Did Paul Do This?

Big Drew said:

So in this view then, does it mean that all who come to faith in Christ are not only spiritual Israel, but are literal physical descendants of Jacob as well?

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I don't know... I think that it is "possible" that some or all Christians are descendants of the Northern Kingdom. But I said "possible" based on that... in the end it doesn't matter Drew. Remember the foreigners (strangers) who came out of Egypt with Israel? When they got to Mt. Sinai God said the Law was for them too, He told the Israelites to "treat them as if native born," and then told them to "assimilate into the tribes you travel with." Basically... they were grafted in. So while I think it is possible that we are descendants... it doesn't matter because either way we have come to the God of Israel through the messiah of Israel and that makes us a real and tangible part of Israel. Not the nation state in the Middle east... but the true Israel, "God's chosen people." We are part of them through Christ.

not aside,
but something reminded me of the article, D
relating to what Paul was up against

fyi ; )

Jacob I loved, Esau I hated.

Big Drew said:

In 1 Corinthians Paul speaks about divisions in the Church. How some were saying they were of Paul, others Apollos, others Cephas. When addressing this he asked, "Are we not all of Christ?" Meaning just because it was the message of Paul or Apollos that lead someone to Christ, that doesn't mean they are a follower of Paul or Apollos.

In 2 Peter, Peter writes that some of things Paul writes about are hard to understand and some folks twist them like they do other scriptures.

In thinking about this I realized that a lot of division we have amongst ourselves does come from Paul's writings.

Part of the error within some dispensational thought, for example, is that Paul preached a separate Gospel of Grace for the gentiles.

The Calvinist idea of election and predestination is heavily based on the book of Romans.

Sola Fide from Galatians.

The Continuist vs Cessationist debate comes from opposing views of 1 Corinthians.

The rapture from Thessalonians...

I can go on...but I wonder what it is about Paul's letters that have caused so much division? What is it about them that makes them hard to understand? Does it just seem like there's more division based on his teachings because he wrote the majority of the NT?

I have wondered if we didn't have Paul's epistles in the Bible if we would be more unified. Not that I'm saying we should disregard them...because there is much truth to be found in his words...nor do I think that Paul is to blame, but our interpretations of what he said...but is there a remedy?

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Paul may have penned those words, but they are in fact God's words.
As for your line of thought, watch out and be careful...you are speaking of God's Word.
There has been sin and division...which is a sin...since the beginning. Didn't the Israelites build the Golden Calf to worship (and Aaron did the melting down of the gold and casting of it). You are taking a dangerous course and exposing others to your folly.

..the strange is, that many christians 'forgot' that Peter was never in Rome !
Paul was - but not Peter !
...Peter was typically sent to the semite-communities [north+east of palestine] , where the book of Acts tells he was resisted 63 x by synagogues ;
but he was never in Rome !

- so what is that vati-can talking about..?

however - there was anóther 'peter',
named Simon (the sorcerer)
who tried to buy from the apostles their gift

Why
does the snake+chest (vatican) hold 'bones of peter' in their basement, to worship ?
.. - since Osiris is typically the one buried

Big Drew said:

In 1 Corinthians Paul speaks about divisions in the Church. How some were saying they were of Paul, others Apollos, others Cephas. When addressing this he asked, "Are we not all of Christ?" Meaning just because it was the message of Paul or Apollos that lead someone to Christ, that doesn't mean they are a follower of Paul or Apollos.

In 2 Peter, Peter writes that some of things Paul writes about are hard to understand and some folks twist them like they do other scriptures.

In thinking about this I realized that a lot of division we have amongst ourselves does come from Paul's writings.

Part of the error within some dispensational thought, for example, is that Paul preached a separate Gospel of Grace for the gentiles.

The Calvinist idea of election and predestination is heavily based on the book of Romans.

Sola Fide from Galatians.

The Continuist vs Cessationist debate comes from opposing views of 1 Corinthians.

The rapture from Thessalonians...

I can go on...but I wonder what it is about Paul's letters that have caused so much division? What is it about them that makes them hard to understand? Does it just seem like there's more division based on his teachings because he wrote the majority of the NT?

I have wondered if we didn't have Paul's epistles in the Bible if we would be more unified. Not that I'm saying we should disregard them...because there is much truth to be found in his words...nor do I think that Paul is to blame, but our interpretations of what he said...but is there a remedy?

Click to expand...

I don't think the question can be answered as history without Paul's writings would be very different.

throughfireytrial said:

Paul may have penned those words, but they are in fact God's words.
As for your line of thought, watch out and be careful...you are speaking of God's Word.
There has been sin and division...which is a sin...since the beginning. Didn't the Israelites build the Golden Calf to worship (and Aaron did the melting down of the gold and casting of it). You are taking a dangerous course and exposing others to your folly.

Click to expand...

..true, TFT,
but there appeared to be such a deep Split, that it even divided Paul and Peter....which should be completely Impossible..

so deep is that split,
that He tells that 'but in the end-time, the two staffs will be made as 1 again' (Ezekiel) , between the house of Juda (Judahites, not 'jews') and Israel (10 tribes)

question is, what is so deep split-

answer can be,
that israel (10 tribes) represented "fallen adamites, in this world",
while judahites (the 2 southern kingdom) represented "Gods original creation"

..if you think about it , it may be Valid :
compare the event of the pregnant Mary and Elisabeth ;
the latter carried John, representing ús, in this fallen state ;
Mary carrying Him - our original state

.......

I think that part of the reason for the disagreeing about Paul's writings is so people can keep their attention away from how Jesus and Paul are telling us to become like Jesus and love the way Jesus in us has us finding out how to love.

throughfireytrial said:

Paul may have penned those words, but they are in fact God's words.
As for your line of thought, watch out and be careful...you are speaking of God's Word.
There has been sin and division...which is a sin...since the beginning. Didn't the Israelites build the Golden Calf to worship (and Aaron did the melting down of the gold and casting of it). You are taking a dangerous course and exposing others to your folly.

Click to expand...

added - pondering -

..evenmore so,
because He uses the term 'David' and 'prince' , in the next interval (1000 y) ;

not, ofcourse, indicating that he has an exempt one [He isn't like that] ,
but 'David' representing the beings He will have us to be
[read : ruling, power]

right ?

so, seen like this,
then the 'two staffs' is a re-union between our fallen present state,
and the original state (of us) which He has already prepared

- note,
it cannot be coincidence,
that false tribes álso claim to be ' from David' ;
just like islam claims to be 'from abraham'

...

Big Drew said:

In 1 Corinthians Paul speaks about divisions in the Church. How some were saying they were of Paul, others Apollos, others Cephas. When addressing this he asked, "Are we not all of Christ?" Meaning just because it was the message of Paul or Apollos that lead someone to Christ, that doesn't mean they are a follower of Paul or Apollos.

In 2 Peter, Peter writes that some of things Paul writes about are hard to understand and some folks twist them like they do other scriptures.

In thinking about this I realized that a lot of division we have amongst ourselves does come from Paul's writings.

Part of the error within some dispensational thought, for example, is that Paul preached a separate Gospel of Grace for the gentiles.

The Calvinist idea of election and predestination is heavily based on the book of Romans.

Sola Fide from Galatians.

The Continuist vs Cessationist debate comes from opposing views of 1 Corinthians.

The rapture from Thessalonians...

I can go on...but I wonder what it is about Paul's letters that have caused so much division? What is it about them that makes them hard to understand? Does it just seem like there's more division based on his teachings because he wrote the majority of the NT?

I have wondered if we didn't have Paul's epistles in the Bible if we would be more unified. Not that I'm saying we should disregard them...because there is much truth to be found in his words...nor do I think that Paul is to blame, but our interpretations of what he said...but is there a remedy?

Click to expand...

Paul was aware people were being too proud of individual church leaders a.k.a Paul or Apollos instead of praising Christ whose Gospel they had learned.

Paul wrote that before Jesus there was the law. After Jesus came, the people might be justified by faith (Jesus' teachings).

World English Bible (public domain) - Galatians 3:22 But the Scriptures imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, confined for the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring[k] and heirs according to promise.

Paul sometimes went to a diaspora synagogue to teach. There were Jews and God fearing Greeks there who were friends of the synagogue in his audience. One dispute that divided the Jewish Christians was as to whether the Gentile converts should be circumcised and made to obey the Torah in its entirety, or not. This dispute is recorded in Acts 15:1-21. Paul and Barnabas opposed the circumcision sect. In those days as in modern times, converts to Judaism must be circumcised if they are not already circumcised. Peter sided with Paul in teaching them to avoid foods sacrificed to idols, other foods and fornication, but not laying on Gentile believers the yoke of obeying the entire law. There was also a note that the law was available for people's review as taught in synagogues.

..i so, so want to get out of this silly hell...

so sweet gf i have...and everyday in so much cancer pain...

yet He showed her the change... with all the other 144000... and as blazing torches of pure love going to all those who chose too late or didnt know...

dqhall said:

After Jesus came, the people might be justified by faith (Jesus' teachings).

Click to expand...

"faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6)

and never - ever - again
i want to hear that Silly pathetic story "as if we, in the West, as believers have been grafted into a fake tribe" :

i tell you: God Himself is furious about that type Debile nonsense !

it is Esauite Drivel - that's what it is !!!

concocted by deep Evil,
manipulating Dark Evil,
based upon complete Ignorance and submissive Cowardness !

read my lips :

Our God loves YOU

as if you were the only one, He ever made.

Big Drew said:

In 1 Corinthians Paul speaks about divisions in the Church. How some were saying they were of Paul, others Apollos, others Cephas. When addressing this he asked, "Are we not all of Christ?" Meaning just because it was the message of Paul or Apollos that lead someone to Christ, that doesn't mean they are a follower of Paul or Apollos.

In 2 Peter, Peter writes that some of things Paul writes about are hard to understand and some folks twist them like they do other scriptures.

In thinking about this I realized that a lot of division we have amongst ourselves does come from Paul's writings.

Part of the error within some dispensational thought, for example, is that Paul preached a separate Gospel of Grace for the gentiles.

The Calvinist idea of election and predestination is heavily based on the book of Romans.

Sola Fide from Galatians.

The Continuist vs Cessationist debate comes from opposing views of 1 Corinthians.

The rapture from Thessalonians...

I can go on...but I wonder what it is about Paul's letters that have caused so much division? What is it about them that makes them hard to understand? Does it just seem like there's more division based on his teachings because he wrote the majority of the NT?

I have wondered if we didn't have Paul's epistles in the Bible if we would be more unified. Not that I'm saying we should disregard them...because there is much truth to be found in his words...nor do I think that Paul is to blame, but our interpretations of what he said...but is there a remedy?

Click to expand...

The remedy is the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13 - When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

In all my journey to God and with God the HOLY SPIRIT has so often times been the most negated and overlooked piece to the puzzle that is God Himself. The very BIBLE itself was written by the HOLY SPIRIT. MEN..who were INSPIRED by IT.
It is GOD's VERY SPIRIT...that produces...HIS WORD...that HAS HIM TO SAY....I Am.

The Bible says this..

Ephesians 5:18 - And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
Acts 6:3 - "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
Micah 3:8 - On the other hand I am filled with power-- With the Spirit of the LORD-- And with justice and courage To make known to Jacob his rebellious act, Even to Israel his sin.
Exodus 31:3 - "I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship,
Luke 1:15 - "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

To understand Paul...is to be filled...because it was the only way he even WROTE the Epistles..

Acts 9:17 - So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

I think Paul's writings reveal more than what a lot of people are comfortable with and that leads to some extremes. Predestination for instance, I've seen people and even preachers skip right over those verses. I don't know if they don't understand them or just don't want to acknowledge them. It's there though, skipping them doesn't remove them from the Bible.

I see the divisions as mostly divisions of understanding.

david.d said:

I think Paul's writings reveal more than what a lot of people are comfortable with and that leads to some extremes. Predestination for instance, I've seen people and even preachers skip right over those verses. I don't know if they don't understand them or just don't want to acknowledge them. It's there though, skipping them doesn't remove them from the Bible.

I see the divisions as mostly divisions of understanding.

Click to expand...

In a Baptist setting, I could see them being skipped because they would be too controversial, given the Calvinist/Arminian plurality inherent in most Baptist churches.

throughfireytrial said:

Paul may have penned those words, but they are in fact God's words.
As for your line of thought, watch out and be careful...you are speaking of God's Word.
There has been sin and division...which is a sin...since the beginning. Didn't the Israelites build the Golden Calf to worship (and Aaron did the melting down of the gold and casting of it). You are taking a dangerous course and exposing others to your folly.

Click to expand...

- and here is the story,
of how God will destroy this awful mixture of fake-jews, having blended-in with dear Judahite :

in the story of Joseph [representing 10 tribes] against the 11 brothers ;
more complete story : in the book of Jubilees ,