Are we in the last of the last days?

parousia70

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Jesus obviously had the authority to correctly declare which prophesy's were completed and which were not.

As Did His apostles.

Today we can interpret which prophesy's are still to be fulfilled and how. This interpretation is something that can be learned, all you need is the Holy Spirit, time and the internet, where we have all the information we need. God has brought this situation about in order to fulfil prophesy. The Holy Spirit is the key to making the correct interpretation of prophesy, this takes time and much study of scripture.

So what happens when two people who have the Holy Spirit, the internet, time and scripture study come to completely different conclusions?
 
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Guide To The Bible

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As Did His apostles.

No, the disciples did not have anywhere near the authority Jesus had regarding understanding prophecy.

So what happens when two people who have the Holy Spirit, the internet, time and scripture study come to completely different conclusions?

That's just the point I am making. If you have the Holy Spirit, time to study and the internet then you can interpret and discern which one is correct.
 
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parousia70

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No, the disciples did not have anywhere near the authority Jesus had regarding understanding prophecy.

The scriptural record is clear that apostles indeed had the God given authority to correctly interpret prophesy.
To suggest otherwise is simply unfounded.
You are absolutely wrong in that assertion.
The Holy Spirit, the internet and scripture study confirm to me that you are 100% wrong about this.

That's just the point I am making. If you have the Holy Spirit, time to study and the internet then you can interpret and discern which one is correct.

I have and I do.
Your interpretation is not correct.
 
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Guide To The Bible

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The scriptural record is clear that apostles indeed correctly interpreted prophesy.
To suggest otherwise is simply unfounded.
You are absolutely wrong in that assertion.
The Holy Spirit, the internet and scripture study confirm to me that you are 100% wrong about this.

I have and I do.
Your interpretation is not correct.

Belief about ones theology changes over time with study. We are always learning and changing our interpretation of prophecy. The closer ones understanding of end time prophecy is to the true interpretation, the better prepared one is of course. It also means that those who understand best how the end times will play out will also be the ones who God will use to teach other's, however, there in lies the paradoxical problem and that is interpretation of prophecy and ones belief in there own current understanding of it, as this often leads people to believe that what they currently know is right and correct. Belief is a funny thing but we will all be judged on it, it is the only fair way however for God to judge who follows his teachings the best.
 
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parousia70

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Belief about ones theology changes over time with study. We are always learning and changing our interpretation of prophecy. The closer ones understanding of end time prophecy is to the true interpretation, the better prepared one is of course. It also means that those who understand best how the end times will play out will also be the ones who God will use to teach other's, however, there in lies the paradoxical problem and that is interpretation of prophecy and ones belief in there own current understanding of it, as this often leads people to believe that what they currently know is right and correct. Belief is a funny thing but we will all be judged on it, it is the only fair way however for God to judge who follows his teachings the best.

And so we come full circle..
As we peel back the onion that is your view, it appears your position in reality is that there is no way to tell for certain who today can correctly interpret prophesy for sure.

That's why I stick with the Apostolic view.

When I am faced with two opposing views, for example, yours vs. the apostles, and I need to discern which one is correct, Fallible Internet guy "Guide to the Bible" or the Infallible, Holy Inspired Apostolic writ, I side with the Apostles, Every time.
 
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And so we come full circle..
As we peel back the onion that is your view, it appears your position in reality is that there is no way to tell for certain who today can correctly interpret prophesy for sure.

That's why I stick with the Apostolic view.

When I am faced with two opposing views, for example, yours vs. the apostles, and I need to discern which one is correct, Fallible Internet guy "Guide to the Bible" or the Infallible, Holy Inspired Apostolic writ, I side with the Apostles, Every time.
Ahhr but what was the apostles interpretation of end times prophesy? Answer that..
 
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parousia70

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Ahhr but what was the apostles interpretation of end times prophesy? Answer that..
1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

8. "....the age about to come." (Matt. 12:32)

9. "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds." (Matt. 16:27)

10. "There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)

12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

13. "From now on, you [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:69)

14. "The kingdom of God is at hand." (Mk. 1:15)

15. "What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others. ....They [the chief priests, scribes and elders] understood that He spoke the parable against them." (Mk. 12:9,12)

16. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30)

17. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Lk. 3:7)

18. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees. " (Lk. 3:9)

19. "His winnowing fork is in His hand…." (Lk. 3:17)

20. “The kingdom of God has come near to you.” (Lk. 10:9)

21. “The kingdom of God has come near.” (Lk. 10:11)

22. “What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others." …The scribes and the chief priests …understood that He spoke this parable against them.” (Lk. 20:15-16,19)

23. “These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Lk. 21:22)

24. "This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32)

25. "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.'” (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

26. "We were hoping that He was the One who is about to redeem Israel.” (Lk. 24:21)

27. "I will come to you. …In that Day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.' …'Lord, what then has happened that You are about to disclose Yourself to us, and not to the world?'" (Jn. 14:18,20,22)

28. "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" (Jn. 21:22)

29. “This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'And it shall be in the last days…'” (Acts 2:16-17)

30. “He has fixed a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness…” (Acts 17:31)

31. “There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)

32. “As he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment about to come…" (Acts 24:25)

33. “Not for [Abraham's] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for our sake also, to whom it is about to be reckoned.” (Rom. 4:23-24)

34. “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)

35. “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)

36. "It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand." (Rom. 13:11-12)

37. “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

38. “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

39. “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)

40. “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)

41. “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)

42. "Maranatha!" [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)

43. "...not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)

44. “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)

45. "The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)

46. “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)

47. “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)

48. “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)

49. “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7) [published by PreteristArchive.com]

50. “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8)

51. “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)

52. “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)

53. “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)

54. “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)

55. “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)

56. “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)

57. “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)

58. “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)

59. "For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it's end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8)

60. “When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)

61. “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)

62. “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)

63. “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)

64. “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)

65. “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)

66. “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)

67. “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)

68. “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

69. "Speak and so act, as those who are about to be judged by the law of liberty." (Jms. 2:12)

70. “Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. …It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!” (Jms. 5:1,3)

71. “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.” (Jms. 5:7)

72. “You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)

73. “…salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:6)

74. “He …has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” (I Peter 1:20)

75. “They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (I Peter 4:5)

76. “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.” (I Peter 4:7)

77. "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.” (I Peter 4:17)

78. “…as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed.” (I Peter 5:1)

79. “We have the prophetic word …which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.” (II Peter 1:19)

80. “Their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (II Peter 2:3)

81. “In the last days mockers will come. …For this they willingly are ignorant of…” (I Peter 3:3,5)

82. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God.” (II Peter 3:10-12)

83. “The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.” (I Jn. 2:8)

84. “The world is passing away, and its desires.” (I Jn. 2:17)

85. “It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

86. “Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18; Compare Matt. 24:23-34)

87. “This is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” (I Jn. 4:3; Compare II Thess. 2:7)

88. “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation. …About these also Enoch …prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly…'” (Jude 1:4,14-15)

89. “But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, 'In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.' These are the ones who cause divisions…” (Jude 1:17-19)

90. “…to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 1:1)

91. “The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

92. “Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.” (Rev. 2:25)

93. “I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

94. “I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

95. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

96. "And in her [the Great City Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24; Compare Matt. 23:35-36; Lk. 11:50-51)

97. “…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

98. "Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

99. "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26)

100. "Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

101. "Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)

All of these passages stand in direct conflict with the interpretation you have presented.
 
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Guide To The Bible

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1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

8. "....the age about to come." (Matt. 12:32)

9. "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds." (Matt. 16:27)

10. "There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)

12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

13. "From now on, you [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:69)

14. "The kingdom of God is at hand." (Mk. 1:15)

15. "What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others. ....They [the chief priests, scribes and elders] understood that He spoke the parable against them." (Mk. 12:9,12)

16. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30)

17. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Lk. 3:7)

18. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees. " (Lk. 3:9)

19. "His winnowing fork is in His hand…." (Lk. 3:17)

20. “The kingdom of God has come near to you.” (Lk. 10:9)

21. “The kingdom of God has come near.” (Lk. 10:11)

22. “What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others." …The scribes and the chief priests …understood that He spoke this parable against them.” (Lk. 20:15-16,19)

23. “These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Lk. 21:22)

24. "This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32)

25. "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.'” (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

26. "We were hoping that He was the One who is about to redeem Israel.” (Lk. 24:21)

27. "I will come to you. …In that Day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.' …'Lord, what then has happened that You are about to disclose Yourself to us, and not to the world?'" (Jn. 14:18,20,22)

28. "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" (Jn. 21:22)

29. “This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'And it shall be in the last days…'” (Acts 2:16-17)

30. “He has fixed a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness…” (Acts 17:31)

31. “There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)

32. “As he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment about to come…" (Acts 24:25)

33. “Not for [Abraham's] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for our sake also, to whom it is about to be reckoned.” (Rom. 4:23-24)

34. “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)

35. “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)

36. "It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand." (Rom. 13:11-12)

37. “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

38. “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

39. “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)

40. “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)

41. “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)

42. "Maranatha!" [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)

43. "...not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)

44. “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)

45. "The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)

46. “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)

47. “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)

48. “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)

49. “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7) [published by PreteristArchive.com]

50. “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8)

51. “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)

52. “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)

53. “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)

54. “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)

55. “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)

56. “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)

57. “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)

58. “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)

59. "For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it's end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8)

60. “When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)

61. “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)

62. “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)

63. “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)

64. “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)

65. “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)

66. “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)

67. “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)

68. “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

69. "Speak and so act, as those who are about to be judged by the law of liberty." (Jms. 2:12)

70. “Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. …It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!” (Jms. 5:1,3)

71. “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.” (Jms. 5:7)

72. “You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)

73. “…salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:6)

74. “He …has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” (I Peter 1:20)

75. “They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (I Peter 4:5)

76. “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.” (I Peter 4:7)

77. "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.” (I Peter 4:17)

78. “…as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed.” (I Peter 5:1)

79. “We have the prophetic word …which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.” (II Peter 1:19)

80. “Their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (II Peter 2:3)

81. “In the last days mockers will come. …For this they willingly are ignorant of…” (I Peter 3:3,5)

82. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God.” (II Peter 3:10-12)

83. “The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.” (I Jn. 2:8)

84. “The world is passing away, and its desires.” (I Jn. 2:17)

85. “It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

86. “Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18; Compare Matt. 24:23-34)

87. “This is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” (I Jn. 4:3; Compare II Thess. 2:7)

88. “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation. …About these also Enoch …prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly…'” (Jude 1:4,14-15)

89. “But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, 'In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.' These are the ones who cause divisions…” (Jude 1:17-19)

90. “…to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 1:1)

91. “The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

92. “Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.” (Rev. 2:25)

93. “I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

94. “I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

95. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

96. "And in her [the Great City Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24; Compare Matt. 23:35-36; Lk. 11:50-51)

97. “…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

98. "Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

99. "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26)

100. "Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

101. "Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)

All of these passages stand in direct conflict with the interpretation you have presented.

I asked about the interpretation of prophesy, do you have any scriptures where the apostles interpret how end times prophesy plays out?
 
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parousia70

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I asked about the interpretation of prophesy, do you have any scriptures where the apostles interpret how end times prophesy plays out?

Perhaps a careful re-read of the passages I presented above would serve to enlighten you.
 
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Perhaps a careful re-read of the passages I presented above would serve to enlighten you.
I think you and I have a different definition of interpretation: 'the action of explaining the meaning of something or an explanation or way of explaining'.
 
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parousia70

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I think you and I have a different definition of interpretation: 'the action of explaining the meaning of something or an explanation or way of explaining'.

You mean like this?:

Acts 2: 5-17
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.


16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The people were confused as to what was Happening.
Peter infallibly interprets it for them and discloses that what they were witnessing was the Fulfillment of the Last Days Prophesy that was spoken of by the Prophet Joel.
 
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You mean like this?:

Acts 2: 5-17
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.


16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The people were confused as to what was Happening.
Peter infallibly interprets it for them and discloses that what they were witnessing was the Fulfillment of the Last Days Prophesy that was spoken of by the Prophet Joel.

That's more like it but Peter only gets it half right because this prophesy is a double prophesy which will have a fuller realisation just before Jesus returns. Can you think of any more?
 
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parousia70

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That's more like it but Peter only gets it half right because this prophesy is a double prophesy which will have a fuller realisation just before Jesus returns.

So you DO agree that Peter was Living in "the Last Days" then?

Can you think of any more?
Sure.
But first, If we are going to play.... You get to take a turn.

What Prophesy does Jesus claim to have fulfilled here:

John 7:38
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Also, what event do you believe fulfilled THIS prophesy?:

11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)
 
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So you DO agree that Peter was Living in "the Last Days" then?

Depends how one defines 'last days', some say we've been in the last days since Christ's death and resurrection, other's say it refer's to the last 7 years of Daniels 70th week, before Jesus returns. Others say it's the last 3.5 years. And yet other's say we are in the last days now because of all the signs we are now seeing, even though we are clearly not in the last 7 years. The Bible is not 100% clear on this point but imho I tend to see it as the last 7 years but I'm not dogmatic.

(BTW The 'quote' thing hasn't worked properly?)

[/QUOTE]What Prophesy does Jesus claim to have fulfilled here:
John 7:38
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.[/QUOTE]

Well, this is off of our topic of what prophecys did the apostles interpret but I have personally experienced the above and it is an amazing feeling and Jesus was literally describing what one can experience when one believes in Him. It literally feels like streams of water (living water) flowing up from within your belly and when I felt it, it poured out of the sides of my body.

However, you are quite right that Jesus fulfilled prophesy here, because this was the last and greatest day of the feast of Tabernacles - Day 22 of month 7 (Tishri). It is known as Simchat Torah, which means ‘rejoicing in the law’. As with many other notable feasts and Holy days Jesus fulfilled this day too:

John 7:37-41
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have rivers of living water flowing from his heart.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time
the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. 40 On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.” 41 Others said, “He is the Messiah.”

This was Jesus’ official public announcement that through Himself and unto all His believers that the promise of the Holy Spirit would be fulfilled.

[/QUOTE]Also, what event do you believe fulfilled THIS prophesy?:
11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)[/QUOTE]

This is off our topic too but..

As Jesus says the Pharisees were those wicked vineyard owners and this prophesy is a treble prophesy which had a partial fulfilment in 70 AD when God allowed the Jews nation to be almost destroyed and the time of the gentiles and the church began. The second fulfilment of this prophecy will be when Jesus returns and destroys what remains on Earth to make way for His Millennium rule. The third and last time will be at the end of the 1000 years when God makes a new Heaven and a Earth for us.

[/QUOTE]Sure.

But first, If we are going to play.... You get to take a turn.[/QUOTE]

Okay, one that comes to mind is Paul's interpretation of the Daniels man of sin:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The verses Paul was alluding to were (but not limited to):

Daniel 11
36“The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. 37 He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. 38 Instead of them, he will honour a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his ancestors he will honour with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honour those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price. 40“At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. 41 He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. 42 He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape. 43 He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and all the riches of Egypt, with the Libyans and Cushites in submission. 44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. 45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.

Daniel 7
24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. 26“ ‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

Daniel 9
24“Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25“Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,f the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”

Paul states:

"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God"

And;

"that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed"

And:

"And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time."

And:

"For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed"

And:

"For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie"

Here Paul, the greatest theologian amongst the apostles who wrote about 32 % of the new testament, more than any one else, and studied under Gamaliel, probably the greatest Rabbi ever (apart from Jesus), attempts to interpret Daniel's prophecys about the man of sin. Notice however that we only get a little more information on the subject:

The man of sin will call himself god

A rebellion (falling away) will happen before the man of sin is revealed.

Something is holding back the man of sin from being revealed.

A powerful delusion will cause the rebellion (falling away)

This is great but it's not much and he makes no attempt at interpreting the final 7 year time line and how that fits into the events Daniel describes. Don't get me wrong, Paul had limited information at hand. i.e. the OT (Scroll) and his memory of this and other teachings from the other disciples about what Jesus had said, but today we have far more scriptures to go by (Revelations being the big one) along with many other eschatological teachings to help us to interpret what Daniel was telling us (all at the touch of a button in our modern homes with far more leisure time than ever before in history). Also, as we are so close to the end now, we can make far more detail interpretations than anyone could have ever hope to of done 1900 years ago.

This is the best one I can think of but there is another one at least I can think of, off the top of my head. Can you?
 
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You're the only one who thinks Paradise is a place in hell. You're also the only one who thinks Jesus sent the thief on the cross to hell.
Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. If he was only resurrected 3 days later, then you have the TODAY all wrong.
Are you a new Christian? Have you ever heard of the trinity?
No, have you? Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Jesus Christ" or 'the Lord Jesus,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."
At first the Christian Faith was not Trinitarian. . . It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and other early Christian writings. The Encyclopedia of Religion And Ethics
Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity. The Encyclopedia of Religion
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament. . . "is not. . . directly and immediately the word of God." The New Catholic Encyclopedia
There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a Trinity within the Godhead. . . Even to see in the Old Testament suggestions or foreshadowings or 'veiled signs' of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers. Jesuit Edmund Fortman The "Triune God"
Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament. The Encyclopedia of Religion The New Encyclopedia Britannica
The New Testament does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology
Where is God? Is God in hell for 3 days and nights after Christ died on the cross?
Based on the thief's request, Christ is primarily telling the thief "today he will be in paradise."
42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” [/quote]
Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. If he was only resurrected 3 days later, then you have the TODAY all wrong.
No John did not say "no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven."
Plus there's a difference between ascending to heaven, gone to heaven and being in heaven. Learn what Jesus was talking about.
LEARN Koine Greek! καὶ οὐδεὶς NO ONE ἀναβέβηκεν has ascended or has gone up εἰς into τὸν οὐρανὸν heaven εἰ μὴ except if not ὁ the [one] ἐκ out of τοῦ οὐρανοῦ heaven καταβάς, having come down,
Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. If he was only resurrected 3 days later, then you have the TODAY all wrong.
King James Bible
Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
 
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John says no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven I think you have not only struck out, you have need to get milk to get you anywhere.

No John did not say "no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven."

Who was talking to Nicodemus? You think John? :doh:

Isn't it amazing you think John was the one talking to Nicodemus. ROFL!!!

John 3:10-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

These are basic Sunday school materials. How is it that you do not know who was talking to Nicodemus? Are you not the teacher of Israel and do not know these things?

Revelation 11:11-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

Are you not the teacher of Israel and do not know these things? Matthew 3:10.









.
 
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Very soon Satan himself will appear on Earth looking just like Jesus but he will claim to be Isa, the Muslim name for Jesus and will say the Muslims are right and the Christians are wrong.

I also believe that God will allow Satan to appear on Earth. This will happen for the last five months of the appointed time of the end prior to the second coming. But I doubt that the Muslims will have any involvement. Paul"s "man" of sin will have his 42 months of authority, but he'll only be let out of the abyss and be revealed for the last 5 months of that time.

While I agree to abide to the rules I wonder what others here feel about date setting and the censorship of this subject?

The owners of the forum can do whatever they want, it's their forum. I wish that I had bought it before they changed to this new software but I never knew that it was for sale. Still, using the Firefox browser with the right add-ons, like Add blocker plus, I can make it tolerable. Add blocker does more than just block the adds. With the select element feature I can remove various items from the web page with an element hiding rule. I'm still using an old Fisher Price computer with XP so this lets the page load quicker. I had to say bye bye to my old Opera browser though, it just wouldn't work with this forum.

As far as moderators or censorship allowing freedom of speech, this is still the best forum for that. Try rapture ready sometime and you'll see what I mean, they're like a cult.

After all Daniel was a date setter as he accurately stated that Gabriel had told him that 483 years after a decree, allowing for the walls of Jerusalem to be rebuilt, was be given; That the Messiah would come. This allowed the wise men (who were wise!) to know when our saviour would be born. If they hadn't of listen to this date setter then Joseph and Mary would never have gotten the gold from them that allowed them to escape to safety in Egypt, for long enough to save Jesus from being killed by Herod and it would have meant that you, I and everyone would now be going to Hell when we die.

He also told him that 49 years after an alternative decree, the Messiah would come again. If a second coming was required. But I can't go to hell when I die. I'm a Calvinist, one of the Elect. I was picked by the Father from before the foundation of the universe to follow the Lamb wherever He goes..

And I'm a date setter too, I can't help it. I've got the dates. I just don't go around blabbing them out all the time. Most people don't like it for a couple of reasons that I can think of. They think that we're violating Jesus' instructions that NO MAN CAN KNOW THE DAY OR THE HOUR. And NOBODY and I mean NOBODY wants to hear that the end of the world is here. That's bad news. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

I looked at your date and at some of the material from motsog after you had posted it the other day. I think that it's going to be way sooner. Way sooner. There's too many faithful witnesses that can never be reproduced again. Your date was out of the ball park. I would be far more worried about telling people that our Master is delayed right now, telling them that it will be 5 or 10 years from now because it could all start tomorrow. Be silent before the Day of the Lord.

God gives wisdom to the wise, He reveals the deep and the hidden things. If He wanted you to tell everybody, He would have instructed you to do so. Not every one wants to know. I'm very sure about the things that I have found but I can't say that it would be for everyone to know. My real brother is a prime example, he does NOT want to talk about it. I don't think that it should be our job to throw it in people's faces at a public forum.

I had encountered a negative reaction the other day from a person and then prepared this big long post with too much evidence and too much of the specifics. Then after staring at the material for a couple of days I just couldn't send it. It was just too much, and I was glad that I didn't send it. Still, it should always be a prudent idea to keep a few weeks of supplies on hand. Battery operated radio, flashlights and granola bars. Those kinds of things.

And who knows, we might enjoy another spring and we might enjoy another summer. Why spoil it?

"It will be as eternal as the moon, my faithful witness in the sky!"
 
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he-man

he-man
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No John did not say "no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven.
Then open your mind to understand the Scriptures
LEARN Koine Greek! καὶ οὐδεὶς NO ONE ἀναβέβηκεν has ascended or has gone up εἰς into τὸν οὐρανὸν heaven εἰ μὴ except if not ὁ the [one] ἐκ out of τοῦ οὐρανοῦ heaven καταβάς, having come down,
Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day when he died and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. If he was only resurrected 3 days later, so you have the TODAY all wrong. LUKE 24:45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead
King James Bible
Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Take it from Heman, the SEER:
2 Chronicles 35:15 And the singers the sons of Asaph were in their place, according to the commandment of David, and Asaph, and Heman, and Jeduthun the king's seer; and the porters waited at every gate; they might not depart from their service; for their brethren the Levites prepared for them.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
 
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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
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I see a great multitude in heaven.
They are the martyrs, murdered for their faith. Their souls are kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11 and they are allowed to cry out at times.
Plainly obvious from Revelation 19:2, where they praise God for taking vengeance for their blood.
I repeat: Any rapture to heaven is wrong and unbiblical.
 
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