VOICE yet another Trump fraud

Kevin Ambrose · Mar 1, 2017

Vylo said:
You claimed this country was founded by settlers. It was founded by invaders. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, but it is built on the bones of the natives.

So we should give it back?

If we return to Europe should non-Europeans have to return to their ancestral patches of dirt as well?

How much conquest are we willing to undo here?

Vylo · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
So we should give it back?

If we return to Europe should non-Europeans have to return to their ancestral patches of dirt as well?

How much conquest are we willing to undo here?

I never mentioned or suggested that. I'm just saying your statement about this country being settled are erroneous. Settler is not the term that should be used for a group of people that invade a land and slaughter the natives to build their own nation.

Kevin Ambrose · Mar 1, 2017

Vylo said:
I never mentioned or suggested that. I'm just saying your statement about this country being settled are erroneous. Settler is not the term that should be used for a group of people that invade a land and slaughter the natives to build their own nation.

So people that move here today are still invaders? They're still occupying the same land that was taken no?

When my great grandparents/grandparents settled here the military conquest of the Louisiana Purchase was already over. Are you saying that they were still "invading" conquered land?

Vylo · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
So people that move here today are still invaders? They're still occupying the same land that was taken no?

When my great grandparents/grandparents settled here the military conquest of the Louisiana Purchase was already over. Are you saying that they were still "invading" conquered land?

No, the invasion is done. The Indian nations were scattered and defeated. The natives are citizens of this new nation now (that only took a hundred years or so).

Allandavid · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
I already linked you data on crime caused by immigrants plus my personal experiences which are somehow less valid than your observations from 8000 miles away.

But it's all a moot point anyway. Trump is going to do what we elected him to.

No, you linked to some tin pot site that quotes Fox. Where's the RESEARCH?

And, you elected him to scapegoat sections of the country? How nice for you...?

Allandavid · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
More race baiting nonsense. There are plenty of ways to immigrate to the US that are legal and lawful. That is what we are advocating for.

Which has nothing to do with the formation of this VOICE rubbish. It has NOTHING to do with ending unlawful immigration. It is ENTIRELY about setting up a fraudulent case that claims that immigrants cause most crime. It is a lie, like most of what he stands for...

Allandavid · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
So people that move here today are still invaders? They're still occupying the same land that was taken no?

When my great grandparents/grandparents settled here the military conquest of the Louisiana Purchase was already over. Are you saying that they were still "invading" conquered land?

Irrelevant to the issue at hand. I can see why you'd want the subject changed, however...

Kevin Ambrose · Mar 1, 2017

Allandavid said:
No, you linked to some tin pot site that quotes Fox. Where's the RESEARCH?

And, you elected him to scapegoat sections of the country? How nice for you...?

And you responded with Wikipedia and the NY Times. Much better than Fox, right?

I haven't had time to look at the others yet. I will at some point tonight.

Kevin Ambrose · Mar 1, 2017

Allandavid said:
Irrelevant to the issue at hand. I can see why you'd want the subject changed, however...

It's not irrelevant. He said settlers is an invalid title for those who came to parts of the US that needed more immigrants.

Are you contending that America has a shortage of workers/people?

freezerman2000 · Mar 1, 2017

Allandavid said:
Irrelevant to the issue at hand. I can see why you'd want the subject changed, however...

Ever heard of MS 13?
Google them
Want them in YOUR neighborhood?
Think twice before you try to vilify someone wanting to protect their borders.
Ever heard of ISIS? Want them in your town?
THATS just 2 terror groups.
Want to know more?
Google is your friend
Borders are supposed to be protected..not treated as welcome centers for anyone,regardless of criminal intent....any border.

Allandavid · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
It's not irrelevant. He said settlers is an invalid title for those who came to parts of the US that needed more immigrants.

Are you contending that America has a shortage of workers/people?

Irrelevant to the subject of this thread, thank you.

Allandavid · Mar 1, 2017

freezerman2000 said:
Ever heard of MS 13?
Google them
Want them in YOUR neighborhood?
Think twice before you try to vilify someone wanting to protect their borders.
Ever heard of ISIS? Want them in your town?
THATS just 2 terror groups.
Want to know more?
Google is your friend
Borders are supposed to be protected..not treated as welcome centers for anyone,regardless of criminal intent....any border.

Again, the formation of this VOICE has nothing to do with the protection of your borders.
It is a racially motivated ploy to scapegoat a particular group with the crime in your country, despite the fact that immigrants perpetrate less of it.

Allandavid · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
And you responded with Wikipedia and the NY Times. Much better than Fox, right?

I haven't had time to look at the others yet. I will at some point tonight.

Yes, there are many others...happy to provide them...?

Allandavid · Mar 1, 2017

https://www.policefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Appendix-D_0.pdf

"Both contemporary and historical stud- ies, including official crime statistics and victimization surveys since the early 1990s, data from the last three decennial censuses, national and regional surveys in areas of immigrant concentration, and investigations carried out by major government commissions over the past century, have shown instead that immigration is associated with lower crime rates and lower incarceration rates. "

ViaCrucis · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
By settlers.

Massacre-of-Indian-women-and-children-in-Idaho-Frank-Leslie-illustrated.jpg

"Settlers"

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Mar 1, 2017

Everybodyknows said:
Immigrants are bad

Is this supposed to be a serious statement?

-CryptoLutheran

4x4toy · Mar 1, 2017

Allandavid said:
What rubbish! Those who have committed crimes have been arrested and punished like anyone else! Where do you think the figures come from??

Illegals ? No they haven't , they drive cars without insurance ,if they get in an accident the cops will tell you "you may as well be prepared to be responsible yourself and even if I arrest them they'll just be let go" ..

Armoured · Mar 1, 2017

Allandavid said:
Donald Trump has announced the formation of a service dedicated to highlighting crime committed by immigrants.

As is characteristic of all that he does, it is based upon the fraudulent assertion that crime is rampant amongst immigrant communities.

In fact, the reverse is the case. Crime rates amongst immigrants are, at best, lower than the general population and, at worst, no higher.

Now, where have we seen this before...falsely scapegoating a particular section of the population, in order to garner popular support?

Armoured · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
By settlers. There is a big difference between that and mass, illegal immigration.

No one has a right to come here just because they want to.

USincognito · Mar 1, 2017

Kevin Ambrose said:
So other people were persecuted decades ago which means we need to have an open border with Mexico. Got it.

So's Law in action.

VOICE yet another Trump fraud

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