Head of the Household

teresa

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As a woman, I have had the experience of being told that I was not being counted as being the head of my own household because I was a single woman.

I was told that only if I was married, would the head of my household, my husband, be allowed to vote in church matters.

But when I was paying my rent and utility bills, buying and preparing my own meals, caring for my pet, my neighbors and my building/dwelling, I was somehow, not the head of the house.

It hurt me deeply to discover that the church I was invested in felt that I was not able to vote or be heard, yet the money I earned was good enough for them, and yes, please do give even more of it to them.

I was more than happy to support the church in any way possible, be it with my time, my talent or my money.

But in my specific case, discussion about, and voting on, how the money for the church budget was to be allocated was not allowed.

My take away was that I'm only someone if I'm with a man.

Anyone else ever feel silenced, voiceless or dismissed because of being a woman?
 
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Sabertooth

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Are you in America? What kind of church?

"Head of household" doesn't necessarily agree (or have to) between church and state, though it seems a bit anachronistic to me.

Are you getting Spiritually fed there, otherwise? (I would keep that in mind, if you consider moving to another church.)
 
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Paidiske

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Anyone else ever feel silenced, voiceless or dismissed because of being a woman?

I have quite a few stories, but I think my "favourite" was from the Sunday after I got back from my honeymoon.

My husband and I belonged to different churches (as it happens, in the same suburb) and neither of us wanted to join the other's church. On my first day back in church after being married, the vicar bailed me up at the door on the way out and said,

"I realise we may lose you, Paidiske, but now that you're married, you need to be worshipping under your husband's headship."

Well, they lost me... to a church which didn't say such things!
 
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teresa

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now that you're married, you need to be worshipping under your husband's headship."

I'm sorry you were advised that how you want to worship is dismissed, as if your fellowship there was of no importance.

Paidiski, and what of me now, who is widowed?

I'm thinking that if the church is losing members, then will they continue to dismiss single women, divorced women and widowed women?
 
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Paidiske

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Well, that was the thing that stung. It's not as if he sat down and asked me what I felt I needed, what my husband needed, tried to help us think through what might work for both of us, or anything. Just basically telling me to go away!

And yes, the church is lousy at dealing with people who don't fit neat little idealistic boxes. Drives me nuts.
 
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teresa

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Well, that was the thing that stung. It's not as if he sat down and asked me what I felt I needed, what my husband needed, tried to help us think through what might work for both of us, or anything. Just basically telling me to go away!

And yes, the church is lousy at dealing with people who don't fit neat little idealistic boxes. Drives me nuts.

Yes, I don't understand the sentiment.

Maybe I should have withheld tithing on the argument that I didn't matter-yet. That until I was married I wasn't anyone to them.
 
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WolfGate

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Honestly, if someone in your shoes asked me if they should withhold tithing from that particular church, I might have recommended it. If your family has no voice in the church, then I am inclined to say they don't really see you as a member of the church. If for whatever reason you wished to still fellowship with them, no worries, but finding another place to give God the tithe would be an option. If that path was taking, I would tell them what was happening and why.
 
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teresa

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If your family has no voice in the church, then I am inclined to say they don't really see you as a member of the church.

Thank you for your response.

If I had children at the time, would not I have had a voice on where to spend money when it came to children's activities?

So take my money, but not my ideas or suggestions?
 
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tansy

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Hope this is not off topic but it is kind of related to the OP.
Years ago I read a book or two about John Wesley. Very interesting. But anyhow, his mother sounded like a very strong-minded and principled woman. She was married to a church minister and once her husband was away for quite a long time, (can't remember why). So a lot of the local men came to her and asked her if she could give them Bible instruction, but to begin with, she refused,as she felt as a woman she ought not to do this (I'm sure in those days, it was very much felt that only men could teach etc). Perhaps she also felt she shouldn't usurp her husband's position, but I can't now remember the exact reasons she gave.
But the men insisted and persuaded her to give instruction or Bible studies...and she could see their need and desire, so did so, though I think with a little misgiving. I think they must have seen that she was capable of doing that and didn't mind a woman 'being in charge', at least for that particular activity.
 
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I got married in 1970. In 1973, we bought a house. Our incomes were about $1,000 per year apart (his being higher). The lawyer said to me, "No bank will count your income, because you will have a baby and quit your job." I was flabbergasted.

At some point I DID have children and was out of the workforce for a number of years (I was fortunate that my husband had done very well at his company and I didn't need to work). My husband asked me to go around looking at cars (circa 1978) and making note of the ones I liked so we could check them out together (I have always been a much savvier shopper than he is.) The salesman in Roslyn, NY (tony NY suburb) told me, "Come back with your husband and I'll show you a car...." So I said, "We're crossing you off our list---we'll take our business where we're respected."

I know things have changed since then---to an extent. One reason is because MEN made these arbitrary rules, and now that women are in management in banks and car dealerships they're realizing how unfair they were.
 
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Dave-W

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And yes, the church is lousy at dealing with people who don't fit neat little idealistic boxes. Drives me nuts.
Indeed. 2 years ago my wife and I left a congregation where I was on the track into congregational leadership over just this matter. I was a home group leader and one member who attended my home group ran into a problem with a person who was a close friend of one of the sr pastor's adult children (not yet a member of the congregation) that took severe advantage of the member's immaturity. The member in my home group was just brand new into the faith and the other person had been a believer for probably 30 years or more. It ended up the member was told to leave the congregation and was told by the sr leader that he had no idea how to pastor the new believer. I was told to let them go. (after this the new person was given membership) So my wife and I left. (along with a few other strange issues that are irrelevant here)

I know much of it had to do with the member being a new believer and a middle age single woman. The pastor had no clue how to handle that. He admitted as much to her, saying that he had no idea how to pastor her.

In a meeting with the pastor and the elder board several months after all that, I charged the entire lot of them (some of them had been long time friends) of dereliction of duty and incompetence in dealing with the issues of the congregation.
 
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Dave-W

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Hope this is not off topic but it is kind of related to the OP.
Years ago I read a book or two about John Wesley. Very interesting. But anyhow, his mother sounded like a very strong-minded and principled woman. She was married to a church minister and once her husband was away for quite a long time, (can't remember why). So a lot of the local men came to her and asked her if she could give them Bible instruction, but to begin with, she refused,as she felt as a woman she ought not to do this (I'm sure in those days, it was very much felt that only men could teach etc). Perhaps she also felt she shouldn't usurp her husband's position, but I can't now remember the exact reasons she gave.
But the men insisted and persuaded her to give instruction or Bible studies...and she could see their need and desire, so did so, though I think with a little misgiving. I think they must have seen that she was capable of doing that and didn't mind a woman 'being in charge', at least for that particular activity.
Indeed. Churches from the Wesleyan tradition were among the first to start ordaining women as pastors in the 1800s. That story about Wesley's mother was a big influence in that decision.

Here is a bit on women in ministry from the Wesleyan denom website -the same denomination that my dad was ordained in. (he was the exact opposite of this, believing women were only there to be slaves to their husbands)

Women in Ministry Historical View | The Wesleyan Church

From its beginnings, The Wesleyan Church has championed the equality of women both in society and in God’s redemptive plan for mankind. In July of 1848, the first Women’s Rights Convention was held in Seneca Falls, NY at the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel.

In 1853, Rev. Luther Lee ordained Miss Antoinette Brown, a Congregationalist believed to be the first woman ever ordained in the modern era. Rev. Lee, not failing to recognize this historical event, stated in his introduction, “The ordination of a female, or the setting apart of a female to the work of the Christian ministry, is, to say the least, a novel transaction, in this land and age. It cannot fail to call forth many remarks, and will, no doubt, provoke many censures. As I have been called upon to deliver the discourse on the occasion, I should deem it out of place, tame and cowardly, for me to deliver an ordinary sermon setting forth the duties and responsibilities of a Christian minister, without taking hold of the peculiarity of the occasion, and vindicating the innovation which we this hour make upon the usages of the Christian World.”A Woman’s Right to Preach the Gospel ,” was based on the Scripture verse: There is neither male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28 (KJV).
 
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Dave-W

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tansy

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I got married in 1970. In 1973, we bought a house. Our incomes were about $1,000 per year apart (his being higher). The lawyer said to me, "No bank will count your income, because you will have a baby and quit your job." I was flabbergasted.

At some point I DID have children and was out of the workforce for a number of years (I was fortunate that my husband had done very well at his company and I didn't need to work). My husband asked me to go around looking at cars (circa 1978) and making note of the ones I liked so we could check them out together (I have always been a much savvier shopper than he is.) The salesman in Roslyn, NY (tony NY suburb) told me, "Come back with your husband and I'll show you a car...." So I said, "We're crossing you off our list---we'll take our business where we're respected."

I know things have changed since then---to an extent. One reason is because MEN made these arbitrary rules, and now that women are in management in banks and car dealerships they're realizing how unfair they were.

Unbelievable :(
 
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tansy

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Indeed. Churches from the Wesleyan tradition were among the first to start ordaining women as pastors in the 1800s. That story about Wesley's mother was a big influence in that decision.

Here is a bit on women in ministry from the Wesleyan denom website -the same denomination that my dad was ordained in. (he was the exact opposite of this, believing women were only there to be slaves to their husbands)

Women in Ministry Historical View | The Wesleyan Church

Yes, it's amazing what some women have achieved...like the article you posted said, they have often gone into dangerous situations, where perhaps others wouldn't go :). (Not that men haven't also gone into dangerous situaions as well, I hasten to add :) )
 
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tansy

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"That story about Wesley's mother was a big influence in that decision."

He obviously revered his mother more than the Bible.

"he was the exact opposite of this, believing women were only there to be slaves to their husbands"

Of course he was wrong. The woman/wife is the follower, the first officer, the vice president of the household --- not a slave.

Wher did you get that idea from? That he revered his mother more than the Bible? It would seem that his mother had very strong convictions and tried to bring her children up in a Godly way and so forth. She obviously had a strong influence on him. But as far as I can see he went by the Bible
 
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David B.

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How do Egalitarians interpret "head of the household"? Does it simply mean being able to have the final say in matters regarding a family? Being able to take a part in "church voting" as members? or is the phrase associated with a status with regard to one's relationship with God?
 
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Unbelievable :(

I have no trouble believing it. Even in the early 1990s, when I was working in the high technology world (semiconductor microelectronics), I was told by a manager that male engineers were typically paid more because they needed it. Reason for that? Many of their wives either stayed home or had lower paying stereotypical female jobs like teachers. The women engineers, on the other hand, had husbands who also had good paying jobs. Plus, the women were likely to leave anyway to raise kids, so it was no loss if one left for a better paying job, but we needed to retain the male engineers.
 
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