Question for ladies...

Poppyseed78 said:

Thanks for the extra info. What did the counselors say about the staying out late, drinking, and lying? Those are some serious issues, and I can see why you were upset. Then again, if your reaction was to punch walls and throw things, that wouldn't be right either. I'm not saying you did that. If all you did was withdraw (which is understandable), and make the comments you wrote above, I find your response reasonable considering the circumstances.

I would caution you against saying "you need to grow up," as that often just escalates things and makes the argument even more tense.

Did the counselors have any suggestions for working on rebuilding trust? Is your wife interested in working on your marriage? How long were you married? Is the staying out late something she always did, or something new? You don't have to answer these questions, but I do hope the counselors asked them too.

Prayers that your marriage is strengthened.

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I don't know, some woman need to told point blank to hear and receive. Once my husband told me "the world did not revolve around me" and it hurt but then I realized I did think the world revolved around me Once he told me I was "dispensable at work and could easily be replaced".. this hurt too, but it woke me up to the reality that I was not God's gift to the workplace. I was extremely self-centered, and haulty, and would have never realized it if he didn't make these statements.

Brantley Wills said:

Totally agree... I've also had those humbling moments in my life.. I originally asked the question because I wanted to see how women would respond.. I've been so curious about whether it was a female mindset or if this was a rarity. In my situation it has gotten to the point that I cannot suggest or give my opinion on anything because I'm told I'm manipulating the situation.
If I say honey we are running low on cash let's try to be conservative until I get paid.. I get accused of being controlling. If I tell her I don't like her going over to friends to drink. I'm controlling. If I get upset I'm abusive.

I don't remember it ever being this way until we started getting our lives right with God.
Which tells me it's a spiritual battle.
I'm an abusive, controlling, manipulative mean man. According to her.. However when I just remain silent( thinking it'll help).. I'm accused of not caring or having any emotion.. And that's what she longs for is my heart according to her..

It is an emotional roller coaster we've been on.

I love my wife with all my heart. I have never wanted a divorce. But I've withdrawn in order for Christ to change or break her and grow me stronger as a husband who is more prepared to be the leader of his home..

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Honestly, if my husband were staying out late and drinking, I would have some really harsh things to say to him. The thing is, for some people it would be a reality check that would snap them out of those behaviors, and for others it would be a powder keg that would blow everything up even worse.

Have you spoken to your wife's family at all about what's happening? You said that she stays with her parents sometimes. Are they aware of what's going on? I don't know if they would be open to talking with you, and sometimes involving relatives is not the right course of action. I just can't imagine that her mother would support her behavior. I know mine wouldn't.

Did you tell your wife exactly what you wrote here, that you love her with all your heart? Maybe she has to hear it. Are you still going to counseling together?

To me it sounds like you're not being abusive, controlling, or manipulative at all, and she's struggling with a spiritual battle, as you said. She has to stop the drinking and put it behind her and find happiness in her role as wife and mother. I really hope God heals and strengthens your marriage.

I always thought "verbal abuse" was hyperbole for "he yelled at me." I never really understood how words could be considered abusive against an adult, but I guess Gwen-is-new's response is fairly articulate. You can't call it abuse every time there is a fight, disagreement, or criticism. Just because something is not nice doesn't mean it's abuse.

Sgt. Ben referenced a restaurant scenario where the guy was being a jerk. I can see that being abuse if it was directed at a child. But as an adult woman, I'd respond, "Really? You think every single bite is making me fatter? What do you want me to do, then? Sit here and smile at my food? If you don't want me to eat, then why did you take me to a restaurant??" Then I'd get up and do calisthenics. "Is this better? You eat, I'll do jumping jacks. Next time you want me to work on my weight, take me for a hike. Because this is a boring place to exercise."

But man it bugs me when parents degrade their chubby kids. Really?? You who is responsible for buying the groceries is going to complain about what your kid eats? Then buy a bag of oranges instead of Doritos, genius. Maybe move somewhere with a back yard instead of a game console. It's entirely up to the parents to provide a healthy lifestyle, so it's pointless to complain to the affected child when the parent has failed to do that. But I digress...

Brantley Wills said:

Sure... I was actually accused of being mentally and verbally abusive..

I'm the type of person that if I'm accused of something negative I try to fix it.. I've asked people close to me if they felt that way about me. The answer so far has been no.

So over analyzing it, like I do everything..ha I decided to ask the question What does it actually look like??

I can see where I've exhibited a few of those behaviors at one point or another. Especially when I'm displeased or have been hurt. I think we are all guilty of a few of them..

But as I said I'm really just curious..

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I can tell you that I have definitely been an emotional abuser to my husband. I am not justifying my behavior but I have never been an emotional abuser to anyone my entire life until now. It also started after realizing how much he has lied and deceived along with his lack of communication and the way he just "assumes" things. He has talked with a therapist as well as other Christian men and he has pointed out many, many times my emotional abuse. He also was told by other Christian men that it was demonic. I have openly admitted my criticism and unacceptable words to him and others. However, there seems to always be a huge focus on my current behavior and not his lies and deception that is at the root of this. I can honestly say I am tired of hearing about how I need to change yet it seems as though it is so much easier for him to hide behind my behavior instead of facing his. I am learning that this goes both ways. Most of what my husband considers emotional abuse is me calling him out on his lies because he has such a difficult time just admitting he lied. I honestly just gave up and I keep my mouth shut now and pray. I will point out a lie and I will give my opinion on it but no longer do I argue with him while he denies it. I just tell him his lies do not go unnoticed by God, me and other people just because he denies it. Anyway, yes, an accusation of emotional abuse certainly can be due to someones inability to admit and face their own wrongs. However, I know at this point I need to honor God with my own mouth and behavior and not allow his sin to make me into something I have never been...an emotional abuser. This is not easy and I am not 100% convinced this marriage will last because of this but I am trusting God day to day and moment to moment.

Brantley Wills said:

However, there seems to always be a huge focus on my current behavior and not his lies and deception that is at the root of this.

I can definetly relate to what you've written.. I wonder if sometimes we stop to soon at determining the ROOT of the problem. I've been in many situations in my now failing marriage where I was wrong but with good intentions..

Example. Is your husband not being honest with you because he fears you will not be compassionate or you will not have any grace.. I know that I've been in that situation a few times. I would hide small truths to avoid being ridiculed by my wife.

On the flip side my wife would lie to me about things because she feared I'd overreact. In reality we created liars in each other..

It took us separating for me to realize it..

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We do often stop too soon at determining the root of the problem. From my experience, it just seems to easy and too common to focus on the superficial and also to focus on the most recent exchange of words, or an argument rather than truly digging in to expose what is really going on. Although my marriage is not healthy at the moment, I do have a level of understanding toward my husband and his chronic lying. I am not justifying it but his male "pride", "ego" is not necessarily a selfish one. He feels he is responsible for taking care of me in all aspects. Which is honorable to say the least. However, he has a very unhealthy perception of what that involves and because he made so many poor choices prior to us meeting and marrying he tried to hide it in fear of losing me. That is the selfish part. He chose to hide his entire past from me rather than work it through with me. All the while thinking that all his mistakes will just somehow go away and not affect us. Obviously that did not work to his benefit. Also, knowing the person I am and the fact that I had no choice most of my life to be independent and take care of myself, financially and otherwise, I walked into this marriage with a savings that I had worked very hard to build through building my own business. Unfortunately, I spent most of it bailing out his debts. That in itself has caused much anger and resentment toward him because of his false promises prior to marriage. If I had known he was so far in debt I would have helped him resolve it before we married. Which, part of our pre-marital discussions was to disclose our financial status. Anyway...he still feels like he didn't false represent who he was and his status prior to marriage because he doesn't feel like it was a lie, he says it was his past and didn't feel it relevant to our future. So, yes, he hid things out of fear of losing me initially but when i started finding things out, he continued to lie and hide things out of fear of being riduculed. The issue I have at this point is when I first started finding things out little by little I DID show him compassion. I would say to him, ok, first why didn't you share this with me and second, lets just discuss how we can work this out. The problem is, he chose to do nothing to make the situation better and as more things came to the surface over and over without any real effort on his part to fix this stuff, I started to lose that compassion and it turned to ridicule for a while but now I just stay silent because it is to the point that i would rather not say anything than say something hurtful. So, after cleaning my entire saving out to help him and his lack of effort to do his part, I got very angry and threatened to leave him and I almost did, Only then did he reach out for help and start actually making some progress. Now I am stuck with all this anger and resentment I am trying to overcome. He still lies and now he is more defensive even when I ask a simple question. He still doesn't not believe he lied but at least now he is willing to make some changes. I just wish I didn't have to turn into an angry bitter wife threatening to leave for him to take notice.