Being Likeminded

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Rom 15:5-6,

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:​

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

1Cor 1:10,

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

2Cor 13:11,

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.​

Phil 2:2

Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.​

1Pet 3:8,

Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous.​

So why are there thousands pf denominations, sects, and cults in the world? And I can't help but notice an inordinate number of rather contentious discussions on this and pretty much every other Christian forum on the internet.

I'm thinking the answer is found in Matthew. Jesus was talking to the religious leaders of the time.

Mat 15:3,

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Have our leaders fallen into the same trap? Have they failed in teaching all Christians to be of one mind?
 

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The question is, how what exactly is this "likemindedness" and "one mind" and how can this state be achieved? In my view the answer involves 4 of the most neglected spiritual principles in the NT:

rrob: Phil 2:2: "Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

(1) The question if what "likeminded" and "one mind" means in practice and how this state can be attained. The next verse offers a key in what may be the most overlooked spiritual teaching in the NT:

"Do nothing from selfish ambition and conceit, but in humility esteem others as better than yourselves (Phil. 2:3)."

rrobsr : Rom 15:5-6: "Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

(2) "Let love be genuine....Outdo one another in showing respect (Romans 12:9-10)." Thus, Christian love is not authentic unless a competition is set up to see who can outdo each other in showing each other respect. I find this principle both witty and profound.

So if I choose to perceive you from the perspective that in some ways you better than me and, with that perception, I make sure that I am treating you with more respect than you are treating me, then I am well on the path to becoming one mind with you.

(3) "One mind" also has a mystical meaning, the one mind of the corporate body of Christ: "If one member (body part) suffers, all member suffer together with it (1 Corinthians 12:26)." The key to understanding this text is a recognition that Paul is not discussing what should be the case, but rather what is actually the case. If I neglect a hurting Christian in my fellowship, then I pay an undetermined price in personal suffering for that neglect. Paul gives the example of Corinthian members who are sick, dying, and dead as result of their neglect of the poor during the service of Holy Communion (11: 18-22, 37-30).

(4) But realistically, most of us feel superior to the mentally limited and impaired in our church. In what sense can we possibly esteem them as better than ourselves. By recognizing this principle of corporate body life:
"God has so arranged the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior member (12:26)."

For example, I'm a member of a small prayer group that has been praying for a mentally ill, drug addicted young woman, who has been in and out of jail and mental hospitals and has been routinely exploited in drugs for sex arrangements in which she takes hard drugs instead of her medications. Our prayers for her had limited effect until we recruited David, a seriously bipolar Christian to our group, who also had been in and out of jail and mental hospitals. As soon as David began praying for her, she astoundingly volunteered to enter a year-long treatment program! The faith of this so-called "lesser member" was more effective than our own.
 
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Ken Rank

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Rom 15:5-6,

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:​

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

1Cor 1:10,

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

2Cor 13:11,

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.​

Phil 2:2

Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.​

1Pet 3:8,

Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous.​

So why are there thousands pf denominations, sects, and cults in the world? And I can't help but notice an inordinate number of rather contentious discussions on this and pretty much every other Christian forum on the internet.

I'm thinking the answer is found in Matthew. Jesus was talking to the religious leaders of the time.

Mat 15:3,

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Have our leaders fallen into the same trap? Have they failed in teaching all Christians to be of one mind?
As long as we have teachers and students we won't all agree on the same things at the same time. To the Hebrew in the first century, the idea of being "of one mind and one accord" was not as much everyone agreeing on every facet of doctrine, it was being able to work together to the glory of the Kingdom and the namesake of God despite our differences.
 
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rrobsr

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As long as we have teachers and students we won't all agree on the same things at the same time. To the Hebrew in the first century, the idea of being "of one mind and one accord" was not as much everyone agreeing on every facet of doctrine, it was being able to work together to the glory of the Kingdom and the namesake of God despite our differences.

I wouldn't place very much credence in what the first century Jews thought about God's word. They were the very victims of the traditions taught by the Pharisees. They knew very little of the scriptures. They didn't even recognize their saviour. In fact they killed him.

If words mean anything at all, then God wants us to be like minded which simply means thinking the same thing. Either water baptism or baptism in holy spirit, once saved always saved or we can lose salvation, speaking in tongues or not speaking in tongues, rapture or wrath. The list goes on and on.

If our leaders had been teaching the accuracy of God's word instead of denominational doctrine, the world would be a lot different. More like the world of the early first century when Peter's shadow would heal the sick. Instead we look to a Trump or a Clinton to solve our problems. How pitiful can the church get? How often do we read, "Well, I think this verse says such and such a thing" or, "to me this verse means..." Many churches actually encourage such behavior. Who cares what anbody thinks or feels about the things God says in his word? It's not what someone feels, but what God says that counts. We have to get back to the simplicity of God's word and stop making excuses.

God bless...
 
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I wouldn't place very much credence in what the first century Jews thought about God's word. They were the very victims of the traditions taught by the Pharisees. They knew very little of the scriptures. They didn't even recognize their saviour. In fact they killed him.

This is the mild anti-Semitic undertone in our culture that we are born into. The Jews did not kill Yeshua, and not until Justin Martyr (around 150AD) called the Jews, "Christ killers" did that idea even cross anyone's mind. Yes the Jewish ELITE were threatened by him, but if you think the Jews rejected Yeshua as a whole, you would be wrong. Acts 21:20 uses the phrases in English, "many thousands of Jews believed," but the word for "many thousands" is murias, which is the Greek word for 10,000 and it is in plural form. That means that no less than 20,000 Jews of the 80,000 in and around Jerusalem... saw Yeshua as messiah. That is not how we teach it, not how we treat it... but it is what the book of Acts states. As for them knowing very little of the Scriptures, I can let that pass because I realize that conclusion comes from the notion that all Jews rejected him, which simply is not true.

Lastly... the reason I said that the first century Jewish person would see "one mind and one accord as being one in function not form," is because it DOES MATTER. Who wrote that line? Paul... Paul was Jewish and so his understanding of that concept would have been retained in the phrase. The phrase was understood in that day in a certain way... we understand it today in a different way. Yeshua was Jewish, Paul, Peter, James... they were all Jewish. It matters in terms of context.
 
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rrobsr

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This is the mild anti-Semitic undertone in our culture that we are born into. The Jews did not kill Yeshua, and not until Justin Martyr (around 150AD) called the Jews, "Christ killers" did that idea even cross anyone's mind. Yes the Jewish ELITE were threatened by him, but if you think the Jews rejected Yeshua as a whole, you would be wrong. Acts 21:20 uses the phrases in English, "many thousands of Jews believed," but the word for "many thousands" is murias, which is the Greek word for 10,000 and it is in plural form. That means that no less than 20,000 Jews of the 80,000 in and around Jerusalem... saw Yeshua as messiah. That is not how we teach it, not how we treat it... but it is what the book of Acts states. As for them knowing very little of the Scriptures, I can let that pass because I realize that conclusion comes from the notion that all Jews rejected him, which simply is not true.

Lastly... the reason I said that the first century Jewish person would see "one mind and one accord as being one in function not form," is because it DOES MATTER. Who wrote that line? Paul... Paul was Jewish and so his understanding of that concept would have been retained in the phrase. The phrase was understood in that day in a certain way... we understand it today in a different way. Yeshua was Jewish, Paul, Peter, James... they were all Jewish. It matters in terms of context.

So we can't even be like minded on who killed Jesus? It's mind numbing.

I am in no way anti-Semitic, just pro-God's word. I do understand Romans 11. What you say in the book of Acts about the Jews believing is absolutely true, but that has does not negate the fact that earlier they had, in fact, killed Jesus. Again,why can't we just read what's written, say amen, and believe it?

Acts 2:22-23,
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye (Jews) have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 2:36,

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye (Jewes) have crucified, both Lord and Christ.​

Acts 3:14-15,

14 But ye (the Jews) denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.​

Acts 4:10,

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye (Jews) crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
It looks like the idea that the Jews killed Jesus was around well before Justin Martyr. Luke sure seemed to think so when God revealed the book of Acts to him. Otherwise, what do these verses mean?
 
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Ken Rank

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So we can't even be like minded on who killed Jesus? It's mind numbing.

I am in no way anti-Semitic, just pro-God's word. I do understand Romans 11. What you say in the book of Acts about the Jews believing is absolutely true, but that has does not negate the fact that earlier they had, in fact, killed Jesus. Again,why can't we just read what's written, say amen, and believe it?

Acts 2:22-23,
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye (Jews) have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 2:36,

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye (Jewes) have crucified, both Lord and Christ.​

Acts 3:14-15,

14 But ye (the Jews) denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.​

Acts 4:10,

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye (Jews) crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
It looks like the idea that the Jews killed Jesus was around well before Justin Martyr. Luke sure seemed to think so when God revealed the book of Acts to him. Otherwise, what do these verses mean?
Yes, mind numbing indeed! Most Jews had nothing to do with his death. You had the leaders all rallying the people there to pick a false messiah (bar abba - son of the father) but the courtyard this took place in did not hold 80,000 Jews... just hundreds. At least 1/4 of the Jewish people believed he was messiah. Furthermore, Paul wrote that God entrusted the Jews with His holy Word... and you are calling them Christ killers... again, mind numbing. Regardless, being of one mind and one accord is NOT looking, thinking, and acting alike. It is being united toward the common goal despite any differences we might have. Accept that or reject it... that is up to you, I am not going to debate it. Be blessed!
 
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rrobsr

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I see what you saying about the Jews. Perhaps I've been overly inclusive. Thanks for making me think about that.

The only thing we do know for sure is that the leaders and those at his "trial" called for his death. The rest must have included thousands who did believe. Very good point.

Again, it's not individual people themselves that are somehow evil. Nobody can go beyond what they are taught. Clearly, from Jesus comment to the Pharisees regarding the washing of hands in Matt 15, he meant they were teaching tradition vs truth. They themselves had been so taught in their schools. It went that way for generations until tradition was taught at the expense of the commandments of God. It's no one individual's fault. It was all Satan's idea to keep them from knowing the truth. They fell for it. So did Adam and Eve. So do I. So do you. God fixed it, so no point on dwelling on something he took care of.

None of this has to do with larger doctrinal matters, say, once saved always saved - yes/no? That's a pretty big thing and there are many other big things like that that Christians can't agree on. I just can't see blowing it off as OK. Truth vs tradition. God says it matters. Like I said, thanks for your input. It makes sense.
 
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None of this has to do with larger doctrinal matters, say, once saved always saved - yes/no? That's a pretty big thing and there are many other big things like that that Christians can't agree on. I just can't see blowing it off as OK. Truth vs tradition. God says it matters. Like I said, thanks for your input. It makes sense.

Thanks for the rest (that I didn't clip) that shows a brotherly spirit. Is it ok to blow some things off? I don't know... if I think there is a second exodus and you think there is a pre-tribulation rapture, does it really matter which one of us.... if either.... is correct? If I think I can lose my salvation and you think nothing you can do would cause you to lose it... does THAT really matter? If you're correct, there is a sense of security and if I am correct I am watching my steps a little more closely. So what? :) Kind of like heaven or sleep? If you believe you die and go to heaven and I come to the conclusion that we sleep until the resurrection, does it REALLY matter which is correct? In both cases, when we close our eyes on this world and open them again, we will see HIM. :oldthumbsup: The idea that we have to conform on all forms of doctrine is a very Greek centered way of thinking... which is what we are raised in here in the west.

As for tradition... tradition just means "that which is handed down," and therefore tradition can be good or bad. The gospel is tradition... it has been handed down to us through the writings we hold dear. So truth can be tradition and when Yeshua is rebuking certain Pharisees over their traditions he is dealing with specific people with specific traditions that stood in contrast to the Word of God and His character. I can show you where messiah took part in things we only find in the Jewish Talmud, not in the bible. Does it matter? To our Christian senses it does... but not to God. Whatever we do should be done in the name of... that is to say... in the character and authority of... the Lord. Yeshua taking part in Hanukkah or the water libation ceremony on the last day of Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles) is not against God's character. What is against it is when we stand up and teach from God's word and then walk away and deny what we taught by our lifestyle.

Blessings.
Ken
 
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The question is, how what exactly is this "likemindedness" and "one mind" and how can this state be achieved? In my view the answer involves 4 of the most neglected spiritual principles in the NT:

rrob: Phil 2:2: "Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

(1) The question if what "likeminded" and "one mind" means in practice and how this state can be attained. The next verse offers a key in what may be the most overlooked spiritual teaching in the NT:

"Do nothing from selfish ambition and conceit, but in humility esteem others as better than yourselves (Phil. 2:3)."

rrobsr : Rom 15:5-6: "Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

(2) "Let love be genuine....Outdo one another in showing respect (Romans 12:9-10)." Thus, Christian love is not authentic unless a competition is set up to see who can outdo each other in showing each other respect. I find this principle both witty and profound.

So if I choose to perceive you from the perspective that in some ways you better than me and, with that perception, I make sure that I am treating you with more respect than you are treating me, then I am well on the path to becoming one mind with you.

(3) "One mind" also has a mystical meaning, the one mind of the corporate body of Christ: "If one member (body part) suffers, all member suffer together with it (1 Corinthians 12:26)." The key to understanding this text is a recognition that Paul is not discussing what should be the case, but rather what is actually the case. If I neglect a hurting Christian in my fellowship, then I pay an undetermined price in personal suffering for that neglect. Paul gives the example of Corinthian members who are sick, dying, and dead as result of their neglect of the poor during the service of Holy Communion (11: 18-22, 37-30).

(4) But realistically, most of us feel superior to the mentally limited and impaired in our church. In what sense can we possibly esteem them as better than ourselves. By recognizing this principle of corporate body life:
"God has so arranged the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior member (12:26)."

For example, I'm a member of a small prayer group that has been praying for a mentally ill, drug addicted young woman, who has been in and out of jail and mental hospitals and has been routinely exploited in drugs for sex arrangements in which she takes hard drugs instead of her medications. Our prayers for her had limited effect until we recruited David, a seriously bipolar Christian to our group, who also had been in and out of jail and mental hospitals. As soon as David began praying for her, she astoundingly volunteered to enter a year-long treatment program! The faith of this so-called "lesser member" was more effective than our own.
"Do nothing from selfish ambition and conceit, but in humility esteem others as better than yourselves (Phil. 2:3)."

Amen.
 
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rocknanchor

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“, , that they may all be one“ (John 17:21)

“, , training in righteousness” (2 timothy 3:16)​

In the un-biased approach to handling, studying the word of God, here, I make exception. To solicit a call to order for readiness that otherwise would not happen if the wrong order is secured first. IMO.
 
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Thanks for the rest (that I didn't clip) that shows a brotherly spirit. Is it ok to blow some things off? I don't know... if I think there is a second exodus and you think there is a pre-tribulation rapture, does it really matter which one of us.... if either.... is correct? If I think I can lose my salvation and you think nothing you can do would cause you to lose it... does THAT really matter? If you're correct, there is a sense of security and if I am correct I am watching my steps a little more closely. So what? :) Kind of like heaven or sleep? If you believe you die and go to heaven and I come to the conclusion that we sleep until the resurrection, does it REALLY matter which is correct? In both cases, when we close our eyes on this world and open them again, we will see HIM. :oldthumbsup: The idea that we have to conform on all forms of doctrine is a very Greek centered way of thinking... which is what we are raised in here in the west.
 
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rrobsr

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What if, instead of saying, "...O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." in Matthew 26 in the garden of Gethsemane , he said, "...O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: on a second thought; it really doesn't matter. I don't feel like dying on the cross tonight"?

I guess Adam and Eve didn't seem to think it mattered what God told them either. Believe God, believe the devil, it's all the same. Fine mess that got us all into. If they had listened to God you and I wouldn't even be having this discussion. We would just be praising God for all he has done. But first, we need to know all he has done, and every bit, every jot and tittle, of it profoundly matters. I'm not trying to make you believe everything I believe about the Bible (not yet anyway :angel:). But it hurts me to see Christians scrutinize the language of their house deed more carefully than the perfect language of God's word. The lawyers, the escrow company, the bank, the buyer, and the seller somehow manage to be like minded when it comes to the home sale. They all know precisely what the document says and they understand every word means something. Why not the same with God's word?

God has a purpose for every word in his word; what he says, where he says it, to whom he says it, when he says it, and why he says it. The original god breathed word was perfect, it fit like a hand in a glove. If the churches taught us the word, this country would be more like Acts 26. At that time there was no hint whatsoever of division within the body. That is simply because they did think God's word mattered enough to the end that their thought were aligned with God's thoughts. That is the only way the word will ever prevail again like it did in Acts.

God bless....
 
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What if, instead of saying, "...O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." in Matthew 26 in the garden of Gethsemane , he said, "...O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: on a second thought; it really doesn't matter. I don't feel like dying on the cross tonight"?

I guess Adam and Eve didn't seem to think it mattered what God told them either. Believe God, believe the devil, it's all the same. Fine mess that got us all into. If they had listened to God you and I wouldn't even be having this discussion. We would just be praising God for all he has done. But first, we need to know all he has done, and every bit, every jot and tittle, of it profoundly matters. I'm not trying to make you believe everything I believe about the Bible (not yet anyway :angel:). But it hurts me to see Christians scrutinize the language of their house deed more carefully than the perfect language of God's word. The lawyers, the escrow company, the bank, the buyer, and the seller somehow manage to be like minded when it comes to the home sale. They all know precisely what the document says and they understand every word means something. Why not the same with God's word?

God has a purpose for every word in his word; what he says, where he says it, to whom he says it, when he says it, and why he says it. The original god breathed word was perfect, it fit like a hand in a glove. If the churches taught us the word, this country would be more like Acts 26. At that time there was no hint whatsoever of division within the body. That is simply because they did think God's word mattered enough to the end that their thought were aligned with God's thoughts. That is the only way the word will ever prevail again like it did in Acts.

God bless....
I don't know if you were talking to me or not, if you were you only showed that you don't have an understanding of what I am saying. It is "Greek" thinking that we all have the same exact understanding... in Hebrew, you learn to work together despite any differences... and as long as we have teachers and students, let alone any human factor being involved, there will be differences of opinion.

What's more.... I guarantee you that you know more today then you did 5 years ago and will know more in 5 years than you know now. So, which version of YOU do we all have to comply with, be like? Doesn't make sense, does it? :) Take care.
 
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I don't know if you were talking to me or not, if you were you only showed that you don't have an understanding of what I am saying. It is "Greek" thinking that we all have the same exact understanding... in Hebrew, you learn to work together despite any differences... and as long as we have teachers and students, let alone any human factor being involved, there will be differences of opinion.

I trust you know I was only kidding about you believing like me. That would be a big mistake! Seriously, we should believe like Jesus Christ, not like me or the Pope.

I'm pretty sure I understand what you are saying about Greek vs Hebrew thinking. If I do, it makes me hesitant to enter into any legal contract with a Jewish person. I never felt that way before, but If you are right, I don't think I'd ever really understand all the terms of any contract I entered into with someone that had Hebrew thinking. I like things precise and unambiguous. I don't want to have to keep working things out. That's why I like the Bible so much. It's the most precise document ever written.

I know a lot of Christians (way too many) that suffer every day from guilt, doubt, fear, and worry that they won't make the "final cut" or that they are not good enough. They have heavy hearts and sad faces. I can only guess that they get that from their church. Now what if it is in fact true that once saved/always saved (I'm not saying one way or the other). How many guilt filled Christians would live a much more dynamic and joyful life instead of being miserable? Would they in turn not be a better witness for God? I think it would matter a great deal to them if they knew they had been chosen before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blame before God (Eph 1:4). If they really knew and understood the greatness of what that verse says, their lives would be infinitely more joyful and they'd be a better witness.

If there is no precision in the Bible, what good is it? If it's OK for one believer to say once saved/always saved and equally OK for another to say, "no, you can backslide and loose your salvation" what are we left with? Why should God have even talked about it in the first place if in the end it's OK to believe anything you want?

I trust you know I love you brother...I do, in Christ.
 
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