Major1 Post #1035
You see, all 3 of you have to MAKE those verses say what you need for them to say to make your false theology work for you. That is the classic operation of false teachers.
Did you not do just this when you said:
“God will shout and those who have died in Christ will have their bodies rise from the dust, then they will be united with their spirits. Them we Christians who are alive will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and then we all will be in heaven with the Trinity.
Where specifically in the text does it say “we will all be in heaven with the Trinity” ? I answered this point before you stated it. Again, the passage in Verses 14 an 15 says specifically Jesus will come and nowhere in the entire passage does it say He will return to heaven. That is not my interpretation or wishful thinking but the reality of what is written.
Major1 said:
The Bible actually says in 1 Thess. 4:17........"And so shall we ever be with the Lord".
I stand by my exegesis here, when Jesus comes to this earth He is here and we will be with Him, it is incumbent on you to show from the text we will return to heaven. Is not taking the phrase "And so shall we ever be with the Lord" and making it say “we all will be in heaven with the Trinity” adding to the word of God and adding opinion?
Major1 said:
Where do you believe that the Lord is?”
Right now He is in heaven and when he comes He will be here, I agree with you totally “this really is not brain surgery”. I challenge you to post any scripture that says He returns to heaven without doing what you accuse us of doing.
The same point stands for John 14:3 “that where I am there ye may be also” When Jesus said these words He was here and in verse 3 He said He will come again, when He comes again He will be here. If the passage said I will come again and take you back to where I came from your point would be valid, but the text does not say that, I believe it is an opinion that “makes” it say that we will go back to heaven with Him.
Major1 said:
I have always been taught to believe that the Lord has a home in heaven.
For the vast majority of my life I was taught that too, but I had to face the reality that I could not find that in the scriptures. It is a tough thing to change a lifelong belief and say to myself and others I was wrong. I believe it is clear from many passages when Jesus returns He will rule and reign here.
As I said in an earlier post I will challenge you on what the scriptures say and I will try my best not to appear to impugn your integrity, motives or intelligence.
Same here my friend. We disagree on this and even it seems on what the Scriptures say.
“God will shout and those who have died in Christ will have their bodies rise from the dust, then they will be united with their spirits. Then we Christians who are alive will be changed in the twinkling of an eye."
My understanding then is that we all will be in heaven with the Trinity. We will then return with Him 7 years later.
I agree completely that in the time to come, Jesus will rule and reign on the earth. Not because YOU say that but because that is what the Scriptures actually do say.
Psalm 2:6-9 —
David says the Messiah will reign over “the very ends of the earth” from Mount Zion in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 2:1-4 —
Isaiah says that “in the last days” the Messiah will reign from Mount Zion in Jerusalem and the entire world will experience peace.
Jeremiah 33:6-18 —
A day will come when the Lord will regather the dispersed of both Judah and Israel and will save a great remnant. At that time the Lord “will cause a rigthteous Branch of David to spring forth; and He shall execute justice and righteousness on the earth.”
Joel 3:14-17,21 —
Joel says that following the battle of Armageddon (verses 14-16), the Lord will dwell “in Zion, My holy mountain.” He repeats this in verse 21. And in verse 17 He identifies Zion as the city of Jerusalem.
Revelation 12:5 —
John sees a vision in which a sun clothed woman (Israel) gives birth to a male child (Jesus) “who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.”
Revelation 20:4,6 —
John says that after the return of Jesus to the earth, He will reign with His saints (“those to whom judgment has been given”) for a thousand years.
It is my understanding that the Bride of Christ is a city in which the Church will have its habitation and Christians who make up the church, will be able to go where they want to go. The new City and the Bride of Christ are one in the same as it seems they are synominous.
Rev. 21:2........
"Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
Rev. 21:9.......
"Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”
Now, if we remove the doctrinal teaching of "Implied Truth" from the Scriptures we have no Biblical exegesis of the Trinity, the Rapture, even the word Bible itself is not found in the Scriptures. There is actually no explanation given of God in the Scriptures.
Genesis 1:1....."In the beginning, GOD".
No explanation is given of His existence beyond "Implied Truth". He is just there, GOD. It is actually an assumption, is it not?
Then if we apply that to Jesus being on the earth and ruling literally, based on Revelation 20, when we then read Rev. 20 we find something very interesting.
There is no mention of Jesus being on earth in Revelation 20.
Implied Truth says that He is, but if we go by the strict letter of the word itself, it does not say so.
IMO Rev. 20:4 says...........
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then
I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received
his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
Actually I am not arguing with you on this as we seem to be agreeing because I believe that Jesus will be on the earth, and we will be with Him because IMO that is what the context of all the Scriptures say to me.
But as you can see from those who post here that many go out of their way to try and disprove something based on the "letter" of strict interpretation instead of "Implied Truth".
Having said that, then there are those who will argue that there is no need for an earthly throne for Jesus.
Doesn't the Bible say literally that Jesus’ throne is in heaven????
Isaiah 66:1........
“Thus says the Lord, ‘Heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me?’”
Dose't Acts 2:29-36 tell us that Jesus occupies David’s throne in heaven?????????
Looking at
Hebrews 12:2 again, what is it that I posted for you?
We find that Jesus “sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.”