Jesus drank alcohol?

I've never been totally convinced on this but I am convinced the God does not want me to drink wine. It makes me think lustful and prideful thoughts more even in small amounts, but I can't speak for others and I'm not convinced that the wine was grape juice. I have not looked into it very far though because I've already made my personal decision. Some people definitely do use the excuse that "Jesus drank wine" to get drunk, an I've even had a friend think it means as long as it doesn't make you sin then you can even smoke a little weed.

The first miracle Jesus performed was turning water into wine at a wedding feast. Therefore he probably isn't against the fruit of the vine which God provided to us to enjoy in moderation. It is the moderation part that some have trouble practicing.

Here is an excellent teaching on The Tyranny of the Weaker Brother, by R.C. Sproul:


I wish that were taught in my church, but it would take courage to stand on the Word of God as Sproul does. Such conviction is lacking in the church today.

You should be able to download the video from that page, but if you can't, I have it on my HD, so message me if you want me to send it to you. I may not be able to send it in an email, if it's too large, but I'll burn it to a disc if you want.

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. - 1 Timothy 5:23

A little wine is permissible.

In biblical times wine was fermented to the maximum of about 16%. At that concentration the alcohol actually kills the yeast. This was called strong drink. However the wine was usually cut with water to bring down the alcohol content to 5 to 8%. Grape juice would only be available a few weeks a year during and just following harvest season. Beyond that time the wild yeasts would already be turning the juice into wine. Distillation of alcohol was not known until about the twelfth century. Among the common people the consumption of weak beer was actually more common than wine which was often reserved for special occasions.

daughtertotheLord said:

Key thing to remember is The Lord led a sin free life. However as a Messianic Jew myself I know there are Shabbat/Sabbath traditions that the Lord would have followed called Kiddish which involves drinking small sips of wine as a ceremonial tradition in a thankful way to the Father. The weekly Shabbat is a time of Holy rest from work and celebration. All to be done in praise, worship and Thanks. Not a booze up but rather a joyful celebration and yes at times with wine drinking in moderation. He would have celebrated such wonderful occassions as weddings definately. As believers we need be careful though as the devil likes to take scripture and twist it and lead us astray. Kiddish can be done with bread and grape juice also. Certainly nowdays it can anyhow, so no need for any recovering acoholics out there to be tempted. That definately would not be Kosher.

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Nice to hear from a Messianic Jew.

gym_class_hero said:

the Bible admonishes us not to be drunk in excess, it doesn't say we must abstain completely from alcohol.

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I agree with gym_class_hero.
Also note that the alcohol he drank was fermented grape juice.
That, some say is good for health. Don't misunderstand me I definitely am not saying that its good to drink it...
In the Israel of those days, almost every house had a vineyard and this drink was common there...

But yes excess of anything is bad. I'll come to this point later.

Suppose, in those days cigarettes were available, do you think Jesus would have smoked too?
It is not what he did that was important but for what he did... Even Paul says, I became everything for everyone in order that I save some.
Supposedly, I go to a person whom others think is a bad person, a drunkard and a sinner. If I go to him and start saying "oh drinking is a bad thing - what you are doing is bad!" Would he listen to me?

I have seen many pastors having that 'holier than thou' attitude and they preach things like "there is so much sin in your life... You don't get any blessings because you are in sin!"
This way you will win no ones heart...

Everyone considered zacchaeus a sinner. When Jesus met him did he blast at him with the "you are a sinner!" preaching?
No! he identified with him. He came down to his level to connect with him and lifted him up...higher... We all know what happened with zacchaeus...

The lotus flower grows in filthy water but is untouched by that water and rises higher - what a beautiful flower it is indeed...

We have to be an example unto others just like Jesus was... He was with them all, he knew what they all were, he knew all their sins but showed love to them. Accepted them as they were. He sat with them, drank with them, spoke to them, taught them, corrected them, loved them, to reach out to them...

But the question is can we do it like Jesus? If so, great I say! It is not a sin. Heard this one? "It is not that which goes into man that makes him unclean, but that which comes out of him"
Out of context I know... But how many times have you seen a drunk person hurling abuses? Saying things that hurt other people? Getting angry? Doing really bad things?

But people say oh, its not his fault, he's drunk... He is not in control...
So, getting drunk is bad but a little wine is ok... Hmmm... How much I wonder...

It is bad...

Now, I come back to that previous point I left behind...
These things become an addiction... I don't think Jesus drank to get "high" (as they call it...). His purpose was different. And even if he drank, definitely he knew how much... Much better than us definitely...
You may argue "So you are saying if Jesus did it its ok and if we do it its bad? Just because he has more control?"
Well... Jesus also lived a sinless life (as a human)... Try that first...
If you are successful, I tell you, heaven will be sure that you can handle drinks...

Alcohol has ruined many families, many lives... Would it be right for the children of light to be associated with something like this?
How does this sound to you?
"Oh? So what if I drink a little? Believers drink too..."

We have to be examples for others. But yes, don't condemn those who do drink... It's like scolding a blind man "why don't you walk properly?" He can't! he is blind!
But we are in the light... Should we too become like them?
Paul told timothy to drink a little because he had a stomach ailment.

One should not get drunk... One should not get addicted...
What? You get freed from the bondage of sin and become a slave to the cravings of wine?
Don't let anything rule you. You have but one master that is Christ Jesus.

It is better to avoid... But it is not a sin if you do it like Jesus did... He never played "holier-than-thou".
"For what?" Is the question you should ask before you lift up that glass of wine.

It is rather better to get drunk on a different wine...

Eph. 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

God Bless You

TurtleAnne said:

Wine alone doesn't quench thirst very well, either, and also when ancient peoples simply crushed up grapes, that was wine, not "grape juice" so it may not have even been very fermented in most cases. So we are talking a little wine with meals, and wine that isn't like some chronic knock-you-on-ur-butt wine, either.

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Excuse me, but without refrigeration or anti-fermentation agents, the instant that you crush a grape, the wild yeast that lives on the outside of the skin of each grape begins the work of fermentation. This is an alcohol bearing beverage called wine.

If you allow the yeast to work, it will usually be killed off somewhere around 12% alcohol content. The result is wine.

Drinking wine is a lot healthier than drinking unfiltered water, especially when drinking from a river that might look clear and clean, but up-river, there are people and animals peeing and pooping in the river. This can quickly lead to cholera and typhoid--not good things.

Short answer, Yes, Jesus drank wine. Yes, He drank a lot of it. No, He did not walk around buzzed all of the time. But it is awfully hard to find a Starbucks in the Judean desert even now. Back in 30 A.D. it was impossible.

Open Heart said:

But the idea that they had some kind of "New Wine" that was not alcoholic is absolute nonsense. Grapes are harvested in late summer, early fall. There was no refrigeration or sugar to preserve it. It began fermenting in the heat almost immediately. There is no way it was still grape juice at Passover.

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Actually, putting sugar in the fermenting grape juice would make the yeast work faster, and the alcohol content would go up to about 18%, and that would make it buzzworthy

EinsteinsGirl said:

It seems to me that there was a time during which Jesus did drink alcohol. I have always heard and been taught that He didn't drink wine, but it seems He did. He would've had to drink alcohol at least once and the people saw Him and exaggerated it...

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.” - Matt 11:18-19

Any thoughts?
I do not believe it to be all that important, just interesting. We must always do what the Lord tells us to do individually of course. If He says to not drink then don't drink.

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First, the text you quote does not specifiy that it was alcoholic wine that Jesus was drinking. It merely says he came eating and drinking. Second, John the Baptist was accused of having a devil, that does not mean he was demon possessed. So this type of argument does not work because their lies or accusations were just that. Lies (Which is evident by their lie against John the Baptist).

Also, Jesus was accused of being born of fornication, too. Does that make such an accusation true? No, of course not

In fact, if Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a by-product of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advise or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober. Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4KJV) (Titus 2:6KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunknenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.


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Geoff m said:

In past times yeast was added to water and fruit juice to make it suitable to drink therefore wine was produced. I am in no doubt that Jesus would have drank wine which was a common commodity.

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When? Yeast lives on the outside skin of the grape. If you crush the grape, fermentation begins at once. No need to add water or yeast. What comes out of the process is wine, pure and simple.

Caminator said:

But what if? What if our practice is reinforcing a wrong conception of the sacrament to begin with? What if Jesus intends us to see His blood, not as something to mourn about and feel "moved" regarding - but as life, abundant life? That, after all, is what He indicates in John 6, where He ties life, eternal life - the life of the world - to eating His flesh and drinking His blood.

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Thank you! Not to go all Catholic on you, but why don't you believe the whole of Jesus' words in John 6 was exactly what He said?

Caminator said:

Since we are Gnostic and think all the activity is in our heads, at least allow me to attempt to tackle this issue by appealing to the intellectual implications of wine versus grape juice. Even if we say that the elements are merely and only symbolic, they still must be symbolic of some thing. They don't refer back to themselves.

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Who are you talking about when you say "WE?" I'm not, and I really doubt that you are, either.

Wine in Biblical Times was Mixed with Water.

In fact, there are three types of wine mentioned in the Bible.


I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Anways, here are some verses on "Wine Mixed with Water":

Revelation 14:10 (Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)
Psalms 75:8
1 Timothy 5:23
Proverbs 9:2
Isaiah 1:22
Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.
John 19:34 (Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood - See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 NIV

“Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to use it.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine (for the times).

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.

B. The Nature of Alcohol & Why Jesus's Miracle Was Fresh Grape Juice.

The Nature of Alcohol:

Alcoholic wine is a product of decay and death. God creates things that are full of life and things that are good. If you were to take alcohol and put it in a cup and then put some dirty coins in there, the alcohol would clean the coins. If you were to put a small piece of fruit or meat in the alcohol, it would dry it out. The alcohol has no understanding of being outside your body or inside your body. Soon as it enters the body, it does the same thing. It seeks to dry out things and to destroy your living tissue. But it is a good thing we have an immune system that can fight back so as to survive. In other words, alcohol is a very minor poison that your body can counter effects of whereby you will not die. But the abuse of this poison can easily kill you because of it's harmful effects.


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Jason0047 said:

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places

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Where?

First of all, I'll bet that you go to a "thou shalt not drink" church, thinking that ANY consumption of alcohol in any form is sinful and evil. I do not go to such a church. However, while I have had my share of beer, wine, and strong drink, I can truthfully say that I have been falling down drunk two (or at most three) times in my life, and I am 65 years old, but i was much younger and much stupider back then.

I don't mind a beer with pizza, once in a while, and I have been known to have a sip of St. Brendan's (a cordial, after dinner drink, about 17% alcohol content). But I don't walk around buzzed all of the time. We've got whisky in the cupboard, and wine, and they can stay there unless I need them to cook.

Jason0047 said:

Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober.

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A good wine is not one with a higher alcohol content. Usually, fine wine is one that has been aged for more than a couple of weeks, or it may be a burgundy or Bordeaux. But the alcohol content is still 12-14%, as that is the highest one can push the yeasts in the wine before the yeast dies.

Jason0047 said:

#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).
(Which is the Type of Wine Jesus made).

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Scripture book, chapter and verse for this. I will refute with John 2:3-10 That means that Jesus made 66 gallons (approx.) of really good quality wine--Greek oinos--meaning a good quality, but not a sweet wine. In other words, real wine. Besides, the governor of the feast commented on it, saying, "Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." (KJV) Meaning that every man brings out the good (tasting) wine at the beginning, and then the rotgut later on.

Hank77 said:

Did Jesus visit the homes of people that were despised by the self-righteous, yes. Was Jesus despised by the self-righteous, yes.
Did Jesus eat, yes. Was He a glutton, no. Did He drink wine, yes. Was He a drunkard, no.

There is a verse or two in the OT, maybe in Proverbs, that even says that the old should be allowed be bury their sadness or physical pain in drink, rather medicinal.
That makes me chuckle. Us old folks usually fall asleep before we can drink very much or get too rowdy.

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Dear rowdy, I was chuckling with you...

Jason0047 said:

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

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Sterling silver is 92.5% fine (pure) silver, and 7.75% copper and other elements. Trust me, I used to be a jeweler.

Monk Brendan said:

Where?

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I provided the verses within the post you quoted.

Monk said:

First of all, I'll bet that you go to a "thou shalt not drink" church, thinking that ANY consumption of alcohol in any form is sinful and evil.

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No, not really. I prefer house fellowship and this conversation has not come up yet. I have learned what I know about wine in the Bible, by prayer, studying the Scriptures, and by reading many articles on this topic for many years. I have also debated this topic online for several years, as well.

Monk said:

I do not go to such a church.

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I know the Catholic Church's positon on alcoholic wine.
I disagree with much of what the Catholic church teaches.
So there is no surprise that we disagree here.

Monk said:

However, while I have had my share of beer, wine, and strong drink, I can truthfully say that I have been falling down drunk two (or at most three) times in my life, and I am 65 years old, but i was much younger and much stupider back then.

I don't mind a beer with pizza, once in a while, and I have been known to have a sip of St. Brendan's (a cordial, after dinner drink, about 17% alcohol content). But I don't walk around buzzed all of the time. We've got whisky in the cupboard, and wine, and they can stay there unless I need them to cook.

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How wonderful for you. Others have not been so lucky to put the demon in the bottle away before it destroyed them.

Monk said:

A good wine is not one with a higher alcohol content.

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Yes. My point exactly. Hence, why Jesus's wine was praised as the "best wine."

Monk said:

Usually, fine wine is one that has been aged for more than a couple of weeks, or it may be a burgundy or Bordeaux. But the alcohol content is still 12-14%, as that is the highest one can push the yeasts in the wine before the yeast dies.

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By today's standards this is the case. The people at the wedding of Cana are not like most people of today. Neither was the wine served at the wedding like the wine at the Wedding at Cana, either.


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