Your Turn - Ask a Jew -- a Jew's View

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you again for taking the time to reply. You may find this to be against your beliefs, but the Apostle Paul indicated that Adam was "sown" in corruption, dishonour, weakness, and carnality (1 Corinthians 15:42-48), as Adam was FLESH. How do you think that Adam and Eve were in the light of Elohim when they were "sown" in such conditions? You see, Elohim CONSIGNED ALL to disobedience (Romans 11:32), and that included Adam and Eve. They started in DARKNESS/BLINDNESS, and did not realize their nakedness/sinfulness, but once they sinned, their eyes were OPENED, and they came to the KNOWLEDGE of how dark, naked, and sinful they really were (Genesis 3:7). This is why it was called the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. You have made the same mistake of most in thinking Adam and Eve were not FLESH/CARNAL, but that is how they were "sown," and those who are "carnal/flesh," cannot please Elohim, it is impossible for them to do so...they are in darkness (Romans 8:7-8). Your eyes have to be opened before you can come out from the darkness, and into the Light of Day. Night first, and then the Day. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
-II Peter 3:15-16

You sure love twisting scripture in order to suit your own twisted thinking. I Corinthians 15:42-48 is talking only about the resurrection of the body from the dead which is compared to sowing seed in the ground. You contradict scripture yet again for before the fall of Adam and Eve there was no sin in the world: and God looked at everything He had made and saw that it was very good on the sixth day. How can God declare His creations good if there is corruption in them as you falsely assume? Furthermore after Adam and Eve were wedded to each other:

"And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
-Genesis 2:25

"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."
-Genesis 3:7

We see that pre fall Adam and Eve had nothing to be ashamed of as they were perfect without sin. Post fall they became ashamed of their spiritual nakedness for they knew they had sinned and believed that they could hide their sin from God through a covering of themselves:

"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the YHWH God make coats of skin, and clothed them."
-Genesis 3:21

We see that God showed man from the beginning that we cannot cover and atone for our own sins but, it is He who will cover and atone for them. This is fulfilled through the death of the old Adam (Man) who was raised up a new Adam (Man) Jesus in order we who are in sin like Adam might die to our old selves in the burial of water baptism and be raised up to a new life free from sin in Christ Jesus. I ask you this, if sin is disobedience to God and sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve disobeying God's command to not eat from the forbidden fruit: then sin would not have entered into the world if Adam and Eve obeyed the Word of God: therefore that would make them sinless from the beginning. It is no surprse why you do not understand this as your passage from Romans proves that you are trying to serve God with your carnal mind which does not mind nor do the works of the spirit. We see then that Adam would not have to be sown into the ground to die and be resurrected to life if he had not sinned in the first place nor would there be a reason for God to save mankind from sin and death.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you for the reply. I follow the calendar that Yeshua followed. Your calendar is not what Yeshua followed, and it is incorrect. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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And does that calendar follow the Sun, Moon, or stars? Or is it agriculturally based? I follow the only one mentioned in the Bible: 360 Days + 4 Intercalary Days.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you again for you taking the time to respond. Your knowledge of sacrifice and the Scriptures seem to be lacking. Do you not realize these basic things:

Lev 6:13
(13) The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.

Num 28:9-10
(9) And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
(10) This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

Eze 46:4
(4) And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.

Now I ask, if the Sabbath can be "profaned" to perform the burning required for Sabbath Offerings (Matthew 12:5), why not for the Passover on the Sabbath? Your argument is very weak in denying that the Passover could fall ON the Sabbath. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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LOL! You love to misquote scripture don't you? All of your passages deal with the continual burnt offering and not the Passover. Offering is not the same as cooking food for consumption. During Passover the lambs were to be killed, roasted whole on a lit fire, and eaten in haste (Exodus 12:1-11 ff.):

"Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the Sabbath day."
-Exodus 35:3

We see clearly that Passover is not the continual burnt offering which also had the command given to the priests to keep the fire burning continually: God does not contradict Himself. Therefore whether Israel was observing the 7th Day Sabbath or a sabbath connected to the holy days the fire for the continual burnt offerings would not be violating the any of the Sabbaths as the fire would be continually burning.
And your Matthew 12:5 reference is a rhetorical questioned posed by Jesus to the Rabbi's: meaning that there is nowhere in the Torah that allows the Sabbath to be profaned. The story of David which Jesus cites is not a profanation of the Sabbath but, God showing His mercy by allowing the priest to feed David and his men so that they would not die from hunger: therefore Christ said that because they plucked grain on the Sabbath to stay their hunger, they were not guilty of profaning the Sabbath.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Sigh...Passover and Day of Atonement are the only holydays whichare specifically commanded to begin in the evening: this does not negate how a day begins and ends. And you are also applying false inductive reasoning thinking that because one holyday is observed at sunset: therefore all of the days begin at sunset. This is false as you still have failed to refute the words of Moses concerning the day beginning at morning.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you again for continuing. There is another that you need to add to your list that starts at sunset besides Pesach and Yom Kippur. As the sun was setting and Shabbat was beginning, the gates were closed to Yerusalem so that merchandising would not occur:

Neh 13:19
(19) And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the Sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the Sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the Sabbath day.

Or was Nehemiah ignorant of your calendar also, and he was wrong about the Sabbath starting when it gets dark? And concerning Moses' words being refuted. Please show where Moses states the day BEGINS at sunrise, and hopefully, you don't make Moses jump through a bunch of hoops. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

And does that calendar follow the Sun, Moon, or stars? Or is it agriculturally based? I follow the only one mentioned in the Bible: 360 Days + 4 Intercalary Days.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you again for your response. It depends. If you speak about the WEEK and the YEAR, then you follow the sun...every 24 hours is a day, and there are 7 days in the week, and this is pretty much set in concrete. If you speak about the MONTH, then you go by the Moon, and this can vary, as the days of the Month can vary according to WHEN the New Moon is seen, but normally, the Moon follows the cycle of a woman. I have not used the Stars for keeping time, but they help to rule the night, along with the Moon. Now, what is the Sun a sign of, and what is the Moon a sign of? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you again for continuing. There is another that you need to add to your list that starts at sunset besides Pesach and Yom Kippur. As the sun was setting and Shabbat was beginning, the gates were closed to Yerusalem so that merchandising would not occur:

Neh 13:19
(19) And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the Sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the Sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the Sabbath day.

Or was Nehemiah ignorant of your calendar also, and he was wrong about the Sabbath starting when it gets dark? And concerning Moses' words being refuted. Please show where Moses states the day BEGINS at sunrise, and hopefully, you don't make Moses jump through a bunch of hoops. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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Yes I was wondering when you or someone else would bring up Nehemiah. Just because it says that it began to be dark before the Sabbath does not mean that Sabbath began at sunset. What is clear from the context is that Nehemiah wanted to ensure that no one would be conducting business at all by entering into the city or hanging around the city walls to tempt Israel into profaning the Sabbath by carrying burdens in and out of the city. And in addition notice that it became dark (i.e. the sun had set) but, yet the Sabbath had not yet come: so this is another proof that the day began in the morning and ended at evening which began the morning of the next day.
I've shown you Moses' words plenty of times but, you seem to miss them every time read Exodus 16:23-29:

"And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."

We see Moses declared in the morning of the 6th Day that the Israelites were to gather twice as much manna and lay it up until tomorrow which is the following morning. YHWH confirms the words of Moses by showing His displeasure with Israel who went to gather manna in their greed on the 7th Day when God said through Moses that there would be no manna to gather.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you again for your response. It depends. If you speak about the WEEK and the YEAR, then you follow the sun...every 24 hours is a day, and there are 7 days in the week, and this is pretty much set in concrete. If you speak about the MONTH, then you go by the Moon, and this can vary, as the days of the Month can vary according to WHEN the New Moon is seen, but normally, the Moon follows the cycle of a woman. I have not used the Stars for keeping time, but they help to rule the night, along with the Moon. Now, what is the Sun a sign of, and what is the Moon a sign of? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

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Ah yes more of your ignorance. You seem to confuse the English mona which can be translated for 'moon' or 'month': this does not mean that the month is governed by the moon but, that it is referring to a schematic month. Similarly in Hebrew month is CHoDeSH when referring to schematic months--not lunar months--whereas YeReACH is the Hebrew word for moon. If as you say month = moon = lunar month then please explain how solar calendars' months are tracked by the sun and not the moon? From Genesis 1:14-19 the Sun is the Greater Light and the Moon and stars the lesser lights: we can infer from the text that the Sun leads the Moon and stars throughout the days of the year. This is made clear in 1 Enoch and Jubilees which state that the Sun goes first and is the Greater Light...but those books are like taboo for lunar observers as yourself right? For those two books also condemn those who follow the moon to bring in the year exactly in 364 Days with the Sun and stars.

@ImAHebrew Consider this passage talking about a supposed new moon sabbath correlation:

"Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat,
making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?"
-Amos 8:5-6

Notice that the new moon is singular and connected to the sabbath: there is nowhere in scripture that the holydays of YHWH are governed by new moons. This is no surprise as the word translated 'new moon' is HaCHoDeSH literally: the Month. Now the only month which has the beginning of it as a Sabbath is the 7th Month (Leviticus 23:24). Furthermore there are no commands in the Torah to observe the Sabbath at every new moon.

"Thus saith the Lord God; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened. And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening. Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the Lord in the sabbaths and in the new moons."
-Ezekiel 46:1-3

Notice how God is telling Ezekiel that the gate will not be closed until the evening and that in six working the days (i.e. 1st Day to the 6th Day) the gate will be shut: this means that God is directly telling us that the day begins in the morning. And if you look at the false translation of 'new moon(s)' you will see in the Hebrew HaCHoDeSH(IM) literally the month(s). Let us remember the warnings of Jeremiah to be wary of the vain and lying pen of the scribes.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Yes I was wondering when you or someone else would bring up Nehemiah. Just because it says that it began to be dark before the Sabbath does not mean that Sabbath began at sunset. What is clear from the context is that Nehemiah wanted to ensure that no one would be conducting business at all by entering into the city or hanging around the city walls to tempt Israel into profaning the Sabbath by carrying burdens in and out of the city. And in addition notice that it became dark (i.e. the sun had set) but, yet the Sabbath had not yet come: so this is another proof that the day began in the morning and ended at evening which began the morning of the next day.
I've shown you Moses' words plenty of times but, you seem to miss them every time read Exodus 16:23-29:

"And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."

We see Moses declared in the morning of the 6th Day that the Israelites were to gather twice as much manna and lay it up until tomorrow which is the following morning. YHWH confirms the words of Moses by showing His displeasure with Israel who went to gather manna in their greed on the 7th Day when God said through Moses that there would be no manna to gather.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you so much for continuing to debate. I must say, you really do not look at the Scriptures very closely. Tell me, when did the quail come, and when did the manna come? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you so much for continuing to debate. I must say, you really do not look at the Scriptures very closely. Tell me, when did the quail come, and when did the manna come? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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Yet another failed attempt to try and trip me up. While the quail came in the evening and the manna in the morning, this does not change when the day began. You are trying in your desparation that you ackowledge the day begins in the morning and then God turns around and says it begins in the evening because that's when he sent the quails? That is poor reasoning on your part, as Exodus 16:23-29 prove from the mouth of Moses and YHWH that the day begins in the morning and ends in the evening.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Yes I was wondering when you or someone else would bring up Nehemiah. Just because it says that it began to be dark before the Sabbath does not mean that Sabbath began at sunset. What is clear from the context is that Nehemiah wanted to ensure that no one would be conducting business at all by entering into the city or hanging around the city walls to tempt Israel into profaning the Sabbath by carrying burdens in and out of the city. And in addition notice that it became dark (i.e. the sun had set) but, yet the Sabbath had not yet come: so this is another proof that the day began in the morning and ended at evening which began the morning of the next day.
I've shown you Moses' words plenty of times but, you seem to miss them every time read Exodus 16:23-29:

"And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."

We see Moses declared in the morning of the 6th Day that the Israelites were to gather twice as much manna and lay it up until tomorrow which is the following morning. YHWH confirms the words of Moses by showing His displeasure with Israel who went to gather manna in their greed on the 7th Day when God said through Moses that there would be no manna to gather.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, OH, I forgot to mention something you said, "Just because it says that it began to be dark before the Sabbath does not mean that Sabbath began at sunset." Really? I suppose that if it says that the sun was rising just before the Sabbath begins, then you would accept that, but you deny this clear statement? Come on, do you really want to wrest this Scripture to mean something other than what it is saying? It was getting DARK, the sun was setting, the Sabbath was about to begin. Why do you deny something so CLEAR to have us believe your imaginations. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Yet another failed attempt to try and trip me up. While the quail came in the evening and the manna in the morning, this does not change when the day began. You are trying in your desparation that you ackowledge the day begins in the morning and then God turns around and says it begins in the evening because that's when he sent the quails? That is poor reasoning on your part, as Exodus 16:23-29 prove from the mouth of Moses and YHWH that the day begins in the morning and ends in the evening.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, are you a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? Do you like being pummeled? Come on, the quail (MEAT) came at sunset, and THEN the manna (BREAD) in the morning. Do you always eat the bread BEFORE the meat? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, OH, I forgot to mention something you said, "Just because it says that it began to be dark before the Sabbath does not mean that Sabbath began at sunset." Really? I suppose that if it says that the sun was rising just before the Sabbath begins, then you would accept that, but you deny this clear statement? Come on, do you really want to wrest this Scripture to mean something other than what it is saying? It was getting DARK, the sun was setting, the Sabbath was about to begin. Why do you deny something so CLEAR to have us believe your imaginations. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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Notice that Nehemiah says it began to be dark (i.e. it was sunset) but it was not yet sabbath: this proves that the day did not begin at sunset nor the Sabbath.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

@ImAHebrew Consider this passage talking about a supposed new moon sabbath correlation:

"Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat,
making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?"
-Amos 8:5-6

Notice that the new moon is singular and connected to the sabbath: there is nowhere in scripture that the holydays of YHWH are governed by new moons. This is no surprise as the word translated 'new moon' is HaCHoDeSH literally: the Month. Now the only month which has the beginning of it as a Sabbath is the 7th Month (Leviticus 23:24). Furthermore there are no commands in the Torah to observe the Sabbath at every new moon.

"Thus saith the Lord God; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened. And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening. Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the Lord in the sabbaths and in the new moons."
-Ezekiel 46:1-3

Notice how God is telling Ezekiel that the gate will not be closed until the evening and that in six working the days (i.e. 1st Day to the 6th Day) the gate will be shut: this means that God is directly telling us that the day begins in the morning. And if you look at the false translation of 'new moon(s)' you will see in the Hebrew HaCHoDeSH(IM) literally the month(s). Let us remember the warnings of Jeremiah to be wary of the vain and lying pen of the scribes.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you for this reply. Do you know why or how the Moon will be turned to blood (Revelation 6:12, Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20), and why It will not share or give of It's LIGHT (Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24)? And IF you really have "insight," please explain Isaiah 30:26. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, are you a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? Do you like being pummeled? Come on, the quail (MEAT) came at sunset, and THEN the manna (BREAD) in the morning. Do you always eat the bread BEFORE the meat? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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Lol! What stupid logic you have. Looks like Abraham sinned when he prepared meat and bread for God and the angels who ate bread and meat in the day time.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Notice that Nehemiah says it began to be dark (i.e. it was sunset) but it was not yet sabbath: this proves that the day did not begin at sunset nor the Sabbath.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, really? Nehemiah says that the gates BEGAN to be dark BEFORE the Sabbath, and you think that proves the Sabbath began in the morning? Puzzling? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, really? Nehemiah says that the gates BEGAN to be dark BEFORE the Sabbath, and you think that proves the Sabbath began in the morning? Puzzling? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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Your doors can only become dark when the light goes away. Nehemiah is making it clear that the gates are becoming dark because the sun is setting: so this disproves the theory of evening to evening which, by the way was adopted from Babylon which follows a lunar calendar. So yes this passage makes it clear along with Ezekiel 46:1-3 that the day begins in the morning. I have God, Moses, Nehemiah, and the prophets to back me up: you only have the false superstition of the so called Jews' tradition to back you up.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Lol! What stupid logic you have. Looks like Abraham sinned when he prepared meat and bread for God and the angels who ate bread and meat in the day time.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, let's be friends. Do you know what produces rain? Does California need anymore rain? Why not come to some kind of agreement, instead of the conflict of warm and cold. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

ImAHebrew said:

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, let's be friends. Do you know what produces rain? Does California need anymore rain? Why not come to some kind of agreement, instead of the conflict of warm and cold. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

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Sure let's be friends.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Your doors can only become dark when the light goes away. Nehemiah is making it clear that the gates are becoming dark because the sun is setting: so this disproves the theory of evening to evening which, by the way was adopted from Babylon which follows a lunar calendar. So yes this passage makes it clear along with Ezekiel 46:1-3 that the day begins in the morning. I have God, Moses, Nehemiah, and the prophets to back me up: you only have the false superstition of the so called Jews' tradition to back you up.

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Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you for that. Why didn't Yeshua correct the "so called Jews' tradition" instead of going in the Synagogues on the Sabbath (Luke 4:10, Luke 13:10, John 18:20), and even the Apostle Paul as his custom was going INTO the Synagogues on the Sabbath (Acts 17:2), and even James in his decision says that Moses is read in the Synagogues every Sabbath (Acts 15:21). So was Yeshua, Paul, and James all deceived into following a FALSE Sabbath? And why did Yeshua say that the scribes and Pharisees SIT in Moses' seat so LISTEN to what they say, but do not follow as they do (Matthew 23:2-3)? Really, YHWH_will_uplift, do you like being pummeled? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.