Apocalypse

BABerean2 said in post 35:

You cannot admit that those present on the Day of Pentecost were Israelites.

Click to expand...

You are correct to say that they were. For Jews include individuals from tribes of Israel other than Judah. For Paul is truly a Jew (Acts 22:3), and he is of the tribe of Benjamin (Romans 11:1). Indeed, Jews include individuals from all twelve of Israel's tribes, for there are no lost tribes, insofar as the ten northern tribes were not entirely lost to history. In 722 BC, the northern kingdom of Israel fell and its individuals were taken into captivity into Assyria (2 Kings 18:11), never to return to the land of Israel. They and their descendants were lost to history. But the ten northern tribes in themselves were not lost to history.

For some two hundred years before the captivity of the northern kingdom, when it first become idolatrous some individuals from all ten of the northern tribes left the northern kingdom to become part of the southern kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles 11:16-17), and so by definition they all became Jews. Also, some individuals from the ten northern tribes remained in the land of Israel even after its defeat by Assyria, and some of them went to Judah at the time of Hezekiah (2 Chronicles 30). It is for these reasons that later the Jews who returned from the Babylonian Captivity could be referred to as "all Israel" (Ezra 2:70, Ezra 6:17, Ezra 8:25,35, Ezra 10:5, Nehemiah 7:73, Nehemiah 12:47), and why the Jews living in the first century AD could be referred to as including all twelve tribes (Acts 26:7, James 1:1, Acts 2:36,22,5), and why at that time Anna could be said to be of the northern tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), one of the so-called "lost" tribes.

So the people alive today who are descended genetically from a first century AD Jew would include individuals from all twelve tribes. Some of these descendants could know that they are Jews because their individual ancestors over the last two thousand years kept their Jewish identity and did not intermarry with Gentiles. But others of these descendants could know themselves only as Gentiles because their individual ancestors over the last two thousand years eventually abandoned their Jewish identity, and intermarried freely with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today are almost entirely Gentile genetically. Similarly, regarding the individuals of the northern kingdom of Israel who were lost to history at its captivity: over the past 2,700 years, their descendants must have eventually abandoned their Israelite identity and freely intermarried with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today would know themselves only as Gentiles, and would be almost entirely Gentile genetically.

Also, while God knows which people alive today are descended from one of the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel from whom the twelve genetic tribes arose (Genesis 49:28), nonelect Israelites/Jews are not considered by God to be truly Israel (Romans 9:6-11) or truly Jews (Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9), or God's children or Abraham's children, but the children of the devil (John 8:39-47), just as all of the nonelect, no matter whether they are Jews or Gentiles, are considered by God to be the children of the devil (Matthew 13:38-39).

Some genetic Israelites are believers, and so are members of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6) and Israel at the same time, just as, for example, the genetic Jew Paul the apostle (Acts 22:3) is a member of the church and Israel at the same time (Romans 11:1). And some still-living, unbelieving genetic Israelites are still considered by God to be Israel insofar as they are elect (Romans 11:25,28). All of the still-living, elect, unbelieving genetic Israelites who do not become believers before Jesus' second coming will become believers (and so will become members of the church: cf. Ephesians 4:4-6) at the second coming (Romans 11:26), when they will see the returned Jesus in person (Zechariah 12:10-14). But even though all those still-living, elect, genetic Israelites will eventually become believers and be saved, they will be only a remnant of all genetic Israelites (Romans 9:27), most of whom will never be saved, just as most of humanity in general, both Jews and Gentiles, will never be saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).

*******

BABerean2 said in post 38:

Revelation chapter 12 is a review of Church history including the birth and death of the man-child, who is Christ and will rule with a rod of iron.

Click to expand...

Note that in Revelation 12:5, the "man child" is not Jesus. For Revelation 12:5 is not about past things, but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from four different angles what will happen right before the start and during the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

Regarding Revelation 12:5 saying "who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron": Along with Jesus (Revelation 19:15, Psalms 2:9), the whole obedient church will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-29) on the earth (Revelation 5:10) during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). Before the millennium, during the tribulation, at its midpoint, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus) as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6), and as the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12).

BABerean2 said in post 38:

The time of the judgment of the dead is at Revelation 11:18. This happens at the Second Coming.

Click to expand...

Then are you of the pre-wrath rapture view, instead of the post-tribulation rapture view?

Regarding the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), note that it does not refer to any coming of Jesus. Instead, Revelation 11:15 refers to the future point in time (to us) (Revelation 4:1b) when Jesus will take ultimate, legal, physical authority over the earth, away from Satan (cf. Luke 4:5-7) and Satan's fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12), and away from the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, cf. Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist's ten kings (Revelation 17:12-13), right when the seventh trumpet sounds. It will not be until a little later that Jesus will physically return and take de facto, physical control of the earth at his second coming and during the subsequent millennium (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

Jesus' second coming will not occur immediately after the sounding of the tribulation's seventh trumpet and the declaration of the legal replacement of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5 year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 12:6,14) with Jesus' reign (Revelation 11:15). For a "time" (Revelation 11:18) can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14). It is like if someone said: "It is time to sell this house"; this does not mean that it will get sold immediately. The only part of Revelation 11:18 which will happen immediately after the seventh trumpet sounds is "thy wrath is come". For the plagues of the vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).

So the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the tribulation, will not be the resurrection "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52. The latter will not sound until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at Jesus' second coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), which will not occur until Revelation 19, and which is when the church will be physically resurrected (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Before the second coming, the tribulation's final, Revelation 16 stage could last for seventy-five days. For the first vial in Revelation 16 could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5), which 1,260 days could begin when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36). And Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). An analogy for the possible seventy-five-day vials-delay between Jesus taking legal possession of the earth (Revelation 11:15) and his return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Revelation chapters 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California, seventy-five days before he moves there to live in that house.

At Jesus' second coming, only the church will be physically resurrected and judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Psalms 50:3-6, cf. Mark 13:27). And then Jesus will marry the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12). Then Revelation 19:11-21 will occur. So both the resurrection and the rewarding of the church spoken of in Revelation 11:18, as well as the destroying of the destroyers of the earth spoken of in Revelation 11:18, could occur seventy-five days after the seventh trumpet's sounding. And because a "time" can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14), this would still be well within the "time" referred to in Revelation 11:18.

Everyone not physically resurrected and judged at Jesus' second coming will not be physically resurrected and judged until Revelation 20:11-15, which will not occur until sometime after the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected church have reigned on the earth for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Both resurrections and judgments can still occur within Revelation 11:18's "time". For the original Greek word (kairos: G2540) translated there as "time" can refer to even quite a long period. For example, the same Greek word is used in 2 Corinthians 6:2 to refer to the "time" of people getting saved, which has been going on for thousands of years.

BABerean2 said in post 38:

The wicked angels were cast out of heaven a long time ago, based on the following verses.

2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Click to expand...

Note that 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 refer only to those fallen angels who committed the crime in Genesis 6:2,4. Compare Job 1:6, Job 2:1, and Job 38:7, where "sons of God" means angels.

Regarding Revelation 12:7-9, it has not happened yet, but is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).

Just as what John saw in Revelation 4:2-11 are literal things in heaven, so what he saw in Revelation 12:7-9 is a literal, future, mid-tribulation war in heaven, between Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13).

Revelation 12:7-9 shows that Michael and his angels are more powerful than Satan and his angels. But this does not mean that Satan will not be able to deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into thinking that he and his angels (with the help of a united mankind) will be able to defeat YHWH and his army (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19).

For before Revelation 12:7-9 happens, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as aliens. But they and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The four fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind utterly desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when this army starts killing a third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought on humanity. For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels, and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

It is at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. After landing there, Lucifer, a literal seven-headed, red dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he came to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH God's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist and a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send seven vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of these seven vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the world's armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

When Jesus returns, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 19:7-21, Matthew 24:29-31), he will descend physically from heaven on a white horse (Revelation 19:7-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all of the holy angels (Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:27,30, Revelation 1:7). Then the church will be physically resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortality (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:4-6) and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and marry its obedient part (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12) in the clouds, before it mounts white horses and comes back down from sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the world's armies (Revelation 19:19,21), and the Antichrist and False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and has Lucifer (Satan) bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years (Revelation 20:1-3).

Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54), while the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's defeated armies (Revelation 19:17-18). Then Jesus and the obedient part of the church will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2). After the thousand years, Lucifer will be released from the bottomless pit and bring about the Gog/Magog rebellion, only to be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

At least seven years after that defeat (Ezekiel 39:9b), the great white throne judgment will occur, in which all those who had not been resurrected and judged at Jesus' return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). Then God will create a new heaven (a new first heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:10b,13). Then God the Father will descend from the third heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and he will dwell on the earth with Jesus and the church (Revelation 21:3).

In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8), in which all of unsaved humanity will suffer forever in fire and brimstone with Lucifer and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

Bible2+ said:

That is right.

And because of that, salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22b), and the gospel goes to the Jew first (Romans 1:16). It is also why Jesus said Matthew 15:24,26 in the context of being asked to minister to someone who was not of Israel (Matthew 15:22-26). It is also why Gentile believers have been grafted into Israel, so that they can partake of the salvation offered to Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

That is, the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is already fulfilled, even though the prior, millennial prophecy of Jeremiah 31:1-14,16-25 (Jeremiah 31:15 was fulfilled in the first century AD: Matthew 2:17-18) and the other millennial prophecies have not yet been fulfilled. For the making of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31,33) was fulfilled at Jesus' crucifixion (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17), just as its being made with the houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31,33) has been fulfilled (Acts 2:5,36-41, Romans 11:1,17,24). And the New Covenant being not according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32) has been fulfilled (Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17). And the New Covenant law of Jesus being written on the hearts of believers (Jeremiah 31:33) has been fulfilled (Romans 6:17, Ephesians 6:6, Galatians 6:2). And "they shall teach no more every man his neighbour" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:27). And "they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:13). And "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:12).



Note that Daniel 9:26 can refer to both. For one verse can include two different meanings at the same time. For example, the "son" in Hosea 11:1b referred to the nation of Old Covenant Israel (Exodus 4:22) and its Exodus from Egypt. Also, the "son" in Hosea 11:1b foretold an event in Jesus' life (Matthew 2:14-15,19-21).

Similarly, regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by a future, Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").



Note that even in preterism, there was a gap of decades between the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For first century AD Jerusalem was not destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion. Also, there will be a gap of about seven years between the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For the current Jerusalem will not be destroyed until right before and at Jesus' still-unfulfilled second coming (Zechariah 14:2-21), about seven years after the Antichrist "cuts" a seven-year treaty (Daniel 9:26a,27a) with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) who will be ruling Jerusalem at the start (and then during the first half) of the possibly seven-year tribulation.



That is right, the emphasis being on God himself, as opposed to what the ultra-Orthodox Jews may do during a future time.

For on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the second covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and should not keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), while the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Leviticus 23:19), while the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:21-25). So those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, Abraham's son by a bondmaid (Galatians 4:22), who was cast out (Galatians 4:30), while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's son by a freewoman (Galatians 4:22,31), who became his heir (Galatians 4:30b).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the ten commandments) written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8) was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8.

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been completely and forever done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it is still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), while the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8-9b) which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits Christians to remove the veil and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1,5), or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any Christians are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

Click to expand...

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Nelson Darby showed up on our shores with his doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

............................................................................

The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28. The angel Gabriel did not "forget" to mention the New Covenant already foretold in Jeremiah chapter 31.

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

.

BABerean2 said in post 42:

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Nelson Darby showed up on our shores with his doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology.

Click to expand...

The Darby doctrine is mistaken because it teaches a man-invented, pre-tribulation rapture, and one into the third heaven, rather than the Biblical, post-tribulation rapture into the sky (the first heaven) (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:17). Also, the Darby doctrine is mistaken because it teaches a man-invented form of dispensationalism, which sets up a mutual exclusiveness between the church and Israel, rather than teaching Biblical covenantalism (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15, Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Dispensationalism seems to be based on the mistaken idea that Ephesians 3:2 refers to a period of time (a so-called age of grace, or church age) which does not include Israel, and which will end when the future tribulation begins.

But regarding the present age (world) ending, nothing in verses like Ephesians 1:21b, Ephesians 1:10, Ephesians 3:2, Colossians 1:25, Titus 2:12b and Hebrews 6:5 says or requires that only the present age is an age of grace or a church age, or that the age to come will not also be an age of grace or a church age.

Also, the present age can include the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18) and the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20), with the age to come being the subsequent time of the new earth (Revelation 21). For the end of the present age, when all of the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Revelation 20:15), will not occur until sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-15).

-

Also, just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

That is, all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Bible2+ said:

That is, all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Click to expand...

Unlike the Apostle Paul who identified himself as being from the tribe of Benjamin, there are no descendants of Jacob today who descend from only one tribe. During the diaspora the tribal identities were lost and there was tremendous intermarriage between the tribes. There was also a great deal of mixing with Gentiles.

John the Baptist and Timothy made it clear that genealogy is not to be a factor in the New Covenant.

Mat 3:9　 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.　


1Ti 1:4　 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.　


Therefore, the 12 tribes in the Book of Revelation are symbolic, just as the word "Lamb" is symbolic of Christ. Christ is not an animal, but He was our sacrifice in the same way that the animals were sacrificed. We are grafted into Israel through Christ, who is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel. He came from the tribe of Judah.

Spiritual circumcision occurs upon receiving the Holy Spirit from God, upon faith in Christ. Baptism in water is merely a symbol of the baptism of the Spirit. In John chapter 3 the emphasis is placed on the Spirit, instead of the water. The Spirit is the thing that gives the New Covenant believer the power to overcome sin.

1Co_6:19　 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?


Joh 14:26　 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.　


Those in the New Covenant have their own internal teacher, sent down from God.
This is why those in the New Covenant do not need an external teacher. God has tabernacled among us. You are the ark of the New Covenant.

Heb 8:11　 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.　

.

BABerean2 said:

I have already explained what you do not want to hear.

You are a New Covenant denier, by claiming that Jeremiah 31:31-34 is not fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13 and Hebrews 12:18-24.

Click to expand...

That covenant is still pending and prophecy. Your one size fits all rebuttal makes you look like a preterist denying the Jewish people their rights to accept Christ as their savior as well.


In the rest of Jeremiah 31, it also said the following.


You're just hiding from the truth. What are you gonna do with Jeremiah 31:31-40, just throw it out the window and ignore it since destroys your argument?


The bible said when God makes this covenant with all of Israel (both Kingdoms: Israel and Judah), it will happen at a time when:

1) The descendants of Israel will never stop being a nation. ~ Jeremiah 31:36

2) The days are coming when the city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt for the Lord. The whole city will be rebuilt ~ Jeremiah 31:38

3) The city of Jerusalem will never again be torn down or destroyed. ~ Jeremiah 31:40

You're just hiding from the truth BAB2. What are you gonna do with Jeremiah 31:31-40, just throw it out the window and ignore it since destroys your argument? Deny everything in the bible that doesn't fit your can of worms? You and your cherry-pick-theology.

Strike 1!!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hebrews 8:6-13 was written in 65 AD.

Paul tells us in Hebrews 8:10, the covenant will be fulfill in the future from the time he wrote the book of Hebrews.

BAB2, did you know will indicates future tense?

Hebrews 8:10 (GNT) Now, this is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel in the days to come, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

(Future tense)

Hebrews 8:10 (NCV) This is the agreement I will make with the people of Israel at that time, says the Lord. I will put my teachings in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

(Future tense)


Hebrews 8:10 (NIV) This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

(Future tense)

Hebrews 8:6-13 was written in 65 AD.

Matthew 26:28 happened in 33 AD.

I'm sure you think 65 AD happened before 33 AD. I rest my case.

Strike 2!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hebrews 12:18-29 is evidence of a pre-trib rapture. And completely destroys your precious post-trib rapture.



~at the sound of the trumpet (1 Thessalonians 4:16), Hebrews 12:19,

~the church is taken to heaven. Hebrews 12:22-23.

~This happens just before the tribulation when God pours out His wrath upon the earth, Hebrews 12:26.

~And destroys the world by fire. Hebrews 12:29.

BAB2 guess what? Strike 3!!! You're outta dere!

Now what say you? 0 for 3, at least you're consistent.











.

Psalm3704 said:

That covenant is still pending and prophecy. Your one size fits all rebuttal makes you look like a preterist denying the Jewish people their rights to accept Christ as their savior as well.

Click to expand...

And that would be why my wife and I support ministries which are now taking the Gospel to the Jewish people, instead of telling them they are in a right-relationship with God based on a sample of their DNA...


If you have to claim the text quoted by Paul from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and found in Hebrews 8:6-13 was written by Paul instead of Jeremiah, then you may want to re-examine your doctrine.

If you have to claim that the New Covenant revealed by Christ at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28 is a different New Covenant than the one found in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, then you may want to re-examine your doctrine.


If we want the Jewish people to be saved, then tell them the truth.

The "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 prove that the baby born in a manger was and is the Messiah promised in the Old Testament.

Your personal attack upon me and your willingness to twist the text to make your doctrine work, reveals to others on this forum the truth about what you are saying.

I appreciate the opportunity to use the scriptures to reveal the truth of God's Word.

Thank you for the part you are playing in this interaction.



The following shows how to prove Christ is the Jewish Messiah.

BABerean2 said in post 44:

John the Baptist and Timothy made it clear that genealogy is not to be a factor in the New Covenant.

Click to expand...

It is not to be the only factor:

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 ¶Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

All genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-5). But being part of the true, spiritual Israel, the true, spiritual seed of Abraham, the promised seed, is not based on genetics (Romans 9:6-24), but on God's election (Romans 9:11), which includes both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

All believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are part of the true Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 11:17,24, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 10:16), the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:28-29, Romans 4:16-17), the promised seed, just as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28). And so all Gentiles in the church, along with all Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Romans 15:27).

In Romans 9:8, by "the children of the flesh", Paul means genetic Jews, who are the genetic children of Abraham (Romans 11:1, Acts 13:26, John 8:37). And by "the children of God"/"the children of the promise", Paul means the elect, both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24, Galatians 4:28). Romans 9:6-8 means that not all Jews are elect (John 8:37-47, John 10:26), and that some Gentiles are elect (Romans 9:24, John 10:16, John 11:52). Only a remnant of genetic Israel is elect (Romans 9:27), just as only a remnant of humanity in general is elect (chosen) (Matthew 22:14, Matthew 7:14).

Regarding unsaved elect Jews:

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

This means that some unbelievers are the genetic descendants of Abraham (John 8:37, Acts 13:26, Romans 11:1, Acts 7:2, Acts 3:25). And some of these unbelievers are elect, and are beloved in part because of their genetic descent (Romans 11:28-29).

BABerean2 said in post 44:

We are grafted into Israel through Christ, who is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel.

Click to expand...

Amen.

For Jesus is Israel insofar as he is the promised "seed" of Abraham (Galatians 3:16), and the seed of Abraham is Israel (Isaiah 41:8, Romans 11:1; 2 Chronicles 20:7). And so all those in Jesus are Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 11:17,24, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), just as all those in Jesus are the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:29).

So the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). Not just the Jews in the church (e.g. Romans 11:1b), but also the Gentiles in the church, are spiritually Abraham's seed of promise (Romans 9:7-8,24), as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28), and as Jesus is (Galatians 3:16,29). And so Gentiles in the church, along with Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 15:27, Galatians 3:29b, Romans 11:17,24).

BABerean2 said in post 44:

Baptism in water is merely a symbol of the baptism of the Spirit. In John chapter 3 the emphasis is placed on the Spirit, instead of the water.

Click to expand...

Note that the Bible's teachings regarding Holy Spirit baptism in no way negate the necessity of water baptism.

For in order to be saved ultimately, believers must get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus' death for our sins (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16). If people believe with all their heart that Jesus Christ is the human/divine Son of God (Acts 8:37), they can get baptized anywhere there is water (Acts 8:36) into which they can be fully-immersed (buried) (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12). They need to make sure to be baptized in the name of God the Father; and of the Son, Jesus Christ; and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38). Believers can get water-immersion baptized at, for example, a Baptist-type congregation.

Besides getting water baptized, believers can get Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46). They usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13b) baptism, for it is usually not given to them automatically at the moment that they become believers. That is why Paul the apostle asked some believers: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2).

Believers usually receive Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Holy Spirit baptism will not result in speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Corinthians 12:30), but for almost everyone, as tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-11,28; 1 Corinthians 14:5). Many believers have not yet experienced Holy Spirit baptism simply because they have not yet asked for it, under the principle of "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b). Many believers have not yet asked for it because they have come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say that it is no longer in effect. Believers can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism at any Pentecostal-type congregation, or at any charismatic-type congregation, which can be of almost any denomination.

BABerean2 said in post 44:

Those in the New Covenant have their own internal teacher, sent down from God.

Click to expand...

Amen. For:

1 John 2:27 ...the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This means that through the Bible, the Holy Spirit can teach Christians directly (John 16:13; 2 Timothy 3:15-17). But he also works through human teachers and prophets in the church (1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 4:11-16, Colossians 3:16; 2 Timothy 2:2,24, Hebrews 5:12).

Psalm3704 said in post 45:

[Jer. 31:38] This message is from the Lord, “The days are coming when the city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt for the Lord.

Click to expand...

Amen.

And this brings to mind Zechariah 14, which is about Jesus' still-unfulfilled second coming with all of his saints (Zechariah 14:5b; 1 Thessalonians 3:13b), and about the subsequent millennium, when he will rule the earth from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:8-21, Micah 4:1-4). Zechariah 14:3 refers to the second-coming battle of Revelation 19:19-21. And Zechariah 14:4 shows that at his second coming, Jesus will physically land on the Mount of Olives, just as at the end of his first coming, he physically ascended from the Mount of Olives. Acts 1:11-12 says that Jesus will return in like manner as he left.

Before Jesus returns, at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 the world's armies will gather together at a staging area at Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo, Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). They will then move south and pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-5, Revelation 19:19-21). Jesus will then remain on the earth as king (Zechariah 14:9), and the unsaved people left alive on the earth (Matthew 24:40) will be forced to come up to Jerusalem and worship him annually (Zechariah 14:16-19). Jesus and the physically resurrected church will rule the unsaved survivors of the nations with a rod of iron during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, Zechariah 12:2-14 refers to the same future time as Zechariah 14.

--

It is sometimes claimed that Zechariah 14 was fulfilled at Jesus' first coming. But Jesus' first coming was not the day of the Lord (Zechariah 14:1), for that will not begin until his second coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2). Also, Jesus' first coming did not occur right after Jerusalem had been pillaged by all nations gathered against it (Zechariah 14:2-5). Also, at his first coming, Jesus did not fight the nations (Zechariah 14:3) and then land on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4). It will be at his second coming that Jesus will fight the nations (Revelation 19:11-21) and then land on the Mount of Olives, just as he had ascended from the Mount of Olives at the end of his first coming (Acts 1:11-12).

Also, at his first coming, Jesus did not split the Mount of Olives in two (Zechariah 14:4), creating a valley through which the Jews in Jerusalem could flee from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:5) as Jesus waged war against all the nations of the world which had just pillaged Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-5). Also, at Jesus' first coming, he did not come with all of the saints (Zechariah 14:5b). That will happen only at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 3:13b). Also, at Jesus' first coming, he did not make it so that Jerusalem was light at night (Zechariah 14:6-7). And he did not make water flow out from Jerusalem in summer and winter, half of the water flowing toward the Dead Sea and the other half toward the Mediterranean Sea (Zechariah 14:8). And he did not make himself king over the earth (Zechariah 14:9). And he did not flatten the topography for miles around Jerusalem and raise its elevation (Zechariah 14:10). And he did not make it so that Jerusalem would not be destroyed (Zechariah 14:11). And he did not send an amazingly rapid, flesh-eating plague against the armies which had just pillaged Jerusalem, so that their flesh consumed away while they stood on their feet (Zechariah 14:12).

Also, at his first coming, Jesus did not cause the armies which had just pillaged Jerusalem to fight against each other (Zechariah 14:13). And he did not make Judah fight at Jerusalem and win for itself the wealth of all the nations surrounding it (Zechariah 14:14). And he did not make the transportation animals used by the armies which had just pillaged Jerusalem suffer the horrible flesh-eating plague (Zechariah 14:15,12). And unsaved survivors of all nations which had just pillaged Jerusalem did not come to Jerusalem annually at the feast of tabernacles to worship Jesus (Zechariah 14:16). And he did not send drought and plague against the nations which refused to come to Jerusalem to worship him (Zechariah 14:17-19).

Also, at his first coming, Jesus did not make Jerusalem so holy that even the bells on the horses in Jerusalem had the words "Holiness Unto The Lord" engraved on them (Zechariah 14:20). And he did not make it so that the animal-sacrifice boiling pots in the temple in Jerusalem became as holy as the bowls before the altar (Zechariah 14:20). And did not make it so that every pot in Jerusalem and Judah became holiness to the Lord (Zechariah 14:21). Instead, at his first coming, Jesus left unbelieving Jerusalem spiritually desolate (Luke 13:35). Also, at his first coming, Jesus did not make it so that there would be no more Canaanites in the temple in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:21).

Psalm3704 said in post 45:

Hebrews 8:6-13 was written in 65 AD.

Click to expand...

Note that Hebrews 8:8-13 was quoting directly from something which had been written in the sixth century BC:

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:13 means that when the prophet Jeremiah in the sixth century BC prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 about the first century AD making of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6), which would not be according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32, Romans 7:6), Jeremiah's prophecy, as soon as it was made, had immediately made the letter of the Mosaic-law covenant "old" and headed inexorably toward a future extinction (Hebrews 7:18-19). This extinction occurred at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a).

Psalm3704 said in post 45:

Hebrews 12:18-29 is evidence of a pre-trib rapture. And completely destroys your precious post-trib rapture.

Click to expand...

Note that Hebrews 12:22 says "ye are come", not "ye will come" in a future, pre-tribulation rapture.

For Hebrews 12:22, like Ephesians 2:6, can refer figuratively to our present salvation under the New Covenant (Galatians 4:24-26, Hebrews 12:22,24).

Regarding Hebrews 12:26b-29, it can refer to the same thing as 2 Peter 3:10-13. Note that neither passage teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture.

Psalm3704 said in post 45:

~at the sound of the trumpet (1 Thessalonians 4:16), Hebrews 12:19,

Click to expand...

Note that Hebrews 12:19 is referring to what Christians are not come to:

Hebrews 12:18 ¶For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more...

This refers to the trumpet at Mount Sinai after Israel's Exodus from Egypt (Exodus 19:16 to 20:19).

Psalm3704 said in post 45:

~the church is taken to heaven. Hebrews 12:22-23.

Click to expand...

Do you mean that the rapture will take believers into the third heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b)? If so, note that no scripture requires that believers will be raptured any higher than the clouds of the sky (the first heaven) to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). After that meeting, in which the church will be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), and the obedient part of the church will be married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7, Matthew 25:1-13), the obedient part of the church will come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:15-21) to physically reign on the earth with him for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). After the thousand years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), the obedient part of the church will live on a new earth with God the Father and Jesus in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21-22).

Psalm3704 said in post 45:

~This happens just before the tribulation when God pours out His wrath upon the earth, Hebrews 12:26.

Click to expand...

Note that nothing requires that the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath, or that any part of the tribulation which will be his wrath will be directed against any of the saved people (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Most of the tribulation could be Satan's wrath working through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on the earth, like when Satan was allowed to work through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

The tribulation's first five seals (Revelation 6:1-11) will not be God's wrath or judgment, for after the first four seals, the martyrs of the fifth seal ask God when he is going to bring his judgment against the world (Revelation 6:10). And the killing of even more martyrs, which the fifth seal foretells will happen sometime after the fifth seal (Revelation 6:11), will not be God's wrath against those martyrs. So Jesus' unsealing of the seals (Revelation 6), the tribulation's first stage, does not mean that the events unsealed will be God's wrath, but that they will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

The tribulation's sixth seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), as in only a few years before. The day of the Lord itself will not begin until Jesus' second coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which will not occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) will not begin until Jesus' second coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

So the people quoted at the sixth seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the sixth seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job did not go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11; and just as the apostles John and Matthew did not go out of their way to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a; so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

After the tribulation's sixth seal will occur its seventh seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its seven trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires that any of the first six trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The fifth trumpet's events will be the work of strange locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10), led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the sixth trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of weird horse-like beings led by four fallen angels previously bound at the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first six trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy a third of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause a third of the angels (i.e. his fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4,9).

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what Satan could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction is not from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, he could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the tribulation's seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself is not the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself is not in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and to give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against the church (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for the church is not appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath comes in the seven vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, because the church is not appointed to God's wrath, none of the vials will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

Jesus will return right after the seventh-and-last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and he will bring the second-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that second-coming wrath begins, the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

BABerean2 said:

And that would be why my wife and I support ministries which are now taking the Gospel to the Jewish people, instead of telling them they are in a right-relationship with God based on a sample of their DNA...

Click to expand...

I hope you're also not telling them the prophecy Paul wrote in the book of Hebrews 8 written in 65 AD was already fulfilled in 33 AD at the Last Supper.

BABerean2 said:

If we want the Jewish people to be saved, then tell them the truth.

Click to expand...

I agree. Tell them 33 AD (The Last Supper in Matthew 26:28) came first and happened before 65 AD (when Paul wrote the book of Hebrews), not the other way around which is what you're telling everyone on CF.

BABerean2 said:

Your personal attack upon me and your willingness to twist the text to make your doctrine work, reveals to others on this forum the truth about what you are saying.

Click to expand...

Are you getting offended by the emotes and smiley faces?

BABerean2 said:

I appreciate the opportunity to use the scriptures to reveal the truth of God's Word.

Thank you for the part you are playing in this interaction.

Click to expand...

You're welcome my.....

BABerean2 said:

The following shows how to prove Christ is the Jewish Messiah.

Click to expand...

I'm not Jewish BAB2. And I've already accepted Christ as the my Messiah 43 years ago.










.

Bible2+ said:

Regarding unsaved elect Jews:

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

This means that some unbelievers are the genetic descendants of Abraham (John 8:37, Acts 13:26, Romans 11:1, Acts 7:2, Acts 3:25). And some of these unbelievers are elect, and are beloved in part because of their genetic descent (Romans 11:28-29).

Click to expand...

Paul started Romans chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites.
During the time of Elijah most Israelites had bowed down to Baal.
However, there were 7,000 Israelites who refused to bow to Baal.
Paul said there was also a faithful remnant during his time.

Paul ends the chapter in the same way in Romans 11:28.
There was a group of "they" who refused the Messiah and were enemies of the Gospel.
There was another group of "they" who accepted Christ and were the faithful election.
Paul started the chapter with two groups of Israelites, one faithful and one not, and he ends the chapter in the same manner.

Based on 1 John 2:22-23, a person cannot be the elect without faith in the Son.

.

Psalm3704 said:

I agree. Tell them 33 AD (The Last Supper in Matthew 26:28) came first and happened before 65 AD (when Paul wrote the book of Hebrews), not the other way around which is what you're telling everyone on CF.

Click to expand...

I Never said any such thing.

You are the one who is denying that Paul quoted from Jeremiah chapter 31 in Hebrews chapter 8.

If you want to talk about not telling the truth in order to make your doctrine work...

Luk_6:42　 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother's eye.

.

BABerean2 said in post 51:

There was a group of "they" who refused the Messiah and were enemies of the Gospel.

Click to expand...

The "they" in Romans 11:28 (in both parts of the verse) is the "they" in Romans 11:23.

Romans 11:28, like 2 Timothy 2:10, shows that the elect (the chosen) are elect even before they get saved (Acts 13:48b, Ephesians 1:4-11, Romans 9:11-24; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), and that they are loved by God before they get saved (Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:10).

BABerean2 said in post 51:

Based on 1 John 2:22-23, a person cannot be the elect without faith in the Son.

Click to expand...

Note that 1 John 2:22-23 doesn't say or require that. For the elect are those individuals, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved by faith at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12), and so it is impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people cannot understand the gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect cannot ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they are shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they cannot repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

Bible2+ said:

The nonelect cannot ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they are shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they cannot repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

Click to expand...

This portion of your post proved what I said to be correct.

The key to the passage is context.

Paul started Romans 11 with two groups of Israelites, one elect and one not. (Baal worshippers, and those who would not bow to Baal)

He ends it in the same way.

These two groups are also found in Romans 9:6 and Romans 9:8.

There are the children of the Flesh and the children of the Promise.
Not all Israel is Israel of the Promise.

Being a member of the New Covenant has nothing to do with race, based on Matthew 3:9 and 1 Timothy 1:4.

It is based only on faith in Christ.

God does not now care about my skin color, or my DNA sample.
The middle wall of separation between all races of people was broken down at Calvary.

.

BABerean2 said in post 54:

God does not now care about my skin color, or my DNA sample.

Click to expand...

That's right, except that, even under the New Covenant, elect Jews are beloved in part based on their genetic descent from the Patriarchs:

Romans 11:28b . . . they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Also, it needs to be emphasized that regard to humanity as a whole (that is, including both Jews and Gentiles), even under the New Covenant, God does not love everyone. For he hates the nonelect (Romans 9:11-22), whether nonelect Jews or nonelect Gentiles. And during their lifetime, God even hardens the nonelect in their sinfulness instead of showing them his mercy (Romans 9:18), because he created them to be vessels of his wrath (Romans 9:20-22, Proverbs 16:4). They were of old ordained to condemnation (Jude 1:4). They were appointed to disobedience (1 Peter 2:8, Acts 2:23). But God never forces them or anyone else to commit sin. He never even tempts anyone to commit sin (James 1:13-15). All people will be justly held accountable for their deeds (Romans 2:6-8), because neither election nor nonelection takes away the free will of people.

God created nonelect people to be vessels of his wrath instead of vessels of his mercy so that he might eternally make known his wrath and power (Romans 9:21-22, Proverbs 16:4, Revelation 14:10-11). And God created elect people to be vessels of his mercy so that he might eternally make known his mercy, glory, and wisdom (Romans 9:23, Ephesians 3:10, Ephesians 1:8,11).

God wants these aspects of his nature to be made known to both humans and angels (Ephesians 3:10), neither of which group yet knows experientially the full extent of God's qualities and abilities (1 Corinthians 2:9; 1 Peter 1:12b). For example, the full extent of God's wrath will not be known to humans and angels until Satan and his fallen angels and all of unsaved humanity are cast into the eternal suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11), and saved humans and holy angels go forth from the city of New Jerusalem on the new earth to witness the suffering of the unsaved in the lake of fire (Isaiah 66:24), the eternal hell (Mark 9:45-46), and realize by seeing it, not only the extent of God's wrath, but by it, by way of contrast, the extent of God's mercy toward them (Lamentations 3:22-23). Just as "up" cannot be eternally known for what it is without the eternal coexistence of "down", so God's mercy cannot be eternally known for what it is without the eternal coexistence of his wrath.

Guide To The Bible said:

Very soon Satan himself will appear on Earth looking just like Jesus but he will claim to be Isa, the Muslim name for Jesus and will say the Muslims are right and the Christians are wrong. He will also appear with superior technology that people will assume is of extraterrestrial origin. Most Christian's will believe this delusion which will cause the great falling away. Satan will then select the Muslim Mahdi as the new ruler of the World, in accordance with the Quranic prophesy but this will really be the Anti-Christ. The real Jesus will return seven years after this event.

During these years anyone who resists this ruler in the name of the Christian Jesus will be beheaded. The global economy will collapse, poverty and hunger will increase. Food supply will be rationed and one country after another will eventually be forced to adopt the mark of the beast system. This will be a chip implant that allows you to buy and sell food etc, that Satan (Isa) will provide with his technology. The last country to fall to this system will be Israel.

At the beginning of the 7 years Israel will have just rebuilt the Temple on the Temple mount in Jerusalem and will have restarted it sacrifices. The new High Priest will be the False Prophet and he and the Anti-Christ will hate each other just as the Bible says.The High Priest and the Israeli government will agree to the 7 year peace treaty that the Anti-Chirst will impose on many countries around the world but after three and half years the Anti-Christ will invade Israel and stop the sacrifices. Then 1290 days later Israel will be forced to finally accept the mark of the beast as their supplies of food run out. There will be final period of 45 days and then the real Jesus will return. Thank God.

The Two Witnesses will be two very normal Christian men who will already have end times ministries. They will travel to Jerusalem and begin the last 1260 days of their ministry on the Temple mount, just after the sacrifices are stopped. Then just before the Mark of the Beast implant system is set up in Jerusalem they will be killed by Satan's forces that will have been unleashed on Earth 5 months before Jesus returns. The Witnesses will survive the first three and half months of this onslaught of Satan's 200 million strong demonic army spoken of in Revelation. Three and a half days after they are killed they will resurrect and ascend to heaven. Then the Mark will be set up. The last 45 days will be the worst time in the history for world. By the time Jesus returns most (at least 80%) of humans will have been killed. When Jesus returns he will destroy everything on the surface of the Earth with fire from Heaven and the rapture will happen, first the dead in Christ then the living. The only people to survive will be non-Christians hidden deep under ground.

Click to expand...

Complete and utter rubbish. Sorry

Bible2+ said:

That's right, except that, even under the New Covenant, elect Jews are beloved in part based on their genetic descent from the Patriarchs:

Romans 11:28b . . . they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Click to expand...

How do we know we have the correct interpretation of a passage?

Because it does not produce conflict with any other passage.
If it does produce a conflict with any other passage, we must admit that something is wrong with our interpretation.

This process of "Conflict Resolution" keeps us on the right track.

Mat 3:9　 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
Mat 3:10　 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.　

Joh 8:39　 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.　

Joh 8:44　 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.　

Rom 2:28　 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;　
Rom 2:29　 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.　

Rom 9:8　 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.　

Gal 3:28　 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.　
Gal 3:29　 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.　

1Ti 1:4　 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.　


If you can make your interpretation agree with all of the above, then you are correct.
Otherwise, there is a problem.

.

Guide To The Bible said:

Very soon Satan himself will appear on Earth looking just like Jesus but he will claim to be Isa, the Muslim name for Jesus and will say the Muslims are right and the Christians are wrong. He will also appear with superior technology that people will assume is of extraterrestrial origin. Most Christian's will believe this delusion which will cause the great falling away. Satan will then select the Muslim Mahdi as the new ruler of the World, in accordance with the Quranic prophesy but this will really be the Anti-Christ. The real Jesus will return seven years after this event.

During these years anyone who resists this ruler in the name of the Christian Jesus will be beheaded. The global economy will collapse, poverty and hunger will increase. Food supply will be rationed and one country after another will eventually be forced to adopt the mark of the beast system. This will be a chip implant that allows you to buy and sell food etc, that Satan (Isa) will provide with his technology. The last country to fall to this system will be Israel.

At the beginning of the 7 years Israel will have just rebuilt the Temple on the Temple mount in Jerusalem and will have restarted it sacrifices. The new High Priest will be the False Prophet and he and the Anti-Christ will hate each other just as the Bible says.The High Priest and the Israeli government will agree to the 7 year peace treaty that the Anti-Chirst will impose on many countries around the world but after three and half years the Anti-Christ will invade Israel and stop the sacrifices. Then 1290 days later Israel will be forced to finally accept the mark of the beast as their supplies of food run out. There will be final period of 45 days and then the real Jesus will return. Thank God.

The Two Witnesses will be two very normal Christian men who will already have end times ministries. They will travel to Jerusalem and begin the last 1260 days of their ministry on the Temple mount, just after the sacrifices are stopped. Then just before the Mark of the Beast implant system is set up in Jerusalem they will be killed by Satan's forces that will have been unleashed on Earth 5 months before Jesus returns. The Witnesses will survive the first three and half months of this onslaught of Satan's 200 million strong demonic army spoken of in Revelation. Three and a half days after they are killed they will resurrect and ascend to heaven. Then the Mark will be set up. The last 45 days will be the worst time in the history for world. By the time Jesus returns most (at least 80%) of humans will have been killed. When Jesus returns he will destroy everything on the surface of the Earth with fire from Heaven and the rapture will happen, first the dead in Christ then the living. The only people to survive will be non-Christians hidden deep under ground.

Click to expand...

if (God forbid) there appears a human antichrist of all antichrists in the world, he must be a greatest angel of satan i.e. a human being with angelic features and powers, which means someone that is a kind of king of the occultists/esotericists/heretics/idolaters, someone like krishna, why i think so?!, here is an explanation with pictures:

the "tree" that is beyond the "garden of Eden" and that has been forbidden by God, also called (the) "fig tree"(art image):




a human can "eat" of it by practicing occultism, esotericism, idolatry and, in general, unrighteous faith/spirituality/religion, but initially this happened in the form of the creed that for the last centuries has been known as yoga of krishna and patanjali

yoga as a "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" and the yogi(n) as cognizing/knowing and joining/uniting with it(art image):




the "third eye"(a.k.a. the sixth chakra) on the forehead of a female yogi(n) in the process of yoga(art image):




this is a process that converts/turns the human(the practitioner) into a spiritual servant/worker of satan, while the culmination is their transformation into (complete) angels of satan

an yogi(n) in process of cosmic transcendental meditation and the so-called "chakras"(seven main satanic spirits)(art image):




an yogi(n) in process of intensive and deep yoga meditation, there is a powerful prana(satanic force) unleashing in him(art image):




the peak culmination of yoga is when after an intensive, deep and long-standing meditation there occurs physical death for the yogi(n) and they resurrect in the "darkness" like the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who has (been) resurrected in the "Light", so the yogi(n) turns into a complete angel of satan mastering/having powers for great signs and wonders even on a cosmic scale with/through which a maximum number of people to be misled/deceived/lied, including various types of wisdom, omnipresence, telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation, materialization, dematerialization, etc.

a complete angel of satan showing great signs and wonders of cosmic scale (in this case cosmic nebulas, supernova or other cosmic phenomena)(art image):




the kingdom of satan (whose structure consists of many occult realms) can exist for no more than 5-6 millennia as from the day of the original sin(Fall), then there will be a full destruction of it and all that inhabit it

Blessings

99% of Revelations has already happened by 70AD.

Guide To The Bible said:

Very soon Satan himself will appear on Earth looking just like Jesus but he will claim to be Isa, the Muslim name for Jesus and will say the Muslims are right and the Christians are wrong

Click to expand...

Not going to happen. Isa in muslim prophecy does not show up until the end, when the Mahdi is in a do or die battle with the dajeel - the muslim version of the Antichrist. There is no counter person to play the role of the dajeel in biblical prophecy.

The three main persons in Muslim prophecy are:

Mahdi
Isa
Dajeel

The match is generally thought to be....

Mahdi - the Antichrist
Isa - the false prophet
Dajeel - ???? that 's what missing. There is no counterpart in the bible, to be in that role.

The whole muslim end times prophecy - came from sitting around the campfires, making stuff up.