Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

Jason0047 said:

Koresh practically memorized the New Testament and he had relations with children. George Sodini strongly believed in OSAS. Yet, he was a mass murderer and he committed suicide. He even had written a suicide note claiming he would be in heaven.


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You said that they rape and kill using scripture.

Now please get specific.

Real documentation, articles, books, newspaper, ect....

You must have it to say such a horrible thing. I want eye witness testimony. A lot of people left Koresh and survived the fire. If it happened, it's out there by a reliable source.

Maybe just start with each person with who they killed or raped, we can probably narrow this down quick with facts.

Let's just say the Holy Spirit would have to either be dealing with a demented mind or some other very serious thing.

Christ will not be mocked.

Jason0047 said:

Debating against that which is false, wrong, or sinful is good.
Do you believe in OSAS?


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God planned the salvation of ALL created MEN before the foundation of the earth. We servants who are testifying to the knowledge of Christ during this millennium reign of Christ tell God's chosen believers about His salvation plan for ALL MEN.

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

So all this arguing about who is saved or not is vanity. It's actually laughable.

stuart lawrence said:

I totally agree you can read and study the bible for the rest of your life and not learn truth.
The Pharisees of Jesus day knew the letter of the then scriptures inside out, but not the heart of the message

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2 Corinthians 3;
14: But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
15: Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds;
16: but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.
17: Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Revelation 3:
20: Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Romans 11:
3: "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have demolished thy altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."
4: But what is God's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al."
5: So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
6: But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7: What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
8: as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day."

2X4 said:

2 Corinthians 3;
14: But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
15: Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds;
16: but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.
17: Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Revelation 3:
20: Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Romans 11:
3: "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have demolished thy altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."
4: But what is God's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al."
5: So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
6: But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7: What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
8: as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day."

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I guess vanity would be believing you knew much more than others.
Great scriptures by the way

stuart lawrence said:

I guess vanity would be believing you knew much more than others.
Great scriptures by the way

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Since I experienced being used as a servant of God who testifies to the knowledge of Christ during this millennium reign of Christ, I know exactly what prophecies and scriptures to use and the words to add color to back up my experiences.

I understand all the prophecies very well because they all line up with all the stories I had to write about the Beast, day of the Lord, how we're created and how we observe images along with how we're going to experience life when we wake up on the New Earth without Satan and the Beast influencing all the images we observe and experience with our created senses. All the images and thoughts are stored as invisible waves that form into frequencies that our created senses detect within our individual MINDS.

John Hyperspace said:

You know people who rape, kill, and sell guns to children? That's really difficult to believe; I'm going to have to respond here that I don't believe you. Also, I did answer the question when he asked it again, basically with the same response as you. The answer is, no; a person that rapes and kills in not saved, and their actions make manifest that they have not passed from death to life: 1 John 3:14-15, 1 John 2:9-11

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And I'll have to respond, you didn't read the post carefully. Once you do so, and regather your thoughts, let me know and I'll be happy to respond further.

Matthew 19:16-22King James Version (KJV)

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Aren't the commandments, law? Did Jesus himself not say to keep the commandments/law? This is crystal clear, yet some insist we are not bound to do that.

Christ is very clear in the verse that in order to make it to heaven, one MUST keep the commandments. Very simple.

Kenny'sID said:

Matthew 19:16-22King James Version (KJV)

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Aren't the commandments, law? Did Jesus himself not say to keep the commandments/law? This is crystal clear, yet some insist we are not bound to do that.

Christ is very clear in the verse that in order to make it to heaven, one MUST keep the commandments. Very simple.

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So a person is declared righteous in Gods sight by observing the law?
If that is true Paul preached a false Gospel message

Aldebaran said:

But then he went on to basically say that it wasn't enough, since they guy said he has kept all those commandments (although Jesus only went on to name the ones that have to do with loving man. He left out the ones about loving God).

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Commandments are still commandments, and commandments are law...you've made no argument that changes that.

And yes it was enough to get to heaven, read the scripture again, and then I'll explain if need be.

stuart lawrence said:

So a person is declared righteous in Gods sight by observing the law?
If that is true Paul preached a false Gospel message

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Or maybe you understood Paul's words to mean something they do not. Did Paul say anything contrary to what Jesus said to the rich man?

What part of what Christ said there do you disagree with?

stuart lawrence said:

When will some people realise the letter kills but the Spirit gives life

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You know why the letter kills? It is because in the Old Testament, you could be killed for not obeying the Law.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my Commandments.
Again, do you love Jesus in this way?


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Aldebaran said:

I wasn't trying to make an arguement that commandments are law, and I wasn't attempting to change it either. You'll have to talk to Jesus about that. I simply was telling you what He said. If it was enough to get to heaven, why did Jesus say, "There is still one thing you still lack"?

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There is still one thing lacking "to be perfect". Christ spoke of 2 levels there, one, only to get to heaven, and the other to get to heaven and be perfect.

Kenny'sID said:

Or maybe you understood Paul's words to mean something they do not. Did Paul say anything contrary to what Jesus said to the rich man?

What part of what Christ said there do you disagree with?

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Which covenant was in operation when Christ walked this earth?
Which covenant was in existence when Paul wrote his epistles?

stuart lawrence said:

Paul doesn't view it the way you do:

Carry each others burdens( love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal 6:2.

You say we fulfill the law of Christ by looking to each and every literal command of Christ and striving to obey them. This is how we show we love Jesus.

You are on very dangerous ground indeed If you are not practising what you preach

Are you practising what you preach?

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What was I preaching that which I was not doing?
Apparently, you are trying to make a case out of thin air.
Also, as I said before, not all sins lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18).
Sins unto death are sins that lead to the second death (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (See Revelation 21:8).


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Jason0047 said:

You know why the letter kills? It is because in the Old Testament, you could be killed for not obeying the Law.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my Commandments.
Again, do you love Jesus in this way?


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The letter kills because:

The Ten Commandments are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them to entitle you to attain heaven.
Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them.
There is nothing in those commands that speak of mercy or forgiveness

stuart lawrence said:

Which covenant was in operation when Christ walked this earth?
Which covenant was in existence when Paul wrote his epistles?

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So you saying there are two or more gospels? One Jesus preached and one Paul preached? This is Mid Acts Dispensationalism and it is false. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing.


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stuart lawrence said:

Which covenant was in operation when Christ walked this earth?
Which covenant was in existence when Paul wrote his epistles?

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Is this going to be a one way Q&A? With me on the A side?