- I guess just from reading Blondie's post I don't see the polytheism as essential. I have no problem with "'goddess" as I see that as one in the same with "god." But along with the polytheism I can see a strong emphasis on "oneness" in what she posted, that seems to tie the multiple deities together into one.



That oneness extends into all things also you, me even the birds, trees and rocks.  The differance exists only in awareness of that Divine oneness.

And indeed, there is that same theme in Christianity with the emphasis on the great mystery of the trinity, and echoed in the one body of Christ, and the one body in marriage.

What I don't see in what she posted is any method for "redemption," which is probably the single most alluring aspect of Christianity IMO. It seems to me that however noble, those principles cannot be perfectly met. For insance, Principle #2 beautiful states the fashion in which I would like to mother my children -- in harmony with nature and my evolutionary predispositions. But everything in my culture has departed from those natural inclinations and predispositions, to the point that many days I don't even know how to be the person I should be. Or worse, I do know what I should be, and my life prevents me from being that. This is my own idea of what "sin" is and how infects our lives.





Most Pagans do not accept the concept of sin.  There are actions that are positive and there are actions which are negative and we will indeed reap what we sow.  On a spiritual level I believe intent is everything, and so long as we are struggling for improvement.  Working to live in harmony with our Divine nature and nature around us we are on the correct path.   

 
What Christianity offers is the hope and assurance that God has redeemed us and WILL make everything right. So that muddling along and doing our best IS enough, thanks to God's greater power.

Have I made any sense? Is there some provision for redemption in Wicca that I am just not informed about? What is the source for hope?





Yes, you've made perfect sense and while the questions were not origionally addressed to me I hope I've helped you understand (I'm being a little presumptuous, however I doubt Blondie's perspective is very differant from my own) our perspective.  There is really no need for redemption, simply the struggle to live in harmony and awareness of our Divine Nature both within and without. 
 
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ACougar

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Today at 11:09 AM Evening Mist said this in Post #66

Thank you ACougar. What about hope? Is there a hope of eliminating the negative?


The negative is apart of the whole, transend the negative.  Move beyond it, shed light on it and use it to grow just like a seed.
 
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Rae

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Some people argue for reincarnation as a way of eliminating our personal negatives through rebirth and education through many lives. It makes some sense to me, though not all Pagans or Wiccans believe in reincarnation.

Personally, I don't see any need for redemption for the things orthodox Christianity preaches...I see our flaws and imperfections as part of being human, not anything which needs deep guilt and forgiveness for. But then again, maybe that's why I'm a Pagan and not a Christian. :)
 
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feral

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very interesting thread...!

i happen to believe that a lot of the fear christians and others might have regarding wicca is due to misunderstanding and/or lack thereof. like rae pointed out...if you get your information from a chick tract you're missing out. if people understood the basic ideas of wicca they would have to change from seeing it as vile or satanic to purely nature-based and quite enjoyable, actually. it's the tangled, confusing information and legends that label wiccans as sacrificers of people and heartless heathens, not the facts. if you hate wicca, make sure you understand it. read a real book about it or chat with real wiccans and find out what it is all about.
i have also heard that anti-wicca stems from msigynist (anti-women) conceptions...as almost all those burned and hunted as witches (like in salem) were female.
i think ignorance is a real liability in all cases. it can only hurt.
 
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LanceA

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Read the book mentioned below. I use to be caught up in the Pagan/Druid faith and can tell you it isn't all the nature/love that pagans keep on preaching about. Granted there are some good people out there who are pagans/wiccans/witches/druids/shamans....etc. I'm talking from a christian view and can tell you pagans that you are living blind to the lies Satan is telling you. I use to say there is no Satan, christians are hypocrates, the bible is nothing but stories made to turn people against all other religions. I could go on and on of how I felt about the Bible and the Christian God. Just remember this, you don't have any power. The power you think you have when casting your circles and doing spell work is from satan and his demons, and that is only temporary. But you will have to find this out for yourself as I did. Just remember there are strangers out there who are praying for you and who care about you. Sorry for this response but I felt it needed to be said. And pick up this book below. I read it after I became a christian and I felt it was talking about my life.

Wicca Satans little white lie.

God Bless
 
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Arikay

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Yep, nothing like a bit of prejudice, hatred and condemnation to make everyone realize what a loving god is. :) :D

LOL



Today at 04:18 PM LanceA said this in Post #70 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=706599#post706599)

Read the book mentioned below. I use to be caught up in the Pagan/Druid faith and can tell you it isn't all the nature/love that pagans keep on preaching about. Granted there are some good people out there who are pagans/wiccans/witches/druids/shamans....etc. I'm talking from a christian view and can tell you pagans that you are living blind to the lies Satan is telling you. I use to say there is no Satan, christians are hypocrates, the bible is nothing but stories made to turn people against all other religions. I could go on and on of how I felt about the Bible and the Christian God. Just remember this, you don't have any power. The power you think you have when casting your circles and doing spell work is from satan and his demons, and that is only temporary. But you will have to find this out for yourself as I did. Just remember there are strangers out there who are praying for you and who care about you. Sorry for this response but I felt it needed to be said. And pick up this book below. I read it after I became a christian and I felt it was talking about my life.

Wicca Satans little white lie.

God Bless
 
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feral

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actually, i can judge this one without the aid of that book. i have read on the subject of wicca quite a bit. other then that, i have attended different events and celebrations with wiccans, and many of my friends practice wicca. while i tend my religious beliefs (what little there be) on ceremonial egyptian pagan traditions, i don't see wicca as anything contrary to christianity. devil worship is not a part of it.

you might wish to consider where you're getting your information from. is it direct from experience with real, practicing members of the faith you oppose? or does it come from non-wiccans trying to cast wicca in a negative light? when you want to study christianity you read christian texts and speak with christian leaders. when you want to understand wicca, turn to the wiccans. rae is on this forum, as well as some other wiccans and pagans. ask them about what they really believe. if they say no devil worship, then quit accusing them of devil worship.

all religions can be misinterpreted. i know people who abhor christianity because christians are a bloodythirsty lot who killed their own gods, and are bent on bathing in blood to preserve their lives forever. this is a misunderstanding of the concept of jesus on the cross and the idea of the blood of jesus paying for sins. don't let ignorance determine your stance.

 
 
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Rae

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Sorry, Lance, but William Schnoebelen has long been known to be lying about Wicca. For information about the "credibility" of this man, try looking at http://www.witchvox.com/protection/kerr_schnoebelen1.html

A sample:
"Bill Schnoebelen, author of Wicca: Satan's Little White Lie, can be very persuasive, even though he is not a very good speaker. What makes Schnoebelen's stories seem more credible to his audiences is the fact that he dabbled in Wicca in the past, making it possible for him to add little bits of the truth in with the falsehoods that he preaches. Over the years he and his wife Alexandria have tried many different spiritual paths, seeking one which would satisfy his obviously intense desire to have power over others. It is hardly surprising then to learn that he has finally become a fundamentalist Christian who lectures against anything other than fundamentalist Christianity.

"Schnoebelen initially claimed that in 1968 he was initiated into the Alexandrian tradition of Wicca by a woman in Boston who was herself initiated by Alex Sanders, the founder of this tradition. Schnoebelen claimed that he made it to the 2nd degree and possibly to the 3rd around 1973. In his book Wicca, Satan's Little White Lie, Schnoebelen claims that he was "initiated into the Alexandrian Wicca on Imbolc, February 2, 1973 and made a High Priest and Magus in September of the same year... and studied under Gavin and Yvonne Frost and their Church and School of Wicca." My research has revealed that the only claim here that is true is that Schnoebelen studied Wicca through correspondence courses from Gavin and Yvonne Frost's Church and School of Wicca. Schnoebelen also obtained credentials from the California based Egyptian group the Church of the Eternal Source, also through correspondence courses."
 
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LanceA

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Yesterday at 03:16 PM feral said this in Post #72 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=706716#post706716)


you might wish to consider where you're getting your information from. is it direct from experience with real, practicing members of the faith you oppose? or does it come from non-wiccans trying to cast wicca in a negative light? when you want to study christianity you read christian texts and speak with christian leaders. when you want to understand wicca, turn to the wiccans. rae is on this forum, as well as some other wiccans and pagans. ask them about what they really believe. if they say no devil worship, then quit accusing them of devil worship.


 


Feral,
I am basing all of what I know about Wicca off of self experience and from members of the Wiccan Community. The Book by Schnoebelen was just something I read after I became a Christian and thought it was interesting. And I agree with you that someone should explore all sides to a discussion. I've learned from Wiccan authors and continue to read from Wiccan authors. I understand a lot of people will take a one sided view to a debate and not search other avenues. Looking at it from a Christian view I would have to say what I was doing as a Pagan/Druid was evil and I truly believe satan is behind what I practised and what Wiccans practice, even though Wiccans believe it has nothing to do with the Christian concept of Satan. I know when I was a Pagan I said the same thing. I understand your view on this and any Wiccans view to what I have to say. I'm not here to judge just to discuss what I hold to be true.

Rae,

Of course Witchvox and other Wiccans would say this book is full of lies. I even argued that Gavin Frost was a fake. There are people out there who claim to be Wiccan/Witch and do things that the main stream Wiccans/Witches wouldn't practice. It is like that with any religion. Do I believe all Wiccans practice the Great Right just like Gavin Frost does, or states in one of his books called "The Witches Bible", or now "Good Witches Bible"? I don't think so. I know a number of my Wiccan friends don't practice there religion this way. There are some out there who will take their religion to extremes. And like I said to Feral I am looking from a Christian point of view and from that view what Wiccans practice, and when I say Wiccan I mean Witchcraft, Druidry, Shamanism..etc, is evil and the God I worship tells me that it is wrong. I'm sure Schnoebelen isn't mainstream Wicca. Some of the things I read about in his book wasn't familiar to me but that doesn't mean it isn't true or it doesn't happen. It was an interesting read for me and felt someone would like to read it and that it can be found in a Christian book store. And far as correspondence courses are concerned. You know as well as I do that the majority of Wiccans are eclectic and find out about certain traditions through books and online correspondence. Participating in a Coven or even a group doesn't happen usually until later on in their lives. Most don't even know there is a Coven in their towns.

Arikay,

I said nothing about hating you or anyone else. Not sure where you picked that up from my post. And it has nothing to do with being prejudice. Please explain where you got this from?

And all of you please feel free to PM me anytime about this.

Lance
 
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Arikay

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Probably missconceptions by people who hear wicca being described as "witchcraft"

Also, the pentacle being called a devil symbol doesnt help much.
The irony that the pentacle is also a symbol for the 5 wounds of christ is general lost on many wicca hating christians. :) :D

Today at 02:04 PM feral said this in Post #75 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=708922#post708922)

lance - in case i missed it...what about wicca are you against? the bible references i see on the subject only seem to be about divination, not something all wiccans do.

any clues why wicca gets associated with satanism so frequently?
 
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Rae

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Lance,

It is full of lies. If you'd bothered to read the article, you would have discovered that Schnoebelen is about as reliable on Wicca as Jack Chick is on Catholicism...in fact, he's often cited approvingly by Chick. But then, I'm sure with your vast knowledge of Wicca you already knew that, and knew how unreliable he and Chick are...right? :(

There is no reason to post such obviously untrue rot about my religion unless it's to insult and degrade those who practice it. If you want to argue by "well, maybe someone out there did what Schnoebelen claims" then I can argue that the ancient Pagan characterization of Christians as baby eaters must have been true of some Christians. Please. You should know better if you ever really were a Pagan and stop the hate propaganda against our religion, even if you've convinced yourself that the religion is "evil" in and of itself WITHOUT the lies by Chick and Schnoebelen about it.

You've only proven to me that you're interested in spreading more lies about my faith...thus, your credibility is about at the level of those hatemongers right now. Care to go for two and recommend some of the anti-Catholic writings of Chick?
 
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LanceA

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Rae,

Ok lets get off the book with Schnoebelen. We both have different views on that book and it seems it is getting you angry. I'm sorry if my views on Wicca are upsetting you but seeing that this is a discussion board I feel both of our views on your religion are open for debate without getting angry with each other. And If you would like I will recommend some other books as well that are written by Pagan authors. Hopefully this will ease your mind some and keep the peace between us. I will also be posting some scripture for Feral as to why I believe the way I do about Wicca. Again sorry if my views got you upset at all, just expression my opinion and not trying to have a demonstration against Wiccans. I discuss this with all my Wiccan friends and they do the same about Christianity with me.

God Bless

Lance
 
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Before I start posting some scriptures that talk about worshipping other Gods/Goddesses just remember I am a Christian and believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. All the verses come from the NASB.

In modern Wicca there are many practices that are very similar to the practices of the ancient Canaanite practices. The Canaanites worshipped a male god (Baal or Tammuz) and a female goddess (Astarte or even Ashtoeth) Queen of Heaven. In 1 Kings 11 God had warned Solomon to not take up with foreign women. Solomon began to worship Ashtoreth (goddess of the Sidonians) and Milcom (an idol of the Ammonites).

1 Kings 11:8 “Thus also he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.” What Solomon did here was build idols for his wives Gods.

Exodus 20:3 God tells Moses that Gods people are not to have any other Gods but Him. Solomon broke this commandment when he worshipped his wives deities. God specifically tells us not to take up other Deities. The Wiccan religion offers many deities to worship.

Judges 2:11 “Then the sons of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord and served the Baals

Judges 2:13 “So they forsook the Lord and served Ball and the Ashtaroth”

It then goes on and states God was angry at Israel and gave them to their enemies.

Ashtaroth, (Astarte), is a fertility Goddess and is still worshipped today in some Wiccan organizations. Her name has changed some with other Wiccan deities such as:

APHRODITE
BRIGID (TRIPLE GODDESS)
ISIS (TRIPLE GODDESS)
NONA
FRIGGA
CERRIDWEN
Just to name a few.

The worship of these deities was evil before God of the Bible and still is today. The practices of Wicca are very different from ancient practices and granted Wiccans don’t perform human sacrifices as many of the ancient cultures have. This doesn’t mean Wicca isn’t evil in the eyes of the Lord. Wiccans are still performing rites to deities that God has specifically said not to worship. Could God be warning us that if we do follow these practices we are actually worshipping demons or evil spirits? I believe so. Most look at it as if God is just so jealous of other Gods/Goddesses that he will come up with anything to keep us for himself. It does say God is a jealous God, but also God is a loving God. He is protecting us from harm of what we can’t see and what we don’t know.

An example is calling in the Watch Towers, Watcher, and Quarters in a Wiccan ritual. When Wiccans perform a ritual (ceremony) one of the steps is calling in the quarters. Each direction is honored and asked to watch over the circle. Basically it is welcoming spirits to join them but not participate in the circle. The God and the Goddess are also invoked during the ritual. During the ritual spells, divination, and energy manipulation is done.

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 “There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through the fire (a practice of burning their sons and daughters in fire), one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord.”

Here god specifically states again that these acts are against His will. Wicca uses divination, interprets omens, and they cast spells in ritual. Wiccans also call upon the dead (ancestors) mostly during samhain, to help them work their magic.

Acts 16:16 talks about a slave girl who had the power of divination and was making her masters rich. She followed after Paul and some others and kept saying “These men are bond servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation. Paul eventually got annoyed with her following them and said to the spirit in her, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. The spirit came out of her and she lost her ability of divination. If the spirit in this girl was for good why would Paul drive it out of her in the name of Jesus, and why would the spirit know that Paul and his companions were servants of the true God? The Bible says Satan and demons know who Jesus is and that they have no power over Jesus and his followers. The spirit in the slave girl was a demon. The demons that allowed that girl to have divination are the same demons that allow Wiccans to use divination and other spellcraft. The Watchers or spirits you invoke at each quarter are also demons that are trying to manipulate you and blind you to the truth of what you are doing. You might say it is ok to practice Wicca because you don’t do the same things the ancient religion use to do. The truth is you still worship the same Gods they did.

This has gotten quite lengthy and I’m sure a few of you are going to get upset with what I wrote here. After being saved my eyes have finally been opened and I can see the truth to what I was doing.

Here are some Wiccan authors:
Witchcrafting (Phylis Currot)
Principles of Wicca (Vivianne Crowley)
Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner (Scott Cunningham)
Wiccan for Men (A.J. Drew)
 
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