LDS Please explain what the atonement means for Mormons.

Rescued One

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The week I met the missionaries, I wrote to my best friend and asked her why she became a Mormon. In response, she sent me a thirty-page letter written on looseleaf paper.
I received two books (What of the Mormons? by Hinckley, and a paperback copy of The Book of Mormon) two weeks before I was baptized. After the first of six lessons, I was encouraged with each visit to look forward to being baptized. There were few visits because after the first one, the missionaries decided to give me two at each visit. I wasn't the one who was saying, "Let's speed this up," but was being strongly encouraged to learn quickly. The rest of my family were also encouraged to take the lessons and be promptly baptized. The senior companion said they could baptize people who didn't have testimonies because the testimony would come later.
 
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Jane_Doe

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The week I met the missionaries, I wrote to my best friend and asked her why she became a Mormon. In response, she sent me a thirty-page letter written on looseleaf paper.
I received two books (What of the Mormons? by Hinckley, and a paperback copy of The Book of Mormon) two weeks before I was baptized. After the first of six lessons, I was encouraged with each visit to look forward to being baptized. There were few visits because after the first one, the missionaries decided to give me two at each visit. I wasn't the one who was saying, "Let's speed this up," but was being strongly encouraged to learn quickly. The rest of my family were also encouraged to take the lessons and be promptly baptized.
Once again, you rushed into things. You're responsible for your actions, no one else.
 
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Rescued One

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Mormons haven't thoroughly explained their version of the atonement. Basically, it was so that each human would be resurrected even those who will spend eternity with the devil in outer darkness. The other part of the atonement pays for the sins of those who obey the commandments (including all Mormon laws and ordinances). The atonement provides help to those who "do all they can do."

Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.


How Can We Access the Savior’s Grace?
When we need guidance or support or strength, God can help us. But it depends on us too. We have to seek His help and be worthy of it.

As Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has said,“When we obey the commandments of the Lord and serve His children unselfishly, the natural consequence is power from God—power to do more than we can do by ourselves. Our insights, our talents, our abilities are expanded because we receive strength and power from the Lord.”
Joshua J. Perkey, Grace and the Atonement of Jesus Christ

Doctrine and Covenants 25
15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

The lowest kingdom of glory:
Doctrine and Covenants 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;

99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.

100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;

101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.*

103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.

105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.

108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

* I'll start a thread about the church of the Firstborn. Those in the telestial kingdom are not the only ones excluded from it.
 
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fatboys

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The week I met the missionaries, I wrote to my best friend and asked her why she became a Mormon. In response, she sent me a thirty-page letter written on looseleaf paper.
I received two books (What of the Mormons? by Hinckley, and a paperback copy of The Book of Mormon) two weeks before I was baptized. After the first of six lessons, I was encouraged with each visit to look forward to being baptized. There were few visits because after the first one, the missionaries decided to give me two at each visit. I wasn't the one who was saying, "Let's speed this up," but was being strongly encouraged to learn quickly. The rest of my family were also encouraged to take the lessons and be promptly baptized. The senior companion said they could baptize people who didn't have testimonies because the testimony would come later.
You gave signs that you were progressing faster than most. Judgement call. So?
 
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Songsmith

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Mormonism teaches that you must at least in part "earn" your salvation and do so by works, i.e. "continual repentance and obedience"

Ummm...Jesus teaches that we must repent when we pray, and that we must forgive others to recieve forgiveness. He is talking to believers when he says this. This is made clear when he tells them that whatever they ask for in prayer believing will be theirs:
25And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Heck, even in the lord's prayer he tells us to seek forgiveness when we pray. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"
 
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Rescued One

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Ummm...Jesus teaches that we must repent when we pray, and that we must forgive others to recieve forgiveness. He is talking to believers when he says this. This is made clear when he tells them that whatever they ask for in prayer believing will be theirs:
25And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Heck, even in the lord's prayer he tells us to seek forgiveness when we pray. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

Actually, Christians probably forgive others quickly when people offend or hurt them.

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Ummm...Jesus teaches that we must repent when we pray, and that we must forgive others to recieve forgiveness. He is talking to believers when he says this. This is made clear when he tells them that whatever they ask for in prayer believing will be theirs:
25And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Heck, even in the lord's prayer he tells us to seek forgiveness when we pray. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"
Yes. So what's your point?
 
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Songsmith

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Yes. So what's your point?
Well, there is ongoing repentance and ongoing forgiveness, if one extrapolates from Jesus' teachings. You seemed to be saying that repentance is a one and done proposition. That is not what scripture teaches. I was simply pointing that out to you.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Well, there is ongoing repentance and ongoing forgiveness, if one extrapolates from Jesus' teachings. You seemed to be saying that repentance is a one and done proposition. That is not what scripture teaches. I was simply pointing that out to you.
No, I was addressing the continual obedience to the law that mormons believe helps them earn their salvation. If you go back and re-read my posts it's pretty clear I'm talking about their belief in earning salvation through their own works (which they call "obedience to the law").
 
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Jane_Doe

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No, I was addressing the continual obedience to the law that mormons believe helps them earn their salvation. If you go back and re-read my posts it's pretty clear I'm talking about their belief in earning salvation through their own works (which they call "obedience to the law").
Correcting you once again on this: no LDS do not believe a person "earns" salvation. I have never encountered a Christian faith that does. The idea that LDS and the numerical majority of Christians don't agree with is the idea that salvation happens without our acceptance of Christ.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Correcting you once again on this: no LDS do not believe a person "earns" salvation. I have never encountered a Christian faith that does. The idea that LDS and the numerical majority of Christians don't agree with is the idea that salvation happens without our acceptance of Christ.
I'll let a mormon apostle correct you on this:
“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.”
Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2006, p.42

Or, if you like, feel free to tell me that your religion's apostle is wrong about this. Is that what you're trying to tell me - that apostle Richard G Scott (and Ensign) is wrong?
 
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withwonderingawe

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Let’s see if I can break this down.

For every sin committed a payment must be made, that is an eternal law.

For every good work done there is a reward promised.

Because of the fall we commit sins and thus we are separated from the presence of God because no sinful thing can enter or withstand his presence.

I could pile up tons of good works but they could not erase one sin so I could not enter God’s presence. I can not earn my salvation by works, I am in a hopeless state.

Jesus as God offered to pay for my sins by the shedding of his blood, to wipe the slate clean, which he has done. It’s done!

However for him to apply that blood on me personally He has set up some requirements.

1, First faith in him, I must recognized him as the Son of God, creator of Heaven and Earth.

2, Repentance, there must be a bowing of the knee to him and asking him to forgive my sins.

3, He then makes a covenant with me. His side of the covenant is that he will forgive all of my passed sins and my on going sins if I keep my side of the covenant. My side of the covenant is to always remember him by obeying his commandments and repenting when I don’t.

The symbol of this covenant is baptism, when I am immersed in the waters of baptism my sins are washed away because that marks the beginning of the covenant. If I died at that moment then I would be in a state of perfection and able to enter into the presence of God. However not many people do that so…. we sin.

4, He then gives me a gift, the gift of the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. To even have faith in Jesus one must have had a witness from the Holy Spirit but this is a step beyond that. The Holy Spirit is there to guide us away from sin, to prick our conscience, to give us a very strong feeling of guilt. When I sin, let’s say gossip, this Holy Spirit will whisper to my spirit that was not right. If I’m in tune I will repent, I will ask for forgiveness and I will ask the Holy Spirit to help me overcome this sin. I will try to give mercy to others and not judge them and then pass that judgment on through gossip. Each day of my life the Holy Spirit will be there, it is part of the sanctification process.

At some point I will die and we all die at different times going through different experiences and with varying amounts of sins or weakness still there. But, we have the millennial reign where we will be tutored under his loving hand. Our weakness will become strengths as we become closer to becoming one with him. We have that covenant and promises from Him who can not lie. All of our sins will be wiped away, we will stand before him with clean hands and pure hearts. The promises of reward for our good works will then be given us and we will enter into the presences of the Father.
 
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Jane_Doe

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I'll let a mormon apostle correct you on this:
“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.”
Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2006, p.42

Or, if you like, feel free to tell me that your religion's apostle is wrong about this. Is that what you're trying to tell me - that apostle Richard G Scott (and Ensign) is wrong?
You are getting way to focused on four letters there and ignoring the entirety of sermon. Yes, LDS believe that a person needs listen to their Lord and repent of their sins to be made clean in the blood of the lamb (it's Christ doing the saving, us doing the accepting of His gift- he's not going to force us). Numerically majority of mainstream Christians also agree with this position.

Do you disagree and believe that Heaven is full of unrepentant sinners forced there?
 
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ArmenianJohn

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You are getting way to focused on four letters there and ignoring the entirety of sermon.
What "four letters"???? What are you talking about???

Yes, LDS believe that a person needs listen to their Lord and repent of their sins to be made clean in the blood of the lamb (it's Christ doing the saving, us doing the accepting of His gift- he's not going to force us). Numerically majority of mainstream Christians also agree with this position.
The quote I provided from mormon apostle Richard G. Scott didn't just say "repent", it also said "obedience to the laws of God". It also said that the "repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle".

You are ignoring the part about "obedience to the laws of God" in your reply.

So, to put it plainly, do you agree with Richard G. Scott, the mormon apostle, that "obedience to the laws of God" is "absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle"???

Do you disagree and believe that Heaven is full of unrepentant sinners forced there?
No. But I do believe it's full of sinners who do not "obey the laws of God" (is there even any other kind of sinner???)

How about you? Do you agree with me (and Christianity) or with mormon apostle Richard Scott? It's very clear you agree with Richard Scott, because you have not said you think he's wrong. So, you disagree with Christianity. [Staff edit].
 
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Jane_Doe

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The quote I provided from mormon apostle Richard G. Scott didn't just say "repent", it also said "obedience to the laws of God". It also said that the "repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle".

You are ignoring the part about "obedience to the laws of God" in your reply.
Actually I didn't--
LDS Articles of Faith 4-- "We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Good, we (you, me, Elder Scott) are in agreement.
 
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withwonderingawe

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I'll let a mormon apostle correct you on this:
“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.”
Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2006, p.42

Or, if you like, feel free to tell me that your religion's apostle is wrong about this. Is that what you're trying to tell me - that apostle Richard G Scott (and Ensign) is wrong?

Do you think you can attain salvation without repentance and obedience?

Romans 2:8
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

2 Thessalonians 1:8
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Actually I didn't--
LDS Articles of Faith 4-- "We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Thanks for pointing out that a mormon "apostle" was wrong and that the mormon publication "Ensign" was wrong. [Staff edit]. So how is it that an apostle and publication of the mormon church are wrong if they are supposedly getting their information from God?

Good, we (you, me, Elder Scott) are in agreement.
Being in agreement only in part is not being in agreement. (And we're not even really in agreement in part.) And you admitted above that you disagree with Richard Scott, so you're not even in agreement with him.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Do you think you can attain salvation without repentance and obedience?
Of course - haven't you been reading my many posts?

Romans 2:8
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

2 Thessalonians 1:8
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Thanks for the verses, but they have nothing to do with anything I was talking about in this thread.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Thanks for pointing out that a mormon "apostle" was wrong and that the mormon publication "Ensign" was wrong. [Staff edit]. So how is it that an apostle and publication of the mormon church are wrong if they are supposedly getting their information from God?

Being in agreement only in part is not being in agreement. (And we're not even really in agreement in part.) And you admitted above that you disagree with Richard Scott, so you're not even in agreement with him.
You're making an amazing amount of fictional straw men arguments here. Why do you do that, and not just listen to what I'm actually saying?
Thanks for the verses, but they have nothing to do with anything I was talking about in this thread.

They are verses about actual LDS beliefs.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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You're making an amazing amount of fictional straw men arguments here. Why do you do that, and not just listen to what I'm actually saying?
What straw men arguments??? Are you now trying to deflect by making accusations against me? Why are you not listening to what I'm actually saying?

They are verses about actual LDS beliefs.
That's fine, but they are about other Mormon beliefs than the ones we are talking about in this thread. For example, if you asked me what my church believes about female clergy and I gave you a verse that talked about drinking alcohol it wouldn't be relevant, even though it's a verse. [Staff edit].
 
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