The nature of God

TheoryofForms said:

My belief is that various beliefs make God out to be a trickster:

Believing the devil isn't real (because who is God talking to in the Bible then?)
Believing in Creationism ("God hid things that make the world look really old.")
Believing in hell or eternal death ("God is love but He is also very bitter and angry.")

If that means I have to drink the kool-aid, oh well.

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I don't know whether you are receiving other comments to your original post or not but I'm receiving emails every time someone posts to the subject. I cannot say that I have ever read a Christian commentary that was 100% correct. Biblical intelligencia has always lost me. Since anyone who is going to Heaven must become as a little child, dogma speak doesn't seem to fit The Scripture below.

Matt.18

1. 
   [3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

One example that I pray is illuminating is when the disciples wanted to show the buildings of the temple to Christ in the beginning of Mathew 24. Christ explains that not one stone will be left upon another of these buildings. Should you read a commentary about these verses, you should find that indeed, the buildings of the temple were destroyed in 70 AD. However, the true Spiritual message that Christ was teaching is that every stone in your temple not placed by God The Father after Christ who is The Cornerstone is coming down.

ViaCrucis said:

A fundamental tenet of Christian theology is the ineffability and incomprehensibility of God's nature. That is God is, in His Essence or Being, completely unknowable. The only way we can know God and know of God is by revelation, by His "Energies", that is, what God does. God's way of revealing Himself throughout history has been diverse, but as Christians what is absolutely central is God's revelation of Himself in and through Jesus, God's Word made flesh. When it comes to God's own Essence we simply have no frame of reference, we have nothing to compare Him too. Even by the word "God" (or Theos, or Deus, or Elohim, or any other word used in human language) we are really only reaching approximation. There are many things which have been called god/gods/divine but which God is nothing like and cannot be compared, the false gods of various polytheistic traditions for example. But God is not a Zeus or an Odin, but only the only one rather than one of many: God is entirely and fundamentally other. Since He exists beyond and outside of the created universe there is simply nothing to compare Him to, there is nothing in our experience as creatures which we can use as a frame of reference. God, therefore, remains ultimately, fundamentally, and wholly alien; and yet He is, as St. Paul says, "not far from any of us", "for in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (but even here, Paul is quoting a Pagan poet in order to make a point in address to Pagans)--and God has made Himself known, and come down to us, and met us in Jesus Christ: God has become man.

So, we can say "God is God", and no more; and even here we must be humble, for even this is approximation, for God is beyond and far more than whatever is conceived and imagined by the word "God".

-CryptoLutheran

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With the feast day of St Patrick of Hibernia tomorrow, thought it appropriate quote him from his confession:

This is because there is no other God, nor will there ever be, nor was there ever, except God the Father. He is the one who was not begotten, the one without a beginning, the one from whom all beginnings come, the one who holds all things in being – this is our teaching. And his son, Jesus Christ, whom we testify has always been, since before the beginning of this age, with the father in a spiritual way. He was begotten in an indescribable way before every beginning. Everything we can see, and everything beyond our sight, was made through him. He became a human being; and, having overcome death, was welcomed to the heavens to the Father. The Father gave him all power over every being, both heavenly and earthly and beneath the earth. Let every tongue confess that Jesus Christ, in whom we believe and whom we await to come back to us in the near future, is Lord and God[Nota]. He is judge of the living and of the dead[Nota]; he rewards every person according to their deeds[Nota]. He has generously poured on us the Holy Spirit[Nota], the gift and promise of immortality, who makes believers and those who listen to be children of God and co-heirs with Christ[Nota]. This is the one we acknowledge and adore – one God in a trinity of the sacred name. ---St Patrick

Confession | St. Patrick’s Confessio

TheoryofForms said:

Christians often say "You cannot hope to explain the nature of God." when a belief doesn't add up. Is this in itself a valid belief? I thought with Christ as our mediator, there were no limits.

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We can know something about the nature of God in the revelation of the Father in the life lived by the Son. To have seen Jesus was to have seen the Father. We have something of his God revealing life in the gospels.

The God revealed in the life of the Son was much greater than the dim view of a God made largely in the image of man in the Old Testament narratives. In the gospel of Jesus he had asked us to let go of our old ideas and start out fresh like children in our trust of him and in our quest of God within our hearts. We are ALL actually children of God, we have a deity as a Father.

CrystalDragon said:

If God is not the author of confusion, then why is there a lot of confusion with the Bible and what it means and people saying God wants contradictory things? (One person discerning God says to do X and another claiming God says to do Y)

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There is actually no confusion in The Bible.

CrystalDragon said:

If God is not the author of confusion, then why is there a lot of confusion with the Bible and what it means and people saying God wants contradictory things? (One person discerning God says to do X and another claiming God says to do Y)

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Since God is not the author of confusion, God's Word has no confusion. In the day of visitation, illumination follows. This very serious time in ones life is when the scales are removed from the eyes and clarity of God's Word occurs. This subject isn't debatable. This subject is very discreet in that one is either 100% in Christ or 100% out of Christ. Perhaps reading the entire story surrounding Numbers 16:29 and the Word "visitation" might be illuminating.


Eph.4 Verses 5 to 6

1. 
   [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
   [6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

lsume said:

There is actually no confusion in The Bible.


Since God is not the author of confusion, God's Word has no confusion. In the day of visitation, illumination follows. This very serious time in ones life is when the scales are removed from the eyes and clarity of God's Word occurs. This subject isn't debatable. This subject is very discreet in that one is either 100% in Christ or 100% out of Christ. Perhaps reading the entire story surrounding Numbers 16:29 and the Word "visitation" might be illuminating.


Eph.4 Verses 5 to 6

1. 
   [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
   [6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

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What about how each Gospel writer reported Jesus saying different last words on the cross? That's just one example, I could cite more.

TheoryofForms said:

Christians often say "You cannot hope to explain the nature of God." when a belief doesn't add up. Is this in itself a valid belief? I thought with Christ as our mediator, there were no limits.

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i think it depends on what we are talking about, for example there would be no need to go into the exact details on how the entire universe was created. it would be an endless investigation for every detail. but when it comes to our beliefs and how we should live than it is definitely important that we get to the bottom of it. so i think it can be crucial that we not only follow his word but have a more direct relationship with him. “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." (esv). so we should always keep seeking otherwise we will not know and we can be missing something that will bring us closer to god. i pray for you that whatever needs to reveal itself in truth will be given to you as you seek, in the name of Jesus. Amen.

CrystalDragon said:

What about how each Gospel writer reported Jesus saying different last words on the cross? That's just one example, I could cite more.

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CD, you are correct, the Bible is full of confusion and contradictions because it was written and rewritten by holy men, some more holy than others. They had faith, they speculated, they wrote pseudo-biographical narratives intended for instruction. Later generations of religious leaders declared the books to be divinely inspired.

CrystalDragon said:

What about how each Gospel writer reported Jesus saying different last words on the cross? That's just one example, I could cite more.

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That doesn't seem to be totally correct. The gospels of Matthew and Mark record the same last words.

TheoryofForms said:

That's like saying a book is wrong because it had a tear in it.

She still made good points.

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Even if the gospels did have different last words, it doesnt mean that its in error.

W2L said:

Even if the gospels did have different last words, it doesnt mean that its in error.

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Would you like me to give more examples?

TheoryofForms said:

Christians often say "You cannot hope to explain the nature of God." when a belief doesn't add up. Is this in itself a valid belief? I thought with Christ as our mediator, there were no limits.

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If you can't find someone to answer your questions, like I couldn't here's a place to look.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.

CrystalDragon said:

Would you like me to give more examples?

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If Luke and John recorded different words, it doesnt mean one of them are wrong, it just means they recorded different parts of the last words spoken by Christ.

W2L said:

If Luke and John recorded different words, it doesnt mean one of them are wrong, it just means they recorded different parts of the last words spoken by Christ.

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So you're saying that Jesus said all those different sentences one right after the other? After each one in the Gospels it says "With those words, he breathed his last" (or something similar). He can't have "breathed his last" four times.

CrystalDragon said:

So you're saying that Jesus said all those different sentences one right after the other? After each one in the Gospels it says "With those words, he breathed his last" (or something similar). He can't have "breathed his last" four times.

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Yes, its possible. Mathew and Mark say the same thing, John doesn't record any words at all, but says he "cried out" and that's not contradiction, its just not as detailed as Matthew and Mark. I never did like Lukes version of things, his Gospel seems sloppy to me.

W2L said:

Yes, its possible. Mathew and Mark say the same thing, John doesn't record any words at all, but says he "cried out" and that's not contradiction, its just not as detailed as Matthew and Mark. I never did like Lukes version of things, his Gospel seems sloppy to me.

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Well it was written decades after the other Gospels, so that could be why.

There are some other "confusions and contradictions" though...

CrystalDragon said:

There are some other "confusions and contradictions" though...

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Such as?

W2L said:

Such as?

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God commanded mankind to be fruitful and multiply, but Leviticus 12:6-7 says that after childbirth the woman needs to make a sin offering: And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or dove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her.


Paul says that marriage should be between one man and one woman, but David and Abraham had multiple wives, and David even had concubinee, which contradicts the thought of no sex between the unmarried.


God is said to be omniscient but he didn't seem to know Abraham feared him until she was willing to sacrifice Issac. (Genesis 22:12)


God is said to punish people for the sins of others (Exodus 20:5, Numbers 14:18, 2 Samuel 24:1-15, 1 Kings 21:29, not to mention Romans 5:9-19 saying that everyone is punished for what Adam did). Yet in another passages it only says he punished people for what they themselves do (Deteronomy 24:6, 2 Kings 14:6, Jeremiah 31:29-30, Ezekiel 18:20).

God seems to approve of slavery in some passages (Genesis 16:8-9, Genesis 17:12-13, Joshua 9:23-27, Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:20-21) but not in others.

I meant to post more but I accidentally clicked to post this. I can post more in another post.

CrystalDragon said:

God commanded mankind to be fruitful and multiply, but Leviticus 12:6-7 says that after childbirth the woman needs to make a sin offering: And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or dove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her.


Paul says that marriage should be between one man and one woman, but David and Abraham had multiple wives, and David even had concubinee, which contradicts the thought of no sex between the unmarried.


God is said to be omniscient but he didn't seem to know Abraham feared him until she was willing to sacrifice Issac. (Genesis 22:12)


God is said to punish people for the sins of others (Exodus 20:5, Numbers 14:18, 2 Samuel 24:1-15, 1 Kings 21:29, not to mention Romans 5:9-19 saying that everyone is punished for what Adam did). Yet in another passages it only says he punished people for what they themselves do (Deteronomy 24:6, 2 Kings 14:6, Jeremiah 31:29-30, Ezekiel 18:20).

God seems to approve of slavery in some passages (Genesis 16:8-9, Genesis 17:12-13, Joshua 9:23-27, Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:20-21) but not in others.

I meant to post more but I accidentally clicked to post this. I can post more in another post.

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Im not seeing the contradiction here. Visiting the fathers iniquity upon the children isn't the same as handing out a death penalty. These scriptures dont necessarily contradict each other

As far as slavery goes, you are quoting very old scripture, the world was much different back then. Some people sold themselves into servitude to pay debts, or just to have a roof over their head and food in their stomach. There wasn unemployment benefits, nor welfare back then.