Happiness in Heaven while Loved Ones Fry in Hell?

Lazarus Short

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I have a demon bothering me, and one of the main things it tells me is something similar to what the OP said.

"How will you worship God genuinely or be happy in Heaven as your friends and family are being tortured forever in Hell?"

I don't know how to even get over this issue. It's messing with my faith big time because I feel I wouldn't be able to love God with my whole heart if he was burning my family in flames forever if that's what happens. I'm hoping Hell is not an eternal flame pit.

I can only suggest that you search the Scriptures to see if Hell is true. Look into other translations than the KJV, look into a good Concordance, look into interlinear versions (available on the www), look into the origins of the word "Hell." I spent two years doing just that, and today I just laugh at Hell. Under critical scrutiny, Hell disperses like a mist.
 
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Der Alte

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A better question is to ignore the implication of the verse - if God had made, or was going to make, Hell, then He could NOT have made the statement He did in that verse. An obvious implication to me is a distortion to you, and why is that? Your theology should follow the Scriptures - the reverse does not work unless you really do distort the text.
Non sequitur. Jeremiah 25:35 has nothing to do with end times and God's punishment at those times. Why would God say anything about end time events when talking to the prophet Jeremiah, in his own time, about Israel's rebelling against Him and turning to idol worship?
Verses where Jesus addresses eternal punishment.
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 13:50
Matthew 17:21-23
Matthew 18:6
Matthew 25:41
Matthew 25:46
Matthew 26:24
Mark 9:43-48
Revelation 21:8

 
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Hillsage

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I have a demon bothering me, and one of the main things it tells me is something similar to what the OP said.
Might need to 'discern the spirit' better. Might not be a demon. Might just be the Holy Spirit like it was for me 40 years ago.

I don't know how to even get over this issue. It's messing with my faith big time because I feel I wouldn't be able to love God with my whole heart if he was burning my family in flames forever if that's what happens. I'm hoping Hell is not an eternal flame pit.
Not eternal and not a carnal minded flame at all, just the same kind of spiritual fire, we're all going to receive IF; we receive "the baptism of the Holy Ghost and FIRE", or if you're salted with FIRE like EVERYBODY", or if you just need a bit more purifying after you die as a CHRISTIAN who never achieved 'Overcomer' status and are finally SAVED by FIRE.

MAT 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

MAR 9:49 For every one will be salted with fire.

1CO 3:12-15; 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

And what's God's loving and ultimate purpose for all of his creation? I think the last verse pretty much sums it up.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Non sequitur. Jeremiah 25:35 has nothing to do with end times and God's punishment at those times. Why would God say anything about end time events when talking to the prophet Jeremiah, in his own time, about Israel's rebelling against Him and turning to idol worship?

What I said is a non sequitur only to one who does not appreciate that this same God states that He does not change, nor in Him is even the shadow of turning. My theology portrays a more kindly, more truthful, Deity than that of the Damnationists. Proof-text Christianity always runs into this sort of inconsistency...
 
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Lazarus Short

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“Verses where Jesus addresses eternal punishment.”

[all Bible quotes from the KJV]

Matthew 13:42

“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” No problem – God characterizes Himself as a refining fire (and as soap) many times in His Word. The “furnace of fire” could be the Lake of Fire or Hell, but it is not specified. the wailing & gnashing are just reactions to the fate, whatever it is. This verse makes just as much sense to the Salvation of All as it does to Damnationism.


Matthew 13:50

“And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Same story here…


Matthew 17:21-23

“Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.” Does this have anything to do with our Question?

Matthew 18:6

“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Again, this does not address our Question, except perhaps in a tangential way. The fate of someone who did the deed Jesus mentioned is not stated, so anyone can fill in the blank. I fill it in with punishment and further refining, and others read Hell into it. However, the fate and its duration is not given to us.


Matthew 25:41

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” There is just no reason to think this fire is anything other than the Lake of Fire, given who is in it. As to the duration, I know by now that we will just continue to disagree.


Matthew 25:46

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” OK, same comment as per 25:41.


Matthew 26:24

“The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.” Jesus did not care to specify the details (duration, place of punishment, nature of punishment, if there was punishment), so I don’t care to either – it would be to put words in His mouth.


Mark 9:43-48

“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” I’m not going to fall into any Gehenna trap here. In my view, Jesus is simply telling His hearers that it is better to be born (enter into life) minus a part or two, than to be born whole and end up executed and denied a decent burial. He even goes on to say that it is even better to cut a part or two off than to remain whole and risk of life of sin and crime and, again, end up executed and denied a decent burial. There is no need to bring Hell into it unless you already believe in Hell.


Revelation 21:8

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” That looks really final when you read it, but it is not the end of the story. This wicked group is not left in the lake, but refer back to First Corinthians 15:24-26 - “Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God…when he shall have put down all rule and authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” With death destroyed, the Lake of Fire MUST give up its dead, just as the sea and the grave did so long before. This leads me to three critical questions:


1. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell after Death itself has been destroyed?


2. With Death destroyed, will the Lake of Fire not give up its dead?


3. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell if God is going to become All in all? (I Corinthians 15:28).
 
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Gabriel Anton

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You can define words and quote and misinterpret scripture until you are blue in the face and it would never convince me that an entity that you describe as establishing torturing humans forever via roasting them alive as punishment for exercising their free will is to be admired, imitated and worshipped.

Now if you had suggested that such an abusive a sadistic entity be nuked out of existence-and that the the universe would need to be rid of the abomination that you are describing-then I would have wholeheartedly agreed and please note-I am NOT referring to God since I don't consider God capable of such a crime. Humans? You bet! The Devil? Certainly! But my God? NEVER! So it is this twisted defamatory, character-denigrating concept that I am referring to and nothing more.

BTW
This idea is a million times worse than what Satan accused him of in Eden!


Peace be with you.

You sound very tough with your brave talk about nuking Almighty God. But I am afraid for you that you will come out second best.

You know it is easy to worship a Fairy Tale God.

I have not used and quoted Scripture in the last post. You were supposed to produce Scripture verses which state:

There is No Hell.

There is No Abyss.

There is No Netherworld.


I have not seen anybody producing any such verses from Scripture.


Verses of Scriptures supporting Existence of the Netherworld, Hell, Hades:

NIV Revelations C1
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

KJV Revelations C1
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


NABRE Revelations C1
17 When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead.[p] He touched me with his right hand and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last, 18 the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever. I hold the keys to death and the netherworld.

DRA Revelations C1
17 And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last,
18 And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell.


God bless you.
 
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Radrook

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Peace be with you.

You sound very tough with your brave talk about nuking Almighty God. But I am afraid for you that you will come out second best.

You know it is easy to worship a Fairy Tale God.

I have not used and quoted Scripture in the last post. You were supposed to produce Scripture verses which state:

There is No Hell.

There is No Abyss.

There is No Netherworld.


I have not seen anybody producing any such verses from Scripture.


Verses of Scriptures supporting Existence of the Netherworld, Hell, Hades:

NIV Revelations C1
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

KJV Revelations C1
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


NABRE Revelations C1
17 When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead.[p] He touched me with his right hand and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last, 18 the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever. I hold the keys to death and the netherworld.

DRA Revelations C1
17 And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last,
18 And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell.


God bless you.


Honesty in this case doesn't involve toughness-just honesty. What does involve presumptuous toughness or foolhardiness would be to depict God in a manner which constitutes an affront to his holiness. Why? Well, because that would displease him and when God is displeased with how he is being described then the person doing the describing runs the risk of incurring his wrath.

Fortunately, his wrath does not entail punishing people because they might be ignorant. Neither does it involve immersing them in boiling oil forever simply for the sake of watching them writhe in indescribable agony. The worse that a person who defames God can expect is eternal unconsciousness or death. The other description is actually and fortunately based on misunderstandings of metaphorical language, acceptance of biblical mistranslations by biased translators, or both.


BTW
Such things are very easily researchable via clicking search on our computers. So ignorance of such information is really inexcusable, especially if we claim to care about how accurately our heavenly Father is being described.

God bless!


 
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Radrook

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The soul does not die, but leaves when man dies
the first death, so why would it die in the second death?

Paul told how he had a desire to depart, but would
at that time for the needs of the brethren remain in
his flesh. Peter told of his decease...that he would put
off his tabernacle.
Jesus Christ's body was slain. It was prepared
as our sacrifice.
When Jesus Christ returns, He will change our vile
bodies.
| Publications | For More Information |

The Soul That Sins Shall Die

(Ezekiel 18)
 
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Der Alte

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What I said is a non sequitur only to one who does not appreciate that this same God states that He does not change, nor in Him is even the shadow of turning. My theology portrays a more kindly, more truthful, Deity than that of the Damnationists. Proof-text Christianity always runs into this sort of inconsistency...
Evidently you do not know what a non-sequitur is. Remember this phrase, "Proof-text Christianity always runs into this sort of inconsistency."
“Verses where Jesus addresses eternal punishment.”
[all Bible quotes from the KJV]

Matthew 13:42
“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” No problem – God characterizes Himself as a refining fire (and as soap) many times in His Word. The “furnace of fire” could be the Lake of Fire or Hell, but it is not specified. the wailing & gnashing are just reactions to the fate, whatever it is. This verse makes just as much sense to the Salvation of All as it does to Damnationism.
This is a prime example of proof-text theology using an out-of-context verse from Malachi to disprove the literal interpretation of a verse in Matthew.
Malachi 3:2-3
(2) But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
(3) And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Your proof-text refers only to the sons of Levi. Your speculation what something "could be" is not evidence.
“And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Same story here…

Please show me the verse which says when the wailing an gnashing of teeth ends?

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
This passage mistyped as chap 17. Note the word "never." Jesus being God is outside of time, "never" to Him extends to the past and future. Please show me the verse where Jesus has or will say to these workers of iniquity, "I now know you welcome to my kingdom."
“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Again, this does not address our Question, except perhaps in a tangential way. The fate of someone who did the deed Jesus mentioned is not stated, so anyone can fill in the blank. I fill it in with punishment and further refining, and others read Hell into it. However, the fate and its duration is not given to us.
The fate is clearly stated, it is worse than death. Again no speculation please show me the verse where the fate worse than death ends?
Matthew 25:41
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” There is just no reason to think this fire is anything other than the Lake of Fire, given who is in it. As to the duration, I know by now that we will just continue to disagree.
Still waiting for the verse(s) which state when the "eternal punishment" ends. What does aionion kolasis mean in Greek? Hint, it does not mean death.
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho; (ca. 150 a.d.) [110-165 AD] Chapter IV
"`Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.'
Matthew 25:46
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” OK, same comment as per 25:41.
Simply saying "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" does not alter the literal meaning.
Matthew 26:24
“The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.” Jesus did not care to specify the details (duration, place of punishment, nature of punishment, if there was punishment), so I don’t care to either – it would be to put words in His mouth.
I don't have to put any words in anyone's mouth. Just show me the verse(s) which say when the fate worse than death ends?

Mark 9:43-48
“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” I’m not going to fall into any Gehenna trap here. In my view, Jesus is simply telling His hearers that it is better to be born (enter into life) minus a part or two, than to be born whole and end up executed and denied a decent burial. He even goes on to say that it is even better to cut a part or two off than to remain whole and risk of life of sin and crime and, again, end up executed and denied a decent burial. There is no need to bring Hell into it unless you already believe in Hell.
Your statement "In my view" is more speculation. Not evidence! Jesus said nothing about a decent burial. When Jesus spoke these words His audience was almost exclusively Jews. According to Jewish sources, i.e. the Jewish Encyclopedia and the Talmud, here is how many Jews who heard Jesus speak understood Isaiah 66:24.
"they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said" [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." "Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world,"
Revelation 21:8
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” That looks really final when you read it, but it is not the end of the story. This wicked group is not left in the lake, but refer back to First Corinthians 15:24-26 - “Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God…when he shall have put down all rule and authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” With death destroyed, the Lake of Fire MUST give up its dead, just as the sea and the grave did so long before. This leads me to three critical questions:
More out-of-context proof texting. Let us see if this proof text mixing understanding is supported by John in Revelation.
Revelation 21:4
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:4, "there shall be no more death."
Revelation 21:6
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
In Rev 21:6 Jesus says "it is done."
Revelation 21:8
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Although Rev 21:4 says "there shall be no more death" and in Rev 21:6 Jesus says "it is done" in Rev 21:8 there are still several groups of people who will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.
1. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell after Death itself has been destroyed?
Were one to read all the passages in-context this will be clear as I have shown above.
2. With Death destroyed, will the Lake of Fire not give up its dead?
Where does Rev. say that after chap. 21:4?
3. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell if God is going to become All in all? (I Corinthians 15:28).
Your one out-of-context proof text does not trump all the other verses.
I wonder if the seven churches in Asia, to whom Revelation is addressed, had a copy of 1 Cor 15:28 in front of them, so when they read/heard Rev. they immediately knew that they were all going to be reconciled to God, no matter what and not be tormented for ever and ever in the lake of fire as John says in Rev?
 
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Der Alte

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The Soul That Sins Shall Die
(Ezekiel 18
)
Out-of-context proof text theology. In this passage "soul" is used synonymous with man/person.
Ezekiel 18:4
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:5
(5) But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,...
Ezekiel 18:9
(9) Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 18:10
(10) If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,...
Ezekiel 18:13
(13) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
 
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Radrook

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Out-of-context proof text theology. In this passage "soul" is used synonymous with man/person.
Ezekiel 18:4
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:5
(5) But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,...
Ezekiel 18:9
(9) Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 18:10
(10) If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,...
Ezekiel 18:13
(13) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
Romans 6:23
New International Version
For the wages of sin is death....
 
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Radrook

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Man doesn't posess an immortal soul. That is a pagan-derived doctrine:

“Nephesh: “the essence of life, the act of breathing, taking breath ... The problem with the English term 'soul' is that no actual equivalent of the term or the idea behind it is represented in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew system of thought does not include the combination or opposition of the 'body' and 'soul' which are really Greek and Latin in origin" (Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, p. 237-238, emphasis added).

“Nephesh” (or “Psuchi” in the Greek New Testament), soul, is, according to the Word of God simply the breath, the life. Genesis 2:7 demonstrates this truth very clearly:

Genesis 2:7
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul [“nephesh” in Hebrew]. ”

See that the Word does not speak about soul as something separate from the body. “Man became a living soul”. Everyone of us that breaths today is a living soul. When we will have breathed our last, we will no longer be living souls. We would be sleeping, having no consciousness, exactly as during deep sleep people have no consciousness.
The origins of the doctrine of the “immortality of the soul”
 
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Der Alte

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Romans 6:23
New International Version
For the wages of sin is death....
That is only one verse. Where are the other 31,171 verses? The usual out-of-context proof text.
Th wages of sin is death but we must read Rom 6:23 in harmony with other verses such as,

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Heb 9:27
(27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Rom 6:23 does not say "The wages of sin is death, resurrection, judgement and (a) then another death, (b) every one will be reconciled no matter what or (c) the wicked will be destroyed." Neither does Jesus.
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 13:50
Matthew 17:21-23
Matthew 18:6
Matthew 25:41
Matthew 25:46
Matthew 26:24
Mark 9:43-48
Revelation 21:8
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
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Man doesn't posess an immortal soul. That is a pagan-derived doctrine:
In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, and according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.
Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול]
from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of moving and shaking, rising up, and speaking. These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon-on.
Some will try to argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will try to argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative. The Hebrew word
משׁל/mashal translatedproverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20 Psalms 44:14 and Jeremiah 24:9.
Here is another passage where God himself is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.

Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Ezekiel 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Out-of-context proof text theology.

Actually, as you must know, I was attempting to answer the list of verses you proposed that I answer. I know now I should have ignored you, as everything you offer proves later to be a trap. Be aware I did not finish reading your last post, and I intend to do the same in the future...
 
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Radrook

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That is only one verse. Where are the other 31,171 verses? The usual out-of-context proof text.
Th wages of sin is death but we must read Rom 6:23 in harmony with other verses such as,

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Heb 9:27
(27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Rom 6:23 does not say "The wages of sin is death, resurrection, judgement and (a) then another death, (b) every one will be reconciled no matter what or (c) the wicked will be destroyed." Neither does Jesus.
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 13:50
Matthew 17:21-23
Matthew 18:6
Matthew 25:41
Matthew 25:46
Matthew 26:24
Mark 9:43-48
Revelation 21:8

What is your personal definition of death?

Psalm 146
King James Version
3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
 
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