Is "Soul Sleep" becoming normal to believe in Christianity these days?

Beliefs should not change, should they? If something was true when Christ walked the earth, it's true today, right?

I see a lot of it too. And I'm not sure why. It wasn't something broadly believed in Protestantism, no. I never encountered it among the many denominations I attended.

And you are absolutely correct that Catholics and Orthodox do NOT teach soul sleep. It would rather undermine various doctrines and practices.

However ... last year a woman who I can assume was poorly catechized asked me about it in Church. She has a deep thirst for knowledge of God, and she watches all kinds of tv preachers. I explained to her that we do not believe in soul sleep, and why we don't, and she seemed skeptical, so I suggested we ask Father M. She didn't want to do that, for some reason, but asked an older lady in the parish, who DID explain soul sleep as being how things are (and even quoted part of our funeral service, which really had nothing to do with soul sleep! We pray for "rest" ... ). The older lady is a convert. And the lady who had asked me accepted the older lady's explanation, so now we have at least two in our parish who are firmly convinced, and won't ask the priest about it.

It wouldn't be the first doctrine to be introduced and then go one to become firmly entrenched in Christianity broadly. But I fear that such processes may really damage Christians and in some cases their credibility. Some of what has already become accepted is far more concerning than soul sleep.

And the nature of Christian belief is such that people are very unwilling to consider any alternatives to what they believe. In general, this is a good attitude to have - the essentials of the faith must not be compromised be deceivers who would creep in. But now there are so many competing doctrines, and though they are minor compared to the essentials, they still can represent a variety of errors. And people often don't have a framework of knowing who to trust, so many of them simply hold to what they were first taught and refuse to hear anyone who teaches otherwise.

Thankfully salvation is not based on knowledge. But wrong knowledge can, in various cases, make salvation more difficult, depending on exactly which wrong knowledge. Some of it is quite dangerous, imo.

/nvm

yogosans14 said:

A lot of people I read on the forums seem to believe in soul sleep, I thought it was a Jehovahs witness, SDA thing only. My family are JWs and they deny we have a soul/spirit and when we die we are dead and unconscious until the resurrection. I'm assuming Catholics, Orthodox don't support a theology but it seems all Protestants are moving in that theology.

I don't think its a big issue, but I read the scriptures at face value and nothing has ever given me the hint of Soul Sleep, when Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord I take that at face value. I'm sure SDA's, JWs have explanations for passages that support my theology in this regard but I feel like believing our spirit separates from our body at death to be with the Lord or eternally separated from him is a belief that isn't as common as it used to be. Why is this?

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I am an SDA and what you described is not what i believe as what is called soul sleep. I don't always like these labels for beliefs. Anyways, according to Gen 2:7 man does not have a soul, man is a soul. After God formed the body, he them breathed the breath of life (spirit) into man and man BECAME (not contained) a living soul. So it makes sense that in Eccl 12:7 it says that man returns to the dust and the spirit returns to God which gave it. The difference in understanding is with this spirit that returns to God. This spirit is not a conscious part of an individual that leaves at death so the person is alive in another form. This spirit is the breath of life which God has given every man in order to be alive. So when a man dies, the spirit returns to God, the body returns to the dust, he is unconscious and at the resurrection, the spirit is given back, the body is resurrected and the soul is alive again.

Our received teaching has been that man is a body AND a soul/spirit. Neither part without the other is a complete person. We know that a body without life is no longer the person. But the spirit/soul without a body is not a complete person either.

Death is an unnatural condition - a curse brought about through sin. Death is the separation of the soul/spirit from the body. When death occurs, the body is lifeless and goes into the grave. The soul/spirit remains conscious and its experience depends on its disposition toward God - some will be in the company of the righteous who have died and have a pleasant, restful experience, and can commune with God. Others will experience torment, if they hate God. We call this "the intermediate state".

At the time God has set, the graves will all be opened, all bodies will be resurrected, they will be reunited with the soul/spirit, and then will be the final judgment. The entire person, body AND soul/spirit, will then enter the final state, decided by Christ.

This is what the ancient Church has received, and what we teach.

yogosans14 said:

A lot of people I read on the forums seem to believe in soul sleep, I thought it was a Jehovahs witness, SDA thing only. My family are JWs and they deny we have a soul/spirit and when we die we are dead and unconscious until the resurrection. I'm assuming Catholics, Orthodox don't support a theology but it seems all Protestants are moving in that theology.

I don't think its a big issue, but I read the scriptures at face value and nothing has ever given me the hint of Soul Sleep, when Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord I take that at face value. I'm sure SDA's, JWs have explanations for passages that support my theology in this regard but I feel like believing our spirit separates from our body at death to be with the Lord or eternally separated from him is a belief that isn't as common as it used to be. Why is this?

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Don't be too concerned about the words in the Bible. The Bible was meant to be used by the Holy Spirit of God to reinforce the knowledge of Christ in those of us who are reborn in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit of God is our teacher and if necessary, will lead us to any scripture to support what is being revealed to us by the Spirit.

So trust the Spirit of God instead of what you read in the Bible and the Spirit will be your teacher, that is if you're truly reborn in the Spirit. If not, then you will be left to your own interpretations of what you read in the Bible and that will always lead to incorrect knowledge.

What is written in the Bible (understood in the context of the whole Bible) always overrides whatever one may hear from any spirit including the Holy Spirit.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1, 1984 NIV)

To do otherwise is to open a big door for Satan to enter your thinking and life, and it will definitely bring error.

~Anastasia~ said:

... And the lady who had asked me accepted the older lady's explanation, so now we have at least two in our parish who are firmly convinced, and won't ask the priest about it.

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This is a grievously common occurrence about everything, not just soul sleep. Most teachings of the church are passed on between people with some sort of inaccuracy introduced. That is one reason personally studying the Bible is important. While the path may wind around, the Bible keeps pulling one back onto the path over the long-term.

People want to believe what affirms them. Asking someone that should know better puts one at risk of being rejected. To find know the truth, we need to want to know the truth even if we would not like it.

... They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (2 Thessalonians 2:10b, 1984 NIV)

Greg J. said:

What is written in the Bible (understood in the context of the whole Bible) always overrides whatever one may hear from any spirit including the Holy Spirit.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1, 1984 NIV)

To do otherwise is to open a big door for Satan to enter your thinking and life, and it will definitely bring error.

Click to expand...

Christian discernment 101.

We need to offer that as a class.

This is a grievously common occurrence about everything, not just soul sleep. Most teachings of the church are passed on between people with some sort of inaccuracy introduced. That is one reason personally studying the Bible is important. While the path may wind around, the Bible keeps pulling one back onto the path over the long-term.

People want to believe what affirms them. Asking someone that should know better puts one at risk of being rejected. To find know the truth, we need to want to know the truth even if we would not like it.

... They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (2 Thessalonians 2:10b, 1984 NIV)

Click to expand...

I actually hope you are wrong in this case, but it may be so. It never occurred to me. I guess I've always been a "go to the source" kind of person.

We have just put an incentive in place for focusing our efforts over the coming year. I had hoped to volunteer to work in the background of the educational capacity. It is always a good thing, I think.

yogosans14 said:

A lot of people I read on the forums seem to believe in soul sleep, I thought it was a Jehovahs witness, SDA thing only. My family are JWs and they deny we have a soul/spirit and when we die we are dead and unconscious until the resurrection. I'm assuming Catholics, Orthodox don't support a theology but it seems all Protestants are moving in that theology.

I don't think its a big issue, but I read the scriptures at face value and nothing has ever given me the hint of Soul Sleep, when Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord I take that at face value. I'm sure SDA's, JWs have explanations for passages that support my theology in this regard but I feel like believing our spirit separates from our body at death to be with the Lord or eternally separated from him is a belief that isn't as common as it used to be. Why is this?

Click to expand...

I appreciate that you specifically stated that you read the scriptures at face value, because when i reflect on the magnitude of the Bible and the intensive labor that went into recording the scrolls, and that the audience who was receiving them were mostly common, functionally illiterate people, living among many different tribes with varying religious beliefs and practices, it becomes apparent that we should do just that - take the scriptures at face value, search them for recurring, unchanging principles that recur because they ARE important, and don't over mystify them, because God and Christ were very clear that spiritism and mysticism were not part of the Abrahamic tradition. I've studied with both JW's and Christian Apologists and that kind of logical/reasoning approach works for me - I know it is not how everyone comes to know Christ, but it is kind of amazing and awe inspiring that there are so many ways that God's word can reach us. It is up to us to decide how deep we want to dig, but if it sincerely reaches our hearts, I have to believe that is it's intended purpose and that God, who knows that, will always appreciate a sincere effort to come to know Him and His Son.

That being said, i think there is clear evidence for soul sleep recorded in both the OT and NT, i'll share some scriptures and see what your thoughts are, I'm really interested because you said your family are JW's, so I'm looking forward to your insight on some of the scriptures that they use and how you've come to a differnet conclusion. I am still working a lot of it out, but probably the most compelling words for me come from Jesus himself and the people who were literally there with him - the apostles. John 11:11-16 is the account that most influenced me further researching death, the resurrection and the afterlife because Jesus CLEARLY tells them what happens when we die and yet, even they are not sure what he means, so he explains it again to make SURE they understand so they can then SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH OTHERS i.e. - us. But - Something else to reflect on - if, when we died, we went to either heaven or hell, where was Lazarus during those 4 days he was "asleep" during the account in John...? Where was Jesus...? Stands to reason that wherever THEY were is where the rest of us will be until we are resurrected, doesn't it...?

Other scriptures that can be taken at face value to demonstrate the unchanging principle that is woven throughout the entire Bible - from Genesis to Revelation - which reinforce Jesus' assertion that when we die we are asleep until the resurrection include: Genesis 3:17 - speaks of nothing more than returning to the dust - no heavenly reward if Adam and Eve had been obedient, no hell for disobeying....the punishment for their disobedience was the REMOVAL of immortality, which is certainly punishment enough as evidenced through how much we agonize over it (the scripture that brought me more comfort on this topic simply because God acknowledged that he knows how much we struggle with the concept of death BECAUSE we were never intended to experience it - Ecclesiastes 3:11 "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." ESV) We can also look at how often the bible tells us that DEATH is the enemy, the wages paid for sin, not eternal damnation - Job 14:10-12; Psalm 103:13-15; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Daniel 12:2 - pretty clear; Jon 5:28-29 Romans 6:23. And, that no one is currently up in heaven with God and Jesus Christ - Acts 24:14-17; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12 - those last 2 scriptures assert that NO MAN has seen God at any time EXCEPT Christ, who is at His Father's side in Heaven. How can anyone who has been a mortal here on this earth be up in heaven now if we are still waiting for this day? Even Abraham was recorded as having to reason on this, and it was a big part of why he was willing to offer up his son as a sacrifice - because he TRUSTED in God's promise and unchanging principle of a resurrection to a perfect new earth; Hebrews 11:17-19; Isaiah 65:17 which is reiterated at Revelation 21:1, 4 . If Abraham had not had complete HOPE and trust in that FUTURE promise, would we even be here today to debate what that promise actually was...?

To specifically address the scriptures you cited at 2 Corinthians chapter 5, the context is established in the 4th chapter, where Paul reassures the congregation that their works and ministry ARE important here on earth - that if the people they preach to won't listen and accept the truth, it is because they are being blinded by Satan, who is the god/ruler/main influential force on earth keeping us from knowing our Heavenly Father and Christ 2 Corinthians 4:3-6. He tells them that the hope they have is for the resurrection in verses 13-18, which leads into the 5th chapter. But verses 13-20 give a lot of insight into the context of being in union with Christ and God now so we can be a light to others...and in chapter 6, he expands on that in verses 16-18 by telling them what they can expect if they do what he asks in verses 3- 13, that they open their hearts wide to be righteous ministers of God on earth. Ok - i'll stop but i truly do enjoy these discussions and am always wanting to deepen any understanding or correct any misunderstanding i may have, thanks!

littlebopeek said:

I appreciate that you specifically stated that you read the scriptures at face value, because when i reflect on the magnitude of the Bible and the intensive labor that went into recording the scrolls, and that the audience who was receiving them were mostly common, functionally illiterate people, living among many different tribes with varying religious beliefs and practices, it becomes apparent that we should do just that - take the scriptures at face value, search them for recurring, unchanging principles that recur because they ARE important, and don't over mystify them, because God and Christ were very clear that spiritism and mysticism were not part of the Abrahamic tradition. I've studied with both JW's and Christian Apologists and that kind of logical/reasoning approach works for me - I know it is not how everyone comes to know Christ, but it is kind of amazing and awe inspiring that there are so many ways that God's word can reach us. It is up to us to decide how deep we want to dig, but if it sincerely reaches our hearts, I have to believe that is it's intended purpose and that God, who knows that, will always appreciate a sincere effort to come to know Him and His Son.

That being said, i think there is clear evidence for soul sleep recorded in both the OT and NT, i'll share some scriptures and see what your thoughts are, I'm really interested because you said your family are JW's, so I'm looking forward to your insight on some of the scriptures that they use and how you've come to a differnet conclusion. I am still working a lot of it out, but probably the most compelling words for me come from Jesus himself and the people who were literally there with him - the apostles. John 11:11-16 is the account that most influenced me further researching death, the resurrection and the afterlife because Jesus CLEARLY tells them what happens when we die and yet, even they are not sure what he means, so he explains it again to make SURE they understand so they can then SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH OTHERS i.e. - us. But - Something else to reflect on - if, when we died, we went to either heaven or hell, where was Lazarus during those 4 days he was "asleep" during the account in John...? Where was Jesus...? Stands to reason that wherever THEY were is where the rest of us will be until we are resurrected, doesn't it...?

Other scriptures that can be taken at face value to demonstrate the unchanging principle that is woven throughout the entire Bible - from Genesis to Revelation - which reinforce Jesus' assertion that when we die we are asleep until the resurrection include: Genesis 3:17 - speaks of nothing more than returning to the dust - no heavenly reward if Adam and Eve had been obedient, no hell for disobeying....the punishment for their disobedience was the REMOVAL of immortality, which is certainly punishment enough as evidenced through how much we agonize over it (the scripture that brought me more comfort on this topic simply because God acknowledged that he knows how much we struggle with the concept of death BECAUSE we were never intended to experience it - Ecclesiastes 3:11 "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." ESV) We can also look at how often the bible tells us that DEATH is the enemy, the wages paid for sin, not eternal damnation - Job 14:10-12; Psalm 103:13-15; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Daniel 12:2 - pretty clear; Jon 5:28-29 Romans 6:23. And, that no one is currently up in heaven with God and Jesus Christ - Acts 24:14-17; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12 - those last 2 scriptures assert that NO MAN has seen God at any time EXCEPT Christ, who is at His Father's side in Heaven. How can anyone who has been a mortal here on this earth be up in heaven now if we are still waiting for this day? Even Abraham was recorded as having to reason on this, and it was a big part of why he was willing to offer up his son as a sacrifice - because he TRUSTED in God's promise and unchanging principle of a resurrection to a perfect new earth; Hebrews 11:17-19; Isaiah 65:17 which is reiterated at Revelation 21:1, 4 . If Abraham had not had complete HOPE and trust in that FUTURE promise, would we even be here today to debate what that promise actually was...?

To specifically address the scriptures you cited at 2 Corinthians chapter 5, the context is established in the 4th chapter, where Paul reassures the congregation that their works and ministry ARE important here on earth - that if the people they preach to won't listen and accept the truth, it is because they are being blinded by Satan, who is the god/ruler/main influential force on earth keeping us from knowing our Heavenly Father and Christ 2 Corinthians 4:3-6. He tells them that the hope they have is for the resurrection in verses 13-18, which leads into the 5th chapter. But verses 13-20 give a lot of insight into the context of being in union with Christ and God now so we can be a light to others...and in chapter 6, he expands on that in verses 16-18 by telling them what they can expect if they do what he asks in verses 3- 13, that they open their hearts wide to be righteous ministers of God on earth. Ok - i'll stop but i truly do enjoy these discussions and am always wanting to deepen any understanding or correct any misunderstanding i may have, thanks!

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Hello, Littlebopeek, and welcome to CF. Cute name, btw, and your avatar gave me a chuckle.

I only have a few moments, and I see you have quite a lot there. I'd have to look up many of the Scriptures to see what you are quoting.

Christianity has traditionally believed in the conscious experience of the soul after death, but I know for some that just opens a bigger can of worms.

But just answering the first part, since no need to look anything up, saying that one is "sleeping" is a euphemism for death. We still say in our Church, as we have from the beginning, that a person "fell asleep in the Lord". That means the Body has died, and the soul separated from the body, but we don't mean by that that the person's soul is unconscious.

If that were the case, the whole parable of Lazarus and the rich man would be bizarre, and it would amount to Christ at best misleading us regarding the truth, and He never did that.

Isn't it also strange, then that Moses could be seen along with Elijah and Christ, having a discussion at the Transfiguration?

Also the point that no man could see God's face and live ... well, we ARE talking about the dead, right? There is no indication of consciousness or unconsciousness implied there.

And remember too, there are martyrs under the throne of God in Revelation, and they talk to God. They are aware of what happens (and hasn't happened) on earth, and they are clearly both dead in the body (having been killed for the faith) and conscious, since they are talking to God.

Anyway, that's a start. I mainly wanted to welcome you to CF. I pray that you are blessed by being here.

~Anastasia~ said:

Hello, Littlebopeek, and welcome to CF. Cute name, btw, and your avatar gave me a chuckle.

I only have a few moments, and I see you have quite a lot there. I'd have to look up many of the Scriptures to see what you are quoting.

Christianity has traditionally believed in the conscious experience of the soul after death, but I know for some that just opens a bigger can of worms.

But just answering the first part, since no need to look anything up, saying that one is "sleeping" is a euphemism for death. We still say in our Church, as we have from the beginning, that a person "fell asleep in the Lord". That means the Body has died, and the soul separated from the body, but we don't mean by that that the person's soul is unconscious.

If that were the case, the whole parable of Lazarus and the rich man would be bizarre, and it would amount to Christ at best misleading us regarding the truth, and He never did that.

Isn't it also strange, then that Moses could be seen along with Elijah and Christ, having a discussion at the Transfiguration?

Also the point that no man could see God's face and live ... well, we ARE talking about the dead, right? There is no indication of consciousness or unconsciousness implied there.

And remember too, there are martyrs under the throne of God in Revelation, and they talk to God. They are aware of what happens (and hasn't happened) on earth, and they are clearly both dead in the body (having been killed for the faith) and conscious, since they are talking to God.

Anyway, that's a start. I mainly wanted to welcome you to CF. I pray that you are blessed by being here.

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Well just one thing I want to ask you. Don't you think it is very ironic that the only 2 people that were are definitely told went to heaven (Elijah and Moses) are the same 2 people seen at the Transfiguration? Out of all the people who previously existed why these 2? Why not David? Oh here is why:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Moses died but was afterward resurrected and taken to heaven, David was not. David is still dead (sleeping), is he not?

PROPHECYKID said:

Well just one thing I want to ask you. Don't you think it is very ironic that the only 2 people that were are definitely told went to heaven (Elijah and Moses) are the same 2 people seen at the Transfiguration? Out of all the people who previously existed why these 2? Why not David? Oh here is why:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Moses died but was afterward resurrected and taken to heaven, David was not. David is still dead (sleeping), is he not?

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Your argument would be stronger if it were Enoch and Elijah who appeared at the Transfiguration.

"Soul sleep" was a response to not knowing.

Humans, including Christians, unthinkingly thought God was bound by time as humans. From a human standpoint, many years, many millennia might pass between death and the end of time. The idea of a waiting room sort of place was considered and discarded and the only alternative was 'soul sleep'.

God exists in Eternity, not time. God is not limited by time. So when we die, we transfer into Eternity. Our concept of time is meaningless in Eternity.

Obviously, I do not believe in "soul sleep".

Archie the Preacher said:

"Soul sleep" was a response to not knowing.

Humans, including Christians, unthinkingly thought God was bound by time as humans. From a human standpoint, many years, many millennia might pass between death and the end of time. The idea of a waiting room sort of place was considered and discarded and the only alternative was 'soul sleep'.

God exists in Eternity, not time. God is not limited by time. So when we die, we transfer into Eternity. Our concept of time is meaningless in Eternity.

Obviously, I do not believe in "soul sleep".

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Can you offer some scriptural support please? I ask because i am studying, new to accepting a Biblical world view, and trying to shape that view around the Bible, not shaping the bible to my comfort level, which i am prone to doing. I ask this respectfully, as someone who is sincerely trying to decide if this is a path i can commit to and honestly believe. For me, it HAS to come from scripture or i will finangle it to my liking, I've struggled with that for 3 decades of searching to know God I understand that the scriptures certainly let us know GOD is eternal and that He put eternity into our hearts Ecclesiastes 3:11, which is one of our divine qualities, but I do not understand why we should discount what the bible says happens to us in death and call it something else. If all scripture is inspired from God, and it was recorded by those humans that He knew He was Eternal, which IS in the bible - Exodus 3:13-14, Psalms 100:5; Romans 1:20-225; Ephesians 3:10122; 1 Timothy 1:17; 1 Timothy 6:16 - this verse even goes so far as to state that ONLY God is immortal and that no man has seen or CAN see... Revelation 1:8; how can we extrapolate anything other than what is says extensively about death and the resurrection? Again, sincere questions that i would love some scriptural support for, so i can better apply my own studies and come to an accurate conclusion on the matter 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - as one of the most concerning things for me in studying the bible is the complete and utter LACK of unity and application of scripture, which is not only warned against, but makes it very difficult for someone who is searching to know God Philippians 2:1-4 Thank you for your time.

I should point out, one's salvation is not dependent on finding the answer to this. (The entire 3rd Chapter of John's Gospel records a discourse of Jesus outlining the requirements for salvation.)

God is Eternal and dwells in Eternity. Deuteronomy 33:26-29 is a hymn or praise song to God, addressing Him as Eternal. Romans 16:25-27 is the closing of the book, and Paul refers to God again as Eternal.

Colossians 1:15-20 speak about God - Christ - existing prior to and creating "...all things in Heaven and Earth..." Which means God is not subject to time as humans know it.

Those who are saved exist in Eternity. The 3rd Chapter of John discusses this also. 1st John 5:9-13 emphasizes the aspect of Eternal life for believers. Additionally, a multitude of passages speak of being in Eternity. One is an add on to the previous teaching in Matthew 25; Jesus states "the righteous [go] into eternal life".

The Greek word translated 'eternal' means continuous or forever.

In 1st Corinthians 15:50-58 Paul talks about the changing of humans in an instant; from mortals to immortal suitable for Eternity.

I suppose one could argue this means after 'soul sleep' for those who die in Christ before the end of time. However, I find it difficult to believe God treats some one way and some another way, based on when they die. Not that my 'believing' changes how God does things, but I do not find that consistent with His nature.

Also to be considered is the nature of Eternity. Just because today is 15 February 2017 in the Central time zone of the United States does not mean that 'date' has any real meaning in Eternity. Yes, God knows 'our date and time', and also knows 'our date and time' when I was born. When you were born. When I die.

So when I die, God will be waiting for me.

I agree, this isn't specifically spelled out in scripture. Nor is 'soul sleep', by the way. 'Soul sleep' is a conclusion based on various bits of scripture. As is what I suggest.

Archie the Preacher said:

I should point out, one's salvation is not dependent on finding the answer to this. (The entire 3rd Chapter of John's Gospel records a discourse of Jesus outlining the requirements for salvation.)

God is Eternal and dwells in Eternity. Deuteronomy 33:26-29 is a hymn or praise song to God, addressing Him as Eternal. Romans 16:25-27 is the closing of the book, and Paul refers to God again as Eternal.

Colossians 1:15-20 speak about God - Christ - existing prior to and creating "...all things in Heaven and Earth..." Which means God is not subject to time as humans know it.

Those who are saved exist in Eternity. The 3rd Chapter of John discusses this also. 1st John 5:9-13 emphasizes the aspect of Eternal life for believers. Additionally, a multitude of passages speak of being in Eternity. One is an add on to the previous teaching in Matthew 25; Jesus states "the righteous [go] into eternal life".

The Greek word translated 'eternal' means continuous or forever.

In 1st Corinthians 15:50-58 Paul talks about the changing of humans in an instant; from mortals to immortal suitable for Eternity.

I suppose one could argue this means after 'soul sleep' for those who die in Christ before the end of time. However, I find it difficult to believe God treats some one way and some another way, based on when they die. Not that my 'believing' changes how God does things, but I do not find that consistent with His nature.

Also to be considered is the nature of Eternity. Just because today is 15 February 2017 in the Central time zone of the United States does not mean that 'date' has any real meaning in Eternity. Yes, God knows 'our date and time', and also knows 'our date and time' when I was born. When you were born. When I die.

So when I die, God will be waiting for me.

I agree, this isn't specifically spelled out in scripture. Nor is 'soul sleep', by the way. 'Soul sleep' is a conclusion based on various bits of scripture. As is what I suggest.

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Thanks for taking the time to reply, i really do appreciate it. It's interesting that you mention 1 Corinthians Chapter 15, because Paul's words at verses 12-28 seem to give as clear a description of what we (i) should be adhering to as any, and gives context to the verses you cited at 58-60, in that yes - some will never know the first death because it will be after Armageddon, and no one but God knows exactly when that it 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3, but as to what is promised, as you said - God's promises and His nature are ETERNAL, unchanging and consistent. If they weren't, could Abraham have trusted in God enough to offer up HIS son? Hebrews 11:17-18. So - if He tells us in Genesis what Adam and Eve's punishment for damning the ENTIRE human race is - losing out on an immortal and perfect life on what was a perfect creation called earth Genesis 3:21-22 and He also tells us what the consequences of that means right before that at Genesis 3:19, shouldn't we expect our reward and punishment to be the same as what He intended for His original creations? That concept is literally unchanging throughout the entire Bible, reiterated by Paul in those verses at 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and still unchanged in Revelation chapter 21. Paul reasoned on things in an amazing way and if he had wanted anyone to take his words any differently, inspired by God as they were, I have to believe both he and Christ would have been able to do so. This is what he said:

"But tell me this--since we preach that Christ rose from the dead, why are some of you saying there will be no resurrection of the dead? For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your faith is useless. And we apostles would all be lying about God--for we have said that God raised Christ from the grave. But that can't be true if there is no resurrection of the dead. And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins. In that case, all who have died believing in Christ are lost! And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world. But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died. So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man. Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power. For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. " 1 Co 15:12-26 NLT.

Those are Paul's inspired words, not my opinion. They are clear, the seem to spell it out so to speak, and they refute any other interpretation, because he specifically and very effectively reasons on the validity of this religious teaching as coming from God Himself. The argument is effective BECAUSE it is consistent with the unchanging original purpose God intended for us. If God's purpose constantly changed, how could we trust Him? I understand that His METHODS change because of our free will and Satan's influence, but He is GOD, right? That shouldn't change His intended purpose and promise, which even HE struggled with when He flooded the earth and ALMOST broke that promise. But thankfully He didn't give up on us Genesis 8:21-22. In the above passage, Paul even addresses your concerns both about those who died before Christ as well as his inspired assertion that there IS a period of rest or sleep and an actual order to how it would unfold and what the final outcome would be. It seems as though we can choose whether or not we ACCEPT Paul's teaching but can we sincerely say he did not mean what he said? And if he meant what he said, can we insert our own desires and interpretations and still be sincerely following the teachings? At what point do WE become the ones mentioned by Jesus himself at Matthew 7:15-27 or Matthew 15:3-11?

I hate when people say this, but - that passage in 1 Corinthians seems to pretty much sum up the entire bible, from Genesis to Revelation and "I" have to decide what I can or cannot accept. but if i am not understanding it, i WANT to. Thank you for your time