Signs of the Times... what do you see?

Archivist said:

And people have been looking at signs and predicting that the end times are near for a very long time.

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The Apostle James Chief among them:

James 5:8-9
8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!

He must have believed that HE saw the signs, Because Jesus taught that He would NOT be "near and at the Doors" UNTIL those signs were seen:

Matthew 24:33
33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

parousia70 said:

and it's been 2000 years.....Was He wrong?

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Ask Him.

parousia70 said:

The Apostle James Chief among them:

James 5:8-9
8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!

He must have believed that HE saw the signs, Because Jesus taught that He would NOT be "near and at the Doors" UNTIL those signs were seen:

Matthew 24:33
33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

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And it didn't happen in his time, or his children's time, or his grandchildren's time, or his great grandchildren's time, or...

parousia70 said:

Then why do both the writer of Hebrews and The writer of Acts call them THESE last days in the context of the time of Jesus' earthly ministry? "In THESE LAST DAYS He HAS SPOKEN to us by His Son"

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Because they started then.

St Paul sure seemed to think so:
Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels.

My money is on Paul being correct.

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Long as you get the context and meaning. He wasn't suggesting we all died and went to heaven. Or that New Jerusalem that will come to earth at the end of the reign of Christ was there then. So obviously he was talking about something else more akin to 'we have come to the time we know about the New Jerusalem, and when we die, that is where we go...etc etc'

That is why the rest of the bible prevents cranks and fanatics from running wild with one verse. We all have the ability to have context. Look around, for example, and see when we actually come to New Jerusalem to live etc.

Well, Elements is used 7 times in the NT and in each of those 7, it is used to refer to the basic, rudimentary, fundamental principles of the Mosaic Law, not the periodic table as you seem to insist. Those Biblical "elements" did indeed burn with fervent heat with the Temple.

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In this instance it isn't. You thought He was talking about the tablets of stone the 10 commandments are written on? No. He clearly was talking about earth and heaven. Again, we have the rest of the bible that talks of the same event.

As for the heavens passing, they were the heavens that God created in Isaiah 51:16 when He brought the Hebrew people out of Egypt and formed them into a new nation under the Mosaic covenant:

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So Egypt now had different heavens?? Those heavens passed away in Jesus' day?! Come on now, that is a disgrace.

THIS "planting of the heavens and founding of earth" took place when He brought the hebrew people into the wilderness, gave the Law and fromed them into His covenant nation. He Planted the heavens and founded the earth, that is, Brought forth order and government.

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No. He mentioned what He'd done at that time, as He mentioned it other times.

parousia70 said:

and it's been 2000 years.....Was He wrong?

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Perspective. It takes time for the gospel to be preached to all the nations. The time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. The day of the Lord will come in due time.

CuriousWes said:

Perspective. It takes time for the gospel to be preached to all the nations. The time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. The day of the Lord will come in due time.

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Yes, it will come in due time. Which is why we shouldn't start setting dates. Jesus will return, but if even He doesn't know the day or the hour then it isn't up to us to start guessing.

I agree that we should not be handing out dates. Nobody knows the day or hour, and I feel so many today are turning people away because they are believing in false prophecy. No dates, no times. The biggest for me that I see is lawlessness and an increase in no concern for human life. And yes there is still many places that havent heard the gospel, I pray daily that it is preached and teached quickly to every ear. There are so many that would be lost if He should return today, I dont want to see that happen.

Archivist said:

Yes, it will come in due time. Which is why we shouldn't start setting dates. Jesus will return, but if even He doesn't know the day or the hour then it isn't up to us to start guessing.

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True. We can be in the "end game" long before the final event. You have to take it as a whole.

dad said:

Because they started then.

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Ok, so how were the years 1295-1360 The last days? What were those years the last days of?

Long as you get the context and meaning. He wasn't suggesting we all died and went to heaven. Or that New Jerusalem that will come to earth at the end of the reign of Christ was there then. So obviously he was talking about something else more akin to 'we have come to the time we know about the New Jerusalem, and when we die, that is where we go...etc etc'

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1) If you believe we are going to the New Heavenly Jerusalem when we die, then the GWT Judgement must be past. For NO ONE goes there before they are Judged.

2) Again:
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels.

You say no, Paul meant something other than what He said.

When faced with these two polar opposite views, yours and Paul's, Again, My money is on Paul being correct, and you being wrong.

That is why the rest of the bible prevents cranks and fanatics from running wild with one verse. We all have the ability to have context. Look around, for example, and see when we actually come to New Jerusalem to live etc.

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So you are suggesting I look to sources outside the Bible to tell me what the Bible says?

In this instance it isn't.
You thought He was talking about the tablets of stone the 10 commandments are written on? No.

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You have no scriptural justification to interpret this instance of Elements in polar opposite fashion to the others.

For your edification and that of our readers, here are the others, and no they aren't referring to stone tablets:
The Greek word for elements is stoicheia (stoy-khi'-on).

Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.

Galatians 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Colossians 2:20-22 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations; 21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using; according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

Hebrews 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

In Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the literal meaning of the word is "element, rudiment, principle." In other words, this is the elements of religious training, or the ceremonial precepts that are common to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles. Obviously, this "stoicheia" (stoy-khi'-on) is not about atoms or destruction of the universe.

He clearly was talking about earth and heaven. Again, we have the rest of the bible that talks of the same event.

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Rather, there have been MULTIPLE "day of the Lord" events in Israels History, and Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the "heavens and earth" multiple times throughout history, again proving that it can not be referring to the material Cosmos which again, God established FOREVER.

So Egypt now had different heavens?? Those heavens passed away in Jesus' day?! Come on now, that is a disgrace.

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Is it?
Which heavens were these?:
Leviticus 26:14-20 'But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments, 15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant, 16 I also will do this to you: I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 I will set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies. Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you. 18 'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19 I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.

God warns Israel that she must listen and obey Him in the commandments that He has given them. God uses various terms and expressions in describing what it will be like if they despise His statutes, but notice particularly verse 19: "and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass." Notice how the character of Israel's disposition in God's view is personalized, "YOUR heaven" and "YOUR earth." So the terms "heaven" and "earth" belong or relate to Israel, they evidently constitute a "heaven" and "earth."

Isaiah 1:1-2 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me;

Who is God speaking to here the physical creation? No, he is speaking to Israel. Again, we can see this idea clearly if we look at Isaiah 51

Isaiah 51:15-16 But I am the LORD your God, Who divided the sea whose waves roared; The LORD of hosts is His name. 16 And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, 'You are My people.'"

Again, The time of planting the heavens and laying the foundation of the earth that is referred to here, was performed by God when He divided the sea (ver. 15) and gave the law (ver. 16), and said to Zion, Thou art my people; that is, when He took the children of Israel out of Egypt, and formed them in the wilderness into a covenant nation. He planted the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth.

This is why we have the entire Bible to interpret itself. For if we didn't, than anyone could pluck a verse out and apply whatever Hollywood style apocalyptic fantasy meaning to it that their imaginations could come up with.

CuriousWes said:

Perspective. It takes time for the gospel to be preached to all the nations.

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According to Paul, that task was complete by the Mid 60's AD:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

The time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

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On that we agree.

parousia70 said:

According to Paul, that task was complete by the Mid 60's AD:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;



On that we agree.

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Do you see a distinction between the known world / nations and the global world / nations?

CuriousWes said:

Do you see a distinction between the known world / nations and the global world / nations?

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Of course.
So Did Jesus and So did the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul.

In the 30's AD, Jesus said it WOULD BE (Future Tense) preached to the Whole World/All Nations, and in the 60's AD, the Holy Spirit, through Paul, said it indeed HAD BEEN (Past Tense) preached to the Whole World/All Nations...

I suppose one Could surmise that Jesus forgot to mention that distinction to the Holy Spirit, But that seems doubtful to me..

"Every Creature Under Heaven" is pretty difficult to parse away however.

Archivist said:

And it didn't happen in his time, or his children's time, or his grandchildren's time, or his great grandchildren's time, or...

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...or it did.

PollyJetix said:

I'm not looking for debate here.
I would rather we don't debate. I don't care if you are pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.
Jesus said we ought to be watching for His coming, and He told us to watch for the signs.

What have you seen recently, that looks to you like a sign of the end?

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President Trump.

The Rise of Islamic State.

The general political shift across Europe and the other part of the worlds towards the far right.

One thing is certain, the earth at the moment is covered in Satan's evil and darkness.

parousia70 said:

"Every Creature Under Heaven" is pretty difficult to parse away however.

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I wonder who told the buffalo in North America and the penguins in Antarctica, unless of course that verse is meant to convey something else.

parousia70 said:

Ok, so how were the years 1295-1360 The last days? What were those years the last days of?

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From Jesus till now and until the very last day.

1) If you believe we are going to the New Heavenly Jerusalem when we die, then the GWT Judgement must be past. For NO ONE goes there before they are Judged.

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That depends if Jesus is there now. If He is we go to be present with Him when we die. If you think He is somewhere else, show us where!?

2) Again:
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels.

You say no, Paul meant something other than what He said.

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No we have not come to New Jerusalem and that was not meant. Flesh and blood cannot go there now.
We KNOW when it comes to earth. That was not thousands of years ago obviously. You see an eternal gold city 1500 miles tall long and wide anywhere??

You have no scriptural justification to interpret this instance of Elements in polar opposite fashion to the others.

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Lots of verses about the day of the Lord and what happens then, actually.

For your edification and that of our readers, here are the others, and no they aren't referring to stone tablets:
The Greek word for elements is stoicheia (stoy-khi'-on).

Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.

Galatians 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

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Yes we can use the word that way too. That has nothing to do with the new heavens and earth and the things in the last days though.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Colossians 2:20-22 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations; 21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using; according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

Hebrews 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

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Strawman verses. Principles of faith are not fire from heaven and burning the earth fervent heat etc.

In Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the literal meaning of the word is "element, rudiment, principle." In other words, this is the elements of religious training, or the ceremonial precepts that are common to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles. Obviously, this "stoicheia" (stoy-khi'-on) is not about atoms or destruction of the universe.

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Words can mean more than one thing. N news there. The melting of elements and all the things in the last days in Scripture are not that though.

Rather, there have been MULTIPLE "day of the Lord" events in Israels History, and Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the "heavens and earth" multiple times throughout history, again proving that it can not be referring to the material Cosmos which again, God established FOREVER.

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The final events of that time are in a time known as the day of the Lord. It is impossible to claim the things have happened yet. Just like it is impossible to claim the book of Revelations and all the events happened.

Is it?
Which heavens were these?:

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Look up.

Leviticus 26:14-20 19 I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.

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No way to take that to mean the heavens will be iron or whatever. Context.

One commentary says this. Much more sane that trying to turn the universe into cast iron!

" 19. I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass--No figures could have been employed to convey a better idea of severe and long-continued famine."
Leviticus - Chapter 26 - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary on StudyLight.org

Here is another..
"and I will make your heaven as iron;
so that neither dew nor rain shall descend from thence to make the earth fruitful; but, on the contrary, an heat should be reflected, which would parch it, and make it barren: and your earth as brass;
that the seed could not be cast into it, nor anything spring out of it, for the service of man and beast, so that a famine must unavoidably follow."

Leviticus - Chapter 26 - Verse 19 - The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible on StudyLight.org

Isaiah 1:1-2 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me;

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Newsflash: There are multitudes of living beings in the heavens.

Who is God speaking to here the physical creation? No, he is speaking to Israel. Again, we can see this idea clearly if we look at Isaiah 51

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Israel is included for those on earth...yes. So?

Isaiah 51:15-16 But I am the LORD your God, Who divided the sea whose waves roared; The LORD of hosts is His name. 16 And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, 'You are My people.'"

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He will again plant a heavens in the future, and Israel and Christians will be a very key part of it. He did not plant any new heavens in ancient history. We know that.

Most Bible scholars say that the Bible should be understood literally, if possible. Differences arise when people allegorize passages or just think it all happened long ago. In a lot of prophecy there has been a partial fulfilment; the full and final event awaits completion, as we are told by Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:11. The common, but incorrect seminary and Bible College teaching that says all the wrath of God, so comprehensively prophesied throughout the scriptures, has been abrogated and nullified by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. This leads pastors today to preach only personal salvation. Any mention of a judgement and punishment of peoples and nations is taboo and likely to lose them their tenure. But it will happen and Jesus Himself will instigate this punishment. Psalms 2:9, Luke 3:16-17

Because Bible prophecy is written ‘a little here, a little there’, Isaiah 28:9-10 and also a spirit of misunderstanding prevails among those who don’t make a serious attempt to understand the prophetic Word, Isaiah 6:9b-10, then the end time events will surprise most people. God’s Word has not been given to us so that no one can truly understand - the prophets Daniel 12:10 and Amos 3:7, say that we can know God’s plan for our future.

Here are some examples of prophecies that can and will be fulfilled in the near future:

Ezekiel 6:7-10 As the dead fall around you, you will know that the Lord has carried out His judgement against His enemies. Jeremiah 9:22 But My people, living amongst the nations who survive My punishment will remember Me from their places of exile. Then I will remove their wayward hearts and wanton eyes that look to idols, then they will loath themselves for all the evil they have done and the abominations they have committed. Ezekiel 37:14 They will know that, I the Lord, was not issuing vain threats about a punishment to come. Deut. 32:34-43

Daniel 12:1 At the time of the end of the age, Michael will appear, that great Captain who guards your kinsmen. There will be a time of anguish such has never been known until that moment. Joel 2:1-11. But at that time, your people will be delivered, everyone whose name is entered into the Book of Life. Malachi 3:16

Hosea 14:4-9 I shall heal My peoples apostasy, I shall love them freely for My anger is turned away from them. They will flourish once again in My shadow and will grow vigorously in the holy Land. Ephraim, [the Western peoples] you will no longer look to any idols and I declare that I will shelter and prosper you.
Who is wise? He will realize these things. Who is discerning? He will understand them. Jeremiah 9:12 The ways of the Lord are right and the righteous follow them, but the rebellious will stumble. James 1:21
Ref: REB, NIV.

The prophesied Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath by fire will happen, He has done it before with a flood, in Noah’s time. This time, it will be a terrifying and shocking event, a worldwide “time of anguish”, a terrible fire graphically described over 100 times throughout the Bible. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, etc. It will happen before the Return of Jesus in His glory, proved by how the Lord’s Christian believers will “dwell in His shadow and under the Lord’s shelter”. This is the completion of the prophecies of how the Lord’s holy people will live in peace and security in all of the Holy Land and the fulfilment of His promises to the Patriarchs. Ezekiel 34:11-16...I will rescue My people scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness and bring them to their own country. Our Heritage; Ephesians 1:11, Romans 8:16-17

dad said:

The final events of that time are in a time known as the day of the Lord.

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Actually, There have been several "Day of the Lord" events documented for us in scripture.

This particular "Day of the Lord" event took place in 539 BC:
Isaiah 13:6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13:9-13 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine. 11 "I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the LORD of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.


Isaiah 13:17 "Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, Who will not regard silver; And as for gold, they will not delight in it.

The desolation of Jerusalem by the Babylonians was also a past "Day of the Lord." After it happened, the prophet Jeremiah tells us:

Lamentations 1:12
behold, and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the LORD hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger.

Lamentations 2:1
How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger

Lamentations 2:21
The young and the old lie on the ground in the streets: my virgins and my young men are fallen by the sword; thou hast slain them in the day of thine anger; thou hast killed, and not pitied.

Lamentations 2:22
Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained

Furthermore, Ezekiel had foretold of this same Day of the Lord against Jerusalem which took place in the 500s BC, saying:

Ezekiel 7:19
They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of Jehovah: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.

And again, Ezekiel says of this same past Day of the Lord...

Ezekiel 13:2-5
Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts. Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of Jehovah.

The prophet Zephaniah also calls the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians "the Day of the Lord."

Zephaniah 1:1 - 1:7

The word of Yahweh which came to Zephaniah, the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hezekiah, in the days of Josiah, the son of Amon, king of Judah. I will utterly sweep away everything off of the surface of the earth, says Yahweh. I will sweep away man and animal. I will sweep away the birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, and the heaps of rubble with the wicked. I will cut off man from the surface of the earth, says Yahweh. I will stretch out my hand against Judah, and against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place: the name of the idolatrous and pagan priests, those who worship the host of the sky on the housetops, those who worship and swear by Yahweh and also swear by Malcam, those who have turned back from following Yahweh, and those who haven't sought Yahweh nor inquired after him. Be silent at the presence of the Lord Yahweh, for the day of Yahweh is at hand. For Yahweh has prepared a sacrifice. He has consecrated his guests.

Folks, there we have the classic "Day of the Lord" in scripture. Not one single one time event, but a phrase the prophets used to describe any number of Judgments.

It is impossible to claim the things have happened yet. Just like it is impossible to claim the book of Revelations and all the events happened.

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Yahweh's various day-of-the-Lord judgments were signaled by the prophets with common apocalyptic language that consists of common apocalyptic idioms and metaphoric doom language. See these fulfilled prophecies and note the common apocalyptic metaphors in each:

*Micah 1:1-9 -- Assyrian conquest of Samaria and Jerusalem
*Nahum 1:1-8 -- Nineveh's doom
*Zephaniah 1:1-10,14-18 -- Judgment against Judah
*2 Samuel 22:8-16 -- destruction of Saul's kingdom
*Ezekiel 32:1-12 -- Judgment against Egypt by Babylon

In each of these fulfilled passages, we read all of the common apocalyptic metaphors to describe Jehovah's comings:

*the destruction of earth
*the bowing of the heavens
*the melting of the mountains like wax
*the blackening of the sun, moon, and stars
*the wiping away of every living thing
*blood as high as the mountains
*the burning of the earth and all that dwell in it (at His presence)
*Etc. etc.

This is known as APOCALYPTIC LANGUAGE, which is Hebraic prophetic idiom used by the prophets to foretell the downfall of nations and individuals by God in history. It is uniquely apocalyptic and hyperbolic in nature. So also Christ, being of this well-known prophetic tradition, used the same apocalyptic language to foretell the downfall of Israel at her greatest Day of the Lord judgment at AD 66-70 (e.g., compare Matt 24:29-30 to Isaiah 13:10-11 concerning Babylon and Ezekiel 32:7-8 concerning Nebuchadnezzar and Egypt.)

--COMPARE THIS FULFILLED PASSAGE--
Ezekiel 32:7-8
And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.

--TO THIS FULFILLED PASSAGE--
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

--AND TO THIS FULFILLED PASSAGE--
Isaiah 13:10
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

This is all apocalyptic language employed by the Hebrew prophets concerning things and events that have already taken place. They do not prophesy whatsoever about things in our future, for they were already fulfilled.

In AD 67-70, coincident with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple at the end of the Old Covenant age, Jesus "came" in the manner and tradition of Yahweh's old testament comings. The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father. Jesus promised his apostles that he would return in their lifetimes "in the glory of the Father" (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). Christ's return at AD 67-70 was precisely in the manner and tradition of Yahweh's Old-Testament-era comings. We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)


These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16). Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20).

Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation. Jesus Christ, the Lord of heaven and earth, came in the glory of the Father and did so in the lifetimes of the apostles, exactly as he promised (Matt 16:27-28; 24:33-34).

parousia70 said:

Actually, There have been several "Day of the Lord" events documented for us in scripture.

This particular "Day of the Lord" event took place in 539 BC:
Isaiah 13:6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

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It WILL come. Same day of the Lord.

Isaiah 13:9-13 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

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Bingo! See the stars not shining!!? To claim that happened would be insanity.

The rest of your post seems to be more blatant out of context nonsense. Sorry.