Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

BABerean2 · Jan 25, 2017

BobRyan said:
Revelation 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Bob,

I am sure you would like to place the number 10 in front of the word "Commandments" here or maybe you have just written it into that spot in your Bible.

However, you keep ignoring Paul's reference to the ministry of death written on stones in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

You also ignore the commandments of Christ found in 1 John chapter 3.

Your doctrine works by adding to the Word where needed, and ignoring where needed.

You are up to your old Bait-and-Switch plan again.

.

Bob S · Jan 25, 2017

BobRyan said:
Hint - your own pro-sunday scholars admit to the Bible fact that it is the BIBLE that uses the term "TEN Commandments" and they are written on the "heart and mind" under the New Covenant -- see the OP,,, see page 1.

Once again I wish to inform you that the "pro Sunday scholars" are not my scholars on the subject. They were wrong just as you and the SDA church are wrong. Please stop trying to relate me to anyone but Jesus.

You are right SDAs are not the only ones in error. I post your error because you are the one that believes it pastor. I am not unfamiliar with what SDAs believe. Until I took off my Ellen blinders I too saw a 10 before commandments. Anyway, Paul tells us we are not under the 10. In one hand a pastor in the SDA church tells us we are under the 10 and in another hand Jesus, through Paul, tells us they were temporary, faded away and we are now guided by the Holy Spirit. What is in your hand doesn't have a tinker's chance of being the real truth.

[staff edited]

BobRyan · Feb 19, 2017

Bob S said:
Once again I wish to inform you that the "pro Sunday scholars" are not my scholars on the subject. They were wrong just as you and the SDA church are wrong. Please stop trying to relate me to anyone but Jesus.

You are right SDAs are not the only ones in error. I post your error because you are the one that believes it pastor.

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

I am not unfamiliar with what SDAs believe.

I also used to believe that you knew that.

This particular thread is about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit to the glaringly obvious bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God -- and applicable to all mankind - even the saints.

Feel free to address the topic of the thread - at any time.

BobRyan · Feb 19, 2017

BobRyan said:
BABerean2 said:

You are correct about the Sabbath.
However, based on Colossians 2:16-17 the Sabbath is not a day of the week.
It is Christ.

.

Click to expand...

---------------------------------------------------------
Col 2 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

There are a great many places where you will not find the text "the Sabbath is not a day of the week.It is Christ." and Colossians 2 is one of them.

Eating still exists - "Eating is not Christ"
drinking still exists - "drinking is not Christ"
The Bible Sabbath still exists - "The Bible Sabbath memorial of creation - is not removed in Christ"

But there are shadow Sabbaths, annual Sabbaths - in Lev 23 with their animal sacrifices that do point to the sacrifice of Christ.

BABerean2 said:

Heb 12:18　 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")　

Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.　

We are not come to Mount Sinai. That is where the weekly Sabbath was given as a "sign" of that covenant.

We are come to Mount Zion, instead.

This is what I found in the text, Bob.

Click to expand...

--------------------------------------------------------
.

The saints in Hebrews 12 - are these -

Hebrews 8:6-10 "I will make a NEW Covenant with the House of ISRAEL and the house of Judah... I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"

The saints in Hebrews 12 - are these -

Revelation 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

===================

so then it is all TEN of God's TEN Commandments - even for your own pro-Sunday scholars

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

It just does not get any easier than that.

BABerean2 said:

So which commandments are the commandments of God in Revelation 14:12?
Hebrews 12:18-24 says we are not come to Mount Sinai,

Click to expand...

----------------------------------------------------------

Hebrews 8:6-10 says Christ gave us all the commandments and that under His NEW Covenant they are "written on the heart and mind" for the saints... so then ALL TEN in Hebrews.

Ephesians 6:2 - ALL TEN are included according to the Apostle Paul

James 2 - ALL TEN - according to the Apostle James

Mark 7:6-13 ALL TEN according to Christ.

John 8:34 - ALL TEN according to the Apostle John

Romans 3:19-20, 31 - ALL TEN according to the Apostle Paul

hint#1: that includes the command not to take God's name in vain.

hint #2: your own pro-Sunday scholars admit to this - read the OP.

BABerean2 said:
Bob,

I am sure you would like to place the number 10 in front of the word "Commandments" here or maybe you have just written it into that spot in your Bible.

Mark 7:6-12 Commandments of God = Word of God = Moses Said... according to Christ.

The point remains.

However, you keep ignoring Paul's reference to the ministry of death written on stones in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

.

------------------------------------------------------------
on the contrary I have a great many posts on 2Corinthians 3 showing that the law of God condemns all of mankind as Paul says in Romans 3:19-20 and that when the law is external "on stone tablets" as 2 Cor 3 says - it is the ministry of death. but when that same law is "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant - as Jeremiah 31:31-33 says (and as Hebrews 8:6-10 says) - then it is the "Law of Liberty" quoted by James in James 2... and it is the Eph 6:2 Ten Commandment Law for the saints where the "First commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment.

As we all know.

As has been pointed out many dozens of times.

As you and I both know.

Please be serious.

bugkiller · Feb 19, 2017

BobRyan said:
I find your logic "illusive" just then.

Of course his logic is illusive because he does not agree with you.

I also used to believe that you knew that.

He still knows that.

This particular thread is about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit to the glaringly obvious bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God -- and applicable to all mankind - even the saints.

I showed you with quotes from your own sources this is not the case. So why do you continue as though nothing has been said?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Feb 19, 2017

BobRyan said:
Mark 7:6-12 Commandments of God = Word of God = Moses Said... according to Christ.

We can do without your condemnation via the misuse and abuse of Scripture.

The point remains.

What point? Your false doctrine? Some of have read all the Bible including the NT.

------------------------------------------------------------
on the contrary I have a great many posts on 2Corinthians 3 showing that the law of God condemns all of mankind as Paul says in Romans 3:19-20 and that when the law is external "on stone tablets" as 2 Cor 3 says - it is the ministry of death. but when that same law is "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant - as Jeremiah 31:31-33 says (and as Hebrews 8:6-10 says) - then it is the "Law of Liberty" quoted by James in James 2... and it is the Eph 6:2 Ten Commandment Law for the saints where the "First commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment.

So the law condemns all mankind. Big deal especially when the law has no bearing on the new man (Christian).

How do you arrive that the "law of liberty" is the 10 Cs? Jn 5:24 says we have passed the judgment and have eternal life. The law did not condemn us or we could not have passed and secured eternal life.

bugkiller

As we all know.

As has been pointed out many dozens of times.

As you and I both know.

Please be serious.[/QUOTE]

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
Bob S said:

Once again I wish to inform you that the "pro Sunday scholars" are not my scholars on the subject. They were wrong just as you and the SDA church are wrong. Please stop trying to relate me to anyone but Jesus.

You are right SDAs are not the only ones in error. I post your error because you are the one that believes it pastor.

Click to expand...

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

I am not unfamiliar with what SDAs believe.

Click to expand...

I also used to believe that you knew that.

This particular thread is about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit to the glaringly obvious bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God -- and applicable to all mankind - even the saints.

Feel free to address the topic of the thread - at any time.
.

bugkiller said:
Of course his logic is illusive because he does not agree with you

This particular thread is about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit to the glaringly obvious bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God -- and applicable to all mankind - even the saints.

Feel free to address the topic of the thread - at any time.

As it stands now - we have my quote of them saying that very thing on page one - and then we have "thread derailment" - I choose to stick with the topic of the thread.

bugkiller · Feb 23, 2017

BobRyan said:
This particular thread is about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit to the glaringly obvious bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God -- and applicable to all mankind - even the saints.

Feel free to address the topic of the thread - at any time.

As it stands now - we have my quote of them saying that very thing on page one - and then we have "thread derailment" - I choose to stick with the topic of the thread.

I addressed it directly with quotes from your own sources which you seem to pretend do not exist.

bugkiller

BobRyan · Feb 24, 2017

bugkiller said:
I addressed it directly with quotes from your own sources which you seem to pretend do not exist.

bugkiller

What a nice thought - do you have an actual link to it??

Because I really do enjoy talking about their document - section 19 where they discuss the LAW and the Gospel and specifically the TEN Commandments.. for Example - "Baptist Confession of Faith section 19" -- and "Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19" as we already saw.. on ... page... one.

And D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments and the Sabbath -- as we saw on page... one.

And the Catholic "Faith Explained" document speaking about the still valid TEN Commandments - as we saw on page ... one.

bugkiller · Feb 24, 2017

BobRyan said:
This particular thread is about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit to the glaringly obvious bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God -- and applicable to all mankind - even the saints.

Feel free to address the topic of the thread - at any time.

As it stands now - we have my quote of them saying that very thing on page one - and then we have "thread derailment" - I choose to stick with the topic of the thread.

So your thread is about a falsehood based on out of context quotes.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Feb 24, 2017

BobRyan said:
What a nice thought - do you have an actual link to it??

Because I really do enjoy talking about their document - section 19 where they discuss the LAW and the Gospel and specifically the TEN Commandments.. for Example - "Baptist Confession of Faith section 19" -- and "Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19" as we already saw.. on ... page... one.

And D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments and the Sabbath -- as we saw on page... one.

And the Catholic "Faith Explained" document speaking about the still valid TEN Commandments - as we saw on page ... one.

Sure do. You will find it in the formal debate we had located beginning here Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

bugkiller

BobRyan · Mar 22, 2017

The point of the thread is that when a Bible detail is sooooooo incredibly obvious that BOTH sides see it clearly and admit to it... well.. "It just does not get any easier than this".

Bob S · Mar 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
The point of the thread is that when a Bible detail is sooooooo incredibly obvious that BOTH sides see it clearly and admit to it... well.. "It just does not get any easier than this".

I find it incredible that you, a pastor in the SDA church would use those misguided Babylonian scholars as examples to try to prove your point. Your Baptismal vows stated that you would believe in the "Spirit of Prophesy" and that prophet has informed you that Sunday keepers are teaching heresy. Their words cannot be trusted. Why do you use words from "the powers of darkness" to prove your point?

"When faithful teachers expound the word of God, there arise men of learning, ministers professing to understand the Scriptures, who denounce sound doctrine as heresy, and thus turn away inquirers after truth. Were it not that the world is hopelessly intoxicated with the wine of Babylon, multitudes would be convicted and converted by the plain, cutting truths of the word of God. But religious faith appears so confused and discordant that the people know not what to believe as truth. The sin of the world’s impenitence lies at the door of the church." {GC 389.1}

Said the angel, “Nothing less than the whole armor of righteousness can enable man to overcome the powers of darkness and retain the victory over them. Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body. The sayings and doings of men are dwelt upon instead of the plain, cutting truths of the Word of God. The spirit and friendship of the world are at enmity with God. When the truth in its simplicity and strength, as it is in Jesus, is brought to bear against the spirit of the world, it at once awakens the spirit of persecution. Very many who profess to be Christians have not known God. The natural heart has not been changed, and the carnal mind remains at enmity with God. They are Satan’s faithful servants, notwithstanding they have assumed another name.” {EW 273.2}

Bob S · Mar 22, 2017

Ellen White the prophet of the SDA church spoke a tremendous amount about the 10 commandments. After the great disappointment in 1844 faction of the Millerite group split. Ellen and a few went on to establish what is now the SDA church. As part of new group Ellen wrote the following: "I saw that since Jesus left the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and entered within the second veil, the churches have been filling up with every unclean and hateful bird. I saw great iniquity and vileness in the churches; yet their members profess to be Christians. Their profession, their prayers, and their exhortations are an abomination in the sight of God. Said the angel, “God will not smell in their assemblies. Selfishness, fraud, and deceit are practiced by them without the reprovings of conscience. And over all these evil traits they throw the cloak of religion.” I was shown the pride of the nominal churches. God is not in their thoughts; their carnal minds dwell upon themselves; they decorate their poor mortal bodies, and then look upon themselves with satisfaction and pleasure. Jesus and the angels look upon them in anger. Said the angel, “Their sins and pride have reached unto heaven. Their portion is prepared. Justice and judgment have slumbered long, but will soon awake. Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.” The fearful threatenings of the third angel are to be realized, and all the wicked are to drink of the wrath of God. An innumerable host of evil angels are spreading over the whole land and crowding the churches. These agents of Satan look upon the religious bodies with exultation, for the cloak of religion covers the greatest crime and iniquity." {EW 274.1}

The established churches would not entertain this new fledgling's doctrines, so Ellen had visions concerning all the so called "nominal churches. As seen in the vision above Ellen didn't hold any hope for the remainder of Christianity yet we find Pastor Bob, in everyone of his posts using several names of those nominal Christians to try to prove his point. I really do find this ironic in lieu of the fact that the prophet wrote such blasphemous writings against them.

BobRyan · Mar 22, 2017

Bob S said:
I find it incredible that you, a pastor in the SDA church would use those misguided Babylonian scholars as examples to try to prove your point.

Your one-sentence statement above is filled with a number of glaring errors and we both know it.

Bob S said:
Ellen White the prophet of the SDA church spoke

I think you already said that when it comes to the subject of this thread - you really don't care about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars affirm the Bible detail of the continued authority of all TEN of the TEN commandments and that they applied to all mankind in OT and NT --- isn't that right?

Which of course opposes your own thinking on the Ten Commandments.

Are you bringing up the subject of Ellen White now - because you think that they all got their ideas about morality, sin and the TEN Commandments from Ellen White?

If so... I find your logic "illusive". Feel free to clarify how it fits in the subject of this thread.

Bob S · Mar 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
Your statement is filled with a number of errors

I think you already said that when it comes to the subject of this thread - you really don't care about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars affirm the Bible detail of the continued authority of all TEN of the TEN commandments and that they applied to all mankind in OT and NT --- isn't that right?

Which of course opposes your own thinking on the Ten Commandments.

Are you bringing up the subject of Ellen White now - because you think that they all got their ideas about morality, sin and the TEN Commandments from Ellen White?

If so... I find your logic "illusive". Feel free to clarify how it fits in the subject of this thread.

If you believe she is a true prophet you wouldn't want to us those that have been filling up with every unclean and hateful bird. I saw great iniquity and vileness in the churches; yet their members profess to be Christians. Their profession, their prayers, and their exhortations are an abomination in the sight of God. Said the angel, “God will not smell in their assemblies.

I quoted those thoughts because they happen to be the thoughts of your revered prophet that you support 100%. It has been said by the hierarchy of the SDA church that her writings are of equal value as are the Holy Writ and yet you choose to use the writings of those she detested to prove your false claim. I find that to be a real conundrum.

P.S. I find said the angel "God will not smell in their assemblies" to be rude, inconsiderate, hateful and funny. Funny because of the term "smell". Do you really think an angel would use that term? Do you believe God would allow an angel to speak such a way for Him?

BobRyan · Mar 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
Your statement is filled with a number of errors

I think you already said that when it comes to the subject of this thread - you really don't care about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars affirm the Bible detail of the continued authority of all TEN of the TEN commandments and that they applied to all mankind in OT and NT --- isn't that right?

Which of course opposes your own thinking on the Ten Commandments.

Are you bringing up the subject of Ellen White now - because you think that they all got their ideas about morality, sin and the TEN Commandments from Ellen White?

If so... I find your logic "illusive". Feel free to clarify how it fits in the subject of this thread.

the question to you in that case was --

Are you bringing up the subject of Ellen White now - because you think that they (all the pro-sunday scholars affirming the TEN commandments) all got their ideas about morality, sin and the TEN Commandments from Ellen White?

If so... I find your logic "illusive". Feel free to clarify how it fits in the subject of this thread

Bob S said:
If you believe she is a true prophet you wouldn't want to us those

Why would I not want to point out the basic fact that this Bible detail is sooooo increadibly obvious that even those on the other side of the fence from me - on the pro-sunday side... fully accept that the TEN commandments are included in the moral law of God for all mankind - to this very day?

It might be "an inconvenient fact" for those opposing the TEN Commandments - but why should I (and ALL those on this board that affirm the Bible Sabbath) not thoroughly enjoy pointing to that "detail"?

You have never explained your idea there - and also you do not sustain anything like 'well then the pro-Ten Commandments pro-Sunday scholars must have gotten all their ideas from Ellen White - so I want to talk about Ellen White now instead of the topic of this thread"

bugkiller · Mar 23, 2017

BobRyan said:
This particular thread is about the fact that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit to the glaringly obvious bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God -- and applicable to all mankind - even the saints.

Feel free to address the topic of the thread - at any time.

As it stands now - we have my quote of them saying that very thing on page one - and then we have "thread derailment" - I choose to stick with the topic of the thread.

Which of those pro Sunday scholars teach and observe the Sabbath. They must for your idea to be valid.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Mar 23, 2017

BobRyan said:
What a nice thought - do you have an actual link to it??

Because I really do enjoy talking about their document - section 19 where they discuss the LAW and the Gospel and specifically the TEN Commandments.. for Example - "Baptist Confession of Faith section 19" -- and "Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19" as we already saw.. on ... page... one.

And D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments and the Sabbath -- as we saw on page... one.

And the Catholic "Faith Explained" document speaking about the still valid TEN Commandments - as we saw on page ... one.

I followed your links and read their sites.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Mar 23, 2017

Bob S said:
Ellen White the prophet of the SDA church spoke a tremendous amount about the 10 commandments. After the great disappointment in 1844 faction of the Millerite group split. Ellen and a few went on to establish what is now the SDA church. As part of new group Ellen wrote the following: "I saw that since Jesus left the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and entered within the second veil, the churches have been filling up with every unclean and hateful bird. I saw great iniquity and vileness in the churches; yet their members profess to be Christians. Their profession, their prayers, and their exhortations are an abomination in the sight of God. Said the angel, “God will not smell in their assemblies. Selfishness, fraud, and deceit are practiced by them without the reprovings of conscience. And over all these evil traits they throw the cloak of religion.” I was shown the pride of the nominal churches. God is not in their thoughts; their carnal minds dwell upon themselves; they decorate their poor mortal bodies, and then look upon themselves with satisfaction and pleasure. Jesus and the angels look upon them in anger. Said the angel, “Their sins and pride have reached unto heaven. Their portion is prepared. Justice and judgment have slumbered long, but will soon awake. Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.” The fearful threatenings of the third angel are to be realized, and all the wicked are to drink of the wrath of God. An innumerable host of evil angels are spreading over the whole land and crowding the churches. These agents of Satan look upon the religious bodies with exultation, for the cloak of religion covers the greatest crime and iniquity." {EW 274.1}

The established churches would not entertain this new fledgling's doctrines, so Ellen had visions concerning all the so called "nominal churches. As seen in the vision above Ellen didn't hold any hope for the remainder of Christianity yet we find Pastor Bob, in everyone of his posts using several names of those nominal Christians to try to prove his point. I really do find this ironic in lieu of the fact that the prophet wrote such blasphemous writings against them.

'Tis amazing.

bugkiller

Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

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