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Pope Galasius, in 495, issued a decree called Decretum de Libris Canonicis Ecclesiastics et Apocryphis which set forth the official writings of the church and those documents that were to be rejected.

Those writing which are to be rejected Gelasius signifies the following work: Liber qui apellatur Transitus, id est Assumptio Sanctae Mariae, Apocryphus (Pope Gelasius 1, Epistle 42, Migne Series, M.P.L. vol. 59, Col. 162).

This document defines the bodily assumption of Mary.

Pope Gelasius defines the belief in the bodily assumption of Mary as heretical. This was reinforced centuries later by Pope Hormisdas.

Yet in 1950, Pope Pius declares the doctrine of Mary's bodily assumption as the official position of Rome.
 
More claims...can anyone help me out here?

"Pope Gelasius explicitly condemns the authors as well as their writings and the teachings which they promote and all who follow them. And significantly, this entire decree and its condemnation was reaffirmed by Pope Hormisdas in the sixth century around A.D. 520. (Migne Vol. 62. Col. 537-542). These facts prove that the early Church viewed the assumption teaching, not as a legitimate expression of the pious belief of the faithful but as a heresy worthy of condemnation. There are those who question the authority of the so-called Gelasian decree on historical grounds saying that it is spuriously attributed to Gelasius. However, the Roman Catholic authorities Denzinger, Charles Joseph Hefele, W. A. Jurgens and the New Catholic Encyclopedia all affirm that the decree derives from Pope Gelasius, and Pope Nicholas I in a letter to the bishops of Gaul (c. 865 A.D.) officially quotes from this decree and attributes its authorship to Gelasius. (See Henry Denzinger, The Sources of Catholic Dogma (London: Herder,1954), pp. 66-69; W. A.Jurgens, TheFaith of theEarlyFathers, vol. I (Collegeville: Liturgical, 1970), p. 404; New CatholicEncyclopedia, vol. VII (Washington D.C.: Catholic University, 1967), p. 434; Charles Joseph Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1895), vol. IV, pp. 43-44). While the Gelasian decree may be questioned by some, the decree of Pope Hormisdas reaffirming the Gelasian decree in the early sixth century has not been questioned."

http://www.christiantruth.com/assumption.html
 
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Today at 02:40 PM SSPX said this in Post #3 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=705877#post705877)

By the 5th century the Assumption was already a feast in the Church. I think all you have here is the Pope declaring a certain work to not be part of the canon of Scripture. I don't think it was meant to be a declaration on the Assumption of Mary.

I thought Canon was already determined in the 300's? :scratch:
 
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nyj

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Today at 02:29 PM Reformationist said this in Post #6 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=708697#post708697)

Anyone got an update on this in light of CP's latest question?


Yes. The first Papal decree of this sort (making a judgetment on the canonicity of written works outside of the Old Testament) was made by Pope Damasus circa 380 AD. That Pope Gelasius made a similar decree circa 490 AD isn't too surprising. A similar decree was needed at the Council of Trent over a millenium later. Even over all those years, it is amazing to see that the Church doesn't contradict herself over what books should and shouldn't be included. All seven deuterocanonical books are including in both papal lists. Also, as it has been mentioned (I believe SSPX stated this) just because a book on the Assumption of Mary was rejected as being apocryphal doesn't mean that Pope Gelasius rejected the Assumption of Mary because at the time Gelasius made the decree, the Church was already celebrating her Assumption in the liturgy.
 
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chelcb

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1. The Assumption is not an arbitrary presumption; it follows from Mary's sinlessness. Since bodily decay results from sin (Ps 16:10), the absence of sin would allow for instant bodily resurrection at death. Mary, since she was sinless, was preserved from the three-fold curse of sin (Gen 3:16-19), as well as from a return to dust. The Assumption is not the Ascension. Mary is taken to heaven by the power of God, not her own power, as with Jesus. The Church Fathers refer to such passages as Ps 132:8 as indications of the Assumption. Biblical parallels very similar to the Assumption exist:

Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." {Cf. Gen 5:24}

2 Kings 2:1,11 ". . . the Lord would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind . . . And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, {there appeared} a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

Enoch and Elijah, according to Protestant commentaries, were taken bodily to heaven, exactly what the doctrine of the Assumption maintains with regard to Mary. Furthermore, OT saints were immediately resurrected after Jesus' Resurrection (Mt 27:52-3); Christians at the Second Coming are resurrected and meet Jesus in the air (along with the dead saints) - some Protestants regard this as the "Rapture" (1 Thess 4:15-17). Lastly, Paul describes an experience whereby he was "caught up to the third heaven," possibly "in the body." Such evidence does not establish the Assumption in and of itself, but it does make such a notion plausible and not at all unbiblical, as is so often charged by Protestants.

Again, Catholicism does not believe in sola Scriptura, or "Scripture Alone" as the ultimate source of Christian truth. This is the Protestant principle of authority, curiously not found in the Bible, which points to a Tradition larger than itself (1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 2 Tim 2:2).

2. Mary is again here a sign and type for every Christian. She anticipates our eventual bodily resurrection with her Assumption, just as she prefigures our redemption from sin by her Immaculate Conception.

3.

Can we suppose that Abraham, or David, or Isaiah, or Ezekiel, should have been thus favoured [referring to the mass resurrection of Mt 27:52-3], and not God's own Mother? Was she not nearer to Him than the greatest of the Saints before her? Therefore we confidently say that our Lord, having preserved her from sin and the consequences of sin by His Passion, lost no time in pouring out the full merits of that Passion upon her body as well as her soul.
{John Henry Cardinal Newman, Meditations and Devotions, 1893}
 
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Reformationist

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If that response was to me I appreciate it chelcb. I do have some questions though.

You mentioned Psalms 132:8, and only 132:8, as a reference to Mary's assumption.

Psalm 132:8
Arise, O LORD, to Your resting place,
You and the ark of Your strength.

Is it your contention that "the ark of Your strength" is a reference to Mary?

Is that the only Scriptural basis for this belief then? I know you have your oral traditions but it would seem that something as paramount as this would be specifically mentioned, don't you think?

Thanks again,
God bless
 
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edward

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Ref,

I believe that the Apostles must have taught this to the early church. I can't imagine so many of Christ's churches hanging onto this belief for 2000 years if it wasn't spread by the Apostles so widely. Both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches hold onto these traditons. We claim these traditions were handed down to us from the Apostles themselves. Also, since many many people of that time did not know how to read or write, oral teachings were commonplace. It was important at that time to repeat the teachings verbatum, and if you made the slightest mistake, you were immediately rebuked and corrected. We also don't believe that the early Christian churches would fabricate these traditions. What reason would they have to do that? To corrupt the body of Christ? Mary being assumed into heaven only does one thing. It glorifies God.

Here are 2 writings of the early church for you to read. One is attributed to the teachings of John the Apostle, and the other to Joseph of Arimathaea. These are ancient documents (over 1500 years old!)

http://apoc.faithweb.com/acts/passmary.htm

http://apoc.faithweb.com/acts/deathmry.htm

Edward
 
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Reformationist

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Today at 09:41 PM edward said this in Post #12 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=709822#post709822)

We also don't believe that the early Christian churches would fabricate these traditions. What reason would they have to do that? To corrupt the body of Christ? Mary being assumed into heaven only does one thing. It glorifies God.

Let me be clear that I am not saying that it isn't true. I don't know. I was just wondering about the Scriptural support of such a momentous, uplifting, encouraging, edifying belief. Is there more than just Psalms 132:8 that this belief is based on?

Here are 2 writings of the early church for you to read. One is attributed to the teachings of John the Apostle, and the other to Joseph of Arimathaea. These are ancient documents (over 1500 years old!)

http://apoc.faithweb.com/acts/passmary.htm

http://apoc.faithweb.com/acts/deathmry.htm

Edward

Thanks for the info Edward. I have to ask though, are these documents actually held as authoritative? Who wrote them? You said that they are attributed to the teaching of John the Apostle and Joseph of Arimathaea. Does that mean they are believed to have written them?

Thanks,
God bless
 
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chelcb

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Revelation

1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.
3
Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems.
4
Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth.
5
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne.
6
The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days.
7
Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back,
8
but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9
The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it.
10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed. For the accuser of our brothers is cast out, who accuses them before our God day and night.
11
They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death.
12
Therefore, rejoice, you heavens, and you who dwell in them. But woe to you, earth and sea, for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, for he knows he has but a short time."
13
When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14
But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year.
15
The serpent, however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current.
16
But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth.
17
Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus. (18) It took its position on the sand of the sea.
 
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edward

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Let me be clear that I am not saying that it isn't true. I don't know. I was just wondering about the Scriptural support of such a momentous, uplifting, encouraging, edifying belief. Is there more than just Psalms 132:8 that this belief is based on?

I look at Revelation 12, Ref, which immediately follows 11:19 referring to the ark of his covenant. When the ark of God's covenant is seen, another great sign is seen IN HEAVEN. A woman clothed with the sun. That is why we also say that Mary, bearing God in her womb, is the ark of the New Covenant.

Thanks for the info Edward. I have to ask though, are these documents actually held as authoritative? Who wrote them? You said that they are attributed to the teaching of John the Apostle and Joseph of Arimathaea. Does that mean they are believed to have written them?


I don't know who wrote them. I do believe that John and Joseph were the authors. An author in the ancient world only meant that they were the authority whose teachings the writings were based upon. I take them as evidence that the church has held to the same beliefs since the time of the Apostles.

God Bless you too, Ref

Edward
 
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Today at 10:24 PM chelcb said this in Post #14

Revelation 

A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 

She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. 

She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. 

The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days. 
 
When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. 

The serpent, however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. 

But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. 

Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus. (18) It took its position on the sand of the sea.

The Catholic teaching is that the "woman" spoken of in these verses is Mary?

God bless
 
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Theresa

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It's firstly Mary, secondly Israel. Mary is known as a prototype of the Church, as Mother of the Church, as NT Ark of the Covenant, as the New Eve, as the Queen Mother. It is very deep and it's awesome to find out how they all connenct.

***That is just what I've come to understand. I don't know if the Church has dogmatically defined this verse to mean exactly that, however, we do see this passage as useful in the understanding of Mary.

***Me and Js got into this point before. I still don't have all the answers as to Daughter of Zion/Church/ Mary but here's an interesting commentary.

"Parallel Between Daniel 9 and Luke 1&2

He shows how the following correlates. In Luke 1 and 2 we have the
annunciation by Gabriel to Zechariah and six months later the
annunciation by Gabriel to Mary, then nine months later Jesus is born,
and thirty days later he is presented in the temple. You add up 180
days in the six months, 270 days in the nine months and the 40 days in
the presentation and it adds up to 490, which is a very rare number
that is found in one of the most memorable prophecies of the Old
Testament, Daniel 9. Stanley suggests that Luke is once again giving a
surplus value, a surplus meaning to those who are really willing to
dig deep into the text to see all of the inspired meanings behind what
God has done to inaugurate the New Covenant salvation in Christ and in
his Blessed Mother.

This is the Ark of the Covenant. Now let's go back and conclude
our time in Revelation 11 and 12. We have in Mary the Ark of the
Covenant. We have in Mary the true tabernacle. We have in Mary a
figure for the New Jerusalem because at the end of Revelation, how is
the New Jerusalem described? As being a bride that is pure and yet
also being a mother of God's children. Well, how is it that you could
be at the same time virginally pure and maternally fruitful?
It seems
impossible for human nature, but not for Mary, not only in mothering
Jesus, but in John 19 at the cross and also in Revelation 12 where we
read at the very end of the chapter, verse 17, we discover that Mary
becomes by grace the mother of all of God's children.


It says in 17, "And the dragon was enraged at the woman and went
off to make war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep the
commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus." We have, I
believe, in John's vision something that he must have pondered for
days, weeks and perhaps months and years. Here is the only apostle who
had the courage in his youth, perhaps, not to run away. Maybe if Peter
had stood at the foot of the cross, he would have been entrusted with
Mary, maybe James. But, no, in this case it ended up being John, the
only disciple who had courage enough to stand there at the foot of the
cross to comfort and to stand by Mary and to be with our Lord in his
agony.


And for it, he was rewarded with the Blessed Virgin Mary as his
own mother; "Behold your son," and the beloved disciple, "Behold your
mother." John recognizes two things. He recognizes that he himself as
the beloved disciple is merely a symbol of all of Christ's disciples
who are equally beloved. But he also recognized, I'll bet, as he took
Mary to his own home that very hour, it says in John 19, I mean, can
you imagine living with Mary after the crucifixion, after the
resurrection after the ascension? She is now your mother. She is
living in your home. What do you think you would do?

I don't know about you, but, you know, do you think you'd just
basically sit there in kind of monastic solitude and quietude? "Please
pass the butter, milk. Let's pray. Have a good day?" No way. What
would you do? I'll bet it's something like I would do. You'd say,
"What was he like when he was just two? You know, when you lost him
for three days, how did Joseph respond? What was it like teaching him
how to pray? When you first heard him say, 'Our Father,' what was
that like? What did he teach you about loving neighbors who cannot
love others?"

I mean you'd just want to tap into the immeasurable depths of her
spiritual experiences with the second person of the Godhead, her
creator, her firstborn boy.
And she's now your stepmother and you're
caring for her for days, weeks, months and years, pondering and
reflecting over what she has pondered and reflected on. You'd talk
about infinite oceans of in-depth wisdom. Our Lady is seat of wisdom,
sedae sapientia. John is the one who is the most spiritual of all the
apostles. I mean he was one of the sons of thunder and he internalized
all that thunder so that there would be a kind of thunderous
contemplative insight that would illuminate his soul to see down to
the depths of the real significance of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and
the real significance of this New Covenant family that Christ
instituted with his own spirit and with his own body and blood. And
he's the one who for us is putting it all together.

He doesn't just spell it out like you might read in the front page
of the New York Times, he's putting it there, though, for people who
want to roll up their sleeves and just jump in and really work through
it. He's putting it there for those who keep the commandments and
their testimony to Jesus to read, to ponder, to reread, to pray
through and then to rejoice, because she is the Ark of the Covenant.
She is the power of David.

Earlier this morning I got into another motif that we don't even
have time to develop, the Queen Mother. In the Old Testament nation of
Israel when they had a kingdom, for hundreds of years, the Son of
David always had enthroned at his right hand, the evidence suggests,
his Queen Mother. No wonder the early Jewish Christians had no
controversies about the emergence of Marian devotion. As soon as she
went to be with the Lord, and by the way, there are no gravesites for
Mary. I mean Peter's gravesite was venerated. A lot of other saints,
when they die, when martyrs are put to death, the spot where they are
killed or where they are buried becomes a place for pilgrimage and
veneration. No such place for Mary.


There are all kinds of stories that were kind of wild and fanciful
about how she was assumed and so on, but nowhere does there ever
emerge a story about where she died, where she was buried and where
her body decomposed or where people made pilgrimages to. That kind of
silence is loud, isn't it?
The early Church began to discover what the
Beloved Disciple must have just pondered for the rest of his life with
gratitude and with joy.

In Isaiah 62 we read in verse 11 about daughter Zion who is
vindicated and glorified by God, "for as a young man marries a virgin,
so shall your sons, daughter Zion, marry you." Think about that. Kind
of an odd image, isn't it? Daughter Zion is God's daughter. "As a
young man marries a virgin, so shall your sons marry you." I mean, you
talk about an Oedipus complex, what is going on here? "Your sons,
daughter Zion, marry you." The Blessed Virgin Mary is Christ's
daughter because he is her creator, but he creates her to be his
mother. But then, after he bestows his glory upon her and calls her to
himself and makes her the Queen Mother of all, he fashions the New
Jerusalem after her as the blueprint. She becomes the bride of Christ.

No wonder he calls her "woman." He can't decide. "Are you my
daughter? Are you my mother or are you my bride?" Praise the Lord!
This represents the answer of the Church to feminism, to radical
feminism. I mean let's face it, radical movements almost always
represent the unpaid bills of the Church, certain gaps, certain lacks
of emphases where we need to compensate, then we overcompensate and
over exaggerate or whatever, certain truths."

 

(Mary, Holy Mother-Scott Hahn)

http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/MARYARK.TXT


(end of Isaiah 61 and all of 62)

"For I, the LORD , love justice;
I hate robbery and iniquity.
In my faithfulness I will reward them
and make an everlasting covenant with them.
Their descendants will be known among the nations
and their offspring among the peoples.
All who see them will acknowledge
that they are a people the LORD has blessed."


I delight greatly in the LORD ; [reminds me of Mary's Magnificat-"my spirit
my soul rejoices in my God.       rejoices......."]
For he has clothed me with garments of salvation
and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness,
as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest,
and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

For as the soil makes the sprout come up
and a garden causes seeds to grow,
so the Sovereign LORD will make righteousness and praise
spring up before all nations.



Zion's New Name

For Zion's sake I will not keep silent,
for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet,
till her righteousness shines out like the dawn,
her salvation like a blazing torch.
The nations will see your righteousness,
and all kings your glory;

you will be called by a new name
that the mouth of the LORD will bestow.
You will be a crown of splendor in the LORD's hand,
a royal diadem in the hand of your God.

No longer will they call you Deserted,
or name your land Desolate.
But you will be called Hephzibah,
and your land Beulah ;
for the LORD will take delight in you,
and your land will be married.
As a young man marries a maiden, [virgin]
so will your sons marry you;
as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride,
so will your God rejoice over you.


I have posted watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem;
they will never be silent day or night.
You who call on the LORD ,
give yourselves no rest,
and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem
and makes her the praise of the earth.

The LORD has sworn by his right hand
and by his mighty arm:
"Never again will I give your grain
as food for your enemies,
and never again will foreigners drink the new wine
for which you have toiled;
but those who harvest it will eat it
and praise the LORD ,
and those who gather the grapes will drink it
in the courts of my sanctuary."

Pass through, pass through the gates!
Prepare the way for the people.
Build up, build up the highway!
Remove the stones.
Raise a banner for the nations.

The LORD has made proclamation
to the ends of the earth:
"Say to the Daughter of Zion,
'See, your Savior comes!
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.' "

They will be called the Holy People,
the Redeemed of the LORD ;
and you will be called Sought After,
the City No Longer Deserted.


-While I have no claim to know this whole passage, I think it is interesting.
 
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chelcb

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4 Even when I walk through a dark valley, I fear no harm for you are at my side; your rod and staff give me courage.

5 You set a table before me as my enemies watch; You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. 

6 Only goodness and love will pursue me all the days of my life; I will dwell in the house of the LORD for years to come.


Who do you think the staff is?

She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne
 
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