How to explain 13.8 billion years?

prodromos said:

The problem is that if God brought the entire universe in to being approximately 6000 years ago, the models which scientists have determined will extrapolate back beyond that point when there was in fact nothing, not even the passage of time.

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The problem is that if God brought the entire universe in to being last Thursday, the models which scientists have determined will extrapolate back beyond that point when there was in fact nothing, not even the passage of time.

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Paul of Eugene OR said:

a) The universe was created for its own self

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Atheists often give us that same line... sort of like amoeba's turning into rabbits and horses - "of its own self".

prodromos said:

If you accept that the creation of the universe was a supernatural event, then you also have to accept that science is not equipped to determine anything with regards to supernatural events. Science can only determine theories and laws regarding the natural. Based on what they observe and has been observed for as long as people have been recording such details, scientists attempt to create models which fit the data and then extrapolate back using the same model. The problem is that if God brought the entire universe in to being approximately 6000 years ago, the models which scientists have determined will extrapolate back beyond that point when there was in fact nothing, not even the passage of time.

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True - he could snap his finger and there would appear the adult Adam - in one instance in time. Or there would be an entire Galaxy in one instance in time.

Placing God inside an observation cell for further testing and analysis - is more difficult than many atheist evolutionist would like to believe.

NothingIsImpossible said:

Eh, science says alot of things then changes their mind later on.

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True.

That is the way science works "by definition".

An ever twisting winding road where the previous stretch of road is often repudiated and anyone who affirms that prior stretch of road is mocked.

gordonhooker said:

Psssst don't tell anyone else, but there are Christian out there me included that don't have an anthropocentric view of creation and the universe.

Basically the 'Creation' stories in Genesis are poetry .

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Just not true in the actual Bible, any more than the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, his ascension into heaven, the miracles of the Bible... are all mere myth simply "to be dismissed as things that never happened in real history"..

mcarmichael said:

It's only than mankind is however old. That Adam and Eve were real people.

There is a saying somewhere, "There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for his people."

Yeah.

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Hebrews 4:9 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

And of course the Bible Sabbath states this fact in legal code (not poem and myth) about the fact of creation

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

13 billion years really? Cause I heard someone said it was more around 15 billion and then someone told me it more around 12 billion so which number is correct? Its like the age of the galaxies seems like a theory to me but thats crazy talk cause its not a theory. Science is great it tells us what the sun is made out of and what the moon is made out of and proves that there is no God since we all evolved correct?
I believe what the bible says if the bible says the world was created in 6 days then it was created in six literal days. God created Adam then that means humans didn't evolve but created. Then people say what about how old the universe is its billions of years? I tell them that science is wrong. People have been twisting science to prove christians wrong and to prove there is no God so why trust them when they say how old there universe is? If you start questioning the bible then you might as well place it with fairy tales. If you say the earth has to be older than six thousand years, so then you say the bible got that wrong since the earth is millions of years old. then you can say its impossible for Jesus to be brought back to life since science doesn't support miracles.

Believe the bible or not the earth was created in six literal days. The whole universe is around 6000 years old.
What is the sun really made of do we truly know? Or are we just guessing?

BobRyan said:

Hebrews 4:9 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

And of course the Bible Sabbath states this fact in legal code (not poem and myth) about the fact of creation

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

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Of course.

LinkH said:

Also, why would the days need to be 24 hours? Jewish days are reckoned from sunset to sunset.

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How long is a Lappland Sabbath? If the Sami rested and did no work on the Seventh Day, from Sunset to Sunset, they would do no work for 29 days in the winter, and for 51 days in the summer, plus another 50 days per year. 130 days per year with no work - not even lighting a fire.

And if fat cannot be eaten, or marine mammals, or shellfish, then there is literally nothing to eat for 6 months of the year.

Essentially, the Jews are perpetually excluded by God from living in the Lappland.

(The "yom" of Genesis 1 is not simply a solar day.)

JackRT said:

What I have been seeing here is a lot of claims about science and the motives of scientists. I am a retired scientist, mathematician and educator. In almost sixty years I have never encountered any of the basic dishonesty of scientists that has been alluded too in the last two posts.

I have a question: "is lying for what you perceive is a good cause still a lie?"

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It's a difficult conversation to have, isn't it?

I agree with the one person who said the Bible said the Earth was created in 6 days (and God rested on the 7th). There is no mention of when the universe was created, how old it was, etc.

Folks regularly mix the two up and say ... well, if the Earth is only 6,000 years old, then why is the universe blah blah blah. What does the age of the Earth have to do with the age of the Universe? Two separate things.

I believe the Bible ... the Earth is around 6,000 years old, having been created in 6 literal days. The universe? Haven't a clue. I like what another person said: That God could have created a mature Universe for all we know.

ADisciple said:

I agree with the one person who said the Bible said the Earth was created in 6 days (and God rested on the 7th). There is no mention of when the universe was created, how old it was, etc.

Folks regularly mix the two up and say ... well, if the Earth is only 6,000 years old, then why is the universe blah blah blah. What does the age of the Earth have to do with the age of the Universe? Two separate things.

I believe the Bible ... the Earth is around 6,000 years old, having been created in 6 literal days. The universe? Haven't a clue. I like what another person said: That God could have created a mature Universe for all we know.

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The thing is we do know when the flood was and the connection to Adam from there.

To invoke old ages somewhere is to assume Adam and Eve lived for billions of years here? Or maybe a devoid planet existed billions of years before Adam was put here? Or..? Why invent stuff?

Jesus_is_Saint said:

The astronomers say the visible universe is 13.8 billion years old,
the vast distance can prove that.
Then, how valid is the Church to insist it is only 6000+ years old?

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Astronomers say the darndest things.

Cappadocious said:

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Cap, I'm not sure what your point is. We were here to witness what happened last Thursday. We weren't here to witness what happened 6000 years ago.

Jesus_is_Saint said:

The astronomers say the visible universe is 13.8 billion years old,
the vast distance can prove that.
Then, how valid is the Church to insist it is only 6000+ years old?

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First there is no official answer on how old is the earth from the church.
Second the 13.x billion year is only a hypothesis, no one knows for sure.
Third, it is God that we are talking about. He created all the physical rules and they can all change according to his will. We thought we figured out all the rules of physics, and quantum physics come alone and we now found we don't know much Remember how nothing can be faster than the speed of light? Now we find quantum coupling can send information faster than speed of light.

And also, this whole thing can be just a simulation, everything is just a number in God's computer, can be tweaked at will.

Hey, they just made it official, we all have an organ in us that was never discovered before And now we finally know that not only do Blue Whales sing (we previously believed they were mute), their song, which we can't hear because of it's low frequency, can be heard hundreds to thousands of miles away by other Blue Whales.

Definitely cool stuff, but it's also a sign that tells us that we may not have even scratched the surface of knowing all that we can know! And then there is all that stuff about God that we cannot know and/or are not privy to, but He has made sure that we know all that we "need" to know .. Deuteronomy 29:29.

dcalling said:

First there is no official answer on how old is the earth from the church..

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The church??? Where do they put out statements and who are they?

prodromos said:

Cap, I'm not sure what your point is. We were here to witness what happened last Thursday. We weren't here to witness what happened 6000 years ago.

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God was.

BobRyan said:

Just not true in the actual Bible, any more than the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, his ascension into heaven, the miracles of the Bible... are all mere myth simply "to be dismissed as things that never happened in real history"..

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I assume that is your opinion, I know it is not mine...