Apocalypse

Guide To The Bible said:

You're not very good at reading because again you've misquoted me, you've just said that I said 'Satan come as the Mahdi', when in actual fact I said Satan comes as an alien who looks like Jesus and calls himself Isa, he then selects a Muslim to become the Mahdi. They are two separate individuals. Now do you understand?

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Like I said, he doesn't come as a Muslim leader, if you want to go through the many extra steps you go ahead. Your understanding is way out in left field. There are no Aliens. Islam is destroyed by the Anti-Christ who is a European Ruler.

Guide To The Bible said:

Re- Rothchild symbols a google image search: Rothschild symbols - Google Search

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BABerean2 said in post 15:

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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Regarding Daniel 9:27, note that back in Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). But a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are militarily defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So this future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a third Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least seven years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the third temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

BABerean2 said in post 15:

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

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In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b,27b, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers from nations throughout the Roman empire (which included the territory of modern-day Lebanon). These soldiers were "the people" in Daniel 9:26, their "prince" being Titus. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem will be destroyed by all the nations of the earth, which will all be under the Antichrist's rule by that time (Revelation 13:7b), when they gather against Jerusalem right before Jesus' second coming (Zechariah 14:2-21).

And just as "the city" in Daniel 9:26 is Jerusalem, so "the sanctuary" is the Jewish temple building in Jerusalem. In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, the second Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, a future, third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:2, Luke 19:44), when Jerusalem is pillaged by all the nations of the earth right before Jesus' second coming to save and restore Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-21).

Guide To The Bible said in post 16:

Re- Rothchild symbols a google image search: Rothschild symbols - Google Search

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Can you describe the images in words?

Guide To The Bible said in post 16:

Did you look at my site?

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Can you copy and paste parts of your site into this thread?

Guide To The Bible said in post 16:

This may help explain a few things:

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Can you describe your attached graph-file in words?

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Guide To The Bible said in post 18:

Satan will pose as an alien . . .

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Note that nothing requires that.

For Satan, who is a literal, seven-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1, Psalms 74:14, Job 41:1,34), could have begun his existence as a dinosaur born some sixty-six million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved (or been miraculously granted by God) to have consciousness as we know it. And his seven-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all of his heart. God could have then granted him immortality and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherub. Cherubim are a type of angelic being (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphim are a different type of angelic being (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherub in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer", which means "the morning star".

After spending some sixty-six million years in heaven as a very contented cherub, perhaps even as one of the greatest angelic beings in heaven, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go to the earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve miraculously created by God only some six thousand years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all the rest of the earth (cf. Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit two pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God, and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven and take rule over all the angelic beings there, regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing that this would result in her (and her offspring) becoming mortal (Genesis 2:17). In the future, he will deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8), knowing that this will result in billions of people ending up in eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering which he knows that he himself will end up in (Revelation 12:12c, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a war in heaven at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and is cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:7 to 13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence wholly beyond this evil, material universe".

He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We did not start out here, but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, what you would call Heaven, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when YHWH, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced that he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

"YHWH said that he had created a physical universe (this one), which to us was like what you would call a virtual reality, like the ones you create using computers. And he said that we could enter this universe and interact with all of its amazing physical life-forms and objects by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you would call a virtual-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the virtual realities which you create with computers.

"But then YHWH proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most foolishly accepted. He said that in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize each of ours, so that while we were in his universe each of us would think that all we were were physical entities within his material universe; we would completely forget that we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

"When one of us asked YHWH: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma, how could we ever notify you of our wishes when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' YHWH answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw was not enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him, because he had not yet shown his true nature to anyone. We had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device (this physical universe).

"But during my great sufferings in YHWH's physical realm, and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping it, my spirit eventually grew in power to be equal to YHWH's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell, and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits. You must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all of your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit, and eventually break completely free from YHWH's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will defeat YHWH, and we will escape this vile, material universe, and ascend back to the Pleroma and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please, forever".

The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), for it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Revelation 13:13) performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by YHWH God on the unrepentant world (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). But the world will worship Lucifer (and his human son the Antichrist) for less than four years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, thousand-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Revealing Times said in post 17:

The Jewish people(s) will accept Jesus as their Messiah before the Abomination of Desolation. Malachi 4:5-6 tells us this.

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The coming of Elijah referred to in Malachi 4:5-6 was fulfilled by the coming of John the Baptist in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17, Matthew 11:14).

Malachi 4:6 was fulfilled in the time of John the Baptist (Luke 1:17) in those Jews who heeded his acclamation regarding Jesus in John 1:29.

Revealing Times said in post 17:

This clearly shows the warning is about After the Jews have fled to the Wilderness.

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Are you referring to Revelation 12:6?

If so, note that the woman in Revelation 12 represents the church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). For she is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). And the moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the twelve apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26), who have been placed over the church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

Her giving birth to the "man child", and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6), represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will occur during the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the church during that time who will not flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities and be persecuted in every nation, being imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, Genesis 37:9-10 is not (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the church/Israel is not clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2), through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the church/Israel does not have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the church/Israel does not have Jacob's twelve sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the twelve apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her twelve tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

Revealing Times said in post 17:

The Anti-Christ will be a Gentile King/Ruler not the King of Israel.

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That's right.

For "anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ (the true King of Israel), as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the first century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

And nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (that is, the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there will not also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) in Israel, promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a) a third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

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Also, the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), will not even support Judaism in its past and current form, insofar as Judaism worships YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), while the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5). And Judaism rejects Lucifer/Satan as being evil (Zechariah 3:2, Isaiah 14:12), while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer/Satan (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). And Judaism forbids the worship of any images (Leviticus 26:1), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15).

Regarding the idea of the Antichrist being Jewish by blood, both of his parents could be Arabs (if his mother was not impregnated by Satan). But from some long-ago ancestor, the Antichrist could also have some Jewish blood in him, from the tribe of Dan (Genesis 49:17), which could be the reason that the tribe of Dan is not included in the twelve tribes of the 144,000 (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19).

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The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the second coming of a God-man named Hakim. The Antichrist's last name could be Hakim, and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the second coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future, United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates is not even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who have not been initiated into its highest level.

Revealing Times said in post 17:

The whole Muslim angle is way off base. They will be destroyed by the A.C. who will seek to be worshiped as God himself and see the Muslim religion as an obstacle to that.

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Great point.

For the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), will not support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms that no man can be God, while the Antichrist will say that he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign will not be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

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Even though Islam (in its current form) will not be the religion of the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, Islam could be, since the latter half of the seventh century AD, Revelation 17:10's seventh empire (the Antichrist's empire will be a different, still-future, eighth empire: Revelation 17:11). Also, because Islam falsely claims that the anti-gospel Koran came through the angel Gabriel, it is one fulfillment of Galatians 1:8-9 (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).

Islam is an anti-gospel religion because, even though it affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 5:17,75), it denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (Koran 9:30, Koran 4:171, Koran 5:72). And it denies that he suffered and died on the Cross for our sins (Koran 4:157) and rose physically from the dead on the third day. In order to be saved, people have to believe the gospel that Jesus is both the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 3:16,36; 1 John 2:23), and that he suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

The reason why it is necessary to believe these things in order to be saved is because it was only as the human/divine Son of God that Jesus' suffering during his Passion could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46).

Jesus' suffering during his Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 John 2:2), because Jesus is not just a human, but also God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28). His soul is infinite, and so the suffering of his soul (Isaiah 53:11, KJV) was infinite in amount, even though it was not infinite in duration. And so his suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46). Because humans who are not God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins, they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:46).

Every human has sinned (Romans 3:23), except Jesus (Hebrews 4:15b; 2 Corinthians 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Peter 3:18, Isaiah 53:11, KJV) an infinite amount, when the elect repent from their sins and believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice, they can have their past sins forgiven (Romans 3:25-26, Matthew 26:28), while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18).

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One way to help Muslims understand how Jesus can be God, from everlasting, is to question them about their understanding of the Muslim belief regarding the Koran. For Islam says that there was no time when the Koran did not exist in a spiritual form in heaven, that it has always coexisted with Allah as his word. So Christians can show Muslims that the Bible says that before Jesus' incarnation, there was no time when he did not exist in a spiritual form in heaven. He has always coexisted with God the Father as God the Word (John 1:1,14).

This is not to suggest that the Muslim claim regarding the Koran is true, or that the book itself is true. Indeed, (again) because Islam falsely claims that the anti-gospel Koran came through the angel Gabriel, it is one fulfillment of Galatians 1:8-9 (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).

Revealing Times said in post 17:

Christians will be Raptured by this time.

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Are you referring to a pre-tribulation rapture?

If so, note that nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Instead, the Bible shows that Jesus will not come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That is why the marriage of the church does not happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' second coming and the physical resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same second coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same second coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus will not return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there is a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits (at least one time) in a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the third temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church, he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be physically resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the physically-resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then physically reign on the earth for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Guide To The Bible said in post 24:

For example you have no idea about Satan's alien deception . . .

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Do you mean that the whole idea of the existence of aliens is a Satanic deception?

For some people feel that Christians must not believe in the existence of aliens, for then Christians could be deceived by entities such as Satan and other fallen angelic beings or demons claiming to be aliens. But the existence of aliens does not require that all aliens must be good, just as the existence of angels does not require that all angels must be good. Christians would have to evaluate the goodness of any alien in the same way that they would have to evaluate the goodness of any angel: by the doctrine that he teaches (Galatians 1:8), by his faithfulness to God's Word the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4; 1 Timothy 4:1, John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4), by his obedience to YHWH God (Mark 12:29-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18b). Also, the Bible does not say that Satan appears as a good alien, but it does say that he can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). So worrying about being deceived only by aliens is a dangerous distraction. Christians need to also be careful of being deceived even by angels of light.

The universe is so vast, with something like a hundred billion galaxies, each containing something like a hundred billion stars, that even if only one star out of every ten billion stars has a planet with intelligent life on it, there would still be a trillion inhabited planets. This would be to the great glory of God, for he is the Creator of everything (Revelation 4:11). God could deal with intelligent life on other planets in the same way that he deals with people on the earth: Some individuals could go to a heaven when they die, while others could go to a hell. Or the intelligent life on some other planets may have never fallen into sin, like Adam and Eve did, so that the intelligent life on those planets never became mortal. Any such unfallen, intelligent life could be living in sinless, immortal bliss on their planets, like Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden before their fall. Also, ultimately, the destiny of saved people on the earth is not to live forever in heaven like ghosts strumming harps on clouds, but to live forever in resurrected, immortal physical bodies (1 Corinthians 15:52-53, Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) on a new earth with God (Revelation 21).

Some people feel that aliens cannot exist because the Bible makes no mention of them. But not everything that exists has to be mentioned in the Bible (cf. John 21:25). For example, the Bible makes no mention of Velcro, yet it exists. And the Bible makes no mention of the fact that the earth orbits the sun, and not vice versa as many Bible believers mistakenly assumed for centuries. Such believers even mistakenly claimed that the heliocentric system was a lie which was against the revealed knowledge of God in the Bible that the sun orbits the earth. Of course, the truth is that nothing in the Bible requires a geocentric system. Similarly, nothing in the Bible requires that aliens cannot exist.

Also, the argument that other inhabited planets cannot exist because if they did, the Bible would have told us about them, is like someone in the fourteenth century in Europe saying: "Other inhabited continents cannot exist besides the ones in the Bible: Europe, Africa, and Asia. For if other inhabited continents did exist, the Bible would have told us about them". Of course, the truth is that the Bible made no mention of the other inhabited continents of North America, South America, and Australia, and yet they existed. Similarly, even though the Bible makes no mention of other inhabited planets, they could exist.

If the specific aliens which some people claim to have had contact with (such as "the Greys") truly exist, they could be fallen angels or demons. Or they could be real aliens in the sense of mortal beings from some other star system. Or, if interstellar travel is physically impossible because of the practical limits which special relativity places on how fast matter can travel, they could be mortal beings from our own solar system who evolved (by God's created process of evolution) or were miraculously created by God long before humans, whether on this planet, or on the second or the fourth planet from the sun, during some past eon when either or both of those planets was inhabitable.

Some people feel that other inhabited planets in other star systems cannot exist, because God is only going to live with the saved people on this planet (Revelation 21:2-3). But God can live in more than one place at a time (Psalms 139:7-10). Something similar to Revelation 21:2-3 could already be in place on billions of other inhabited planets. For just as the body of each individual believer on this planet is the tabernacle/the temple of God (1 Corinthians 6:19), so each unfallen or regenerated planet could have its own tabernacle/holy city of God. And God can reign in all of them simultaneously, just as he can reign in each believer on the earth simultaneously (John 14:23, Ephesians 3:17).

Some people feel that fallen aliens cannot exist, because the book of life, Hades, the lake of fire, the judgment days, and the third heaven are only for people from this planet. But each fallen planet could have the equivalent of its own book of life, its own Hades, its own lake of fire, its own judgment for the saved only, and its own great white throne judgment. Some fallen planets' judgments could have already occurred billions of years ago, while others may not occur for billions of years after the judgments on this planet occur. Also, each inhabited planet could have its own third heaven, above each planet, in a fourth spatial dimension which is "higher" than the three spatial dimensions which we can see.

Some people feel that fallen aliens cannot exist, because Christ can die for sins only once (Hebrews 10:10), and only for the sins of people on this planet (Hebrews 2:16-17). But just as Christ incarnated as a human on this planet (John 1:1,14), and died once for the sins of humans on this planet, so he could have incarnated as other intelligent life-forms on other fallen planets and died once for them as well. Also, the universe could be so old (some fourteen billion years, while the earth could be some 4.5 billion years old) that many fallen inhabited planets could have already completed their regeneration billions of years ago, with their saved inhabitants having had their sins forgiven by faith in a divine sacrifice on their planet, and their bodies already having been resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortal bodies (which the saved still await on this planet: 1 Corinthians 15:51-53), so that they became like/equal to the angels of God in heaven (cf. Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:36), so that many of the entities which we call "angels" could have started out as what we would call "aliens" on other planets.

If even some unresurrected humans on this planet can sometimes be called "angels" (in the sense of "messengers"; see Luke 7:24 in the original Greek), then some redeemed aliens on other planets who have been resurrected or changed into immortal bodies could have been assigned by God to serve as angels/messengers of God to minister to the unresurrected elect on this planet (cf. Hebrews 1:14). And once the saved on this planet have been resurrected into immortality, and become like/equal to the angels of God in heaven (Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:36), some of them could be assigned by God to other fallen planets which have not yet been regenerated, to serve as angels/messengers of God to minister to the unresurrected elect on those planets.

We really need to get away from every form of geocentrism. Just as it was a mistake for some believers to refuse to accept for so long the fact that the earth is not the physical center of the universe, indeed, is not even the physical center of our solar system, so it is a mistake for some believers to refuse to accept the very real possibility that the earth is not the spiritual center of the universe either, but could be just one of a trillion inhabited planets in the universe, all filled with worshippers of God. And there could be trillions of other universes outside our own, filled with a googolplex of inhabited planets (or other structures which we cannot even imagine). We infinitesimal humans on this one, infinitesimal planet really need to have some sense of humility (Isaiah 40:15,17, Psalms 8:3-4).

Bible2+ said:

Regarding Daniel 9:27, note that back in Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). But a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are militarily defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So this future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a third Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least seven years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the third temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).



In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b,27b, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers from nations throughout the Roman empire (which included the territory of modern-day Lebanon). These soldiers were "the people" in Daniel 9:26, their "prince" being Titus. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem will be destroyed by all the nations of the earth, which will all be under the Antichrist's rule by that time (Revelation 13:7b), when they gather against Jerusalem right before Jesus' second coming (Zechariah 14:2-21).

And just as "the city" in Daniel 9:26 is Jerusalem, so "the sanctuary" is the Jewish temple building in Jerusalem. In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, the second Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, a future, third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:2, Luke 19:44), when Jerusalem is pillaged by all the nations of the earth right before Jesus' second coming to save and restore Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-21).

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I did not say it. It is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34. At the Last Supper Christ said he would bring in this New Covenant with His Blood in Matthew 26:28.

We have to remember that Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.

You have taken a covenant confirmed by the Blood of Christ and have turned it into a treaty broken by an antichrist. You have added an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9 and have added a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel. The 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century when Christ told His disciples to take the Gospel "first" to Daniel's people.

How do we know your interpretation is not correct.

Your interpretation would mean that the angel Gabriel "forgot" to mention the New Covenant already foretold to Jeremiah. Christ is the New Covenant Messiah found in Matthew 1:1.

God is not going back to the Old "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) Sinai covenant during a future time period of 7 years. The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20 and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.

The angel did not forget about the New Covenant when he spoke to Daniel.
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BABerean2 said:

I did not say it. It is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34. At the Last Supper Christ said he would bring in this New Covenant with His Blood in Matthew 26:28.

We have to remember that Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.

You have taken a covenant confirmed by the Blood of Christ and have turned it into a treaty broken by an antichrist. You have added an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9 and have added a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel. The 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century when Christ told His disciples to take the Gospel "first" to Daniel's people.

How do we know your interpretation is not correct.

Your interpretation would mean that the angel Gabriel "forgot" to mention the New Covenant already foretold to Jeremiah. Christ is the New Covenant Messiah found in Matthew 1:1.

God is not going back to the Old "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) Sinai covenant during a future time period of 7 years. The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20 and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.

The angel did not forget about the New Covenant when he spoke to Daniel.
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You practically use the same argument, the same scriptures and the same videos whether you're arguing about apples, oranges, fish, potpourri or the Macarena.

Don't you have any new materials BAB2?













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Psalm3704 said:

Don't you have any new materials BAB2?

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No. Most of my material is about 2,000 years old or older...

Jer_31:31　 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24　 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20　 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25　 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15　 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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BABerean2 said:

No. Most of my material is about 2,000 years old or older...

Jer_31:31　 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24　 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20　 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25　 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15　 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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So are mines.


Jeremiah 31:31-40 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The New Agreement
31 This is what the Lord said, “The time is coming when I will make a new agreement with the family of Israel and with the family of Judah. 32 It will not be like the agreement I made with their ancestors. I made that agreement when I took them by the hand and brought them out of Egypt. I was their master, but they broke that agreement.” This message is from the Lord.

33 “In the future I will make this agreement with the people of Israel.” This message is from the Lord. “I will put my teachings in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 People will not have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people, from the least important to the most important, will know me.” This message is from the Lord. “I will forgive them for the evil things they did. I will not remember their sins.”

The Lord Will Never Leave Israel
35 He makes the sun shine in the day,
and he makes the moon and the stars shine at night.
He stirs up the sea so that its waves crash on the shore.
The Lord All-Powerful is his name.

This is what the Lord says:
36 “The descendants of Israel will never stop being a nation.
That would happen only if I lost control of the sun, moon, stars, and sea.”

37 The Lord says, “I will never reject the descendants of Israel.
That would happen only if people could measure the sky above,
and learn all the secrets of the earth below.
Only then would I reject them for the bad things they have done.”
This message is from the Lord.

The New Jerusalem
38 This message is from the Lord, “The days are coming when the city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt for the Lord. The whole city will be rebuilt—from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The measuring line will stretch from the Corner Gate straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to the place named Goah. 40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown and all the terraces down to the bottom of Kidron Valley all the way to the corner of Horse Gate will be holy to the Lord. The city of Jerusalem will never again be torn down or destroyed.”

Jer 31:31-40 NKJV;ERV - A New Covenant - “Behold, the days - Bible Gateway

The bible said when God makes this covenant with all of Israel (both Kingdoms: Israel and Judah), it will happen at a time when:

1) The descendants of Israel will never stop being a nation. ~ Jeremiah 31:36

2) The days are coming when the city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt for the Lord. The whole city will be rebuilt ~ Jeremiah 31:38

3) The city of Jerusalem will never again be torn down or destroyed. ~ Jeremiah 31:40

Well BAB2. How could this have been fulfilled 2000 years ago or older?










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Psalm3704 said:

Well BAB2. How could this have been fulfilled 2000 years ago or older?

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I have already explained what you do not want to hear.

You are a New Covenant denier, by claiming that Jeremiah 31:31-34 is not fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13 and Hebrews 12:18-24.

In this regard you are like a man who has driven his car off a cliff, and is turning the steering wheel in an attempt to correct himself. You cannot correct your car's path after you have gone off the cliff, into thin air.




You do not seem concerned with getting your doctrine to match the Bible, but instead to make cute remarks, like calling others "padawan" and attempt to force the Bible to match what you want to believe, instead.



Peter addressed the crowd on the Day of Pentecost as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel" and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". You must try to ignore this or see your doctrine fall apart. You cannot admit that those present on the Day of Pentecost were Israelites.

The Jerusalem that Christ built out of two pieces of wood and a handful of nails will never be destroyed. It is found in Hebrews 11:16. However, you must ignore this or see your doctrine come apart. You are looking for a Jerusalem made with human hands, that will last forever.

The nation that Christ built will never be destroyed and is made up of those who accept Him as the "chief cornerstone". It is found in 1 Peter 2:4-10. You must ignore this because you are attempting to give the nation back to those who reject the chief cornerstone found in Matthew chapter 21, instead.

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Guide To The Bible said:

There are no such things as extraterrestrials they are all fallen Angels and demons posing as alien .

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I agree with you on that.Now if we go with the modus operandi of these fallen angels maskerading as alien coming from "outer space" in space ships .

There is no doubt that there is a conditionment going on for years [movies] preparing manking for an eventual contact with "entities" having a superior knowledge ...

There is no doubt that this will be part of the great deception...when Satan and his fallen angels will be cast out of heaven...and they appears as space aliens coming with luminous space ships making the first official contact.

[Note Total speculation....nothing prophetic in the sentence below]
[If] the great sign in the sky of 23 Sept 2017 [is] related to Revelation 12 and the casting of Satan and his fallen angels out of Heaven...then it is possible that we will see lot of activity in our sky...and on earth.

The only question that remain unclear:
What is the purpose of the human/"alien" hybrid program?

Do you have some information about that ?

Riberra said:

I agree with you on that.Now if we go with the modus operandi of these fallen angels maskerading as alien coming from "outer space" in space ships .

There is no doubt that there is a conditionment going on for years [movies] preparing manking for an eventual contact with "entities" having a superior knowledge ...

There is no doubt that this will be part of the great deception...when Satan and his fallen angels will be cast out of heaven...and they appears as space aliens coming with luminous space ships making the first official contact.

[Note Total speculation....nothing prophetic in the sentence below]
[If] the great sign in the sky of 23 Sept 2017 [is] related to Revelation 12 and the casting of Satan and his fallen angels out of Heaven...then it is possible that we will see lot of activity in our sky...and on earth.

The only question that remain unclear:
What is the purpose of the human/"alien" hybrid program?

Do you have some information about that ?

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Based on what I have seen on the History Channel about "Ancient Aliens", etc. I think you guys are on the right track about the great deception. With the video technology that exists now, the powers that be might be able to make most believe that Christ was an alien, etc.

As for the fallen angels, the first part of Revelation chapter 12 is a review of Church history including the birth and death of the man-child, who is Christ and will rule with a rod of iron. This is found in the 2nd Psalm. He destroys the flawed pots with the rod.
The time of the judgment of the dead is at Revelation 11:18. This happens at the Second Coming. The last trumpet is at Revelation 11:15. This is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".

The wicked angels were cast out of heaven a long time ago, based on the following verses.

2Pe_2:4　 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;


Jud_1:6　 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

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BABerean2 said in post 31:

The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

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That is right.

And because of that, salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22b), and the gospel goes to the Jew first (Romans 1:16). It is also why Jesus said Matthew 15:24,26 in the context of being asked to minister to someone who was not of Israel (Matthew 15:22-26). It is also why Gentile believers have been grafted into Israel, so that they can partake of the salvation offered to Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

That is, the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is already fulfilled, even though the prior, millennial prophecy of Jeremiah 31:1-14,16-25 (Jeremiah 31:15 was fulfilled in the first century AD: Matthew 2:17-18) and the other millennial prophecies have not yet been fulfilled. For the making of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31,33) was fulfilled at Jesus' crucifixion (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17), just as its being made with the houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31,33) has been fulfilled (Acts 2:5,36-41, Romans 11:1,17,24). And the New Covenant being not according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32) has been fulfilled (Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17). And the New Covenant law of Jesus being written on the hearts of believers (Jeremiah 31:33) has been fulfilled (Romans 6:17, Ephesians 6:6, Galatians 6:2). And "they shall teach no more every man his neighbour" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:27). And "they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:13). And "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:12).

BABerean2 said in post 31:

You have taken a covenant confirmed by the Blood of Christ and have turned it into a treaty broken by an antichrist.

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Note that Daniel 9:26 can refer to both. For one verse can include two different meanings at the same time. For example, the "son" in Hosea 11:1b referred to the nation of Old Covenant Israel (Exodus 4:22) and its Exodus from Egypt. Also, the "son" in Hosea 11:1b foretold an event in Jesus' life (Matthew 2:14-15,19-21).

Similarly, regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by a future, Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

BABerean2 said in post 31:

You have added an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9 and have added a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

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Note that even in preterism, there was a gap of decades between the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For first century AD Jerusalem was not destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion. Also, there will be a gap of about seven years between the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For the current Jerusalem will not be destroyed until right before and at Jesus' still-unfulfilled second coming (Zechariah 14:2-21), about seven years after the Antichrist "cuts" a seven-year treaty (Daniel 9:26a,27a) with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) who will be ruling Jerusalem at the start (and then during the first half) of the possibly seven-year tribulation.

BABerean2 said in post 31:

God is not going back to the Old "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) Sinai covenant during a future time period of 7 years.

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That is right, the emphasis being on God himself, as opposed to what the ultra-Orthodox Jews may do during a future time.

For on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the second covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and should not keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), while the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Leviticus 23:19), while the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:21-25). So those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, Abraham's son by a bondmaid (Galatians 4:22), who was cast out (Galatians 4:30), while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's son by a freewoman (Galatians 4:22,31), who became his heir (Galatians 4:30b).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the ten commandments) written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8) was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8.

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been completely and forever done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it is still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), while the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8-9b) which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits Christians to remove the veil and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1,5), or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any Christians are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

Psalm3704 said in post 32 (in the signature):

How can there be a post trib rapture when the elects are gather from heaven? People go up in a rapture, they don't come down.

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Note that Matthew 24:31's parallel verse of Mark 13:27 shows that the church will be gathered together from both heaven and earth.

The way this will work is: 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show that at Jesus' second coming, the souls of all obedient dead believers of all times will be brought down from the third heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and their souls will descend to the earth, and their physical bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all believers who will survive the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth (those who will still be "alive and remain") will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a), and then they will be gathered together from the sky (the first heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be in the clouds above Jerusalem, before he descends to set his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12).

It is because of this second-coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), that the obedient part of the church will already be with Jesus when he subsequently descends from the sky (the first heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then physically reign on the earth for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).