Are we in the last of the last days?

parousia70 said:

Are you just as sure as you were 2 years ago when you said something similar in THIS POST?

"Since July 2013 I've been fairly sure that Springtime 2015 would be the start of it."

I suppose now, like then, when it fails to come to pass this year you can just post something similar next year, and the next, and next, and next...

What good is a goalpost if it can't be moved again and again and again, right?

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Amen!

Isn't that what Harold Camping did?

That is exactly why the Bible tells us to not set dates!

Major1 said:

Amen!

Isn't that what Harold Camping did?

That is exactly why the Bible tells us to not set dates!

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Next month i'll have been posting here for 15 years, and every year since I joined in 2002, I have witnessed someone or multiple someones predicting "this year is the year" and each passing year those same someones are more than content to adjust the goalposts a little bit further down the line.

Scripture, of course, plainly instructs us how to regard those "someones":

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:22

parousia70 said:

Next month i'll have been posting here for 15 years, and every year since I joined in 2002, I have witnessed someone or multiple someones predicting "this year is the year" and each passing year those same someones are more than content to adjust the goalposts a little bit further down the line.

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Making predictions from personal beliefs and calculations will never be right, as you correctly say.
But in our Bibles, we are given time periods and are told to watch for the signs of the events fortold to happen in the end times.
You have been here for 15 years; congratulations. Nothing has happened as prophesied yet, does that mean it won't ever happen?

keras said:

Making predictions from personal beliefs and calculations will never be right, as you correctly say.

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Agreed

But in our Bibles, we are given time periods and are told to watch for the signs of the events fortold to happen in the end times.

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Timetables? Aren't Biblical time statements elastic, metaphoric and spiritual, able to be stretched and elongated to our hearts desire? Soon means a long time and near means far, right?

You have been here for 15 years; congratulations. Nothing has happened as prophesied yet, does that mean it won't ever happen?

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I've been a Christian since the mid 80's, and for the past 30+ years I've had teachers and scholars as well as simple well meaning brethren emphatically preaching to me that the "end is coming soon, probably even this year!"

Don't you recall the story of the Boy who cried wolf?
Even though the wolf eventually came, the Boy who falsely cried wolf all those times prior did his community a disservice, and indeed caused them harm by causing them to lose faith in his ability and his sincerity.

parousia70 said:

Next month i'll have been posting here for 15 years, and every year since I joined in 2002, I have witnessed someone or multiple someones predicting "this year is the year" and each passing year those same someones are more than content to adjust the goalposts a little bit further down the line.

Scripture, of course, plainly instructs us how to regard those "someones":

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:22

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I agree completely with you. I am rather new to this site but one of the ones I was on was just about like your example. Someone always has THE answer no matter what Scripture says. Some one always .knows the Jesus is coming this year. Someone always has had God speak directly to them verbally and told them and only them what is going to happen.

There are several Scriptures about false prophets. Another in Deut. is 18:20......
“But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

keras said:

Making predictions from personal beliefs and calculations will never be right, as you correctly say.
But in our Bibles, we are given time periods and are told to watch for the signs of the events fortold to happen in the end times.
You have been here for 15 years; congratulations. Nothing has happened as prophesied yet, does that mean it won't ever happen?

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Isn't that exactly what Harold Camping said?

diane. said:

I ask the question: Are we in the last of the last days?

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St John sure thought HE was!:

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18)

I'm not really in a position to declare he was wrong but people today who are saying the same thing are right.

My bet is He knew more about it than we do.

OK. I have posted this before and it gets ignored. Study it carefully and tell me where it's wrong if you disagree.
7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:
Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BCE

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 6:7 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BCE

Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BCE. [Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.]

1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1-3 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:1-2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:32 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:1-2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1-2 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 22:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year 586 BCE.
Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5

586 BCE + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5 CE, the date of Jesus’ baptism. Luke 3:1 Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement. 3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years.

January 2017 CE - 29.5 CE = 1987.5 years since the commencement of Jesus’ Ministry.
1987.5 + 4000 = 5987.5 years, is where we are now. 5987.5 + 12.5 = 6000 years

2017 CE + 12.5 = 2029.5 CE Exactly 2000 years to the end of the present Church age. 4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam, next comes the 1000 year reign of Jesus.

7000 years is God’s decreed time for mankind.
Those who have been found worthy will go into eternity with God. Revelation 22:1-5

keras said:

OK. I have posted this before and it gets ignored. Study it carefully and tell me where it's wrong if you disagree.

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Count on it

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

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This is your Hypothesis. And below you apparently set out to prove it:

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BCE

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 6:7 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BCE

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OK

Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

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So far so good

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BCE. [Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.]

1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1-3 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:1-2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:32 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:1-2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1-2 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 22:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year 586 BCE.
Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5

586 BCE + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5 CE, the date of Jesus’ baptism. Luke 3:1 Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement. 3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years.

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No glaring arguments here

January

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2017 CE - 29.5 CE = 1987.5 years since the commencement of Jesus’ Ministry.
1987.5 + 4000 = 5987.5 years, is where we are now. 5987.5 + 12.5 = 6000 years

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OK

2017 CE + 12.5 = 2029.5 CE

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Exactly 2000 years to the end of the present Church age. 4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam, next comes the 1000 year reign of Jesus.

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Wait a sec... how are you arriving at your conclusion that I have underlined?
Seems to me you are imposing your hypothesis into the calculation.

7000 years

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is God’s decreed time for mankind.

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Again, see above, simply restating your hypothesis at the end does not make it a calculated conclusion... as far as I can tell, you simply made up the statement "Exactly 2000 years to the end of the present Church age."

What prevents it from being "Exactly 2350 years to the end of the present Church age." or "Exactly 3015 years to the end of the present Church age."

Am I missing something?

Of course when I read the Bible I find that it teaches that the earth and material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations upon the earth are perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33)

parousia70 said:

Wait a sec... how are you arriving at your conclusion that I have underlined?
Seems to me you are imposing your hypothesis into the calculation.

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Thanks for taking the time to look properly at #48.
If we are now at year 5987.5, proved by simple addition of the Biblical given time periods and tied to our current calendar, and the previous ages of the Patriarchs and then the Kings equaled exactly 2000 years, then doesn't it follow that the Church age will also be 2000 years?
Jesus actually prophesied it in Luke 13:32. The 2 'days' He said would work are heavenly days, explained by Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8. Also Hosea 6:2 prophesies this time.
The 12.5 years we have left of this age, is enough to fulfil all that must happen before Jesus Returns. Starting very soon!

parousia70 said:

Of course when I read the Bible I find that it teaches that the earth and material cosmos will exist forever

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Correct; and I never said otherwise.
The earth remained after Noah's flood and it will remain after God's second reset of human civilization, by fire from the sun. Isaiah 66:15-17

he-man said:

Israel does not win, God wins with His victory over all nations that go up against Israel.
Isaiah 62:6-7 I have posted watchmen on your walls, Jerusalem; they will never be silent day or night. You who call on the Lord, give yourselves no rest, and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem and makes her the praise of the earth.
Mt 24:31 {With a great sound of a trumpet} (meta salpiggos fwnes megales). Some MSS. omit (fwnes) "sound." The trumpet was the signal employed to call the hosts of Israel to march as to war and is common in prophetic imagery (#Isa 27:13). Cf. the seventh angel (#Re 11:15). Clearly "the coming of the son of man is not to be identified with the judgment of Jerusalem but rather forms its preternatural background" (Bruce).
36 "But as to that day and the exact time no one knows--not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Ezekiel 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
Wind is frequently used in the Bible as a metaphor for some spiritual truth (e.g., Psalm 78:39 and Jeremiah 22:22). This holds true when the Bible refers to the “four winds.” The phrase “four winds” is used principally to describe the whole of the earth or heaven. The “four winds” encompass all directions or the “four corners” of the earth: north, south, east, and west (Jeremiah 49:36; Matthew 24:31).
The discrepancy is understandable, since the Hebrew word for “wind” can also mean “spirit.”
That the Hebrews recognized the existence of four prevailing winds as issuing, broadly speaking, from the four cardinal points, [of the Earth] north, south, east and west, may be inferred from their custom of using the expression "four winds" as equivalent to the "four quarters" of the hemisphere. ( Ezekiel 37:9 ; Daniel 8:8 ; Zechariah 2:6 ; Matthew 24:31 ) Smith's Bible Dictionary Easton's Bible Dictionary
King James Bible

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This looks like you just copied and pasted a bunch of different commentaries on many different unrelated passages, meshed it all together, wrote the words "Israel does not win, God wins with His victory over all nations that go up against Israel" on top and
Smith's Bible Dictionary Easton's Bible Dictionary
King James Bible on the bottom.

Plus all of those passages you cited isn't even about a war involving Israel.

he-man said:

Israel does not win, God wins with His victory over all nations that go up against Israel.

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This event (Zechariah 12:9) doesn't happen till the second half of the tribulation after Jerusalem gets invaded and destroyed. In other words, we're not in the tribulation yet.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Israel has to win the war in order to get the 7 year peace covenant started for Daniel's 70th to commence. If the Muslims win, they will wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Than the prophecy of Daniel's 70th week will never be fulfilled.











.







.

parousia70 said:

Count on it



This is your Hypothesis. And below you apparently set out to prove it:


OK


So far so good


No glaring arguments here



OK



Wait a sec... how are you arriving at your conclusion that I have underlined?
Seems to me you are imposing your hypothesis into the calculation.



Again, see above, simply restating your hypothesis at the end does not make it a calculated conclusion... as far as I can tell, you simply made up the statement "Exactly 2000 years to the end of the present Church age."

What prevents it from being "Exactly 2350 years to the end of the present Church age." or "Exactly 3015 years to the end of the present Church age."

Am I missing something?

Of course when I read the Bible I find that it teaches that the earth and material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations upon the earth are perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33)

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And your comment of.....
"Wait a sec... how are you arriving at your conclusion that I have underlined?
Seems to me you are imposing your hypothesis into the calculation".............is absolutely spot on!

This is the reason why so many people have false understandings and false teachings.

keras said:

Thanks for taking the time to look properly at #48.

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My pleasure.

So I asked: What prevents it from being "Exactly 2350 years to the end of the present Church age." or "Exactly 3015 years to the end of the present Church age."

To which you replied:

If we are now at year 5987.5, proved by simple addition of the Biblical given time periods and tied to our current calendar, and the previous ages of the Patriarchs and then the Kings equaled exactly 2000 years, then doesn't it follow that the Church age will also be 2000 years?

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I would need scripture to demonstrate this...
Using your "doesn't it follow" theory why couldn't we conclude that, since Abraham Typified Christ, "doesn't it follow" that Christ in turn Typifies some future, better Messiah?

I say no. Christ is the Object not the shadow, and equally, the age of Christ and His church are also the Object, and do not shadow some future, greater age of redemption.

According to scripture, The so-called Church age has no end and we are of the eternal Covenant priesthood of Melchizedek -- it is perfected and has no end:

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory IN THE CHURCH by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Hebrews 7:14-17
For it is evident that our Lord has sprung out of Judah, as to which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. This is yet more abundantly evident, if after the likeness of Melchizedek there arises another priest [Jesus Christ], who has been made, not after the law of a fleshly commandment, but after the power of an endless life: for it is testified, "YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER, ACCCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK ."

The function of a priest is to intercede on behalf of sinners, and according to Hebrews, Christ never ceases in that function.

Our gospel of the Kingdom is the eternal gospel to be given among all peoples forever and ever:

Revelation 14:6
I saw another angel flying in mid heaven, HAVING AN ETERNAL GOSPEL TO PROCLAIM to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation, tribe, language, and people

Keras, that's not future, that's here now and has been for 19 centuries.

The age of the Holy Spirit is eternal now that it has fully arrived back in the last days of the Old Testament period (John 14:16; 2 Cor 3:6-12).

Jesus actually prophesied it in Luke 13:32. The 2 'days' He said would work are heavenly days, explained by Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8. Also Hosea 6:2 prophesies this time.

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This is your closest attempt at proving your hypothesis with scripture, and I appreciate the effort.

Couple things that keep me from signing on:

1) you are still using supposition to claim "the 2 days are heavenly days" Scripture literalizes those two days as earthly, for it was the third earth day He rose from the dead

B) even if we suppose they mean "heavenly days" Psalms 90:4 also says 1000 years to God = "a watch in the night" which is a period of 3-6 earth hours, not 24.

Please re do your calculation to allow for this inspired text and let me know what new date you come up with.

The Church is NEVER going anywhere folks. It's the longest-standing organization on the planet and "throughout all ages world without end" is a very long time!

Major1 said:

And your comment of.....
"Wait a sec... how are you arriving at your conclusion that I have underlined?
Seems to me you are imposing your hypothesis into the calculation".............is absolutely spot on!

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What I have done is simple addition of the time periods as given in our Bibles. The fact you object to the result proves either that you are mathematically illiterate, or the result conflicts with your beliefs, so you cannot accept it.

parousia70 said:

I would need scripture to demonstrate this...

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I used 45 scriptures in #48 and Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 both prove that time to God is quite different to us on earth. They clearly state that 1 day in heaven is the same as 1000 earth years. The Hebrew parallelism of like an watch in the night, is just to emphasize the shortness of time to God.
Jesus was dead [in Hades] for the three days after His Crucifixion. That fulfilled the Sign of Jonah.

parousia70 said:

The Church is NEVER going anywhere folks. It's the longest-standing organization on the planet and "throughout all ages world without end" is a very long time!

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Quite right; but the future is not what some like to think; an easy path to heaven, but a difficult time of trial and testing of our faith before the reward of eternity with God.

keras said:

What I have done is simple addition of the time periods as given in our Bibles. The fact you object to the result proves either that you are mathematically illiterate, or the result conflicts with your beliefs, so you cannot accept it.

I used 45 scriptures in #48 and Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 both prove that time to God is quite different to us on earth. They clearly state that 1 day in heaven is the same as 1000 earth years. The Hebrew parallelism of like an watch in the night, is just to emphasize the shortness of time to God.
Jesus was dead [in Hades] for the three days after His Crucifixion. That fulfilled the Sign of Jonah.

Quite right; but the future is not what some like to think; an easy path to heaven, but a difficult time of trial and testing of our faith before the reward of eternity with God.

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Matthew 24:36-44 declares, ..........
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father…Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come…So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.”

Acts 1:7, which states..............
"It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority."

You are welcome to add, and subtract all you want to.

However, considering what the Scriptures say...... let me be abundantly clear:
I do not believe that God has revealed to anyone when Jesus is coming back, and I see nothing in Scripture which indicates that God will ever reveal to anyone when Jesus is coming back.

That fact alone is way the Rapture is Bible doctrine. The Rapture can happen now at anytime.
That makes it UNKNOWABLE!

Psalm3704 said:

Plus all of those passages you cited isn't even about a war involving Israel.

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Huh?
The Prophecy That Is Shaping History:
President Reagan’s view of Ezekiel’s prophecy was not limited, however, to shaping America’s relations with Russia; it also influenced his relationship with other nations. He believed, for example, that the Arab nations of the Middle East would participate in the End Time invasion of Israel. On this basis he also correctly predicted the fall of Ethiopia26 into the orbit of Communism.
Moreover, the same prophecy may have shaped the President’s relations with Libya—a nation he saw (in Ezekiel 38:5, under the name “Put”) allied with Ezekiel’s Rosh against Israel. In April, 1986, American and British aircraft attacked Benghazi and Tripoli (almost killing Libyan President Ghadafi) in retaliation for the deaths of several American military personnel killed in the bombing of a discotheque in Germany by Libyan terrorists. Following the Reagan era, the 1988 presidential candidacy of the well known evangelist and philanthropist, Pat Robertson, further typified the impact of Ezekiel’s prophecy on American foreign policy. In contrast to academic “conventional wisdom,” Robertson clearly warned of the danger of the Soviet (and, more recently, the Russian) threat, and spoke strongly of his unwavering support for Israel. Robertson remains convinced that Ezekiel 38-39 will be fulfilled by the invasion of Israel by Russia. [After taking Syria]
Apparently represented by the nations of “Paras, Cush and Put” (Ezekiel 38:5). J. Simons, Geographical and Topographical Texts of the Old Testament (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1959), ad loc. Ezekiel lists three nations, and the list follows the same pattern as “Rosh [no AND] Meshech AND Tubal,” above: “Paras, [no AND] Cush, AND Put” 38:5.. Ezekiel 27 substantiates the fact that these names were real nations whose identity could be traced far into the future—that is, toward the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s prophecy. This list, which portrays commercial activity in the 6th century BCE, includes five of the names on the war list in Ezekiel 38 (Paras, Put, Meshech, Tubal, and Beth Togarmah). In this context, these nations are quite real and identifiable. Furthermore, their fascination with trade and materialism seems unchanged in the Gog passage eleven chapters later. These recurring “types” do not preclude a prime fulfillment by an ultimate expression when the time comes. The same biblical interpretive principle is applicable to Gog and Magog. Even today,
the final expression of Gog and Magog is still future and anticipated “in the latter years” (38:8) and “in the last days” (38:16). Today, the nations occupying the territories of Ezekiel’s prophecy
(Paras, Cush, and Put) are, respectively, Iran,57 Sudan, and Libya—precisely the “peripheral” nations that commentators insisted could not be associated. [We also know what has happened in Libya, Syria, TODAY] On the other hand, in the early 1980s, after the Islamic/socialist revolutions in Libya (Ezekiel’s Put), Iran (Paras), and Sudan (the biblicalCush)—and the rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism that swept over all the Middle East—cooperation and coordination between the Islamic regimes in Libya, Iran, and Sudan was not at all problematic. Significantly, these three Arab nations are on record as being the most vociferously anti-Zionist of the Arab world. They also represent the most aggressive Islamic states in their training and export of terrorism worldwide. Iran (Ezekiel’s Paras/Persia) underwent an Islamic revolution at the end of the 1970s that reoriented the country against the West—whom Arabs call “the Crusaders”—and against Israel. Libya (Ezekiel’s Put) follows the radical Islamic agenda of its leader, Mu‛ammar Qadhafi, and represents a major player within Islamic extremism.83 These days, the Islamic government of (northern) Sudan (Ezekiel’s Cush) is waging a brutal war against the Christian and animist Sudanese in the southern part of the country, killing them by the tens and hundreds of thousands a year, selling prisoners into slavery, and compelling young girls to marry Muslim men, thereby forcing their conversion and genital mutilation. So we now see a remarkable and
intimate association of three radical Islamic states which are committed to one goal: the annihilation of Israel, and are the very countries Ezekiel said would ultimately strive mightily toward this purpose (cf. Psalm 83:1-8a). This picture conforms well with the tone of a number of other biblical prophecies that portray Israel standing alone against the onslaught of “all nations. [Including the USA] For example, Russia has recently entered into agreements
with Iran, Sudan, and Libya to supply military arms. These nations, now occupying the areas of Ezekiel’s nations of Paras, Cush, and Put, appear to represent the other three directions (east, south, and west, respectively) of Gog’s universal invasion.

Psalm3704 said:

Zechariah 12:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

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Psalm3704 said:

It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. ​

This event (Zechariah 12:9) doesn't happen till the second half of the tribulation after Jerusalem gets invaded and destroyed. In other words, we're not in the tribulation yet.
Israel has to win the war in order to get the 7 year peace covenant started for Daniel's 70th to commence. If the Muslims win, they will wipe Israel off the face of the earth. How can there be a post trib rapture when the elects are gather from heaven? People go up in a rapture, they don't come down. Than the prophecy of Daniel's 70th week will never be fulfilled.

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People who think they will go up are disillusioned.
Revelation 3:12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Mark 11:10 “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David!” “Hosanna in the highest heaven!”
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. No tell me, How about Ezekiel?











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Major1 said:

Matthew 24:36-44 declares, ..........
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father…Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come…So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.”

Acts 1:7, which states..............
"It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority."

You are welcome to add, and subtract all you want to.

However, considering what the Scriptures say...... let me be abundantly clear:
I do not believe that God has revealed to anyone when Jesus is coming back, and I see nothing in Scripture which indicates that God will ever reveal to anyone when Jesus is coming back.

That fact alone is way the Rapture is Bible doctrine. The Rapture can happen now at anytime. That makes it UNKNOWABLE!

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Guess again!
People who think they will go up are disillusioned.
Revelation 3:12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Mark 11:10 “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David!” “Hosanna in the highest heaven!”
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh

he-man said:

Guess again!
People who think they will go up are disillusioned.
Revelation 3:12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Mark 11:10 “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David!” “Hosanna in the highest heaven!”
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh

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I do not know what your point is but not one single verse you posted tells us to do calculations in order to know when Jesus will come again. NO, NOT ONE!

You just picked out verse you thought would help your agenda without any regard to the context in which they were given.

Shame on you!

Coming - #3952 Parousia (Vine's) -
Literal, a presence with, and being, denotes both an arrival and a consequent presence with. When used of the return of Christ, at the rapture of the church, it signifies, not merely His momentary 'coming' for His saints, but His presence with them from that moment until His revelation and manifestation to the world.

1 Corinthians 15:23......
"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (rapture).

1 Thessalonians 4:15 -17......
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2......
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him". That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

The movement of the believer at the Rapture is from earth to heaven in which the Lord comes to call His bride up to His Father's House (John 14:3).

he-man said:

Huh?
The Prophecy That Is Shaping History:
President Reagan’s view of Ezekiel’s prophecy was not limited, however, to shaping America’s relations with Russia; it also influenced his relationship with other nations. He believed, for example, that the Arab nations of the Middle East would participate in the End Time invasion of Israel. On this basis he also correctly predicted the fall of Ethiopia26 into the orbit of Communism.
Moreover, the same prophecy may have shaped the President’s relations with Libya—a nation he saw (in Ezekiel 38:5, under the name “Put”) allied with Ezekiel’s Rosh against Israel. In April, 1986, American and British aircraft attacked Benghazi and Tripoli (almost killing Libyan President Ghadafi) in retaliation for the deaths of several American military personnel killed in the bombing of a discotheque in Germany by Libyan terrorists. Following the Reagan era, the 1988 presidential candidacy of the well known evangelist and philanthropist, Pat Robertson, further typified the impact of Ezekiel’s prophecy on American foreign policy. In contrast to academic “conventional wisdom,” Robertson clearly warned of the danger of the Soviet (and, more recently, the Russian) threat, and spoke strongly of his unwavering support for Israel. Robertson remains convinced that Ezekiel 38-39 will be fulfilled by the invasion of Israel by Russia. [After taking Syria]
Apparently represented by the nations of “Paras, Cush and Put” (Ezekiel 38:5). J. Simons, Geographical and Topographical Texts of the Old Testament (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1959), ad loc. Ezekiel lists three nations, and the list follows the same pattern as “Rosh [no AND] Meshech AND Tubal,” above: “Paras, [no AND] Cush, AND Put” 38:5.. Ezekiel 27 substantiates the fact that these names were real nations whose identity could be traced far into the future—that is, toward the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s prophecy. This list, which portrays commercial activity in the 6th century BCE, includes five of the names on the war list in Ezekiel 38 (Paras, Put, Meshech, Tubal, and Beth Togarmah). In this context, these nations are quite real and identifiable. Furthermore, their fascination with trade and materialism seems unchanged in the Gog passage eleven chapters later. These recurring “types” do not preclude a prime fulfillment by an ultimate expression when the time comes. The same biblical interpretive principle is applicable to Gog and Magog. Even today,
the final expression of Gog and Magog is still future and anticipated “in the latter years” (38:8) and “in the last days” (38:16). Today, the nations occupying the territories of Ezekiel’s prophecy
(Paras, Cush, and Put) are, respectively, Iran,57 Sudan, and Libya—precisely the “peripheral” nations that commentators insisted could not be associated. [We also know what has happened in Libya, Syria, TODAY] On the other hand, in the early 1980s, after the Islamic/socialist revolutions in Libya (Ezekiel’s Put), Iran (Paras), and Sudan (the biblicalCush)—and the rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism that swept over all the Middle East—cooperation and coordination between the Islamic regimes in Libya, Iran, and Sudan was not at all problematic. Significantly, these three Arab nations are on record as being the most vociferously anti-Zionist of the Arab world. They also represent the most aggressive Islamic states in their training and export of terrorism worldwide. Iran (Ezekiel’s Paras/Persia) underwent an Islamic revolution at the end of the 1970s that reoriented the country against the West—whom Arabs call “the Crusaders”—and against Israel. Libya (Ezekiel’s Put) follows the radical Islamic agenda of its leader, Mu‛ammar Qadhafi, and represents a major player within Islamic extremism.83 These days, the Islamic government of (northern) Sudan (Ezekiel’s Cush) is waging a brutal war against the Christian and animist Sudanese in the southern part of the country, killing them by the tens and hundreds of thousands a year, selling prisoners into slavery, and compelling young girls to marry Muslim men, thereby forcing their conversion and genital mutilation. So we now see a remarkable and
intimate association of three radical Islamic states which are committed to one goal: the annihilation of Israel, and are the very countries Ezekiel said would ultimately strive mightily toward this purpose (cf. Psalm 83:1-8a). This picture conforms well with the tone of a number of other biblical prophecies that portray Israel standing alone against the onslaught of “all nations. [Including the USA] For example, Russia has recently entered into agreements
with Iran, Sudan, and Libya to supply military arms. These nations, now occupying the areas of Ezekiel’s nations of Paras, Cush, and Put, appear to represent the other three directions (east, south, and west, respectively) of Gog’s universal invasion.
People who think they will go up are disillusioned.
Revelation 3:12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Mark 11:10 “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David!” “Hosanna in the highest heaven!”
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. No tell me, How about Ezekiel?











.







.

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[/QUOTE]

A little advice.

First of all, when you copy and paste as much as you do, you really need to post the source for all of us to be able to see and investigate who is actually saying these words. As far as we know, what you are copy and pasting is coming from an atheist web site.

Second, do you look at what you paste? You run every thought together without any breaks and it just becomes unreadable and I doubt anyone is actually reading them.

But YOU do what ever you want to and fell free to ignore my advice.

keras said:

I used 45 scriptures in #48 and Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 both prove that time to God is quite different to us on earth.

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That's true.

They clearly state that 1 day in heaven is the same as 1000 earth years.

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2 Peter 3:8 also states that 1000 years in heaven is the same as one day on earth.
Both are true.
The teaching is that God is timeLESS. There is no such thing as "shortly" to God. God doesn't have near or far, long or short.
You are Binding God to time, in opposite of what scripture teaches about Him being outside, unbound by time.

The Hebrew parallelism of like an watch in the night, is just to emphasize the shortness of time to God.

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And what keeps you from applying that same view to the 1000 years/day?
Why do you hyper literalize that part of the passage but hyperbolize/spiritualize the other?
Where is the scriptural instruction to apply polar opposite meanings to different parts of the same passage.

Quite right; but the future is not what some like to think; an easy path to heaven, but a difficult time of trial and testing of our faith before the reward of eternity with God.

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Well, if i'm quite right about the Church being an entity that lasts throughout ALL ages, without end, how can there be an end to the Church age?