Is it possible to know God, or things or principles about God, through the Bible by Gnosis alone...?

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

Is it possible to know God, or the things or principles about God, that the scriptures teach, through the Bible, without any Bible, or by Gnosis alone...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves."

Does this mean it may be possible for one to know God, or the principles of God, or God's message, or the Gospel message, or the point or "objective" of the Gospel, or scriptures, by Gnosis alone...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

I'm just curious about this, it's not really that important to me, for I have the scriptures and believe in them, and believe whether it can be or not, it's just quicker and easier, I think, to just go to scripture... But, I hear a lot of secular, humanistic people bring it up a lot, and was just curious...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

This relates to the objective and mandate or point of the gospel, and a bit about knowing about God, or God's existence at least, by Gnosis...

1Timothy 1:5-7, Romans 1:19-23... Discussion...? Objective of this mandate (gospel)...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

The Gnosis I am talking about is an inner knowledge or knowing BTW...

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

Can God be intrinsically known...?

By that I mean: If we knew "everything" and I mean "everything" about ourselves and our fellow man or humanity, would we then, "know God" also...

God Bless!

stuart lawrence · Feb 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves."

Does this mean it may be possible for one to know God, or the principles of God, or God's message, or the Gospel message, or the point or "objective" of the Gospel, or scriptures, by Gnosis alone...

God Bless!

Its certainly true you don't have to read Gods laws in the bible ro know how God wants you to live, for the law is within you, written on your mind and placed on your heart

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Its certainly true you don't have to read Gods laws in the bible ro know how God wants you to live, for the law is within you, written on your mind and placed on your heart

Is how or is knowing how God wants us to live, cause us, or can it lead us, to knowing God himself, and can that be done by Gnosis alone, or not?

stuart lawrence · Feb 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Is how or is knowing how God wants us to live, cause us, or can it lead us, to knowing God himself, and can that be done by Gnosis alone, or not?

We can only give opinions as to your question. I will be happy to give mine.
Paul tells us Gods invisible qualities, his eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen , being understood from what was made, so men are without excuse
Rom1:19&20

He also tells us Gentiles who don't have the law, do things required by the law, they show the requirements of the law are written on their hearts(rom2:14&15)

If you reject Christ, God will reject you. However, will God cast you into hell if you have never heard of Christ?

So God is instinctively known by what is seen and made, and those who reflect obedience to the law, but do not have the law show the requirements of the law are I their hearts.
My deduction from this is.

If people who have never had the opportunity to hear of Christ show the law is in their hearts and live according to it, accepting God exists through what they see is made, God makes provision for such people.
Just my opinion of course. We cant quote the letter can we here

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
We can only give opinions as to your question. I will be happy to give mine.
Paul tells us Gods invisible qualities, his eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen , being understood from what was made, so men are without excuse
Rom1:19&20

He also tells us Gentiles who don't have the law, do things required by the law, they show the requirements of the law are written on their hearts(rom2:14&15)

If you reject Christ, God will reject you. However, will God cast you into hell if you have never heard of Christ?

So God is instinctively known by what is seen and made, and those who reflect obedience to the law, but do not have the law show the requirements of the law are I their hearts.
My deduction from this is.

If people who have never had the opportunity to hear of Christ show the law is in their hearts and live according to it, accepting God exists through what they see is made, God makes provision for such people.
Just my opinion of course. We cant quote the letter can we here

No, that's actually pretty good...

Thanks for sharing,

God Bless!

sdowney717 · Feb 12, 2017

People can not know God through wisdom.
Only the foolishness of preaching saves.
Simply because God must transform the heart, the heart of man being desperately wicked and beyond comprehension, meaning the unsaved heart is in turmoil and a serious mess aligned with Satan.
People hear the Word of God spoken to them and God changes them by speaking to their souls, God speaks into their spirits life.
Man will not live by bread alone..
Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”

Romans 10
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Basically faith comes by hearing God speak to you. And that hearing is a gift from God to be enabled to hear Him in the Spirit and so then you will be saved. When God speaks, in this way into your life, His word is a powerful creative force working inside of you, which is why you become a new creation in Christ.

More examples Titus 3:3
Titus 3New King James Version (NKJV)
Graces of the Heirs of Grace
1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Ephesians 2New King James Version (NKJV)
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Neogaia777 · Feb 12, 2017

sdowney717 said:
People can not know God through wisdom.
Only the foolishness of preaching saves.
Simply because God must transform the heart, the heart of man being desperately wicked and beyond comprehension, meaning the unsaved heart is in turmoil and a serious mess aligned with Satan.
People hear the Word of God spoken to them and God changes them by preaching which speaks to their souls, or God speaks into their spirits life.
Man will not live by bread alone..
Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”

Example Titus 3:3
Titus 3New King James Version (NKJV)
Graces of the Heirs of Grace
1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Ephesians 2New King James Version (NKJV)
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

I've met and know of many people, who have a general belief in a "one God" and most with Jesus Christ as well, but want nothing to do with religion, and don't know hardly anything about the Bible and rarely explore it, who have successfully seemed to have repented and made a complete 180 degree turn around in life, "and" in who they are now (compared to what they were), some with prayer, and some not, but still holding a very vague and general belief in a One God or Christ...

Anyways, I've met and know of many people who completely turned themselves, and their life around, in their life, and seem to have fully repented, like the Bible says, and are very, very good and much better people now who and because I would say, they have come to a point where they intrinsically "know God" in their heart, and know what God expects of them in their life, and seem to have some kind of good moral law or morality in them, that is more "like God's" than many so-called Christians that I meet or know of...

Anyhow, they are very good people, and seem to be following God in their lives, better than many Christians do, from what I've seen...

Are they not "Godly" people, on his path for them in their lives, regardless...?

God Bless!

sdowney717 · Feb 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I've met and know of many people, who have a general belief in a "one God" and possibly Jesus Christ as well, but want nothing to do with religion, and don't know hardly anything about the Bible and rarely explore it, who have successfully seemed to have repented and made a complete 180 degree turn around in life, and in who they are now compared to what they were, some with prayer some not but still holding a very vague and general belief in a One God or Christ...

Anyways, I've met and know of many people who completely turned themselves, and their life around, in their life and seem to have fully repented, like the Bible says, and are very, very good and much better people now who and because I would say they intrinsically know God and know what God expects of them in their life, and seem to have some kind of moral law or morality that is more "like God's" than many so-called Christians that I meet or know of...

Anyhow, they are very good people, and seem to be following God in their lives, better than many Christians do, from what I've seen...

Are they not "Godly" people, on his path for them in their lives, regardless...?

God Bless!

Eventually if God has saved them, they will confess publicly Christ as their saviour to the world.
We don't all just become 'spiritual giants' at once. If God is at work within them all those who are taught by God will come to Jesus, note verse 44-45, we must be drawn or we will not be saved, all those God draws become saved since all He draws, he teaches.

Jesus said this way..
John 6
41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[e] Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[f] from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

~Anastasia~ · Feb 12, 2017

The Scriptures even tell us that God can be seen in Creation, and that God has written His law on the hearts of men.

It is possible for a person observing the cosmos to understand there is a creator, and with right reflection, to understand things about Him. However, we cannot discount the work of the Holy Spirit here, so it is not possible to say with certainty that a person achieved that with his own mind.

But it is also possible for a person to pray, and enter communion with God, and be taught many things, without a Bible.

HOWEVER .... while this is a wonderful thing God can choose to do where there us need, we should never presume upon it where He has given us means to know the Truth. Many people have tried, with the Bible in hand, even, and come up with the strangest of doctrine and a world of heresy, whether from their own minds or from listening to suggestions from evil spirits.

In short, with God, anything is possible. But He has given us ways to know Him, as far as human beings are able, and it is foolish for us to reject those means and presume to direct our own paths.

DrBubbaLove · Feb 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I've met and know of many people, who have a general belief in a "one God" and most with Jesus Christ as well, but want nothing to do with religion, and don't know hardly anything about the Bible and rarely explore it, who have successfully seemed to have repented and made a complete 180 degree turn around in life, "and" in who they are now (compared to what they were), some with prayer, and some not, but still holding a very vague and general belief in a One God or Christ...

Anyways, I've met and know of many people who completely turned themselves, and their life around, in their life, and seem to have fully repented, like the Bible says, and are very, very good and much better people now who and because I would say, they have come to a point where they intrinsically "know God" in their heart, and know what God expects of them in their life, and seem to have some kind of good moral law or morality in them, that is more "like God's" than many so-called Christians that I meet or know of...

Anyhow, they are very good people, and seem to be following God in their lives, better than many Christians do, from what I've seen...

Are they not "Godly" people, on his path for them in their lives, regardless...?

God Bless!

Many Christian faiths allow for this, some don't.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 3

"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

AnticipateHisComing · Feb 12, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Is it possible to know God, or the things or principles about God, that the scriptures teach, through the Bible, without any Bible, or by Gnosis alone...?

If you can acknowledge that Hebrews 11 commends many for their faith before the Bible existed, then you have an answer.

But, remember Jesus' command to go to all worlds teaching of him, Matthew 28:19-20 and then the end will come.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Neogaia777 · Feb 18, 2017

Re-posting...

Bible2+ · Feb 19, 2017

Neogaia777 said in post #6:

Can God be intrinsically known...?

Yes:

Romans 1:19 ¶Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

People can know that God exists by simply seeing everything else that exists (Romans 1:20, Psalms 19:1-4). For the universe could not have created itself from nothing by physics, because of the first law of thermodynamics. So something outside of physics had to have created the universe. The term spirit is used to refer to that which exists but is outside of physics. So what created the universe was a spirit (John 4:24, John 1:3). And this has to be an uncreated spirit, because nothing, not even a spirit, can create itself from nothing, for in order to create itself, it would have to already exist. So just by being able to see the universe, people have no excuse for denying the existence of an uncreated spirit, also known as God (Romans 1:20, John 4:24, Psalms 19:1-4). And God must have eternal power (Romans 1:20), because the first law of thermodynamics requires that the energy in the universe is eternal.

Because knowing that God exists is the only reasonable response to seeing the existence of the universe (Romans 1:20), when educated and intelligent people refuse to admit that God exists, this is only because they are intentionally choosing to be unreasonable (2 Thessalonians 3:2), choosing to be foolish, regarding God's existence, because of their human pride, their unthankfulness to God, and their desire to continue in sinful actions (Romans 1:21-22, Psalms 14:1). But there is no salvation in simply believing that God exists (James 2:19). Believing in Jesus Christ, the human/divine Son of God, and his suffering and dying on the Cross for our sins, and his rising physically from the dead on the third day, is the only way for people to have their sins forgiven so that they will not have to go down into hell when they die (John 3:16,36, Romans 3:25; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

*******

Neogaia777 said in post #5:

The Gnosis I am talking about is an inner knowledge or knowing BTW...

That brought to mind:

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of [gnosis] falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Beware of those living today who like to say that they have "Gnosis", for they could be Gnostics.

The right knowledge/knowing (Greek: gnosis/ginosko) is necessary for people to be saved (John 17:3; 1 John 5:20; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 John 1:1b; 2 Peter 1:5,10-11, Luke 1:77). But what Gnosticism teaches is a knowledge (gnosis) falsely so called (1 Timothy 6:20b; see the original Greek).

Gnosticism is an ancient religious movement which says that everything material is inherently evil, while only that which is pure spirit can be good. Gnosticism teaches that all humans used to be pure spirit and dwelling in bliss from all eternity in a purely-spiritual heaven, called the "Pleroma", until by some mishap, humanity fell into the material universe and became trapped in fleshly bodies. Gnosticism reviles YHWH, the God of Biblical Christians, and the Creator of the material universe and of all fleshly bodies, as an evil, subordinate deity, a "Demiurge", who is keeping humans imprisoned and suffering in fleshly bodies and in the material universe.

Gnosticism became one of the main enemies of the early church, and it will become the greatest enemy of the church during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the Antichrist will be a Gnostic. He will teach the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (1 John 4:3). And the Antichrist, like the Gnostics, will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will instead bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

-

Gnosticism has some core teachings in common with the current, major religions of Buddhism and Hinduism:

1. The material realm is unreal and evil. (Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Maya", from Hinduism.)

2. People must strive to escape the material realm completely, and enter a state which is wholly non-physical (Parinirvana in Buddhism, the Pleroma in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Brahman", from Hinduism.

3. The way for people to get free from their imprisonment within the material realm is through their minds attaining a certain level of enlightenment (Nirvana in Buddhism, Gnosis in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Moksha", from Hinduism.

4. The way for their minds to attain this certain level of enlightenment is through following the way of the Serpent (one legend of Buddhism says that the Buddha was given the true Buddhism by the King of the Serpents; and in Gnosticism, Gnosis comes from the Christ/the Serpent). Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea of the enlightening serpent, originally called "Kundalini", from Hinduism. (Regarding the serpent in Genesis 3, Gnostics see him as the good guy, just as they see YHWH as the bad guy.)

The Bible contradicts each of the four points above:

1. The material realm is real, and was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). God himself is in the flesh (John 1:1,14, Luke 24:39), and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). So there is nothing evil about matter in itself.

2. People must strive to attain to a resurrection (Philippians 3:11), in an immortal human body of flesh and bones, like the immortal human body of flesh and bones that Jesus Christ obtained at his resurrection on the third day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25), and in which he will remain forever as Christians' fully-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:16-17, Hebrews 7:24-26). His tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and when he returns, he will show the scars of the Crucifixion on his body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

3. Resurrected people who have been truly enlightened/illuminated (Ephesians 1:18, Hebrews 10:32) by Jesus Christ (John 14:6-7, John 8:32, John 3:36) will remain in the material realm (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), ultimately living on a new earth with God (Revelation 21:1-4).

4. The Serpent, Satan/Lucifer, is the deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9).

Neogaia777 · Feb 19, 2017

Bible2+ said:
Yes:

Romans 1:19 ¶Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

People can know that God exists by simply seeing everything else that exists (Romans 1:20, Psalms 19:1-4). For the universe could not have created itself from nothing by physics, because of the first law of thermodynamics. So something outside of physics had to have created the universe. The term spirit is used to refer to that which exists but is outside of physics. So what created the universe was a spirit (John 4:24, John 1:3). And this has to be an uncreated spirit, because nothing, not even a spirit, can create itself from nothing, for in order to create itself, it would have to already exist. So just by being able to see the universe, people have no excuse for denying the existence of an uncreated spirit, also known as God (Romans 1:20, John 4:24, Psalms 19:1-4). And God must have eternal power (Romans 1:20), because the first law of thermodynamics requires that the energy in the universe is eternal.

Because knowing that God exists is the only reasonable response to seeing the existence of the universe (Romans 1:20), when educated and intelligent people refuse to admit that God exists, this is only because they are intentionally choosing to be unreasonable (2 Thessalonians 3:2), choosing to be foolish, regarding God's existence, because of their human pride, their unthankfulness to God, and their desire to continue in sinful actions (Romans 1:21-22, Psalms 14:1). But there is no salvation in simply believing that God exists (James 2:19). Believing in Jesus Christ, the human/divine Son of God, and his suffering and dying on the Cross for our sins, and his rising physically from the dead on the third day, is the only way for people to have their sins forgiven so that they will not have to go down into hell when they die (John 3:16,36, Romans 3:25; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

*******

That brought to mind:

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of [gnosis] falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Beware of those living today who like to say that they have "Gnosis", for they could be Gnostics.

The right knowledge/knowing (Greek: gnosis/ginosko) is necessary for people to be saved (John 17:3; 1 John 5:20; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 John 1:1b; 2 Peter 1:5,10-11, Luke 1:77). But what Gnosticism teaches is a knowledge (gnosis) falsely so called (1 Timothy 6:20b; see the original Greek).

Gnosticism is an ancient religious movement which says that everything material is inherently evil, while only that which is pure spirit can be good. Gnosticism teaches that all humans used to be pure spirit and dwelling in bliss from all eternity in a purely-spiritual heaven, called the "Pleroma", until by some mishap, humanity fell into the material universe and became trapped in fleshly bodies. Gnosticism reviles YHWH, the God of Biblical Christians, and the Creator of the material universe and of all fleshly bodies, as an evil, subordinate deity, a "Demiurge", who is keeping humans imprisoned and suffering in fleshly bodies and in the material universe.

Gnosticism became one of the main enemies of the early church, and it will become the greatest enemy of the church during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the Antichrist will be a Gnostic. He will teach the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (1 John 4:3). And the Antichrist, like the Gnostics, will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will instead bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

-

Gnosticism has some core teachings in common with the current, major religions of Buddhism and Hinduism:

1. The material realm is unreal and evil. (Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Maya", from Hinduism.)

2. People must strive to escape the material realm completely, and enter a state which is wholly non-physical (Parinirvana in Buddhism, the Pleroma in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Brahman", from Hinduism.

3. The way for people to get free from their imprisonment within the material realm is through their minds attaining a certain level of enlightenment (Nirvana in Buddhism, Gnosis in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Moksha", from Hinduism.

4. The way for their minds to attain this certain level of enlightenment is through following the way of the Serpent (one legend of Buddhism says that the Buddha was given the true Buddhism by the King of the Serpents; and in Gnosticism, Gnosis comes from the Christ/the Serpent). Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea of the enlightening serpent, originally called "Kundalini", from Hinduism. (Regarding the serpent in Genesis 3, Gnostics see him as the good guy, just as they see YHWH as the bad guy.)

The Bible contradicts each of the four points above:

1. The material realm is real, and was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). God himself is in the flesh (John 1:1,14, Luke 24:39), and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). So there is nothing evil about matter in itself.

2. People must strive to attain to a resurrection (Philippians 3:11), in an immortal human body of flesh and bones, like the immortal human body of flesh and bones that Jesus Christ obtained at his resurrection on the third day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25), and in which he will remain forever as Christians' fully-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:16-17, Hebrews 7:24-26). His tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and when he returns, he will show the scars of the Crucifixion on his body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

3. Resurrected people who have been truly enlightened/illuminated (Ephesians 1:18, Hebrews 10:32) by Jesus Christ (John 14:6-7, John 8:32, John 3:36) will remain in the material realm (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), ultimately living on a new earth with God (Revelation 21:1-4).

4. The Serpent, Satan/Lucifer, is the deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9).

Hey man, I just wanted to say thank you for that post, and all the time energy and effort you seem to have put into it, I appreciate it, very informative...

So, your answer is "Yes" it/he can be or it is possible, then, right...?

I don't really have much to say in response, unfortunately, but just wanted to make sure to say "Thanks"...

God Bless!

Bible2+ · Feb 19, 2017

Neogaia777 said in post #19:

Hey man, I just wanted to say thank you for that post . . .

You're welcome. Thank you for your interesting thread.

--

You pointed out in an earlier post:

Neogaia777 said in post #12:

I've met and know of many people, who have a general belief in a "one God" and most with Jesus Christ as well, but want nothing to do with religion, and don't know hardly anything about the Bible and rarely explore it . . .

That brought to mind that Biblical Christians need to be aware that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will consciously and openly worship Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this will not require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, he is not the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus suffered and died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this would not require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' second coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' second coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus returned. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is important to know when and how the real Jesus' second coming will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), whereas Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus suffered and died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH, and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). But Satan might not be worshipped as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could falsely say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind. And he could claim that even 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together prove this by showing that it was the single entity of YHWH/Satan who moved David to number Israel. Of course, the truth is that 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together simply mean that YHWH used Satan to move David. YHWH elsewhere rebuked Satan (Zechariah 3:2), so they are in no way the same person.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the unsaved world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

So the second coming of Jesus Christ will be a total shock to the world. The world will have been expecting to wage war against some evil Old Testament god named "YHWH" with the help of the good Jesus (played by the False Prophet) and with the help of the true and beneficent Christ/God (played by Lucifer) and with the help of the good Son of God (played by the Antichrist) and with the help of the good angels of God (played by the fallen angels of Lucifer: Revelation 12:9). But then instead of some evil god appearing in the sky, the world could see the glorious sign of the Cross (cf. Matthew 24:30), the symbol of the good YHWH suffering and dying for our sins (Acts 20:28b). And then the world will see the glorious appearance of the real Jesus, sitting on a white horse descending from the sky (Revelation 19:11-21).

When the people of the world realize at that moment how thoroughly they have been duped, and see in the sky the huge angelic armies (2 Thessalonians 1:7, Matthew 25:31) of the true Jesus, the true Christ, the true Son of God, and the good YHWH, who are all the one and the same Jesus Christ of Nazareth, they could utterly mourn and wail for themselves (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7), knowing in their spirits that Jesus has returned in wrath to destroy most of them for their unrepentant sins (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, Revelation 19:15-21).

Is it possible to know God, or things or principles about God, through the Bible by Gnosis alone...?

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