The Lord's Day

Guide To The Bible said:

Dear little non-denominational white puppy. Please read the lineages in your Bible and listen to what gadar perets is saying to you. Judah was the first Jew. From where the land of Judah gets it name and where Jerusalem is located and where all the Jews used to live before they were kicked out by Hadrian in 135 AD. Here is a potted history of the Bible that will help you to understand the lineages and history:
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Maybe you missed post #168. Seems to me he said the first Jew came from one of Noah's son's wives.

gadar perets said:

Are you OK TBL? You don't seem like yourself. You seem either drunk or not in your right mind or joking or perhaps someone is posing as you? I'm not joking or trying to be funny. I am seriously concerned about you.

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I think of Abraham as being very important to us. He is the father of all nations that have faith in God and Yeshua.

You love Abraham because of the land promised to him.

Faith is what saves us, but the value for those here is the land, so maybe you missed half of what makes Abraham so beloved. In anycase, he is the father of all those of faith so he is our patriarch too. God revealed the coming Messiah to him for Jew and Gentile, like it or not.

I know you dislike any idea of a Jew being anything to a gentile, but God did what He did for a reason. God established that faith was what was coming. Maybe you missed it, I didn't. So we must at least share Abraham because he is the father of all those of faith.

I expect you to totally miss that. That is ok, but doesn't change who Abraham is to God.

danny ski said:

Seriously? I mean seriously!? Do you honestly believe that there's a difference between Jew an Hebrew definitions among the descendants of Abraham? Wow! I must ask my parents and grandparents why they lied to me. Thanks for setting me straight.

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You should explore more. Maybe your parents do not even know and maybe they would see that Abraham had Yeshua revealed to him.

ToBeLoved said:

You should explore more. Maybe your parents do not even know and maybe they would see that Abraham had Yeshua revealed to him.

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What??? Why are you in a sub forum that has Judaism in its name? You obviously are anti Torah and anti, pretty much everything, Jewish. What is it that you are trying to accomplish?

ToBeLoved said:

Maybe you missed post #168. Seems to me he said the first Jew came from one of Noah's son's wives.

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Well yes eventually. There were a few generation between them:

Genesis 10:32 These are the clans of Noah’s sons, according to their lines of descent, within their nations. From these the nations spread out over the earth after the flood.

Genesis 11
10This is the account of Shem’s family line. Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old, he became the fatherd of Arphaxad.
11And after he became the father of Arphaxad, Shem lived 500 years and had other sons and daughters.
12When Arphaxad had lived 35 years, he became the father of Shelah.
13And after he became the father of Shelah, Arphaxad lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.
14When Shelah had lived 30 years, he became the father of Eber.
15And after he became the father of Eber, Shelah lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.
16When Eber had lived 34 years, he became the father of Peleg.
17And after he became the father of Peleg, Eber lived 430 years and had other sons and daughters.
18When Peleg had lived 30 years, he became the father of Reu.
19And after he became the father of Reu, Peleg lived 209 years and had other sons and daughters.
20When Reu had lived 32 years, he became the father of Serug.
21And after he became the father of Serug, Reu lived 207 years and had other sons and daughters.
22When Serug had lived 30 years, he became the father of Nahor.
23And after he became the father of Nahor, Serug lived 200 years and had other sons and daughters.
24When Nahor had lived 29 years, he became the father of Terah.
25And after he became the father of Terah, Nahor lived 119 years and had other sons and daughters.
26After Terah had lived 70 years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran.

Guide To The Bible said:

"Eber who was a son of Shem who was a son of Noah."
Well yes eventually. There were a few generation between them:

Genesis 10:32 These are the clans of Noah’s sons, according to their lines of descent, within their nations. From these the nations spread out over the earth after the flood.

Genesis 11
10This is the account of Shem’s family line. Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old, he became the fatherd of Arphaxad.
11And after he became the father of Arphaxad, Shem lived 500 years and had other sons and daughters.
12When Arphaxad had lived 35 years, he became the father of Shelah.
13And after he became the father of Shelah, Arphaxad lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.
14When Shelah had lived 30 years, he became the father of Eber.
15And after he became the father of Eber, Shelah lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.
16When Eber had lived 34 years, he became the father of Peleg.
17And after he became the father of Peleg, Eber lived 430 years and had other sons and daughters.
18When Peleg had lived 30 years, he became the father of Reu.
19And after he became the father of Reu, Peleg lived 209 years and had other sons and daughters.
20When Reu had lived 32 years, he became the father of Serug.
21And after he became the father of Serug, Reu lived 207 years and had other sons and daughters.
22When Serug had lived 30 years, he became the father of Nahor.
23And after he became the father of Nahor, Serug lived 200 years and had other sons and daughters.
24When Nahor had lived 29 years, he became the father of Terah.
25And after he became the father of Terah, Nahor lived 119 years and had other sons and daughters.
26After Terah had lived 70 years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran.

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But Gadar's point is that Noah was not Jewish, so then Noah's son would not be Jewish either. If that is true, then Jewish people came from one of the wives of Noah's sons and she would have started the Jewish race.

ToBeLoved said:

But Gadar's point is that Noah was not Jewish, so then Noah's son would not be Jewish either. If that is true, then Jewish people came from one of the wives of Noah's sons and she would have started the Jewish race.

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The term Jew comes from the name Judah, Jacob's son.

Shem = The first Semite from which we get the term Semitic and Anti-Semitic.
Abraham = The first Hebrew (which means to cross over).
Jacob = AKA Israel and the first Israelite (as named by God and means God prevails).
Judah = The first Jew, from where the term Jew originates.

ToBeLoved said:

Maybe you missed post #168. Seems to me he said the first Jew came from one of Noah's son's wives.

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I said no such thing! I said the Hebrews came from Eber. All Jews are Hebrews, but not all Hebrews are Jews. The Jews come from the tribe of Judah. However, over time all of the children of Israel came to collectively be called Jews.

ToBeLoved said:

I think of Abraham as being very important to us. He is the father of all nations that have faith in God and Yeshua.

You love Abraham because of the land promised to him.

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Wrong. Try reading my posts for a change. I am not a Jew by birth. I love Abraham for many reasons, reasons that you can't even comprehend since you are so against the Almighty's commandments.

In anycase, he is the father of all those of faith so he is our patriarch too.

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In that case, do the works of your father Abraham; keep the commandments.

I know you dislike any idea of a Jew being anything to a gentile, but God did what He did for a reason. God established that faith was what was coming. Maybe you missed it, I didn't. So we must at least share Abraham because he is the father of all those of faith.

I expect you to totally miss that. That is ok, but doesn't change who Abraham is to God.

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I am a Gentile grafted onto the natural olive tree of Israel and live by faith, but maybe you "missed" that.

danny ski said:

Seriously? I mean seriously!? Do you honestly believe that there's a difference between Jew an Hebrew definitions among the descendants of Abraham? Wow! I must ask my parents and grandparents why they lied to me. Thanks for setting me straight.

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Seriously? I mean seriously!? You call yourself a Jew and a Hebrew, but don't even know that Hebrews existed before any Jews ever existed? All Jews are Hebrews, but not all Hebrews are Jews. No need to ask your parents, just read your Tanakh.

ToBeLoved said:

But Gadar's point is that Noah was not Jewish, so then Noah's son would not be Jewish either. If that is true, then Jewish people came from one of the wives of Noah's sons and she would have started the Jewish race.

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The Jews come from Jacob's wives and concubines, NOT from one of the wives of Noah's sons.

CherubRam said:

This passage is about the festivals with there sabbath days. It is not about the Seventh Day Sabbath Rest.

Rom 14:4-5
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

The word "day" is plural. The subject is about different holy days, not the Day of Rest command by God.

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Is this then referring to how some consider the Passover to be of more importance than say Pentecost or the Day of Atonement? While others consider Atonement as the most important?

danstribe said:

Is this then referring to how some consider the Passover to be of more importance than say Pentecost or the Day of Atonement? While others consider Atonement as the most important?

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Passover isn't a Sabbath. Yom Kippur is consider the Sabbath of Sabbaths.

visionary said:

Passover isn't a Sabbath. Yom Kippur is consider the Sabbath of Sabbaths.

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5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. This verse doesn't mention a sabbath day in particular and your answer proves my point as some do not consider the Passover day to be as important as Atonement day others may consider Passover more important than all of them since if we are not covered by the sacrifice of the Passover Lamb of God who is Christ then no other day whether it is a sabbath or not will be of any benefit to any of us.

gadar perets said:

Seriously? I mean seriously!? You call yourself a Jew and a Hebrew, but don't even know that Hebrews existed before any Jews ever existed? All Jews are Hebrews, but not all Hebrews are Jews. No need to ask your parents, just read your Tanakh.

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Perfectly interchangeable designation. As descendants of Abraham we're all Hebrews, as descendants of Judah we're all Jewish. All Jews are descendants of Abraham, hence we are Jews and we're Hebrews. Timing has no bearing on our name. So, we can say we're Hebrews and Abraham was the first Jew. And we can reverse that statement and it will still be correct. Doesn't really matter what the Goyim think or the reasoning they came up with. I know what you're trying to say, but that's a common misconception. Byw, we don't differentiate between converts and born Jews. All of us, claiming the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants, are Hebrews and Jews.

danstribe said:

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. This verse doesn't mention a sabbath day in particular and your answer proves my point as some do not consider the Passover day to be as important as Atonement day others may consider Passover more important than all of them since if we are not covered by the sacrifice of the Passover Lamb of God who is Christ then no other day whether it is a sabbath or not will be of any benefit to any of us.

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We should not read any feast or Sabbaths into this verse. There were other days that people esteemed such as several fast days that were not commanded, Purim, Hanukkah, etc. Paul is not saying we have a choice to observe a commanded holy day or not. They must be observed or it is sin. The other non-commanded days are optional.

danny ski said:

Perfectly interchangeable designation. As descendants of Abraham we're all Hebrews, as descendants of Judah we're all Jewish. All Jews are descendants of Abraham, hence we are Jews and we're Hebrews. Timing has no bearing on our name. So, we can say we're Hebrews and Abraham was the first Jew. And we can reverse that statement and it will still be correct. Doesn't really matter what the Goyim think or the reasoning they came up with. I know what you're trying to say, but that's a common misconception. Byw, we don't differentiate between converts and born Jews. All of us, claiming the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants, are Hebrews and Jews.

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Sorry, but you do not get to make your own definitions. Hebrew and Jew are defined by Scripture alone. Abraham is not a Jew no matter how much you say he is.

gadar perets said:

Sorry, but you do not get to make your own definitions. Hebrew and Jew are defined by Scripture alone. Abraham is not a Jew no matter how much you say he is.

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Funny, the father of ALL Jews is not a Jew. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], we're all bastards!

AyeAyeCaptainJack said:

I really like their siddur and tend to use it than rabbinical counterpart.

But it would be better to exclude ALL non-scriptural additions [which are marked by the ending (K.S.)].

http://ihtys.narod.ru/karaiteprayers.pdf

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Very nice... I read the prayers for Sabbath... I do like them VERY much

Open Heart said:

I don't have the source for it online, but it is recorded in one of the Early church documents. This is an accepted historical fact, vis. No scholar questions it.

Some textual scholars, from studying the style of Ignatius' letters and the style of the Gospel of John, believe that Ignatius wrote John chapter six, collaborating with John.

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I think that is probably wishful thinking. Some try and advocate for a "later" date with the gospel of John. This is in my opinion very, very problematic. First and foremost there is no mention of the siege of Jerusalem or the destruction of the Temple. John 2:19 records Yeshua's prophetic utterance that the pharisee's took to mean the temple.

There are 2 key witnesses that IMO probably fairly conclusively show that John was written some time prior to 70 AD. The most obvious is the fact that there is no mention in the gospels of the destruction of the temple. Since John is one of the gospels that has Yeshua's prophecy of his temple being destroyed and raising it up in three days (John 2:19) This is a fairly strong argument for a pre 70Ad date. Additionally, the mention of the Sheep Gate in John 5:2 in the present tense as still being in existence at the date of writing (meaning prior to its destruction in the late 60s AD)

As more physical evidence is discovered showing ever earlier dates for several books of the new testament. Recent discoveries of fragments from the first century are suggesting that these fragments were written during the lifetime of eye witness of Yeshua. P52 is a fragment of the book of Mark.

Since Ignatius was born in 35 AD it is highly unlikely that he played any role in writing any of the gospels. The very first missionary trip to Antioch occurred in 44 AD and Ignatius would have been 9 years old. While it is certainly POSSIBLE that Ignatius heard the gospel it is equally highly unlikely.

Moreover, all we really know about Ignatius is from his letters. We have no other information about him. There is no record of his life prior to his arrest, but his letters reveal his personality and his impact on the Christianity of his time.

While it is highly probable that Ignatius knew John it is exceptionally doubtful that he played any role in the gospels. To suggest that he did would simply not make any sense since John had first hand, eyewitness testimony regarding Messiah and Ignatius did not.

The scriptural outline for the appointment of a bishop would clearly indicate that Ignatius would not have been a 'young man' when appointed as a bishop this certainly would suggest a date of 70 Ad at the very earliest and more likely some where between 80-100 AD at or near the end of Johns life.