Latest ancient structures unearthed

Papias · Dec 28, 2016

sdowney717 said:
It may not seem logical, you were not alive during that preflood time when these Nephilim were on the earth.

Irrelevant. That's like saying that the Mormon story about the gold plates is true because you weren't around to see the plates when they were here on earth.

Things leave evidence. That evidence tells us about the past. Was your grandma a space alien? Maybe! After all, you weren't around to see her get born, right? Or do you think that's silly? Yes, it's silly - just like your assertion that Nephilim existed because I wasn't alive back then.

If I wrote on my ancient history final exam for every question "none of us were alive then, so we just have to throw up our hands in despair - we can't know, after all!", then I would have failed the class, which would have been justified.

sdowney717 said:
The mythical stories of history of the gods and titans were of those mighty men of renown, the Nephilim before the flood.

....Or maybe they are just made up stories, like all the stories of flying people and magical powers?

sdowney717 said:
The great flood worldwide, reworked the entire world of that time, burying and crushing many things.

Which is why we still have plentiful fossils of thousands of other creatures? The flood waters were magical so that they just poofed away all the fossils of the Nephilim?

sdowney717 said:
In Amos we read of Nephilim giants.

Which never existed. Look, if all the physical evidence isn't clear enough for you, remember that due to simple math - allometry - giant people would have to have significantly different proportions than us, and that difference would be obvious in artifacts like clothes armor, and bones. From that alone I hope you can see that the hoaxer discussed above is lying to you.

There is more "evidence" for space aliens than there is for "nephilim". It's a mythical story meant to be read mythically, not literally.

In Christ-

Papias

The Barbarian · Jan 27, 2017

BeStill&Know said:
I love to watch archeological videos on YouTube or Netflix too.
About secular dating,,,I will never forget an carbon dating experiment taking a live snail and running the tests that proved it was hundreds of years old. So much for carbon dating.

No reputable scientist would make such a test. The reason is that mollusks get a lot of their carbon from geologic sources, which invalidates carbon-14 testing. Only if the organism gets carbon that ultimately goes back to photosynthesis, does C-14 dating work. This is well-understood.

Someone was trying to pull a fast one on you.

pat34lee · Feb 25, 2017

Shempster said:
Some oddities about them:

1. Being 3-15' underneath present structures, we must say that these structures are far older than the ones modern archeology has unearthed. This would precede a 12,000 year old date.
2. The deeper we dig, the more weathered the rock and larger the objects are. Many exceed 100 tons which cannot be moved by todays equipment.
3. Many of the structures are made from granite and andacite which would require diamond-tipped tools to cut. Supposedly, the people from the age the scientists agree on had only pounding stones and copper chisels. Many stones were transported hundreds of miles over deserts and mountains with no trees to use as rollers.

3. How would we know today if they used trees for rollers, which would be pretty dumb anyway? Roll, crush, now you have broken wood and sawdust all in your way. Scientists are obviously stupid when it comes to the past. They choose to ignore evidence that fails to follow their theories about how stupid ancient people were.

1&2. Giants and pre-flood technology. Some was remembered for a time after the flood, but not long, as men degenerated.

pat34lee · Feb 27, 2017

Papias said:
Which never existed. Look, if all the physical evidence isn't clear enough for you, remember that due to simple math - allometry - giant people would have to have significantly different proportions than us, and that difference would be obvious in artifacts like clothes armor, and bones. From that alone I hope you can see that the hoaxer discussed above is lying to you.

Ghost Hunting Theories: Just How Tall Were Those Giants?

Papias · Feb 27, 2017

pat34lee said:
Ghost Hunting Theories:

Wow, I'm sorry if you fell for those obvious charlatans. Do you understand why allometry - in addition to normal hoax detection- shows these to be fake?

In Christ-

Papias

The Barbarian · Feb 27, 2017

Papias said:
Wow, I'm sorry if you fell for those obvious charlatans. Do you understand why allometry - in addition to normal hoax detection- shows these to be fake?

It's not hard to figure out. The strength of bones and muscles increases roughly by the square of the length, but the mass increases by the cube of the length. So a creature twice as long as usual will have four times the strength but will weigh eight times as much.

Which means relatively weak, slow, and fragile.

pat34lee · Feb 27, 2017

The Barbarian said:
It's not hard to figure out. The strength of bones and muscles increases roughly by the square of the length, but the mass increases by the cube of the length. So a creature twice as long as usual will have four times the strength but will weigh eight times as much.

Which means relatively weak, slow, and fragile.

Which is why most recent 'giants' suffered during their relatively short lives. Imagine someone who wasn't suffering from out of control growth hormones.

Someone like Giant Gonzalez – 7’6″

pat34lee · Feb 27, 2017

Papias said:
Wow, I'm sorry if you fell for those obvious charlatans. Do you understand why allometry - in addition to normal hoax detection- shows these to be fake?

In Christ-

Papias

Do you believe in evolution? No matter. It would just be ironic to believe in such change without believing in adaptability within a kind. Not only thicker bones; denser bones, tendons and muscles.

If a bear is a bear, whether 4 feet or 11 feet, then what is a giant man, but a man?

Papias · Feb 28, 2017

I asked if you understood allometry. Do you?

The Barbarian · Feb 28, 2017

pat34lee said:
Which is why most recent 'giants' suffered during their relatively short lives. Imagine someone who wasn't suffering from out of control growth hormones.

Wouldn't matter. It's not a hormonal issue; it comes down to physics and strength of materials.

A truly gigantic human would be a pitiful thing, unless modified to the degree that an elephant is different than a gazelle.

Papias · Feb 28, 2017

The Barbarian said:
A truly gigantic human would be a pitiful thing, unless modified to the degree that an elephant is different than a gazelle.

.... and that's why it obvious to anyone who understands biological reality that these "artifacts" are clearly hoaxes.

Gospel_van · Feb 28, 2017

How Is this an issue for creationism? If anything, it confirms the account of Noah's flood.

pat34lee · Mar 1, 2017

Papias said:
I asked if you understood allometry. Do you?

Yes, and I understand the square-cube law that The Barbarian brought up. I say neither is absolute, and that the world has changed since the flood.

How large could dragonflies grow today, 5-8 inches? Any larger and they could not take in enough oxygen enough to stay alive. Yet at one time, before the flood, not millions of years ago, they grew over 18 inches long.

We have had recent or currently living people from 2 feet tall to almost 9 feet.
They both look human to me.

More on giants. Note the armor.
http://www.6000years.org/giants.html

Papias · Mar 1, 2017

pat34lee said:
Yes, and I understand the square-cube law that The Barbarian brought up. I say neither is absolute, and that the world has changed since the flood.

It's a physical law, based on basic math. It seems to me that saying "neither is absolute" is like saying that 1+1 = 2 "isn't absolute".

pat34lee said:
I say neither is absolute, and that the world has changed since the flood.

So would you say that 1+1 =2 might have "changed since the flood"?

pat34lee said:
How large could dragonflies grow today, 5-8 inches? Any larger and they could not take in enough oxygen enough to stay alive. Yet at one time, before the flood, not millions of years ago, they grew over 18 inches long.

Yes they did, because we know that the oxygen content back then (300 million years ago) was much higher - over 25% compared to 18% today. Multiple chemical methods of testing rocks formed during that time show the higher oxygen content.

pat34lee said:
... to almost 9 feet.

gigantism, usually caused by a pituitary tumor, can cause people to be nearly 9 feet tall - there are many confirmed examples. In all of them, the greater height causes the exact problems predicted by allometric law, with those and other problems being worse the taller someone is over ~7'. Much over 9', and it's obvious that the person wouldn't be a warrior, but rather would be unable to fight, if they could stand at all. It's no surprise that these people usually die young.

Yet, the examples we saw routine claim people over 10' tall - even as much as 14 or 20 feet! Do we agree that these are hoaxes?

pat34lee said:
More on giants. Note the armor.
http://www.6000years.org/giants.html

As expected, this is a mix of some possible claims mixed with what appear to be hoaxes. We can sort out which is which if you like.

Regarding the armor - First, a quick calculation shows that this person is claimed to be 8', 6" tall - which is possible as explained above - though their life was probably short and it's not clear that they could have fought much if that tall. Secondly, take a look at the claimed armor itself - the only actual armor shown is above the knee, so it's not clear that this person was actually above ~8' - even if this is real, someone over 7' would have easily worn this armor. There are thousands of people over 7' tall in just the United States.

Papias

The Barbarian · Mar 1, 2017

You said it much better than I did. BTW, giant dragonflies lived at a time when there was a higher oxygen level, meaning that the relatively inefficient tracheae of insects could adequately supply larger bodies, and there were no highly agile predators like hawks, to make easy meals of them.

pat34lee · Mar 2, 2017

Papias said:
It's a physical law, based on basic math. It seems to me that saying "neither is absolute" is like saying that 1+1 = 2 "isn't absolute".

Yet, the examples we saw routine claim people over 10' tall - even as much as 14 or 20 feet! Do we agree that these are hoaxes?

What is the variation in weight for a man of say, 6'6"? If both laws were absolute, there would be only one weight for him, and we know better than that. Take two examples like the Undertaker and Julius Erving, both athletes.

Considering the vastly different pre-flood world, and the fact that humans lived to almost a thousand years old, I would say no problem. All it would take is for man to continue growing past what we consider adolescence. No giant hormone imbalance required.

Speaking of which, look up Johann Petursson. He was no frail giant at 8'8", and lived to over 70 years old.

If there had been only a few questionable finds of giants, there might be something to say they were mistaken or some faked, but they have been found consistently, and all over the world. Both the giants themselves, and giant tools.

pat34lee · Mar 2, 2017

The Barbarian said:
You said it much better than I did. BTW, giant dragonflies lived at a time when there was a higher oxygen level, meaning that the relatively inefficient tracheae of insects could adequately supply larger bodies, and there were no highly agile predators like hawks, to make easy meals of them.

How is it that so many other animals, plants and insects went through giant phases? That is not something accounted for in evolution.

SkyWriting · Mar 4, 2017

Shempster said:
For those who love archeology...

these have been many many discoveries all over the planet of enormous megalithic structures built on top of ones most think were built by people between Adam and Noah's flood.
These structures throw a major wrench into the young earth creationism theory.

Some oddities about them:

1. Being 3-15' underneath present structures, we must say that these structures are far older than the ones modern archeology has unearthed. This would precede a 12,000 year old date.
2. The deeper we dig, the more weathered the rock and larger the objects are. Many exceed 100 tons which cannot be moved by todays equipment.
3. Many of the structures are made from granite and andacite which would require diamond-tipped tools to cut. Supposedly, the people from the age the scientists agree on had only pounding stones and copper chisels. Many stones were transported n
hundreds of miles over deserts and mountains with no trees to use as rollers.

I am not suggesting the ancient alien theory at all.
Nearly ALL of that comes from one man....Zecharaiah Sitchen. He claimed to decipher the Sumerian writings discovered a while ago.
Upon much investigation, I found out that there is only one small group of scholars in the world who can decipher Sumerian text...and get this...NONE of them has ever heard of Sitchen! Except for his book he wrote. Point is, he made it all up.

So where would we go from here?

Adam and The Garden are not described as young.
A young earth is a human concept, not scriptural.

Papias · Mar 4, 2017

pat34lee said:
What is the variation in weight for a man of say, 6'6"? If both laws were absolute, there would be only one weight for him, and we know better than that. Take two examples like the Undertaker and Julius Erving, both athletes.

Because it sets the maximum weight possible without problems. For people under ~7 foot, that maximum is quite high, allowing for significant variation below it. For people over 8', it becomes increasingly limiting. yes, that's still quite absolute. The undertaker and Erving quite absolutely follow that law of allometry.

pat34lee said:
Considering the vastly different pre-flood world, and the fact that humans lived to almost a thousand years old, I would say no problem. All it would take is for man to continue growing past what we consider adolescence. No giant hormone imbalance required.

Allometry is a mathematical relationship. Are you suggesting that math was different? Did 1+1 = 2.5 then? Or were bones made of carbon fiber to be lightweight and strong? We have thousands of skeletons older than ~6,000 years, and they are identical in every way to those today. Aside from the fact that there is no evidence anything changed after the date of the mythical flood.

pat34lee said:
Speaking of which, look up Johann Petursson. He was no frail giant at 8'8", and lived to over 70 years old.

Yes, he was frail. He had many bone and similar problems. And he was only ~7' 8", not 8' 8", though he said 8' 8" as part of his show performances.

At the age of 17 he was very strong and could lift a lorry, but at the age of 20 he was weak and suffered from walking difficulties. His height was thought to be 231 cm. (7 feet 7 inches),

Johann Petursson - The tallest man Iceland

Now why is it that I look up the data on your claims, instead of you providing the sources in the first place?

pat34lee said:
If there had been only a few questionable finds of giants, there might be something to say they were mistaken or some faked, but they have been found consistently, and all over the world. Both the giants themselves, and giant tools.

tools are even easier to fake than skeletons, and they have been widely debunked. If you think you have some evidence, feel free to post it. Otherwise you are making unsupported assertions. Here are photoshopped images made for a fake image contest.

Giant Skeletons Seem Too Real To Be A Hoax

pat34lee said:
How is it that so many other animals, plants and insects went through giant phases? That is not something accounted for in evolution.

It is easily accounted for (in fact, predicted) by evolution. Insects will evolve to be larger when more oxygen is present, and other animals will evolve to be large under favorable conditions, such as large landforms and no human predators. It's interesting to see the opposite effect, also predicted by evolution - small animals on smaller landforms, like islands, along with a greater variation in animal size (very small creatures can evolve to be large).

in Christ-

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