Prophetic promises to Israel

jerry kelso said:

For a Jew in the tribulation the law will be written in their hearts.

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Which law?


Joh 15:10　 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

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BABerean2 said:

Which law?


Joh 15:10　 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

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baberean2,

The law written on their hearts of the NC.
In the KoH there will be civil laws out of the Law of Moses as well as the NC. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

In the KoH there will be civil laws out of the Law of Moses as well as the NC.

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Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—　

Gal 4:25　 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—　

Gal 4:26　 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.　
(Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.)



Gal 4:27　 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
　
Gal 4:28　 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.　

Gal 4:29　 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
　
Gal 4:30　 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."　

Gal 4:31　 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.　

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BABerean2 said:

Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—　

Gal 4:25　 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—　

Gal 4:26　 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.　
(Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.)



Gal 4:27　 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
　
Gal 4:28　 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.　

Gal 4:29　 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
　
Gal 4:30　 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."　

Gal 4:31　 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.　

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baberean2,

1. Hagar stood for the law of Moses Galatians 4:24.

2. Hagar stood for bondage that the nation of Israel in Paul's day was under as a physical nation not your spiritual Jew theory Galatians 4:25.

3. The Heavenly Jerusalem is the spiritual aspect of salvation that saves both Jew and Gentile and puts them into the body of Christ where there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female, bond man or freeman etc. Galatians 4:26.
These are classes of people that are on the same level spiritually because both have the same covenant.
Gentiles had no covenant at all before as such and versus the nation of Israel Ephesians 2:11-16; 3:3-6.
Under the Old Covenant the Jews were the propagators of the gospel to the Gentile world and this is why Jesus said to the Jewish nation under the the law of Moses "You are the light of the world and salt of the earth" even though they failed at that and rejected Christ and his salvation and couldn't receive the physical KoH reign Matthew 23:37-39.

4. The apostles knew that Gentiles were to be saved from the propagation of the gospel of the NC.
They didn't understand the body of Christ which was the Jews and Gentiles both on the same level and both propagate the gospel until Peter got the vision of the clean and unclean Acts 10 and Paul clearer picture in Ephesians 2:11-16 and 3:3-6.

5. None of this has anything to do with preventing the Nation of Israel's gifts and calling concerning inheriting the land of Israel which will be enlarged in the KoH reign Genesis 12-15.
The spiritual KoG of repentance will be the only way they can receive the physical KoH so Judah and Israel will no longer be two sticks divided but united as one stick Ezekiel 37:22-23; 24-28.

6. All Old Testament saints that have died and are in Heaven from Adam to the tribulation saints who don't take the mark of the beast will be a heavenly people and come out Heaven with Christ to do war at Armageddon Revelation 19:11-15; Zechariah 14:1-5 to save the nation of Israel so they can be a nation born in one day Isaiah 66:7-9.

7. The Apostles will rule over the tribes of Israel Matthew 19:28 and David will be King over Israel Ezekiel 37:24.
Israel will walk in God's statutes and shall inherit the land promised to Jacob, his children and their children's children which started with Abraham and it will be forever and David will be their prince forever Ezekiel 37:25.
Verse 26; Moreover I will make a covenant (New Covenant) of peace with them; it shall be an EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH THEM: AND I WILL PLACE THEM AND MULTIPLY THEM AND WILL SET MY SANCTUARY IN THE MIDST OF THEM FOREVER.
Verse 27; MY TABERNACLE ALSO SHALL BE WITH THEM: YEA, I WILL BE THEIR GOD AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Verse 28; AND THE HEATHEN SHALL KNOW THAT I THE LORD DO SANCTIFY ISRAEL, WHEN MY SANCTUARY SHALL BE IN THE MIDST OF THEM FOREVERMORE.
This destroys your false and extreme spiritual Jew theory which replaces the physical Nation of Israel's gifts and calling with the Church.

8. All saints will be under the New Covenant in the KoH reign and Israel will be at the head of the nations where Zion the earthly Jerusalem will be the capital of the earth. Jerusalem is in the physical nation of Israel.
The church will also rule with a rod of Iron in the KoH reign Revelation 2:26-27 because of Christ who will rule with a rod of iron Psalm 2:9. The church will not be at the head of the nations but Israel will be Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7.
Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 13 shows that the time of Jacob's trouble is about the physical nation of Israel's spiritual salvation by repentance and coming through the fire.
Zechariah 14 shows the Day of the Lord is about the Deliverance of the physical nation of Israel and fulfillment of their covenants and a nation born in one day in agreement with Isaiah 66:7-9 and the Lord becoming the King over the whole earth v.9.
A footnote about the rapture of the church being at the Day of the Lord in which you use Matthew 24:31 of the elect gathered together from the four corners of one end of Heaven to another is understood and translated as being the church and is proven wrong in Isaiah 12:12 which is the correct rendering: And he shall set up an ensign for the nations and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
The outcasts in Revelation 12 is the Sunclothed woman preserved in the wilderness Revelation 12:14 and the remnant of her seed dispersed is Judah Revelation 12:17. This proves that the other part of the seed raptured in the tribulation is the 144,000Jews Revelation 7:4-8; 14:1-5 not Christ.

9. The point of the civil law from Moses is in perfect harmony with ruling with a rod of iron Psalm 2:9; Revelation 2:26-27.
Even today a Christian can eat koshered things which was under the law because it is smart and healthy and not be sinning or under the spirit of the law of Moses.
At the same time we could not sacrifice the blood of bulls and goats to be saved today or in the KoH reign whether the church age saints or the earthly nation of Israel who is restored by God to enter the KoH reign.

10. Accept the scriptures that the time of Jacob's trouble of the last half of the tribulation is about the restoration of the spiritual and physical nation of Israel and their gifts and calling according to the specific parts of the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants which are eternal for them and not the church age saints.
Accept the scriptures that show all saints will rule and reign in the KoH but only Israel will be at the head of the nations in their land and where the capital of the earth will be, the earthly Jerusalem.
Once again the point is that the physical nation of Israel has an earthly calling which is not prevented by all the Old and New and Tribulation saints who come back with Christ to save Israel from extinction and that the body of Christ of the church of Jew and Gentile alike does not prevent the physical Israel becoming a complete believing nation at the head of the nations of the earth under the New Covenant.
Since the Cross there has only been one covenant for salvation of the soul. It was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Ezekiel 37:15-28 shows that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13 was not made with the physical nation of Israel at the Cross and will not be until the end of the tribulation so they can receive the KoH.
If you don't believe this you don't believe the correct reconciliation of the contexts of the scriptures, plain and simple. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

Ezekiel 37:15-28 shows that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13 was not made with the physical nation of Israel at the Cross

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Act 2:14　 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.　

Act 2:22　 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—　

Act 2:36　 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."　

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BABerean2 said:

Act 2:14　 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.　

Act 2:22　 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—　

Act 2:36　 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."　

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baberean2,

1. Why do you keep ignoring the truth of gradual revelation?

2. The mystery of Christ was not known at the beginning on the Day of Pentecost.
Their understanding of Gentiles being saved was by proselytizing through the Jewish nation under the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant.
This didn't change until 7-10 years later at Peter's vision of the clean and unclean Acts 10.
At the end of the book of Acts Paul left his ministry to the Jews and went to the Gentiles.
Jesus already had prophesied the Jewish destruction in Matthew 24 which happened in 70 A.D.
This prophecy and Jesus telling the apostles it was not for them to know the times and seasons when the KoH reign would be proved they would never accept Christ as a nation during the early church just like there is no verse that ever said Israel would accept Christ.
There are plenty of scriptures that says there will be a generation that the whole physical nation will come to Christ and fulfill their gifts and calling at the head of the nations forever on earth.
I have already given these scriptures a hundred times both from the Old and New Testament and you know it. They will be at the head of the nations under the New Covenant etc.

3. Once again your false logic is because of your refusal of believing the whole context.
You keep refusing to believe that the whole physical nation will be saved.
If that don't work you try to use the false extreme spiritual theory to rob Israel of its gifts and calling through its eternal covenants of Abraham and David.
You have made a big deal of Israel being at the head of the nations and Christ will be the only ruler in the KoH though the scriptures say plainly that all saints will rule with a rod of Iron Revelation 2:26-27; Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

You keep refusing to believe that the whole physical nation will be saved.

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Rom 9:27　 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.　

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BABerean2 said:

Rom 9:27　 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.　

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baberean2,

1. Take your blinders off so you can see the real truth.

2. The context is about the nation of Israel's blindness because of pride, stuck in the Old Covenant way of life and not believing in Christ for salvation.
Paul is concerned because they are his fellow blood brethren and he understood their gifts and calling in the KoH reign was conditioned by obedience and eternal.

3. Historically, Romans 9:1-23 is about the nation of Israel not the body of Christ.
Romans 9:1-13 is historically of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the Jewish nation not the Church.
Romans 9:14-23 is what Moses the lawgiver said in conjunction with God's right to punish unbelievers in his day were the Jews and save the believers.
This is the historical context.

4. Verse 24-26 is about the Gentiles being able to be saved because of salvation by grace and not works because of Abraham Roman's 4:1-5 and Isaac Romans 9:7-8.
Romans 9:27-29 is talking about the the physical nation of Israel (Isaiah 10:22-23) not the Church.
Isaiah's context is prophetical to the time of Jacob's trouble. The Church will be in Heaven Revelation 5:9-10; 11:18; 19:7-10 while the nation of Israel will be on earth Revelation 1:7; Revelation 12:14 and the Jewish remnant verse 17.

5. Israel as the sand of the sea will most likely be the 2/3 of Israel's rebels have to be cut off Zechariah 13:8-9 and 1/3 will come through the fire which will be the remnant of Israel.
The Church is never referenced as the remnant.

6. Verse 28 the Lord will finish the work because of the nations gathering at Armageddon to kill off Israel completely and he will destroy them with the brightness of his coming 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

7. Romans 9:29 is from Isaiah about the physical remnant of Israel Isaiah 1:9 not the Church.

8. Verse 30 shows the Gentiles accepted righteousness by faith and the physical nation of Israel which was under the law of righteousness didn't attain to it because they didn't seek it by faith verse 31-32.
Verse 33 is about the stumblingstone of Sion and rock of offense for the unbelievers but the believers will not be ashamed.

9. Romans 10 shows Israel's that they might be saved, verse 1.
Paul had already left Israel and was still concerned about the nation as a whole not the individual unsaved Jew in the context of your false spiritual Jew theory to replace them by the Church.
Paul shows the difference between the righteousness of the law and the righteousness by faith verses 2-10;11-18.
Verses 19-21 shows that Israel must be provoked to jealousy by the Church of believing Jews and Gentiles.

10. Romans 11, Paul goes on to emphasize his concern for the nation of Israel and says plainly God has not cast them off his people whom he foreknew verse 2.
Israel has to have a remnant of believing Jews under the New Covenant to keep the nation's gifts and calling alive.
Verse 25-29 is about the physical nation of Israel for the Church will not be in the time of Jacob's trouble and do not have to be purified. This is what the term turning away ungodliness from Jacob that will happen at the Second Coming when the Deliverer will come out of Sion ( Heaven) verse 26.
Christ is the deliverer and the church will come out of Heaven with him Revelation 19:11-15.

11. Verse 27; For this is my Covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins.
Christ Covenant is the NC for all Israel not the Church who is coming out of Heaven with Christ to save Israel on earth.
This disproves your false interpretation of Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8 of the Jewish nation accepting the New Covenant. All of physical Israel have to be saved verses 25-27.
The obedience of the whole nation will be the way they receive the gifts and calling of their specific position in the KoH reign not the Church's position in the KoH.

12. The nation of Israel are enemies for our sakes for they are still blind and we are to provoke them to jealousy and we are the propagators of the gospel right now.
They are beloved for the Lord's sake concerning the election of the Jewish nation verse 28, to fulfill their gifts and calling at the head of the nations in the KoH. Isaiah 2:2-4; Romans 9:29.
Learn how to properly understand and interpret context and how to reconcile scriptures properly together in harmony. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

All of physical Israel have to be saved verses 25-27.

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Rom 9:27　 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.　
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BABerean2 said:

Rom 9:27　 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.　
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baberean2,

1. Isaiah 10:20; And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smite them: but shall stay upon the Holy one one of Israel in truth.
Verse 21; The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob unto the Mighty God.
For though thy people be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
Verse 23; For the Lord God of Hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.
Verse 24; Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Hosts, O my people that dwellers in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
Verse 25; For yet a little while and the indignation shall cease and mine angering their destruction.
Verse 26; And the Lord of Hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Horne: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt.
Verse 27; And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken off his shoulder and his yoke from off thy neck and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.
This is a prophecy of the end times with the Antichrist as the Assyrian shall be destroyed and chapter 11 is about the rod out of the stem of Jesse and a branch shall grow out of his roots. It goes on to explain the Day of the Lord and the KoH kingdom of peace where the Lion will lay down with the lamb etc.
This was supposed to happen in Christ earthly ministry Isaiah 11:3-9 which is the big picture which harmonizes with Isaiah 9:6.
Why? Verse 3; And shall make of him a quick understanding in the fear of the Lord.
Isaiah 9:6; For unto us a child is born, unto us a sin is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulders etc. and verse 7 talks about the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end upon the the throne of David and upon his kingdom to order it and to establish it with judgement and with Justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Lord will perform this.
Their is no throne of David physically on earth.

2. The land covenant was made specifically with Israel, which God would make a great nation and in them would all mankind he families of the earth be blessed Genesis 12:1-4. The land covenant was again reintirated in Genesis 17:7-14.
The other part of the promise concerns Abraham becoming a father of many nations Genesis 17:4-6 and because of God making him a great nation where the families of the earth will be blessed Genesis 12:1-4.
Christians are sons of Abraham because of the New Covenant saved by grace through faith and not of works.
This has nothing to do with Christians inheriting the land of Israel, ever.
You seem to think because we are Abraham's sons and daughters we inherit every jot and tittle of Israel's promises of their gifts and calling. You are sadly mistaken so believe the truth of the word.

3. Israel being as the sand of the sea in Isaiah about the last day is talking about Israel and Zechariah shows where 2/3 will be cut off and 1/3 goes through the fire.

4. Romans 9:27 Israel will be as the sand of the sea but a remnant shall be saved. This is talking about Israel and not the Church. Verses 30-32 are mentioned because the Jews have to be saved under the NC so they will cease to stumble at the rock of offense who is Christ not because of your extreme spiritual Jew theory.
And the sand of the sea being the families of the earth being blessed wouldn't be blessed with just a remnant of Israel. Why?
Because all Israel must be saved Romans 11:25 not just the remnant. Isaiah and Paul agree on this.
John shows the remnant who do the commandments in Revelation 12:17 but the woman is left in the wilderness and they are of the house of Jacob who will repent for they will look upon him whom they pierced Revelation 1:7.
Israel and the remnant of Judah who come through the fire will be united as one stick and not two sticks anymore Ezekiel 37:15-28. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

This was supposed to happen in Christ earthly ministry Isaiah 11:3-9 which is the big picture which harmonizes with Isaiah 9:6.

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Mat 16:21　 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.　
Mat 16:22　 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"　
Mat 16:23　 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."　


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BABerean2 said:

Mat 16:21　 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.　
Mat 16:22　 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"　
Mat 16:23　 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."　


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baberean2,

1. What you post is a little bit like a liberal; "Dancing in the Dark"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. Why do you continue to ignore the other side of the coin?
One, that statement was after the Jewish nation rejected the physical KoH reign because they rejected the spiritual aspect of the KoG. This was under the law of Moses.

3. The physical KoH offer was valid despite the fact that it was never prophesied that Israel would accept it.
The spiritual aspect of the KoG offer of salvation was valid despite the nation as a whole didn't accept it and despite it was not the New Covenant.
I've told you that Jesus didn't teach the NC in his earthly ministry and Matthew 16:21-23 proves this.

4. Those that were saved in Jesus day were not saved to the uttermost and would not have been saved if Jesus had not died. This is why the Old and New Testament saints would be perfected together Hebrews 11:40.

5. So once again you are leaving out the total context and thus, being one-sided and slanting scripture to a perception that it is the only answer. This is nothing short of shameless spinning. Quit "Dancing in the Dark"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

I've told you that Jesus didn't teach the NC in his earthly ministry and Matthew 16:21-23 proves this.

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Mat_26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24　 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20　 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

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BABerean2 said:

Mat_26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24　 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20　 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

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baberean2,

1. Quit being ridiculous and deceptive.
Those scriptures were not a part of the earthly ministry of the KoH and KoG by Jesus.

2. The disciples didn't understand the NC during Jesus ministry or after the Jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.
John 6 the disciples didn't understand about eating Christ flesh and drinking his blood.
Peter didn't understand the NC in Matthew 16:21-23. That is why Jesus said, get behind me Satan for you don't savor the things of God when he said he wouldn't let anybody kill Jesus.
Even when he appeared to him after the resurrection and in Luke when he had to expound the truth of his death, burial, and resurrection.

3. Once again you don't understand context and you ignore the time factor.

4. The Jews rejected the KoH and KoG message which was not the New Covenant for they were under the law of Moses, the Old Covenant.

5. All past ages pointed to the NC but was in types and shadows in the Old Covenant.
The blood of bulls and goats were temporarily and they still did this in Jesus day but the difference was that Jesus could forgive sins.
However, they were to believe in Jesus to save them from their sins but not about believing in Jesus death, burial, and resurrection.
Even though Jesus forgiving sins was valid and authentic it was not salvation to the uttermost until the Cross. It was then that salvation was perfected Hebrews 11:40.
Once again you are wrong so quit Dancing in the Dark". Jerry kelso

Biblewriter said:

You continue to post scriptures that you imagine nullify and set aside the explicitly stated promises that God made to the ancient nation of Israel, and two the two divisions of that ancient nation, the ancient sub-nations of Judah and Ephraim, as well as to the physical plot of ground which those ancient nations occupied.

I have quoted many of these explicitly stated promises, and you have simply ignored them.

If these many explicitly stated promises will not actually be kept, exactly as they were stated, then the promises of God are not reliable.

Thus, your doctrine nullifies and destroys the reliability of the promises of God, and as such, destroys the very foundation of the Christian faith. This doctrine does not come from God, but from our enemy.

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Mat 21:37　 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.　
Mat 21:38　 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
　(Who is the "heir" to the land?)

Mat 21:39　 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.　
Mat 21:40　 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?　
Mat 21:41　 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.　
Mat 21:42　 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?　
Mat 21:43　 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.　 (Read 1 Peter 2:4-10 to see the "holy nation" who accepted the "chief cornerstone".)


Heb 8:6　 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.　
Heb 8:8　 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:　(Text from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:9　 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.　
Heb 8:10　 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:　
Heb 8:11　 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.　
Heb 8:12　 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.　
Heb 8:13　 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.　



Heb 11:16　 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.　



Luk 24:25　 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:　
Luk 24:26　 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?　
Luk 24:27　 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.　

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Biblewriter said:

You continue to post scriptures that you imagine nullify and set aside the explicitly stated promises that God made to the ancient nation of Israel, and two the two divisions of that ancient nation, the ancient sub-nations of Judah and Ephraim, as well as to the physical plot of ground which those ancient nations occupied.

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The Holy Scriptures comprise an Old Will and Testament, and a New Will and Testament.

Wills and testaments are of course used in the temporal affairs of humankind.

Assume, hypothetically, that the Scriptures' Old Will and Testament was temporal; and that a New Will and Testament, also temporal, was subsequently created.

Would all the promises, i.e. bequests, in the temporal New Will and Testament, completely annul and void all the promises, i.e. bequests, in the temporal Old Will and Testament?

Biblewriter said:

And not even one of these scriptures even hints at an idea that the ancient promises made to Israel, to Judah, to Ephraim, and to the plot of real estate on which they lived, will not be kept.

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Mat 1:1　 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.　


Mat 3:9　 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.　



Joh 8:39　 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.　


Joh 8:44　 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

　

Gal 3:16　 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.　(Here Paul reveals who is the one seed to whom the Abrahamic promises were made. He also reveals they were not made to more than one seed. Those promoting John Darby's doctrine have to ignore or attempt to explain away Paul's words in this verse.)



1Ti 1:4　 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

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BABerean2 said:

Mat 1:1　 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.　


Mat 3:9　 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.　



Joh 8:39　 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.　


Joh 8:44　 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

　

Gal 3:16　 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.　(Here Paul reveals who is the one seed to whom the Abrahamic promises were made. He also reveals they were not made to more than one seed. Those promoting John Darby's doctrine have to ignore or attempt to explain away Paul's words in this verse.)



1Ti 1:4　 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

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baberean2,

1. Matthew was stating the genealogy of Abraham because of the promise of the land to the nation of Israel.
The land will be for the nation of Israel in the KoH reign Ezekiel 37:-25 where the house of Israel will be with Zion as its capital Isaiah 2:2-4.
Both of these passages are promises only to the Jewish nation of Israel to the house of the God of Jacob.
Do you disagree with the scripture? What land are you talking about?
Jesus preaching the meek shall inherit the earth to the Jews not the church. To the Jews it meant the land and they had to mourn which means Repent to be comforted and to inherit the land and their earthly calling.

2. The Davidic line was all about the KoH reign that started in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles and will culminate in passages such as Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7.
It is an eternal covenant conditioned on obedience by the physical Jewish nation to receive their gifts and calling specific to the KoH line in David's physical Jewish lineage concerning being the head of the nations on earth and having the capital of the earth in their country and David specific over the land of Israel as their King and prince forever Ezekiel 37:24-25. Do you disagree with the scripture? What position in the KoH are you talking about?

3. Matthew 3:9; John the Baptist is saying this and he didn't know what the NC church was for the mystery of the NC church was not given till years after the Day of Pentecost.
John the Baptist was talking to the Pharisees and Sadducees who weren't saved verse 7 because he called them vipers. Get your context straight of the historical fact first.
John 8:33,39 Jesus reinterates the same thing cause they were only Abraham's seed physically but not spiritually.
Acts 13:26 and even Romans 4:1 that the real physical Jew is not a real Jew across the board unless they are saved.
The NC church is not a physical nation as was the theocracy of Israel withe specific land etc. On is not a Christian at all unless they are saved.
This doesn't do away with physical Israel's gifts and calling Roman's 11:29. It does mean they have to all be saved Jews to inherit the physical land.

4. John 8:44 was talking about unsaved Jews not believing Jews, specifically to the Pharisees who didn't believe his record was true Verse 13.

5. Galatians 3:16; was all about receiving salvation and being free from the bondage of the law spiritually verses 21-25. It wasn't talking about the specific rulership position and specific land for Israel in the KoH.
The blessings of Abraham for the Gentiles coming into the scripture deal with the spiritual aspect, verse 14; That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we (the NC Church) might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. This is talking about salvation not physical Israel's gifts and calling.

6. 1 Timothy 1:3 was Paul writing to Timothy his son in the faith while in Ephesus with him, then going into Macedonia to exhort certain others to teach no other doctrine than what?
Verse 4; Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies which minister questions rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
This verse in context concerns with the law of love in the NC context vs. the Law which some were wanting to be teachers of and in the process not understanding what they were saying or what they affirmed to be true. This law was out of the Mosaic law which happened to be the civil law. The law was good if done lawfully and it was for the disobedient etc.
This had nothing to do with Israel's gifts or calling in the KoH or even the Church's rulership positions in the Church.

7. Why do you keep inserting the church in Israel's place when you don't understand what it meant to historical Israel the physical nation.
Why do you quote scriptures to try and prove your point when it is clear you don't understand the immediate context of who is speaking and who is being spoken to and what the subject involves. This is why you have tunnel vision and cannot come to the truth and never will. Jerry kelso