Hello Keystone pipeline

JGG said:

Yes, and it will still be cheaper to import from Canada than the Middle East if Canada decides to raise prices.

Click to expand...

If Canada raises the prices, then the commodity of buying their oil ceases to be. And as such, they would shoot themselves in their own foot. Having the option, and weaning ourselves away from Middle East oil cartels can only be a good thing.

Either are truck drivers. We're going to be firing a whole bunch of them.
[...]
Well, we could have the pipeline and lay of drivers, or not have one and employ drivers.

Click to expand...

And again, the cost of trucking and it's limits on production make development far less appetizing... And perhaps to the point of being unpalatable, especially at the lower cost of oil we now enjoy... A highly efficient system is what is going to make those oils sands profitable at all - Remember not too long ago how they were flirting with shutting it down?

Because it's cheaper due to the fact they need employ fewer people.

Click to expand...

In part, but not really - It's cheaper because they can afford more production - They can produce more at a cheaper cost. Which is in reality why they can do it at all.

Really. Why are Canadians preferable to Arabs?

Click to expand...

I don't know how many terrorist entities the Canadians are funding - Terrorists out to kill us, mind you, but I am absolutely certain is it less than the Saudis are funding.

JonFromMinnesota said:

Ask Kansas how that worked out for them. Spoiler alert, they're ranked 50th in economic growth after their governor said they were going to show off their conservative economic experiment. Well....it failed miserably. They had to gut infrastructure and education trying to make up for the massive deficit.

The massively rich don't spend their tax savings or higher profits on new jobs. They save it or hand out bigger bonuses and dividends to shareholders. Do you know who spends money? The middle and lower class.

I really wonder how long republican voters are going to fall for this trickle down lie.

Click to expand...

What I know is that it takes fat-cat developers to purchase land to open a subdivision. I know that developer goes through all the legal hoops, improves that land with roads and utilities in order to sell parcels to the general contractors, who then employ many subcontractors to build their houses.

The middle class doesn't have the fortitude to bring something like that online. It takes bags and bags of money. But the middle class general contractors and subcontractors reap riches because that fat cat was willing to risk it.

That is how it works, without question. And it is how it has always worked, since the middle class came to be. Else-wise you would still have only fat cats (feudal lords) and the poor (serfs)... which is what you are advocating, whether you know it or not.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Except some Indian don't want it. It could contaminate their air, land and water. I don't believe they are happy about this at all. That's why I said they would be screwed all over again.

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what they want. Just like a freeway going through, or a drainage canal. It is going to happen. They know that. This is politics and staging to increase their end of it.

tulc said:

You're complaining about people complaining about other peoples land being taken/destroyed because you think if the same thing happened to you no one would complain? doesn't that mean you've just tried to make this situation about you? How you're upset because people didn't come to help you in your hour of fictional need?
tulc(suspects he's going to need more coffee soon)

Click to expand...

No I am not. I am complaining about the rank hypocrisy of it all. Freeways go in all the time, as do pipelines, and railroads, and canals, and so on. No hue and cry, no bleeding hearts... The only thing that makes this any different is the scale.

This is nothing new, and it is what eminent domain is for. I want developers to make money, because that means they are hiring a huge workforce to do it. That means big good jobs for Americans.

rturner76 said:

Here's the thing though. If you start taking liberties with the word "utility" you could say it's "anything useful" by dictionary standards. No I think utility here should be used as is it "useful" to the people in that area.

Click to expand...

That's always going to be the divide. And some things desired by government, be it the state, the fed, or the res, are not going to be popular to the locals. Mayberry doesn't like it when a freeway comes through, any more than the res likes it when a pipeline goes through.

And 9 times out of 10, it's going to go through anyway, because it HAS to

All the other examples, rail, roads, mail stations,are serving the local community where it is built. If we start applying it to "useful," in the broad sense, we may just as well throw out the treaty. A wind farm is "useful" so is a leather tannery, or a tire factory. But would you want it on your reservation next to where your kids play?

Click to expand...

And here we are with the 'not in my back yard' argument... It's legit, and that's why there's friction, but don;t think it's going to stop it if they cannot find another way.

I think a work of utility is a flimsy leg to stand on when trying to get around this treaty and build an oil pipeline.

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what you think, or what I think for that matter. It will be decided in court, like every other thing. But I bet I can tell you whose gonna win...

And the res government knows it too. What they are doing (if there is no other option for the developers) is making it pay...

roamer_1 said:

No I am not. I am complaining about the rank hypocrisy of it all. Freeways go in all the time, as do pipelines, and railroads, and canals, and so on. No hue and cry, no bleeding hearts... The only thing that makes this any different is the scale.

This is nothing new, and it is what eminent domain is for. I want developers to make money, because that means they are hiring a huge workforce to do it. That means big good jobs for Americans.

Click to expand...

uhmmm...that's not what you said in your post though was it? You said:

I responded to what you said, not what you came up with after I asked you about what you said.
tulc(is going to need more coffee soon)

roamer_1 said:

That's always going to be the divide. And some things desired by government, be it the state, the fed, or the res, are not going to be popular to the locals. Mayberry doesn't like it when a freeway comes through, any more than the res likes it when a pipeline goes through.

And 9 times out of 10, it's going to go through anyway, because it HAS to

Click to expand...

That's the thing. It isn't Mayberry. It is a piece of land set aside for the use of the tribe specifically. That is what they signed the treaty for. To keep the USA off of the land. Mayberry does not have a treaty like that. They are a municipality of the American government so of course they should be able to build a freeway there. Actually, the original plan was to build it closer to the city but since the people of that city spoke out, it was moved. Why are their rights to clean water respected over the tribes? Yup, you guessed it, government sanctioned racism.

roamer_1 said:

It doesn't matter what you think, or what I think for that matter. It will be decided in court, like every other thing. But I bet I can tell you whose gonna win...

Click to expand...

This statement sadly is likely true. The United States racist policies have been stepping on the rights of the indigenous people of this land for centuries, why would they stop the corruption, theft, pollution, and genocidal policies now?

roamer_1 said:

If Canada raises the prices, then the commodity of buying their oil ceases to be. And as such, they would shoot themselves in their own foot. Having the option, and weaning ourselves away from Middle East oil cartels can only be a good thing.

Click to expand...

Maybe they should give the USA a 20 percent tax hike.

roamer_1 said:

It doesn't matter what they want. Just like a freeway going through, or a drainage canal. It is going to happen. They know that. This is politics and staging to increase their end of it.

Click to expand...

Yes. Sadly the possibility of an oil leak contaminating the water and air means nothing. They don't want it in their water and it shouldn't be in the water. If history has taught us anything.