If you commit sin are you still of God? Yes or no

more4less said:

John 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

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Oscarr said:

Sinless Perfection was first put forward by John Wesley, but he said that it was faith that works through love. He rejected the view that one could be absolutely sinless in this life. We can read more about this on Wikipedia on "Sinless Perfection". It was revived by the Holiness Movement which took it further than Wesley and became very legalistic in their approach to it. They called it Entire Sanctification and churches like the Wesleyan Methodist and Nazarene Churches took it up. There were some other Holiness denominations as well and they called it the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in that when a person was baptised with the Spirit they achieved entire sanctification. They tended to be very judgmental toward those who did not reach what they viewed as complete holiness. All other Protestant denominations reject it, including Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist, and Methodist (other than Wesleyan).

Jonathan Edwards and Charles Finney believed in confessing all known sin but rejected sinless perfection. Actually, John Wesley said that it is possible to overcome willful and deliberate sin and we can control whether we do it or not, but there are compulsive sins like anger, thoughts of envy, doubting, fearfulness, frustration, etc., that are not actual sins in the sense that we can control in our emotions, and that it is impossible for us to get entirely free from. As long as we experience these emotional "sins" we can never be sinlessly perfect.

Sinless perfection coupled with salvation is Arminian theology, which teaches that a person can be saved today and lost tomorrow, and that man has absolute choice whether he decided for Christ, and he can decide just as quickly to abandon Christ on a whim. This is an extreme theology and is considered by most orthodox theologians as unreliable theology. Most, like Charles Finney, place themselves halfway between Arminian and Calvinist. They believe in eternal security for the believer as long as he remains a believer. If a person stops being a believer, then he can lose his salvation. But he cannot lose his salvation by being sinlessly imperfect, as the extreme Holiness groups teach.

In my view, this extreme Holiness teaching is nothing but a derivative of what the false apostles tried to teach the Galatians and whom Paul violently opposed to the point where he went to Jerusalem and had it out with the Apostles. In my view extreme Arminianism is a heresy and false doctrine.

As for me, I hold to the only three requirements that apply to Gentile believers: refrain from fornication, eating food dedicated to idols, and consuming blood. If the Apostles place no further restrictions on the Gentile believers, then I will not place any further restrictions on myself, nor will I allow any person to place any other restrictions on me. If the Holy Spirit tells me that what I am doing is wrong, I will stop doing it. If He doesn't then I don't see any reason why I should.

So there!

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1. The 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God. For John says, “And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.” (Revelation 14:3-5).
   
   
2. Enoch was translated and did not see death because he walked with the LORD and pleased GOD. For the author of Hebrews says, “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.” (Hebrews 11:5); And Moses had written in the Torah, “And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” (Genesis 5:24).
   
   
3. Jesus says, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48).
   
   
4. GOD says, “Be ye holy as I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16 cf. Leviticus 11:45).
   
   
5. Jesus said to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man that Jesus healed that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him. For Jesus said, “sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).
   
   
6. Jesus says, “If you want to be perfect sell your possessions and give them to the poor” (Matthew 19:21).
   
   
7. We are told in Scripture that he [i.e. anyone] that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. For Peter says, “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).
   
   
8. Paul says, “And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24).
   
   
9. James says, “If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2).
   
   
10. Paul says, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13).
    
    
11. David says, “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalms 119:11).
    
    
12. Paul says, “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him” (Romans 6:6-8).
    
    
13. Paul says, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12). John says, “sin not.” (1 John 2:1).
    
    
14. Paul says, “For sin shall not have dominion over you.” (Romans 6:14).
    
    
15. Paul says, “Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.” (Romans NLT). Jesus says, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. (John 8:34). John says he that sins is of the devil (1 John 1:8).
    
    
16. Paul says, “You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.” (Romans 6:18 NIV).
    
    
17. Paul says, “For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.” (Romans 6:20 BLB). Paul also says, “But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.” (Romans 6:22 ISV).
    
    
18. Peter says, “there are false prophets... who cannot cease from sin.” (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). This is similar to those who are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of GOD (1 Timothy 3:1-9). For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him (1 John 2:4).
    
    
19. Jesus says, “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41). What is the point of watching and praying so as not to be led into temptation if you are going to inevitably sin again?
    
    
20. Paul says “Be ye angry, and sin not:” (Ephesians 4:26).
    
    
21. John says, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)
    
    
22. John says,“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” (1 John 5:4). John also says, “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (1 John 2:16). For John says, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15).
    
    
23. Paul says, “Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34).
    
    
24. The author of Hebrews says, “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Hebrews 13:20-21).
    
    
25. John says, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness” (1 John 5:18-19).
    
    
26. Sinless Perfectionism is the goal for a believer’s life. For Paul says, “Not that I have already obtained it [this goal of being Christlike] or have already been made perfect, but I actively press on so that I may take hold of that [perfection] for which Christ Jesus took hold of me and made me His own.” (Philippians 3:12 AMP).
    
    
27. Jesus says, “The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40).
    
    
28. Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).
    
    
29. Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
    
    
30. James says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” (James 1:4). James also says, ““Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (James 2:22).
    
    
31. Jesus says, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).
    
    
32. Paul says, “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).
    
    
33. Paul says, “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,” (Ephesians 4:1).
    
    
34. Paul says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4). Paul also says, “For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).
    
    
35. Zacharias says, “That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.” (Luke 1:74-75).
    
    
36. Paul says, “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;” (Colossians 1:20-23).
    
    
37. Paul says, “And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all men, even as we do for you. To this end may He establish your hearts to be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.” (1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 MEV).
    
    
38. Paul says,“Men, brothers, I have conducted-myself with all good conscience before God up to this day” (Acts 23:1 DLNT)
    
    
39. Paul says, “This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person [or the perfect Man; Christ], growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [ to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness ].” (Ephesians 4:13 EXB).
    
    
40. Paul says, “It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ” (Colossians 1:28 NABRE).
    
    
41. Paul says, “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2).
    
    
42. Paul says, “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” (Colossians 2:11).
    
    
43. Paul says, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
    
    
44. The author Hebrews says, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).
    
    
45. Paul says, “...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:25-27). Jesus says, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19). For Jesus says, “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).
    
    
46. John says, “For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).
    
    
47. Paul says, “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).
    
    
48. Jesus says, “So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 22:10-13). A Multitude of People in Heaven says, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.(Revelation 19:7-8). Note: the fine linen that represents the righteousness of the saints is the same wedding garment that the man at the wedding did not have on.
    
    
49. Paul says, “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15).
    
    
50. John says, “But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

Jason0047 said:

We fulfill the Law by faith according to Romans 8:3-5. Christ's sacrifice allows us to walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus so as to fulfill that righteous aspect or part of the Law (i.e. the moral law in loving our neighbor - See Romans 13:8-10). That is the fulfilmment of the Old Law. To love. Love God and love your neighbor. But under the New Covenant, there are also New Commands. These are specific detailed instructions that you will not just automatically do on your own if you have a mere belief on Jesus alone. You need to actually study and apply these commands to your life. Well, that is if you love Jesus (that is). For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commands (John 14:15).


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A_Thinker said:

Yes ... I think that in using such language, John is describing the origins of the ACT, not categorizing the PERSON committing the ACT.

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For example, when Peter opposed Jesus' coming passion, Jesus addressed Satan, telling him to "Get behind me ... ", but He continued to act as a mentor/teacher to Peter.

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Peter's lapse (into sin) did not sever his relationship with Jesus. Of course, neither did his ultimate denial of Christ ...

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Jason0047 said:

Problem #1. ~ "You do not understand that Sinless Perfectionism is a teaching in the Bible."
For when you say that you will not overcome sin in this life, it not only goes against living holy it goes against the Bible. For if a person is sober free or free from alcohol, they cannot say they are really free from their addiction unless they have overcome it. In other words, you cannot say you are walking holy if you are also stumbling into sin. It would destroy every verse in the Bible that talks about perfection and holiness for us believers. See my 50 points in Scripture on Sinless Perfectionism here. For me, I see it as a declaration that you are going to sin at some unknown future date (as if it was a decree written in stone). You cannot stop sinning, so when you do sin, it is no big deal because that is a part of your nature. This is not what the Bible teaches. God's people are not a defeated people who are slaves to sin in this life (See 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, Colossians 1:28, 1 Peter 1:16).

Problem #2. ~ You do not understand what repentance is.
You believe repentance is something different other than what the Bible says.
Repentance is actually confessing sin to the Lord (which is then followed by the proper fruits or deeds of repentance).

Read Matthew 3:6 (and compare it with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5). This is repentance.

As for the normal after effects of repentance: Well, John also said to for them to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Matthew 3:8). This lines up with Acts that says we are to perform deeds befitting of repentance (Acts 26:20).

In Acts 8, Peter tells Simon to repent of his wickedness (his sin) and to pray to God so as to be forgiven because his heart is not right with God (Acts 8:17-24).

Furthermore, Jesus defined repentance for us so you really cannot change it's meaning into what you like it to be.

Jesus said the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah (Matthew 12:41). If you were to turn to Jonah 3:6-10, you would see that the King of the Ninevites told the people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Admit their sinful condition in a Godly way or confess their sin) (repentance) and
(b) Turn away from their wicked ways (Forsake their sin) (i.e. the after effects of true repentance).​

God noticed that they turned from their evil or wickedness and God had then turned away from bringing judgment or wrath He was going to bring upon them originally. This truth is confirmed elsewhere in the Bible. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (Which is another way of saying a person is forsaking their sin because they are walking uprightly or walking in the light - Also see 1 John 2:3-6).

Problem #3. ~ You do not understand what 1 John 1:8 is actually saying.

Then what is 1 John 1:8 saying?

What is relevant to understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at it's immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 moves it into a past declaration. There are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned at some point in their life (Regardless of whether they are an OSAS believer or a Conditional Salvationist). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their sins are paid for: Past, present, and future by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for it all by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

As for overcoming sin:

Well, 1 John 1:9 is just one of the methods of overcoming sin. It is not the sole method mentioned in the Bible of course.

I believe there are several methods to help you to overcome your sin by God's Word and with the help of Jesus.

1. Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin.
   
   
2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin. God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well.
   
   
3. Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh.
   
   
4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil. So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).
   
   
5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help.
   
   
6. Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord.
   
   
7. Confess of your sins (Which you already mentioned). 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I would also encourage you to check out Allan Ballou's videos here:

Alan Ballou's YouTube Page.

Alan Ballou's website is:
How to stop sinning | HowToStopSinning.com


Anyways, I hope this helps.
May you please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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1stcenturylady said:

Right, Jason. You said, "But under the New Covenant, there are also New Commands. These are specific detailed instructions that you will not just automatically do on your own if you have a mere belief on Jesus alone. You need to actually study and apply these commands to your life."

Paul even tells us when something is a commandment of the Lord, and when it is his own educated reasoning.

For instance:

1 Corinthians 7: 25 Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. 26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

1 Corinthians 14: 39 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

Too many when they see the word, 'commandments,' immediately revert their thinking to the Ten Commandments, which said nothing about believing in their Messiah, Jesus, or even LOVE. And many today, break the NT commandments out of unbelief that they are not for themselves.

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Jason0047 said:

I remember one time when I heard a Christian blurt out loudly in an irritated fashion amongst a setting of other Christians,

"...all we have to do is obey the 10 commandments!"​

Needless to say I tried not to roll my eyes when I heard that.
In any event, I pray this man is doing well and that he will come to the understanding from the Lord on this matter someday soon.
I also ask you to pray for him, as well.

As for 1 Corinthians 7:
Yes, it is true, Paul did not receive a Command directly and yet he gave his judgment in whom the Lord trusted (in regards to his judgment). So I would take the certain words (that Paul says are not commands of the LORD) that come from Paul in 1 Corinthians 7 as helpful counsel or advice from God and not as commands.

For Paul says,
"I think I am giving you counsel from God’s Spirit when I say this." (1 Corinthians 7:40 NLT).

Counsel is helpful advice or the study of the teachings of wisdom. Commands are more like, you should do this, and wisdom is more like helpful advice that is good for you but is not a requirement.

As for 1 Corinthians 14:37, I believe Paul is saying that many of the things that sounds like a command in ALL of his writings (that are not stated that they are not a command like some of his words in 1 Corinthians 7) should be regarded as the Lord's commandments. For Paul says if any man thinks himself to be spiritual let him know that what I write are the Lord's commandments. Every believer obviously will naturally think they spritual because they are spiritually minded and not carnally minded. So anything that sounds like a command from Paul should be regarded as the Lord's commands in any of his written works.



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1stcenturylady said:

Right, I take his words as Scripture as Peter said, but I thank Paul for giving us this example for us today to help our discussion. LOL

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Rescued1 said:

I am the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ, even amidst the darkness that tries to overtake me. So, yes, although I struggle with sins of the flesh, I am still of God because He has forgiven past, present, and future sins as long as we confess them and repent of them. Stay connected to the Vine and He will stay connected to you.

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Jason0047 said:

But I believe our definitions on holy living is different and our understanding on sin in relation to salvation is different (Which relates to holiness).

I believe holy living is not an endless "get dirty and then get clean" wash cycle here within this life. Holy living is the believer overcoming their sin within this life. Meaning, the believer will not be a slave to sin in this life and they will not seek to make excuses for sin by saying they will sin at some unknown future date (As if it was a decree written in stone). For sin is ahead of their path. Sin has dominon over them. It rules their life because they are going to sin again (and they know this).

Also, the believer will not turn God's grace into a license for immorality and say that if it is just one sin they commit, this will magically somehow not separate them from God for some reason (Despite the many warnings in Scripture that say to the contrary).

The Eternal Security or Easy Believism type thinking on sin is sort of like an alcoholic who joins a program to be sober and drug free but yet they have no real intention of giving up the bottle. So they remain a slave to their sin.

God's people are not a defeated people.
They can have the victory over their sin in this life by the power of the LORD.


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rjs330 said:

I hope you are not thinking that is what is going on here. The word is clear that we are not to use grace as a license to sin. You are absolutely correct that we are to live a holy life in Christ free from sins bondage. We can't make excuses for sin. God doesn't excuse our sin either. Yes we can have victory over sin. In fact Paul says we are not slaves to sin. I agree with all you have said except the part that says one sin will separate us from God, meaning one sin dooms us eternally from salvation. The word is clear that it doesn't necessarily do that. I John says just that along with Paul's teachings and Hebrews. The mistake you make is three fold.

1. Making it sound that we are excusing sin and we can all sin Willy nilly and be just fine. That is NOT what we are saying. We can absolutely walk away from grace and doom ourselves to destruction. But.
2. One sin dooms us to destruction and removed our salvation.
3. That Christians can be sinless. That is not possible. We can have victory over sin in our lives, but we will always have one more thing to overcome. My mother served the Lord her whole life as a devout Christian woman and Pastors wife. But even before she passed away in her 70s she committed sin. She would never be sinless. This woman prayed non stop and read and studied her Bible faithfully every day. Yet she was not sinless. It's not possible on this Earth to achieve sinless perfection.

That should be our aim of course. Living holy and righteous lives. All our efforts and energy should be going that direction through the power of the Holy Spirit in us and allowing Christ to live through us. Doing so allows us to grow continually in Christ increasing our recognition of our power over sin.

Yes we need to confess our sin and repent of it. Not because we are suddenly unsaved because unrepentant sin leads to more unrepentant sin causing a continuous action of sin which leads us away from God and puts us into fiery judgement.

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Jason0047 said:

Hmmm, sorry. I am going to have to disagree with you on this one here.
The Bible does not say we are forgiven of present and future sin automatically by having a belief on Jesus as our Savior.

1 John 1:7 says, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

That is how the blood cleanses us. If we walk in the light of Christ. This means walking in his commands. This of course happens after a person accepts Christ as their Savior and is saved.
So no, I am not suggesting Man Directed Works Salvationism.
I am suggesting that Jesus is the source of our salvation.
For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
If the Lord who is the source of our life or salvation lives in us, the good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident in our lives.
Also, a person can have an assurance of salvation right here and right now.
A person can be saved at any moment by confessing their sins to the Lord or by asking Jesus to forgive them.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9).

There would be no point to confess sin so as to be forgiven if my future sin was paid for already.
I get forgiven when I confess sin if any known sin stands between me and God.
It's God's grace that saves.
But true saving grace leads to the Lord transforming us out of a life of sin and not into it.
For Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8).

And Christ gave himself for the church that He might sanctify and cleanse it and so that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

Jesus gave himself so as to redeem us from all iniquity.

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

It's why we are told to do the following...

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).



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1stcenturylady said:

These are very good steps in trying to overcome sin in your own strength. But, don't forget even the Pharisees did many of these steps.

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1stCenturyLady said:

#1. Remove yourself. Very good and true. The Pharisees wouldn't even enter a Gentile's house.

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1stCenturyLady said:

#2. Fast and pray. Also, very good and true. The Pharisees did those even more than we do today.

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1stCenturyLady said:

#3. Obey God's righteous ways. Yes, now we are getting somewhere by loving, and the first mention of the Spirit. The Pharisees tried to keep and obey God's righteous ways through the law.

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1stCenturyLady said:

#4. Quote scripture. When I was young as a SDA, we memorized verses of scripture, especially the Ten Commandments. I can still quote them, plus name all the books of the Bible in order. But, I still sinned.

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1stCenturyLady said:

#5. Ask for help. Yes, even when we get sick, if we do not have faith to be well, ask for the elders of the church to anoint you with oil, and confess this sin of unbelief, so you may become well. Most of our problems are due to unbelief.

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1stCenturyLady said:

#6. Again, memorize scripture. I'm so thankful I memorized "Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. 11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me." I literally prayed that scripture the night I was born again.

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1stCenturyLady said:

#7. Confess your sins. Absolutely, this is how to become a Christian. But you must mean it. If you do God will give you the Holy Spirit to give you power over sin. “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Without the Holy Spirit, we can do many things, but just be a Pharisee.

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