These Conservative Christians Are Opposed to Trump—and Suffering the Consequences

Ringo84

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These Conservative Christians Are Opposed to Trump—and Suffering the Consequences

I find it disturbing how much a lot of modern Christianity has hitched its wagon to a Republican agenda. Jesus didn't come to earth for conservatives, to establish a political dominion here. He came for liberals, conservatives, Trump voters, Hillary voters, Socialists, Communists, and everyone in between. Associating Christianity with any political party weakens the church and takes it off message.

It's no wonder that so many young people in the 18-25 bracket are falling away from the church in the 21st century. They see the church as a Republicans only club, full of condemnation for The Other (homosexuals, liberals, Transgendered, etc) and very short on any kind of the love that Christians are supposed to have towards their neighbor. Shame on the organizations mentioned in this column that shun others for having different views, whatever those views may be.
Ringo
 

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These Conservative Christians Are Opposed to Trump—and Suffering the Consequences

I find it disturbing how much a lot of modern Christianity has hitched its wagon to a Republican agenda. Jesus didn't come to earth for conservatives, to establish a political dominion here. He came for liberals, conservatives, Trump voters, Hillary voters, Socialists, Communists, and everyone in between. Associating Christianity with any political party weakens the church and takes it off message.

It's no wonder that so many young people in the 18-25 bracket are falling away from the church in the 21st century. They see the church as a Republicans only club, full of condemnation for The Other (homosexuals, liberals, Transgendered, etc) and very short on any kind of the love that Christians are supposed to have towards their neighbor. Shame on the organizations mentioned in this column that shun others for having different views, whatever those views may be.
Ringo
i'd bet with just a little searching, you'd find Christians who support Trump --and Suffering the Consequences.

i also suspect you'd find Christians completely indifferent to Trump, --and Suffering the Consequences.

This is familiar. It sounds much like Stalin's maxim that "One Death is a Tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic." He did have a way with words. However i don't know that i'd be interested in adopting his methods.
 
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Ringo84

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i'd bet with just a little searching, you'd find Christians who support Trump --and Suffering the Consequences.

i also suspect you'd find Christians completely indifferent to Trump, --and Suffering the Consequences.

This is familiar. It sounds much like Stalin's maxim that "One Death is a Tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic." He did have a way with words. However i don't know that i'd be interested in adopting his methods.

Regardless of how many people are experiencing this phenomenon, the point is that nobody should be shunned because of their political beliefs.
Ringo
 
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Leevo

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These Conservative Christians Are Opposed to Trump—and Suffering the Consequences

I find it disturbing how much a lot of modern Christianity has hitched its wagon to a Republican agenda. Jesus didn't come to earth for conservatives, to establish a political dominion here. He came for liberals, conservatives, Trump voters, Hillary voters, Socialists, Communists, and everyone in between. Associating Christianity with any political party weakens the church and takes it off message.

It's no wonder that so many young people in the 18-25 bracket are falling away from the church in the 21st century. They see the church as a Republicans only club, full of condemnation for The Other (homosexuals, liberals, Transgendered, etc) and very short on any kind of the love that Christians are supposed to have towards their neighbor. Shame on the organizations mentioned in this column that shun others for having different views, whatever those views may be.
Ringo

The world hates the truth. Tell someone homosexuality or transgenderism is a sin, and you are a hate filled bigot. The church is about repentance, but in order to repent you must realize you are a sinner. Pay close attention to all the liberal churches that are closing in today's world. Conservative ones are growing.

Christianity is typically associated with the Republican Party because most of the Republican Party tend to hold to conservative Christian values. The Democratic Party on the other hand tend to oppose them, for example they tend to agree with abortion being legal.
 
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Calvinist Dark Lord

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Regardless of how many people are experiencing this phenomenon, the point is that nobody should be shunned because of their political beliefs.
Ringo
i disagree.

i believe that the point is that somebody wants to blame Donald Trump for every evil in the world since it became apparent that he was going to win the Republican Nomination.

i expect that he will be shortly blamed for "climate change" next.
 
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Ringo84

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The world hates the truth. Tell someone homosexuality or transgenderism is a sin, and you are a hate filled bigot. The church is about repentance, but in order to repent you must realize you are a sinner. Pay close attention to all the liberal churches that are closing in today's world. Conservative ones are growing.

Christianity is typically associated with the Republican Party because most of the Republican Party tend to hold to conservative Christian values. The Democratic Party on the other hand tend to oppose them, for example they tend to agree with abortion being legal.

Christianity is associated with the Republican party because a lot of Christians have sold out for political power. It's given them the power they want, but it's turned the church's focus from helping the poor and reaching the world for Christ and to a political agenda. That seems like an epitome of "gaining the world and losing your soul" to me, and the organizations mentioned like modern examples of Pharisees: unimpeachable on all the rules and regulations while missing the point entirely.
Ringo
 
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Leevo

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Christianity is associated with the Republican party because a lot of Christians have sold out for political power. It's given them the power they want, but it's turned the church's focus from helping the poor and reaching the world for Christ and to a political agenda. That seems like an epitome of "gaining the world and losing your soul" to me, and the organizations mentioned like modern examples of Pharisees: unimpeachable on all the rules and regulations while missing the point entirely.
Ringo

Do you have any evidence for these claims or is it just your opinion? I certainly don't see that in any churches around me. The point isn't "rules" the point is sin. Christ died for sinners, true 100%. HOWEVER, if someone is a homosexual and refuses to repent but says they believe in Christ, then their salvation is in serious doubt. What did Christ say to the adulterous woman? "Go and sin no more."

The idea that we need to make Christianity lovey dovey to appease the world is ridiculous.
 
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Ringo84

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The idea that we need to make Christianity lovey dovey to appease the world is ridiculous.

That's not what I'm saying. I see the problem with a lot of American Christianity as the following:

1. Overemphasis of "flavor of the month" sins like homosexuality. There are many more pressing concerns in today's world than who sleeps with whom. I'm not saying that churches should ignore homosexuality, necessarily, but it shouldn't be the number one concern of Christianity.
2. Aligning itself too much with worldly politics. Jesus didn't come to earth to be a politician. That's not Christianity's purpose. Aligning itself too much with any 'worldly' political party only weakens the church and its message
3. Too much rebuke and not enough love.
4. Too much division and not enough unity. Jesus didn't die "only" for Republicans and/or conservatives. He died for everyone. The message of Christianity should be for everyone, and nobody should be excluded because their politics don't match with so-called "conservative Christian values". You don't have to be a Christian or a conservative to have values.
Ringo
 
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Leevo

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That's not what I'm saying. I see the problem with a lot of American Christianity as the following:

1. Overemphasis of "flavor of the month" sins like homosexuality. There are many more pressing concerns in today's world than who sleeps with whom. I'm not saying that churches should ignore homosexuality, necessarily, but it shouldn't be the number one concern of Christianity.

It isn't "flavor of the month" sins. It is what is the most pressing issue today in the world that is trying to force itself even on the church. Something that is sin, is being celebrated worldwide.

Premarital sex, is condemned. Lying, stealing, etc. all condemned. None of these are fighting for "acceptance" in the church. Homosexuality is which is why it seems to be the most target. Also because it is a repetitive sin that people who practice it refuse to repent of.

2. Aligning itself too much with worldly politics. Jesus didn't come to earth to be a politician. That's not Christianity's purpose. Aligning itself too much with any 'worldly' political party only weakens the church and its message

Again, besides your claims, I haven't seen a shred of evidence for this. Sure, outspoken pastors express their opinions but that far from represents Christianity as a whole.


3. Too much rebuke and not enough love.

Rebuke is the wrong word here I think. When you warn someone, especially those of the liberal persuasion, that they are in sin, what do they tend to say? "Don't judge me!" They rarely if ever actually listen to what you would have to say because if they did, they would get to the love part. Today, love gets misconstrued as acceptance.


4. Too much division and not enough unity. Jesus didn't die "only" for Republicans and/or conservatives. He died for everyone. The message of Christianity should be for everyone, and nobody should be excluded because their politics don't match with so-called "conservative Christian values". You don't have to be a Christian or a conservative to have values.
Ringo

Nobody is claiming he died for only Republicans. You don't have to be of a specific political party to come to Christ. Those in the Democratic party just tend to be the ones who disagree with orthodox Christianity. Again, I use abortion as the example. Those in the Republican party tend to believe it is murder and should be abolished. Those in the Democratic party, view it as acceptable and a form of "choice" when murder is not a choice.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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2. Aligning itself too much with worldly politics.

That is the only way this prophecy will be fulfilled
Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
 
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Ringo84

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It isn't "flavor of the month" sins. It is what is the most pressing issue today in the world that is trying to force itself even on the church. Something that is sin, is being celebrated worldwide.

Premarital sex, is condemned. Lying, stealing, etc. all condemned. None of these are fighting for "acceptance" in the church. Homosexuality is which is why it seems to be the most target. Also because it is a repetitive sin that people who practice it refuse to repent of.



Again, besides your claims, I haven't seen a shred of evidence for this. Sure, outspoken pastors express their opinions but that far from represents Christianity as a whole.




Rebuke is the wrong word here I think. When you warn someone, especially those of the liberal persuasion, that they are in sin, what do they tend to say? "Don't judge me!" They rarely if ever actually listen to what you would have to say because if they did, they would get to the love part. Today, love gets misconstrued as acceptance.




Nobody is claiming he died for only Republicans. You don't have to be of a specific political party to come to Christ. Those in the Democratic party just tend to be the ones who disagree with orthodox Christianity. Again, I use abortion as the example. Those in the Republican party tend to believe it is murder and should be abolished. Those in the Democratic party, view it as acceptable and a form of "choice" when murder is not a choice.

I don't intend to get sidetracked into a debate about homosexuality or premarital sex. The bottom line is that Christianity doesn't belong to conservatives, and that it shouldn't be a Republicans only club. If we say that God's grace is open to everyone, then the church should be open to everyone also. Nobody should be excluded or silenced because they don't toe a particular political line.
Ringo
 
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Ringo84

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Was the thread title a typo?

I copied it straight from the Atlantic website, so it shouldn't be. But I have a Chrome extension that might have inadvertently changed one of the words. Let me know if that's the case and I'll change it.
Ringo
 
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1. Overemphasis of "flavor of the month" sins like homosexuality. There are many more pressing concerns in today's world than who sleeps with whom. I'm not saying that churches should ignore homosexuality, necessarily, but it shouldn't be the number one concern of Christianity.
Homosexuality as a general topic was mainly pushed by theological liberals, not conservatives. Conservatives simply accepted that homosexual lust and behavior was sinful as the Bible states, and mostly didn't make noise about it. Liberals on the other hand, relentlessly brought it up to challenge what the Bible says on the matter. Conservatives simply answered them. Again. And again. Ad nauseum.

2. Aligning itself too much with worldly politics. Jesus didn't come to earth to be a politician. That's not Christianity's purpose. Aligning itself too much with any 'worldly' political party only weakens the church and its message
Christians on the left are equally guilty. They will judge your very conscience and morality if you deign to believe that right-wing solutions to political problems can be morally permissible.

3. Too much rebuke and not enough love.
I have seen this too. Too few Christians practice James 1:19-20. I try to be a good example.

4. Too much division and not enough unity. Jesus didn't die "only" for Republicans and/or conservatives. He died for everyone. The message of Christianity should be for everyone, and nobody should be excluded because their politics don't match with so-called "conservative Christian values". You don't have to be a Christian or a conservative to have values.
Fortunately, my church puts Christ before politics.
 
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If we say that God's grace is open to everyone, then the church should be open to everyone also. Nobody should be excluded or silenced because they don't toe a particular political line.
Ringo
If this family were representative of a real problem in our society, I'd probably be alarmed as well. But it's easy to find an 'exception to the rule' and then talk as though it's the norm.

That may account for why hardly anyone has taken up your call in two days...in case you're disappointed and wondering. Yes, we agree that people should not be excluded from church on account of who they voted for. And yes, we know better than to think there's a story here, even if The Atlantic thinks it will sell well with its brand of readers.
 
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Ringo84

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Albion said:
Yes, we agree that people should not be excluded from church on account of who they voted for.

Regardless of whether you think "there's a story here" or not, this is really all I wanted: an acknowledgment that exclusion shouldn't happen in a religion that prides itself on inclusion.

durangodawood said:
Is that what they were: hypercorrect on matters of law?

I interpret the Pharisees more as people who were impeccably correct on following the letter of the law but missing the spirit of it: that it's not about being fundamentalist about rules and regulations but about showing love and concern for other people.
Ringo
 
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grasping the after wind

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Regardless of how many people are experiencing this phenomenon, the point is that nobody should be shunned because of their political beliefs.
Ringo

I got to disagree with this somewhat. I do not know about shunning but I would be very likely to vehemently oppose Nazis for their political beliefs as I would even simple Eugenicists and Communists or any one that espoused any form of a totalitarian system. Add to that Theocracy( which can be a particularly odorous form of totalitarianism) a political belief system that I would not feel the least guilty for verbally lambasting anyone that espoused it. So I believe it is warranted to call out and verbally castigate people that hold political positions that I consider to be totally abhorrent. Such behavior toward people that merely have a different POV than my own and propose different solutions even solutions that I think will not only not work but make matters worse is not acceptable IMO.
 
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Albion

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Regardless of whether you think "there's a story here" or not, this is really all I wanted: an acknowledgment that exclusion shouldn't happen in a religion that prides itself on inclusion.
Well, of course, it should not. The apparent outrage over what was reported in that story, however, coupled with the attempt to make it seem widespread or even characteristic of the religion seems "a bit much," that's all.
 
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Ringo84

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Well, of course, it should not. The apparent outrage over what was reported in that story, however, coupled with the attempt to make it seem widespread or even characteristic of the religion seems "a bit much," that's all.
Well, it might not be. But I thought it was worth a discussion.
Ringo
 
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