Why did God create a seemingly competitor for himself?

Skylos · Feb 11, 2017

Excellent and interesting replies. I love seeing dynamic views here when big questions arise.

I don't believe God is naïve of His creation, including Lucifer. He did not create Hell on a whim because someone chose to sin.

The Scientist of the Eternal Pinecone · Feb 11, 2017

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44

RaymondG · Feb 11, 2017

Fishsack said:
I literarilly had swallow the gulp in the back of my throat after reading your reply. Woh dude, LOL... look around you, Evil is everywhere, how can you not see it? I mean to say Evil doesn't exist is to say exactly this "we cook food but we dont use fire/heat" and to say the devil isn't real is to say exactly this "bible isn't real, neither is christianity, neither is the prophets of renown, neither is Jesus, neither is his suffering, and what about prophesies of revelation that lines up with the events that are occuring today, well heck no, that aint real either" ......................then I say to you, how do you know your God and trust in him if you deny the simple things that are infront of you. simple as in O....M....G....

brother.......wake up.

Be careful not the choke when swallowing those gulps. Everything in the bible is 100% true. It is our interpretation of it that is mostly wrong. Which is understandable since we Lean to our own understand (which the bible states not to), do to man for wisdom(when the bible says to go to Him), and we usually believe whatever we were told growing up and assume it is the truth and everyone else is a liar. The word should also me spiritually discerned, but most are yet incapable of seeing past the natural. So pigs really know how to build houses... and when the winds are at high speeds, I look out my window and check for wolves

One good thing i see from your post is that you arent blindly believing and you are questioning. I hope you do the same for everything you were taught and believe, but never tried to know.

Listen Eve, Im not falling for it twice. You cant convince me that the knowledge of good and evil and better than my current state of seeing only good. If you enjoy the Devil and Evil and the taste of his fruit....you are free to continue your lunch together, but please stop trying to invite me..... Wake up indeed.

Theo Book · Feb 11, 2017

Skylos said:
Grammar Nazis aside, you understand my question: Satan.

My faith covers all of the questions that won't ever be answered in this life. But the questions still remain as long as I'm given the gift to ask them.

Why does God want the jealousy?

Because God was the first to know He learns more from adversity than from agreement. Before creation, There was only God. God can only know. He cannot teach experience apart from experiencing. So, He created every type and circumstance He could conceive of short of experiencing.

Serving Zion · Feb 11, 2017

Skylos said:
Why does God want the jealousy?

Hello, can you please provide evidence for this allegation?

RaymondG · Feb 11, 2017

Serving Zion said:
Hello, can you please provide evidence for this allegation?

Exodus 20:5 Deuteronomy 5:9...etc..

I think the point is God created the "devil" and then gets jealous if you worship other Gods.

Serving Zion · Feb 11, 2017

RaymondG said:
I don't believe God created evil. Evil is a lie. The devil is a lie. It is just the absence of good.

Hmmm, I just opened the bible to a random verse (Hosea 11:2) and saw that the evil in that case was in fact a positive action to do wrong.

If we take away all the bad, then all that remains must be good. Likewise, if we take away all the good, then what can possibly remain?

Serving Zion · Feb 11, 2017

RaymondG said:
Exodus 20:5 Deuteronomy 5:9...etc..

I think the point is God created the "devil" and then gets jealous if you worship other Gods.

When I look at Genesis 3:13-14, I do not see any indication at all, that God created the devil because He wanted humans to worship him. I am just wondering how this idea might have caught hold in you..

Effie · Feb 11, 2017

Can I suggest something? It's not something I've thought about and this specific question hasn't come up for me but similar ones have so I appreciate your asking. I know that we know so little of God but yet I love the questioning and pushing our minds to try and know Him more!

So could it be that because God knows of good and evil that because we are created in His image that we too do since the fruit was eaten? The tree was the tree of knowledge, His knowledge. Without Eve eating the fruit we could have lived in oblivion, but we don't so now we live in a place of knowing the way He does?

Like I said this just popped into my head so it's not a well thought out or scripture based answer!

CrystalDragon · Feb 11, 2017

Skylos said:
QFT. Very good question. Reversely, whom does God know we are?...only He does. Whom knows the bounds of God's Word?...only He.

He's not afraid of our questions for He holds all truths. I have an intimate relationship with Christ, in which I'm so thankful for, and hold my own questions subjectively. So why not ask?

Does our reason run out? Absolutely. Do we know the limit of our reason? It might depend how many times you knock.

If you have an intimate relationship with Christ, could you maybe do us all a favor and give us the answers to the big questions?

FatalHeart · Feb 11, 2017

I have an interesting theory. It says, "You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'" Ok. Assume this is actually what he says, that this actually applies to a fallen angel, later to be known as the devil. We know there is a chief one anyway because of revelations when it talks about, "You have killed your people," and, of course, "The dragon." Anyway, what's wrong with wanting to be like God? Nothing. I know how the inflection is, it may very well just be a statement of pride, but... And that's why it is just a theory... But... Perhaps what is wrong with his thinking isn't, "like the most High," but the, "I will make myself." What's his lie to Eve? "You will be like the most High." Disobeying God to be like God. How about trying to be like God through your own means? Same thing. In fact, if you think about it, could it also be the first rejection of Christ? How many people try to earn salvation from God instead of accepting what He has freely given? "I don't need Jesus. I will do this myself; I will make myself like the most High."

Talihood · Feb 11, 2017

ultimately, i think of Satan as God's assistant.

jamespyles · Feb 11, 2017

Skylos said:
Grammar Nazis aside, you understand my question: Satan.

My faith covers all of the questions that won't ever be answered in this life. But the questions still remain as long as I'm given the gift to ask them.

Why does God want the jealousy?

I know there is an Adversary (that's what HaSatan) means in English, but as I understand human nature, we don't need much to operate at our lowest level as a species.

RaymondG · Feb 11, 2017

Serving Zion said:
When I look at Genesis 3:13-14, I do not see any indication at all, that God created the devil because He wanted humans to worship him. I am just wondering how this idea might have caught hold in you..

This is not my idea, I was showing you the verses that i believed the OP was referring to.

motsog · Feb 11, 2017

We don't have all the answers...yet. It appears from the scriptures that God wants us to learn to trust Him and walk by faith for now.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

thesunisout · Feb 11, 2017

When God was done creating, He said it was very good. Evil is obviously not very good. The evil came into the creation through the wrong choices of His creatures.

rockytopva · Feb 11, 2017

Before the Big Bang - There dwelt...

1. The God head - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
2. Three groups of angels...
___a. Michael - Strong Angels
___b. Gabriel - Wise Angels
___c. Lucifer - Worshiping angels
3. There may have been others, but the bible does not give the account.

I believe that the creation of this universe is in response to Lucifer's fall.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:- Isaiah 14:12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! - Isaiah 14:12

Lucifer - heylel in the Hebrew (light bearer) from halal - Or to shine
***Note as this is a Hebrew word it is not a king of Babylon... A king of Babylon would not have a Hebrew name!

Lucifer and his third are competitors for man, but not for God.

Skylos · Feb 11, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
If you have an intimate relationship with Christ, could you maybe do us all a favor and give us the answers to the big questions?

Intimacy on earth is only a scratch on the surface.

CrystalDragon · Feb 11, 2017

thesunisout said:
When God was done creating, He said it was very good. Evil is obviously not very good. The evil came into the creation through the wrong choices of His creatures.

"Good" is not "perfect".

rockytopva said:
Before the Big Bang - There dwelt...

1. The God head - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
2. Three groups of angels...
___a. Michael - Strong Angels
___b. Gabriel - Wise Angels
___c. Lucifer - Worshiping angels
3. There may have been others, but the bible does not give the account.

I believe that the creation of this universe is in response to Lucifer's fall.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:- Isaiah 14:12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! - Isaiah 14:12

Lucifer - heylel in the Hebrew (light bearer) from halal - Or to shine
***Note as this is a Hebrew word it is not a king of Babylon... A king of Babylon would not have a Hebrew name!

Lucifer and his third are competitors for man, but not for God.

*sigh* Do I have bring up WHY Lucifer was used for a Babylonian king, not Satan again? I hate that misconception being spread around.

Skylos said:
Intimacy on earth is only a scratch on the surface.

True, but if there's no intimacy whatsoever and no real communication then you can't call that a relationship. Just one-sided communication that never gets a response.

John Hyperspace · Feb 11, 2017

Skylos said:
Grammar Nazis aside, you understand my question: Satan.

My faith covers all of the questions that won't ever be answered in this life. But the questions still remain as long as I'm given the gift to ask them.

Why does God want the jealousy?

Revelation 4:11 shows that all things were created for the will of God. The role of all "satans" is to reveal the glory of God in righteous submission to the will of God by endurance of trial of faith. The book of Job is foremost in illustrating this.

Why did God create a seemingly competitor for himself?

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