One of Trump's best plans could be derailed...by republicans

Vylo · Mar 12, 2017

While he may have exaggerated, one of Trump's big talking points was broken roads and failing bridges. I've been driving all over this nation in the last few years, and while Obama was fixing much of it, it wasn't enough. When both Trump and Clinton promised money to fix the infrastructure of the country I was pleased, but Trump has the misfortune of having a tightwad group of republicans in charge.

This is one area where spending should be approved. It is good for country and the economy. While I hate Trump with the power of a thousand suns, I would rather see him seen in a good light for having pushed through infrastructure, than see him seen as weak for having not been able to. He must not do it through tax credits or some other shady ways which may let companies pocket the cash and run away, but by outright funding the construction. Ironically, he would have a lot of support with a democrat congress, but with Ryan and Co. in charge, he may face headwinds on such an effort. Heaven forbid we spend money on some of our most important communal assets. I hope Trump pushes forward with this promise, one great one, instead of needless bans on travel, instead of destroying our environment, instead of eroding our judicial system. I hope his main focus becomes this, and if he is wise it will be, for it will win over not just his base, but moderates and some liberals as well, because we all use our roads, rails, and planes. Investing in this is critical, and a failure to press forward on this would be a betrayal so great that none should forget it. Trump should let that fall on the old GOP guard and not his.

Goonie · Mar 12, 2017

Vylo said:
While he may have exaggerated, one of Trump's big talking points was broken roads and failing bridges. I've been driving all over this nation in the last few years, and while Obama was fixing much of it, it wasn't enough. When both Trump and Clinton promised money to fix the infrastructure of the country I was pleased, but Trump has the misfortune of having a tightwad group of republicans in charge.

This is one area where spending should be approved. It is good for country and the economy. While I hate Trump with the power of a thousand suns, I would rather see him seen in a good light for having pushed through infrastructure, than see him seen as weak for having not been able to. He must not do it through tax credits or some other shady ways which may let companies pocket the cash and run away, but by outright funding the construction. Ironically, he would have a lot of support with a democrat congress, but with Ryan and Co. in charge, he may face headwinds on such an effort. Heaven forbid we spend money on some of our most important communal assets. I hope Trump pushes forward with this promise, one great one, instead of needless bans on travel, instead of destroying our environment, instead of eroding our judicial system. I hope his main focus becomes this, and if he is wise it will be, for it will win over not just his base, but moderates and some liberals as well, because we all use our roads, rails, and planes. Investing in this is critical, and a failure to press forward on this would be a betrayal so great that none should forget it. Trump should let that fall on the old GOP guard and not his.

My suspicion is that he'll do infrastructure spending through PFIs, and if you want to benefit from those improved roads etc. You'll have to pay for it through tolls etc.

Radrook · Mar 12, 2017

Vylo said:
While he may have exaggerated, one of Trump's big talking points was broken roads and failing bridges. I've been driving all over this nation in the last few years, and while Obama was fixing much of it, it wasn't enough. When both Trump and Clinton promised money to fix the infrastructure of the country I was pleased, but Trump has the misfortune of having a tightwad group of republicans in charge.

This is one area where spending should be approved. It is good for country and the economy. While I hate Trump with the power of a thousand suns, I would rather see him seen in a good light for having pushed through infrastructure, than see him seen as weak for having not been able to. He must not do it through tax credits or some other shady ways which may let companies pocket the cash and run away, but by outright funding the construction. Ironically, he would have a lot of support with a democrat congress, but with Ryan and Co. in charge, he may face headwinds on such an effort. Heaven forbid we spend money on some of our most important communal assets. I hope Trump pushes forward with this promise, one great one, instead of needless bans on travel, instead of destroying our environment, instead of eroding our judicial system. I hope his main focus becomes this, and if he is wise it will be, for it will win over not just his base, but moderates and some liberals as well, because we all use our roads, rails, and planes. Investing in this is critical, and a failure to press forward on this would be a betrayal so great that none should forget it. Trump should let that fall on the old GOP guard and not his.

This reminds me of how every single time that our car hit a deep pothole my father would immediately hurl accusations at the city mayor for being a tightwad. How valid those accusations were I didn't know and still don't. I just took it for granted that my dad had to know what he was talking about. After all, why get all riled up against someone if there was no reason to? But indeed those potholes were bad. One moment we were cruising along peacefully and suddenly the front wheel would slam down with a rattling thud as if struck by a sledgehammer followed by the rear wheel.

Whereupon my dad would vehemently wish that the mayor be struck by lightning!

Which in Spanish went like this:

"Mal rayo lo parta!" Which literally translates into.

"May an evil lightning bolt split him!"

Hugh Joseph Addonizio - Wikipedia

Of course that's not the same as a bridge finally giving way. But it certainly is a policy that sooner or later leads to such things.
States with the most dangerous bridges

grasping the after wind · Mar 12, 2017

Vylo said:
Obama was fixing much of it

Those not so shovel ready projects? Where the money ended up in the pockets of politically connected union members and bureaucrats? Or did you see Barack working on the road crews?

Vylo · Mar 12, 2017

grasping the after wind said:
Those not so shovel ready projects? Where the money ended up in the pockets of politically connected union members and bureaucrats? Or did you see Barack working on the road crews?

I saw a huge number of road projects where I had seen few before on interstates. Later in my travels most of the interstates were in good condition. In my state bridges were fixed in mass. Some other states.... not as much. Much more money could have been spent here.

Sandy Zalecki · Mar 12, 2017

Everything we hear and read is suspicious. So I'm not sure if this is the truth, but I've heard he wants to construct a bunch of toll roads. I don't see how that's good for the American people.

Goonie · Mar 12, 2017

Sandy Zalecki said:
Everything we hear and read is suspicious. So I'm not sure if this is the truth, but I've heard he wants to construct a bunch of toll roads. I don't see how that's good for the American people.

Remember for mr Trump, the American people consists solely of business owners.

Vylo · Mar 12, 2017

Sandy Zalecki said:
Everything we hear and read is suspicious. So I'm not sure if this is the truth, but I've heard he wants to construct a bunch of toll roads. I don't see how that's good for the American people.

toll roads are wasteful and needless. We have gas taxes for a reason.

joshua 1 9 · Mar 12, 2017

Vylo said:
While he may have exaggerated, one of Trump's big talking points was broken roads and failing bridges. I've been driving all over this nation in the last few years, and while Obama was fixing much of it, it wasn't enough. When both Trump and Clinton promised money to fix the infrastructure of the country I was pleased, but Trump has the misfortune of having a tightwad group of republicans in charge.

This is one area where spending should be approved. It is good for country and the economy. While I hate Trump with the power of a thousand suns, I would rather see him seen in a good light for having pushed through infrastructure, than see him seen as weak for having not been able to. He must not do it through tax credits or some other shady ways which may let companies pocket the cash and run away, but by outright funding the construction. Ironically, he would have a lot of support with a democrat congress, but with Ryan and Co. in charge, he may face headwinds on such an effort. Heaven forbid we spend money on some of our most important communal assets. I hope Trump pushes forward with this promise, one great one, instead of needless bans on travel, instead of destroying our environment, instead of eroding our judicial system. I hope his main focus becomes this, and if he is wise it will be, for it will win over not just his base, but moderates and some liberals as well, because we all use our roads, rails, and planes. Investing in this is critical, and a failure to press forward on this would be a betrayal so great that none should forget it. Trump should let that fall on the old GOP guard and not his.

The money to repair the roads is suppose to come from the gasoline tax and is more a state issue then a federal issue. If the federal government wants to help out that is fine, but where are they going to get the money from? Right now we are 20 trillion dollars in debt and Obama printed money and created hyper inflation when he could not borrow anymore money. I understand that the economy is going to be a lot better under Trump and that the Feds will raise money though tariffs that will help to keep jobs here in America. Still it is going to take time to produce this money and we really do not need to be going further into debt.

Of course the stock market is going gang busters because the industry they plan to build in this country is going to need money so they are going to have to go to the stock market to get the money to build all of those new factories. If Trump can get his hands on money he will build and build. He has always been fully leveraged out and looking for more investment money to work with. I do not think he actually owns anything of any substance himself. People with money invest in him. People that he hates but still they are his bread and butter. Right now he is one hot commodity or hot tamale as some would say. So there are people all over the world wanting to make a deal with Trump and invest in making American Great again.

Drekkan85 · Mar 12, 2017

Look a P3 project can be incredibly valuable. If there's a project that's borderline profitability, or borderline public utility, it makes sense to leverage the private sector with public financing and plans.

But if you looked at Trump's plan most of his $1T in "Infrastructure Spending" was in the form of tax expenditures. Tax expenditures are awful, most notably because they tend to incentivize people to do things they'd do normally. The infrastructure projects tax breaks finance would likely get done even if it was more of a traditional P3 structure and the feds simply allowed the private industry to step in, do the work, and reap a benefit (through tolls or other arrangements).

The problem is that a lot of critical infrastructure in places that desperately need it either:

1) Isn't amenable to tolling/monetization for political reasons (think city roads in New York or DC); or
2) Isn't amenable to monetization because it simply will never be profitable (think interstates/bridges in rural America).

That's where you need an actual infrastructure spend. Unfortunately there's no real detailed planning on doing that kind of infrastructure work.

miamited · Mar 12, 2017

Hi guys,

Well, for my money, I'd like to see just one sort of payment arrangement. Let's either pay for our roads through tolls or pay for our roads through a gas tax. As I understand it, when you have various ways of collecting monies for such things, you wind up wasting a lot of it because you also build two or more departments with overlapping employees who do pretty much the same thing to get the money from point A to point B.

Gas taxes are becoming less fair as we have more and more EV's on the road. If we're going to go to tolls, then I think we should have a national system. Presently, tolls are more roadway specific as far as what they're collected to pay for. Ultimately, I think the best system would be a mileage tax that each one files with their federal tax return. But, that will require another system to be built and, of course, people will balk at paying but that's only natural.

I'd just like to see one system of collection for all roadway projects that is fair and not too much inconvenience.

God bless you all,
In Christ, ted

Vylo · Mar 12, 2017

Drekkan85 said:
Look a P3 project can be incredibly valuable. If there's a project that's borderline profitability, or borderline public utility, it makes sense to leverage the private sector with public financing and plans.

But if you looked at Trump's plan most of his $1T in "Infrastructure Spending" was in the form of tax expenditures. Tax expenditures are awful, most notably because they tend to incentivize people to do things they'd do normally. The infrastructure projects tax breaks finance would likely get done even if it was more of a traditional P3 structure and the feds simply allowed the private industry to step in, do the work, and reap a benefit (through tolls or other arrangements).

The problem is that a lot of critical infrastructure in places that desperately need it either:

1) Isn't amenable to tolling/monetization for political reasons (think city roads in New York or DC); or
2) Isn't amenable to monetization because it simply will never be profitable (think interstates/bridges in rural America).

That's where you need an actual infrastructure spend. Unfortunately there's no real detailed planning on doing that kind of infrastructure work.

I agree with what you are saying in much of this post. There needs to be real spending on this infrastructure, not just tax incentives.

variant · Mar 12, 2017

Vylo said:
toll roads are wasteful and needless. We have gas taxes for a reason.

In my state they are a also a gigantic and needless bureaucracy.

miamited · Mar 12, 2017

Vylo said:
toll roads are wasteful and needless. We have gas taxes for a reason.

Hi vylo,

Yes, but...

The pure gas tax system is not going to make very much money for the government when 50% of vehicles are EV or hybrid.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Vylo · Mar 12, 2017

miamited said:
Hi vylo,

Yes, but...

The pure gas tax system is not going to make very much money for the government when 50% of vehicles are EV or hybrid.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

taxes on electricity can fill that gap. right now they are using registration fees on EVs

LoAmmi · Mar 12, 2017

Sandy Zalecki said:
Everything we hear and read is suspicious. So I'm not sure if this is the truth, but I've heard he wants to construct a bunch of toll roads. I don't see how that's good for the American people.

Tolls might fund infrastructure work, U.S. transportation secretary says

I saw the video of this interaction.

Make Private Infrastructure Corporations Richer Again

#MPICRA!

miamited · Mar 12, 2017

Vylo said:
taxes on electricity can fill that gap. right now they are using registration fees on EVs

Hi vylo,

Do you believe that a one time registration fee makes up for 100,000 miles of revenue that others pay as they fill up their fuel tanks? How do we separate the electricity one uses to operate their vehicle and the electricity used to run a home? Are any of the electricity taxes currently being given over to any state departments of transportation?

The issue here is who pays, or rather how we pay, for our roads, bridges and other transportation infrastructure. Fuel taxes were always the best and most equitable way to do that when all vehicles used gas. We even wanted to be so fair about it that most states made it legal to not charge such taxes on diesel fuel that was purchased for farm equipment or other non-road vehicle use.

What I'm discussing here is how we now keep that type of equitable system of paying for roads and infrastructure even though all vehicles that use the roadways are not using the fuel through which we tax and pay for those roads. Personally, I don't like a toll system either. It causes back ups at toll booths and for the RFID systems it doesn't work well for people visiting from out of the area who bring their own vehicles and don't have the state RFID equipment. Plus, tolls are only applied on certain roads. A delivery truck can operate all day long and go through 3 tanks of fuel and never get on a toll road in its full day of travel.

So, what would be a reasonably equitable way of individuals paying their fair share of the costs of building and maintaining the roadways and transportation infrastructure?

We could get rid of all specific road taxes and tolls and just pay for all of the roadways and infrastructure from tax revenue taken from the standard federal or state taxes and just raise everyone's individual federal and state tax bill by a few hundred dollars. The problem with that system is that a little old lady who only makes a single trip to the grocery store once a week would pay the same towards our roadways as the traveling salesman who may drive tens of thousands of miles throughout the year. We could come up with ways, again through RFID or form reporting, to monitor and record every vehicles mileage and charge, say a nickel/mile on a separate line of the federal and state tax returns. That line item revenue then put into the pot to pay for roadways and infrastructure. That would certainly be equitable, but the logistics is a nightmare. How do you assure that the form reporting is accurate and how do you get all vehicles equipped with RFID odometers.

I live in South Carolina which is a state with some of the lowest gas taxes in the country. Our roads are evidence that less money means less service.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

LoAmmi · Mar 12, 2017

miamited said:
We could get rid of all specific road taxes and tolls and just pay for all of the roadways and infrastructure from tax revenue taken from the standard federal or state taxes and just raise everyone's individual federal and state tax bill by a few hundred dollars. The problem with that system is that a little old lady who only makes a single trip to the grocery store once a week would pay the same towards our roadways as the traveling salesman who may drive tens of thousands of miles throughout the year. We could come up with ways, again through RFID or form reporting, to monitor and record every vehicles mileage and charge, say a nickel/mile on a separate line of the federal and state tax returns. That line item revenue then put into the pot to pay for roadways and infrastructure. That would certainly be equitable, but the logistics is a nightmare. How do you assure that the form reporting is accurate and how do you get all vehicles equipped with RFID odometers.

I'm sure that that little old lady benefits from my tax dollars in ways I am not eligible for at this time in my life. Also, if she didn't receive a lot of income, she'd not be on the hook for much in the way of taxes anyway.

Vylo · Mar 12, 2017

miamited said:
Hi vylo,

Do you believe that a one time registration fee makes up for 100,000 miles of revenue that others pay as they fill up their fuel tanks? How do we separate the electricity one uses to operate their vehicle and the electricity used to run a home? Are any of the electricity taxes currently being given over to any state departments of transportation?

The issue here is who pays, or rather how we pay, for our roads, bridges and other transportation infrastructure. Fuel taxes were always the best and most equitable way to do that when all vehicles used gas. We even wanted to be so fair about it that most states made it legal to not charge such taxes on diesel fuel that was purchased for farm equipment or other non-road vehicle use.

What I'm discussing here is how we now keep that type of equitable system of paying for roads and infrastructure even though all vehicles that use the roadways are not using the fuel through which we tax and pay for those roads. Personally, I don't like a toll system either. It causes back ups at toll booths and for the RFID systems it doesn't work well for people visiting from out of the area who bring their own vehicles and don't have the state RFID equipment. Plus, tolls are only applied on certain roads. A delivery truck can operate all day long and go through 3 tanks of fuel and never get on a toll road in its full day of travel.

So, what would be a reasonably equitable way of individuals paying their fair share of the costs of building and maintaining the roadways and transportation infrastructure?

We could get rid of all specific road taxes and tolls and just pay for all of the roadways and infrastructure from tax revenue taken from the standard federal or state taxes and just raise everyone's individual federal and state tax bill by a few hundred dollars. The problem with that system is that a little old lady who only makes a single trip to the grocery store once a week would pay the same towards our roadways as the traveling salesman who may drive tens of thousands of miles throughout the year. We could come up with ways, again through RFID or form reporting, to monitor and record every vehicles mileage and charge, say a nickel/mile on a separate line of the federal and state tax returns. That line item revenue then put into the pot to pay for roadways and infrastructure. That would certainly be equitable, but the logistics is a nightmare. How do you assure that the form reporting is accurate and how do you get all vehicles equipped with RFID odometers.

I live in South Carolina which is a state with some of the lowest gas taxes in the country. Our roads are evidence that less money means less service.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Registration is not one time. It must be renewed regularly. No I don't think it is sufficient, but like I said, you simply tax the fuel, whether it is gas, electricity, hydrogen, or kittens.

These fuel taxes would be the simplest and one of the most fair systems, as the roads and bridges would always be available for use.

trunks2k · Mar 12, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
The money to repair the roads is suppose to come from the gasoline tax and is more a state issue then a federal issue. If the federal government wants to help out that is fine, but where are they going to get the money from? Right now we are 20 trillion dollars in debt and Obama printed money and created hyper inflation when he could not borrow anymore money.

What hyper inflation? The inflation rate under obama was historically on the low end.

Historic inflation United States – historic CPI inflation United States

One of Trump's best plans could be derailed...by republicans

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