Millennials lack a biblical worldview today

SolomonVII · Mar 26, 2017

RDKirk said:
You seem to be so frightened of the "s-word" and any possible thing that might resemble it that you're disposing of a central responsibility and characteristic of the Body of Christ.

Oh please, enough with the silly rhetoric.
Disagreeing with something is not a phobia.
I am not a-scared of the big bad socialist bogeyman.
And I do not appreciated being addressed as someone who "seems" to be anything.
My words are blunt enough that they can be taken at face value.

All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress

..And, pour expensive perfume over stinky feet.

You did a good job of avoiding actually dealing with my post though.
Good for you.

RDKirk · Mar 26, 2017

SolomonVII said:
You did a good job of avoiding actually dealing with my post though.
Good for you.

I did that right off. You asserted that Judas was concerned about feeding the poor, however scripture directly calls you wrong:

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages. He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

So you are simply flat wrong about Judas wanting to spend the money on the poor. Just flat wrong.

Then you went off on a tirade about socialism, and that had nothing to do with the thread.

Bible2+ · Mar 27, 2017

SolomonVII said in post #60:

Fulfillment defined as personal fulfillment has not spiritual value whatsoever.

That brought to mind what Jesus said:

Mark 8:34 . . . Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

--

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

*******

SolomonVII said in post #60 [in the signature]:

Islam, thus understood, is not non-Western. It is anti-Western.

It is also anti-Biblical.

For even though Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 5:17,75), it denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (Koran 9:30, Koran 4:171, Koran 5:72). And it denies that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins (Koran 4:157) and rose physically from the dead on the third day. In order to be saved, people have to believe the gospel that Jesus is both the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 3:16,36; 1 John 2:23), and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

*******

SolomonVII said in post #61:

The sin of Judas is the sin of socialism, and that is what young people of today have been turning to as the solution.

Note that the early church was communalist (Acts 2:44-45, Acts 4:32 to 5:11; 2 Corinthians 8:14-15).

The sin of Judas is loving money more than Jesus (John 12:3-6, Mark 14:3-11; cf. 1 Timothy 6:10, Matthew 6:24).

*******

SolomonVII said in post #74:

Who said that Judas was not truly interested in feeding the poor?

John 12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

*******

SolomonVII said in post #81:

..And, pour expensive perfume over stinky feet.

Mark 14:6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.
10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.
11 And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought how he might conveniently betray him.

Bible2+ · Mar 27, 2017

Original Happy Camper quoted someone in post #67:

Yet they also, misled by the teaching of the rabbis, shared the popular expectation of an earthly kingdom.

Note that the idea of an earthly kingdom is part of the Biblical worldview.

For presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21), and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' second coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' second coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all of the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in Jesus when they see him at his second coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' second coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Bible2+ · Mar 27, 2017

Charles said in post #68:

Some say Christianity will die out with this generation. I must say if it were not for the promise given by Christ to the Church I would be inclined to believe it as well.

Note that Daniel 12:7b shows that at Jesus' second coming, he will come to a church which will have been completely defeated physically by the Antichrist. For during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed to make war against the church and to overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all of the physical power of the church that the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' second coming will immediately occur, at which time he will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And at his second coming, Jesus will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so he/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For he/God will not share this glory with the church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

SolomonVII · Mar 27, 2017

Bible2+ said:
That brought to mind what Jesus said:

Mark 8:34 . . . Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

--

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

*******

It is also anti-Biblical.

For even though Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 5:17,75), it denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (Koran 9:30, Koran 4:171, Koran 5:72). And it denies that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins (Koran 4:157) and rose physically from the dead on the third day. In order to be saved, people have to believe the gospel that Jesus is both the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 3:16,36; 1 John 2:23), and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

*******

Note that the early church was communalist (Acts 2:44-45, Acts 4:32 to 5:11; 2 Corinthians 8:14-15).

The sin of Judas is loving money more than Jesus (John 12:3-6, Mark 14:3-11; cf. 1 Timothy 6:10, Matthew 6:24).

*******

John 12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

*******

Mark 14:6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.
10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.
11 And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought how he might conveniently betray him.

I did overstate my case for Judas, and stand corrected on that point It was explicit that Judas did not care for the poor, and was all about love of money only.

Of course, the larger point still stands that, even if the Bible as a whole is about charity for the poor, there is more to the faith than just being a soup kitchen for the poor.
Judas' statement that the money would be better spent on the poor than on a frivolous display of Jesus' feet was rebuked by Jesus himself. Those who would strip a church of its organs and leave the church on account of people placing value in beauty might do well to take Jesus's admonition about the expensive nard being poured on his feet to mind. If all is boiled down to an economic argument alone, Judas argument would carry the day. Beautiful sights and sounds and smells cost dollars that could fill a lot of bellies.
But man does not live by bread alone.

The communal aspect of the early church in the main failed for the church as a whole, although it did have success in later monastic life. The beginning of the end was seen in the demise of the agape feast, and the transformation of the Euchrarist from a communal meal to the more familiar wafer that is the norm today.

Fr. Charles + · Mar 27, 2017

Well said RDKirk!

Fr. Charles + · Mar 27, 2017

All_In said:
We aren't a dying breed. Trust me. We're just a breed that isn't televised.

I was writing in a broad sense of the current situation. Believers of your generation give us hope that you will fervently carry on the Good News!

Steve Petersen · Mar 27, 2017

OpenYourBibles said:
What are you suggesting with these statistics? What I interpolate... which could be incorrect... is that you are suggesting that the world is now a safer place than it was in the 1990's. If that is what you are saying, I simply ask you to apply common sense! I grew up in the 90's and rode my block around the block, I won't let my kids ride out of my eye sight! My parents never locked their doors and we never had a break in, I lock my doors every night and have had people try to pry through a locked dead bolt. I am not hanging the blame on millennials, but I surely will not accept that our world is becoming a better and safer place!

Perception and reality are often different.

Fr. Charles + · Mar 27, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
Perception and reality are often different.

I could not have responded with more insight to the situation then you did.

Archivist · Mar 27, 2017

SolomonVII said:
I did overstate my case for Judas, and stand corrected on that point It was explicit that Judas did not care for the poor, and was all about love of money only.

Of course, the larger point still stands that, even if the Bible as a whole is about charity for the poor, there is more to the faith than just being a soup kitchen for the poor.
Judas' statement that the money would be better spent on the poor than on a frivolous display of Jesus' feet was rebuked by Jesus himself. Those who would strip a church of its organs and leave the church on account of people placing value in beauty might do well to take Jesus's admonition about the expensive nard being poured on his feet to mind. If all is boiled down to an economic argument alone, Judas argument would carry the day. Beautiful sights and sounds and smells cost dollars that could fill a lot of bellies.
But man does not live by bread alone.

The communal aspect of the early church in the main failed for the church as a whole, although it did have success in later monastic life. The beginning of the end was seen in the demise of the agape feast, and the transformation of the Euchrarist from a communal meal to the more familiar wafer that is the norm today.

Thank you for finally agreeing that you were wrong regarding Judas.

Please reread the example that I provided. It would help if you would actually read what is written. I never said that the young people wanted to "strip the church of its organs." I said that they didn't want to buy a very expensive pipe organ. They wanted to buy something cheaper, and put the money saved into improving the food pantry. A digital organ with pipe resonators costs less than 1/4 the price of a pipe organ. The average person cannot ascertain any sound difference between the two.

Sine Nomine · Mar 27, 2017

Unfortunately, the survey referenced is overly biased and has an agenda.

"George Barna, the Executive Director of the American Culture and Faith Institute, noted that younger adults have historically held less conservative values than their elders. “The question that remains is how much the views of Millennials will eventually move to the right on the ideological continuum. The challenge to conservatives is that the current views of Millennials are so far to the left-of-center that even a typical amount of repositioning over time will leave the youngest generation considerably more liberal than desired, and more distant from traditional norms than has been the case during our lifetime.”

Barna clearly has the idea that a Christian worldview is conservative and that more liberal positions are undesired (by him). The standard that should be applied is that of Christ, not of Barna or any other person.

2consider · Mar 27, 2017

Original Happy Camper said:
"... Because 24 of every 25 Millennials lack a biblical worldview today"

Very interesting read.
Barna detects dangerous breach in the wall

“The light esteem in which the law of God is held, even by religious leaders, has been productive of great evil. The teaching, which has become so wide-spread that the divine statutes are no longer binding upon men, is the same as idolatry in its effect upon the morals of the people. Those who seek to lessen the claims of God’s holy law are striking directly at the foundation of the government of families and nations. Religious parents, failing to walk in his statutes, do not command their household to keep the way of the Lord. The law of God is not made the rule of life. The children, as they make homes of their own, feel under no obligation to teach their children what they themselves have never been taught. And this is why there are so many godless families; this is why depravity is so deep and wide-spread.” Christian Education, page 220.

The above paragraph was published in 1903

One of the primary problems stems from neglecting the foundations of the Bible, and why the laws are important. Without the foundations, how would a millennial understand why we need salvation and what we need salvation from.

SolomonVII · Mar 27, 2017

Archivist said:
Thank you for finally agreeing that you were wrong regarding Judas.

Please reread the example that I provided. It would help if you would actually read what is written. I never said that the young people wanted to "strip the church of its organs." I said that they didn't want to buy a very expensive pipe organ. They wanted to buy something cheaper, and put the money saved into improving the food pantry. A digital organ with pipe resonators costs less than 1/4 the price of a pipe organ. The average person cannot ascertain any sound difference between the two.

Did Jesus rebuke Judas for his hypocrisy, or did he rebuke him for criticizing money being wasted on what Judas stated was frivolous things?

Archivist · Mar 27, 2017

SolomonVII said:
Did Jesus rebuke Judas for his hypocrisy, or did he rebuke him for criticizing money being wasted on what Judas regarded as frivolous things?

If you read the entire passage it is clear that Jesus was aware that Judas was stealing from the common purse, so it appears to be a rebuke for his hypocrisy. Jesus did not regard feeding the poor as a "frivolous thing" as is clear from Matthew 19:21 where Jesus told the rich man "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

SolomonVII · Mar 27, 2017

Archivist said:
If you read the entire passage it is clear that Jesus was aware that Judas was stealing from the common purse, so it appears to be a rebuke for his hypocrisy. Jesus did not regard feeding the poor as a "frivolous thing" as is clear from Matthew 19:21 where Jesus told the rich man "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

I have read the entire passage.
Making the argument that Jesus did not regard feeding the poor as a frivolous thing is a red herring.
I fully recognize that there are double, triple and even quadruple entendres in Jesus' words, especially in the gospel of John. (The most significant rebuke to be inferred here, I think, is not that Judas is a hypocrite, but that he is a murderer. Ergo the funeral talk.)

But, my question regards the plain words of Jesus at the moment.

Did the plain words of Jesus criticize Judas for being up in arms for money being wasted on frivolous things, when the poor are always among us?

Archivist · Mar 27, 2017

SolomonVII said:
I have read the entire passage.
Making the argument that Jesus did not regard feeding the poor as a frivolous thing is a red herring.
I fully recognize that there are double, triple and even quadruple entendres in Jesus' words, especially in the gospel of John. (The most significant rebuke to be inferred here, I think, is not that Judas is a hypocrite, but that he is a murderer. Ergo the funeral talk.)

But, my question regards the plain words of Jesus at the moment.

Did the plain words of Jesus criticize Judas for being up in arms for money being wasted on frivolous things, when the poor are always among us?

But Jesus would never have described feeding the poor as a "frivolous thing."

SolomonVII · Mar 27, 2017

Archivist said:
But Jesus would never have described feeding the poor as a "frivolous thing."

That is not the question at hand, nor is it what is being described as frivloous.
Look, if you do not want to answer the question, don't, but continuing with the red herring line is dishonest. Dishonesty makes conversation impossible.

Archivist · Mar 27, 2017

SolomonVII said:
That is not the question at hand, nor is it what is being described as frivloous.
Look, if you do not want to answer the question, don't, but continuing with the red herring line is dishonest. Dishonesty makes conversation impossible.

And I already answered your question in post 95: "If you read the entire passage it is clear that Jesus was aware that Judas was stealing from the common purse, so it appears to be a rebuke for his hypocrisy." I'm not being "dishonest" as you are claiming.

Sine Nomine · Mar 27, 2017

2consider said:
One of the primary problems stems from neglecting the foundations of the Bible, and why the laws are important. Without the foundations, how would a millennial understand why we need salvation and what we need salvation from.

The survey doesn't really address that question, so the results can't be interpreted to mean that millennials have neglected Biblical foundations.

Millennials lack a biblical worldview today

Well-Known Member

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Matthew 4:4

Matthew 4:4

Matthew 4:4

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Senior Veteran

Active Member

Senior Veteran

Scientist and Christian

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Scientist and Christian

Similar threads