FREEDOM FROM SABBATH-KEEPING

S.O.J.I.A.

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Lets try LK 6:31
How about Jn 13:34; 15:12

bugkiller

the golden rule and the command to love one another do not abrogate the 10 commandments, they fulfill them.

read matthew 5:17-20 again. Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the law. when Jesus told us what the two greatest commandments were He said that these fulfill the law and the prophets. He did not say they do away with them. also keep in mind that those two greatest commandments are actually repeated from the mosaic law and represent the two tables of the law. Love God(1-4) and love your neighbor(5-10).
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

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Explain how either of them knew Jesus was dead.


Interesting question. Fine.

Fact is, if they haven't been at the cross witnessing Jesus' last moments, both must have eventually learned that Jesus had died, or neither of them would have turned up to bury the body—, Joseph at Pilate’s home, and Nicodemus later at the place where Joseph had started to prepare Jesus’ body for the grave.

Therefore, if they were present when Jesus died, they in any case left the scene together with everybody else, possibly not even knowing the one about the other.

But this was the night after the day the passover was killed when unleavened bread would have been eaten “at the First Night” (John 19:39), and Joseph and Nicodemus were members of the Sanhedrin, and under normal circumstances might have eaten at communal meal “At the First Night” and there, might have planned their undertaking to rescue the body from the fate of crucified.

The other Jews might at the same catastrophic passover feast dinner have planned their actions, and immediately “since the Preparation had begun and that day was great day sabbath of (passover-)sabbath”, went to Pilate and asked him to get the crucified killed quickly that the bodies could be taken down and the crosses be removed. John 19:31.

It was only “AFTER THESE THINGS” which the Jews had asked Pilate for, that Joseph turned up at Pilate’s palace and asked him for the body, John 19:38. By this time, “Evening had come already” and it was any time after sunset that it was BURIAL DAY and the fifteenth day of the First Month, the first day “SINCE they delivered Him over to be Crucified” and Jesus had died on the fourteenth day of the First Month.


Yes, the report calls Joseph good things, for example that he being a man of integrity, expected the Messiah. But he is not called a disciple like the twelve, and was not one of them. The twelve were with Jesus during the night He suffered in Gethsemane, and Jesus foretold of them, that they would all leave Him, and that He would suffer and be crucified and die, alone without them. Even John with Jesus’ mother, left Him before midday and the darkness started. Finally “EVERYBODY LEFT” and the place of the crosses was DESERTED BY “ALL”. So, if Joseph and Nicodemus were at the cross, it had to be before He died, not after.

But the way in which Luke [with ‘Idou’] and indeed every Gospel, describes Joseph’s “SUDDEN” arrival, it seems he came God-sent from where he stayed during the feast period with the clear intent to undertake Jesus’ Burial “according to the Ethical Custom / Law of the Jews to bury” specifically the Passover Lamb of God, whom Joseph was expecting and believed, was Jesus!
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

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the golden rule and the command to love one another do not abrogate the 10 commandments, they fulfill them.

read matthew 5:17-20 again. Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the law. when Jesus told us what the two greatest commandments were He said that these fulfill the law and the prophets. He did not say they do away with them. also keep in mind that those two greatest commandments are actually repeated from the mosaic law and represent the two tables of the law. Love God(1-4) and love your neighbor(5-10).

Look at the cross! See, The Love of God, crucified! Killed!
That Jesus is the Fulfilment of the Law to Love God above all ON THE CROSS MEANS, LOVE, DONE AWAY WITH!

Not halfway; totally "out of the way"!
 
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bugkiller

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the golden rule and the command to love one another do not abrogate the 10 commandments, they fulfill them.

read matthew 5:17-20 again. Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the law. when Jesus told us what the two greatest commandments were He said that these fulfill the law and the prophets. He did not say they do away with them. also keep in mind that those two greatest commandments are actually repeated from the mosaic law and represent the two tables of the law. Love God(1-4) and love your neighbor(5-10).
That is not what you asked for.

In response to Mat 5:17-20 I refer you to LK 24:44. I also assume you know about LK 22:20.

Jesus said to keep His commandments. Jesus did not say keep His Father's commandments. (Jn 15:10) We know Jesus kept the law. Do you have any evidence Jesus did something else? No one else here has ever shown that.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Interesting question. Fine.

Fact is, if they haven't been at the cross witnessing Jesus' last moments, both must have eventually learned that Jesus had died, or neither of them would have turned up to bury the body—, Joseph at Pilate’s home, and Nicodemus later at the place where Joseph had started to prepare Jesus’ body for the grave.

Therefore, if they were present when Jesus died, they in any case left the scene together with everybody else, possibly not even knowing the one about the other.

But this was the night after the day the passover was killed when unleavened bread would have been eaten “at the First Night” (John 19:39), and Joseph and Nicodemus were members of the Sanhedrin, and under normal circumstances might have eaten at communal meal “At the First Night” and there, might have planned their undertaking to rescue the body from the fate of crucified.

The other Jews might at the same catastrophic passover feast dinner have planned their actions, and immediately “since the Preparation had begun and that day was great day sabbath of (passover-)sabbath”, went to Pilate and asked him to get the crucified killed quickly that the bodies could be taken down and the crosses be removed. John 19:31.

It was only “AFTER THESE THINGS” which the Jews had asked Pilate for, that Joseph turned up at Pilate’s palace and asked him for the body, John 19:38. By this time, “Evening had come already” and it was any time after sunset that it was BURIAL DAY and the fifteenth day of the First Month, the first day “SINCE they delivered Him over to be Crucified” and Jesus had died on the fourteenth day of the First Month.


Yes, the report calls Joseph good things, for example that he being a man of integrity, expected the Messiah. But he is not called a disciple like the twelve, and was not one of them. The twelve were with Jesus during the night He suffered in Gethsemane, and Jesus foretold of them, that they would all leave Him, and that He would suffer and be crucified and die, alone without them. Even John with Jesus’ mother, left Him before midday and the darkness started. Finally “EVERYBODY LEFT” and the place of the crosses was DESERTED BY “ALL”. So, if Joseph and Nicodemus were at the cross, it had to be before He died, not after.

But the way in which Luke [with ‘Idou’] and indeed every Gospel, describes Joseph’s “SUDDEN” arrival, it seems he came God-sent from where he stayed during the feast period with the clear intent to undertake Jesus’ Burial “according to the Ethical Custom / Law of the Jews to bury” specifically the Passover Lamb of God, whom Joseph was expecting and believed, was Jesus!
Lots of "if" and "might" in your presentation. All I see is casting of doubt and disbelief trying to destroy the faith of the unlearned in the faith.

bugkiller
 
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Bob S

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the golden rule and the command to love one another do not abrogate the 10 commandments, they fulfill them.
Why would you write a thing like that? there is nothing in the 10 commandments about love. Those laws were the duty of the Israelites to do. One could do everyone of them out of love. It is like the speed limit, we do what the signs say not because we love those limits, we do it out of duty.

read matthew 5:17-20 again. Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the law.
What does fulfill mean? how about this: to bring to an end; finish or complete. Why would Jesus mention that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law until He completed what He came to do if He thought the law was never to end? HE knew the old covenant was to come to an end, so that meant the end of Torah.


when Jesus told us what the two greatest commandments were He said that these fulfill the law and the prophets. He did not say they do away with them. also keep in mind that those two greatest commandments are actually repeated from the mosaic law and represent the two tables of the law. Love God(1-4) and love your neighbor(5-10).
Jesus was under the law speaking to Jews who likewise under the law. Gentiles were and are not under laws given only to Israel. Likewise for Christians. There is absolutely no connection with loving our neighbor and the 10 commandments. The picture of love is so much greater than six commandments. There is nothing in the 10 commandments about slander, indecency, arrogance hypocrisy, blasphemy egotism, pride and the list goes on. Those are things we will not do to our neighbor.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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Why would you write a thing like that? there is nothing in the 10 commandments about love. Those laws were the duty of the Israelites to do. One could do everyone of them out of love. It is like the speed limit, we do what the signs say not because we love those limits, we do it out of duty.

so i can break all ten commandments and still love my neighbor?

What does fulfill mean?

what does destroy mean? did heaven and earth pass away when Jesus died on the cross?

There is absolutely no connection with loving our neighbor and the 10 commandments.

Jesus said otherwise, matthew 22:37-40

again, can i break all 10 commandments and still love my neighbor?

FYI, bearing false witness against your neighbor(9th commandment) is considered slander.
 
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Bob S

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so i can break all ten commandments and still love my neighbor?



what does destroy mean? did heaven and earth pass away when Jesus died on the cross?
Are you here just to make light or can we have a meaningful discussion. I really do not want to play games with you. Once and for all the 10 commandments were given to Israel and they alone. God didn't give them to any other nation. They are not the law of love as you seem to think they are and in 2Cor#:7-11 Paul writes that they were a temporary guide and Christians are guided by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

I suggest you go argue the issue as to whether we are under the 10 commandments with the apostle Paul. I am only telling those on this forum what scripture indicates.


Jesus used metaphors like Heaven and Earth......eye of a needle, etc. I noticed you avoided the meaning of "fulfilled". By the way, if you are going to continue to argue that the Torah has not been fulfilled and is the guide for Christians are you abiding by Torah? You do know that Jesus in Matt 5 was dealing with the whole law do you not? Do you keep the feast days, weekly 7th day Sabbath, wear tassels on the four corners of your garment, what is the length of your sideburns and do you observe all the other laws of the 613 that pertain to the individual? You cannot have it both ways my friend, either the whole law of Moses or the New Covenant in Christ. Or I guess you can deny both and not have any hope.

Jesus said otherwise, matthew 22:37-40
No He didn't, Jesus was referring to the commands in the book of the law not the 10.

again, can i break all 10 commandments and still love my neighbor?
Why don't you tell me and quit putting me on the defensive. If you have something to say then say it.

FYI, bearing false witness against your neighbor(9th commandment) is considered slander.
And I would suggest that pride, arrogance, fraud, indecency,slander, egotism, hypocrisy, lack of respect, and blasphemy, which are not in the 10 commandments, are just as sinful as any of the 10. I suppose you wrote that to indicate I am committing slander? How thoughtful of you. Just remember, when you point your finger at someone there are four fingers pointing back at you.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Paul's dealings with the law explained how we are not able to keep it perfectly not that we no longer have to keep it. "the ministry that brought death/condemnation" is the fact that all have broken God's law and are condemned before God. the "ministry that brought righteousness/life" is that Jesus kept the whole law perfectly and imputed His righteous onto those who are His sheep.

i actually didn't avoid the word but you did and are continuing to avoid the word 'destroy'. there are different parts of the law. moral, civil, ceremonial. the civil and ceremonial laws are transfered into Christ, the moral laws are not.

No He didn't, Jesus was referring to the commands in the book of the law not the 10.

the 10 commandments are part of the mosaic law which is the "law and the prophets". moses was a prophet.


Why don't you tell me and quit putting me on the defensive. If you have something to say then say it.

why do you refuse to answer this very simple question?
And I would suggest that pride, arrogance, fraud, indecency,slander, egotism, hypocrisy, lack of respect, and blasphemy, which are not in the 10 commandments, are just as sinful as any of the 10.

slander is violation of the 9th commandment, pride is a violation of the 1st, blasphemy is a violation of the 3rd, fraud is a violation of the 8th.

FYI, the 10 commandments are not the only moral laws of the mosaic law and, once again, the two greatest commandments are also part of the mosaic law(Deuteronomy 6:5, leviticus 19:18)
 
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bugkiller

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so i can break all ten commandments and still love my neighbor?



what does destroy mean? did heaven and earth pass away when Jesus died on the cross?



Jesus said otherwise, matthew 22:37-40

again, can i break all 10 commandments and still love my neighbor?

FYI, bearing false witness against your neighbor(9th commandment) is considered slander.
You are trying to prove we are observing the law, like it or not. There is no such thing as obedience by incidence. What you are unknowingly promoting is that every person in line with the last 6 of the 10 are saved.

If the law is still valid for even the Jew these days, Jesus is a sinner and does not qualify as our Savior/Redeemer and priest. Besides that such would make Heb 7:12 be a lie.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Paul's dealings with the law explained how we are not able to keep it perfectly not that we no longer have to keep it. "the ministry that brought death/condemnation" is the fact that all have broken God's law and are condemned before God. the "ministry that brought righteousness/life" is that Jesus kept the whole law perfectly and imputed His righteous onto those who are His sheep.

i actually didn't avoid the word but you did and are continuing to avoid the word 'destroy'. there are different parts of the law. moral, civil, ceremonial. the civil and ceremonial laws are transfered into Christ, the moral laws are not.



the 10 commandments are part of the mosaic law which is the "law and the prophets". moses was a prophet.




why do you refuse to answer this very simple question?


slander is violation of the 9th commandment, pride is a violation of the 1st, blasphemy is a violation of the 3rd, fraud is a violation of the 8th.

FYI, the 10 commandments are not the only moral laws of the mosaic law and, once again, the two greatest commandments are also part of the mosaic law(Deuteronomy 6:5, leviticus 19:18)
All of your issues have been addressed ad nauseam in this forum. Please just read it and quit arguing for the sake of arguing.

bugkiller
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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All of your issues have been addressed ad nauseam in this forum. Please just read it and quit arguing for the sake of arguing.

i've yet to see an answer to the question of if i can break all 10 commandments and still love my neighbor.
You are trying to prove we are observing the law, like it or not. There is no such thing as obedience by incidence. What you are unknowingly promoting is that every person in line with the last 6 of the 10 are saved.

If the law is still valid for even the Jew these days, Jesus is a sinner and does not qualify as our Savior/Redeemer and priest. Besides that such would make Heb 7:12 be a lie.

?????
 
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